J* A330 Tow incident YMML.

[t_cas]

It sounds as though a tow-bar-less tug is no guarantee against damaging a nose gear assembly. Rental at the new owners hanger also rumoured to be very expensive though. Has anyone seen the damage?

[Keg]

Yep. There is a piccie floating around of the tug Jack knifed under the aeroplane.

Word from QF engineering is that the nose gear assembly will definitely need replacing and the mains may need replacing due to the torsional stresses put on the main gear during the Jack knife. That may be QF engineering scuttlebutt though so not sure if the reality.

Just last week I watched a J* tug quite literally hoon around taxiway Tango at the end of the Charlie pier and was very surprised at the speed they were going with an A320 attached. I thought it was the capability of the tug but it appears it may have been more a cultural issue. (There's that word again).

I'll see if I can link the picture somehow. Just need to tidy up a few things.

[Keg]

Hopefully this works.

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j419/Keg767/6dbd11f8869b6375b0bbddc4e7463c7c.jpg

[Boney]

Am I just too cynical?

Out of who's 2015 Financials will this one come out of?

Q or J?

[Big M]

C'mon Boney - of course the cost is allocated to Q, that's a no-brainer.

Keg, I agree RE the mains - pretty sure they'll be fine, a 25-30kt crosswind landing at 140kt is some real load. As per Bus AMM, NLG is toast.

It is what it is - stuff up of large proportion.

[Goddamnslacker]

Just ask Mike Lowery's brother, he will tell you its world best practice....it is always typical, Jetstar trash something and QF Engineering has to fix it and give it back to them....

[Ngineer]

Here's your A330 back, (aren't they handing them over???)

[TBM-Legend]

Insurance mate. Will they claim against those who did this?

[Brisbane Sinner]

Looks like one of those nasty sports injury clips you see where a weightlifter or long jumper break something that makes you shiver and grimace - just like the tug driver prolly did in this case.
Ouch.....

[Blueskymine]

Will you guys give it a rest!

**** happens in aviation. Singapore stuck a dugong into a bridge the other week, QF had a flood. That's life. The Jetstar guys didn't get on here crapping on about their pay freeze and the affect the capital intensive loss making international division has on the rest of the group.

It'll be fixed and returned to service and the QF boys can show how it's done when/if they get in back (if they've still got any destinations left to fly it to).

For now I feel sorry for the tug driver.

[Toruk Macto]

Interesting to know how can a 330 jackknife ? Has the tug skidded under ? What sort of speed is required to do this or has the driver just lost concentration and awareness of the angle he was at ?

[Ngineer]

Wonder what would happen if they tried to tow without a bypass pin in this instance (towbarless). I know the gear is obviously off centre in this pic, but it may have settled this way after the hydraulics were turned off.

I see no streamer, but there is not enough clarity to tell.

[blueloo]

As explained by engineer, - tug and plane going to fast for the corner. Plane continued in original direction, tug and nose gear spun around underneath jet and dragged. Nose gear plus various other bits and pieces stuffed.

The relatively new lift tug is pretty badly buggered too. - and they aren't cheap either.

[Brisbane Sinner]

Only in Melbourne....

[Dingowalkabout]

Agree Blueskymine, funny how it seems only Jetstar seem to have problems, just an easy target for the trolls...

[Capt Claret]

I thought it was the capability of the tug but it appears it may have been more a cultural issue.

The Effo and I commented the other day about the speed that a wide-body twin was being pushed back at MEL. I can't remember the type or airline but the observation resonates with Keg's thought.

[Stanwell]

Sounds like the tug driver had been inured with that great Aussie saying..
"A Quick Job's a Good Job!"

[NSEU]

Tony Lowery says that Airbusses are protected from issues such as water, heat and mechanical damage :}

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Saw video of this last night and the aircraft was being towed way in excess of a safe speed required to take the corner.

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

My understanding is that these towbarless tugs are approved at speeds up to about 30 kts.

Sure, this incident appears to be proof that it was towed around a corner too fast for the conditions at the time, but I too (as has Keg) have seen towed JQ A320's charging up and down Twy S at speeds that seem quite quick.

Then again, I've taxyied A320s at 30 kts in the past (within A320/A330 FCOM limits) and heard silly comments over the radio - clearly directed at me - that suggested it looked fast too (one pearler was "V1, Rotate" from an anonymous genius). Never had it in A330s, so it must be a 'relativity' thing; a small aircraft looks faster at same speed than a big 'un.

It'd be interesting to see if the engineering provider's SOPs include speed limits when towing around corners.

One other thing that just occurred to me was this; what if they were half way through a corner, and ATC gave them a late direction to stop or hold short of a nearby taxyway - the sudden shift to brakes might cause the whole shooting-match to go pear shaped (try it in a car one day...).

[Toruk Macto]

Break an A/C to follow ATC instructions . Maybe emergency stop if imminent collision but if your on top of the job you would be at a speed appropriate for situation . Lesson 101 in defensive driving .

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Engineering tow manuals stipulate max tow speeds. Don't have them in from of me but seem to recall 25k as a maximum but this is not during turns.


The Ramp guys do not have access to the Engineering manuals and have no idea about the restrictions and limitations. We have highlighted this to Qantas but the could give a flying ........


They just want the quick and nasty option and if something goes wrong, they then pull the procedures out so they can blame some poor bugger who was none the wiser.

[Madame Bandit]

Time and time again during the pushback the halfwits in the tug have been told to slow down. Ridiculous speeds during S bends with cabin crew standing up doing demo's.

Tech and Cabin Crew have complained to the inept clowns in "management" on a number of times, yet NOTHING was done except to make some derogatory statement to the reporters.

Hopefully someones head will roll over this for ignoring the warnings.

The sooner a broom is put through flight ops in that joint the better and safer for all. :ugh:

[porch monkey]

Only a matter of time, If what I've witnessed in the past is any indication. +1 for the speed....:sad:

[JustJoinedToSearch]

The limit on the taxiways for vehicles at ML is 40km/h. From my experience it seems that the lift JQ tugs rarely do less than that with a 320 attached.

[VicVector]

I am quite sure that 15kph is the speed limit for maintenance tows in MEL.

[Mstr Caution]

Plenty of people have witnessed JQ high speed tows thru turns.

It was only a matter of time.

JQ have left A330's parked on taxiway alpha in YMML, on the upslope at the Southern end.

The aircraft have been left their overnight unchocked. I would have thought an overnight brake pressure loss would have seen the A330 roll towards other parked aircraft.

MC

[JustJoinedToSearch]

15km/h on the aprons. 40km/h on the taxiways for vehicles alone. Limits for towing depend on the specific company. I've personally seen JQ doing 40 with a tow many times.

[onehitwonder]

The bloody potholes

[VR-HFX]

And the uniform matches...bet QF Intnl picks up the tab!

it says "do not operate heavy machinery for at least 12 hours" ...aww crap I'm screwed!! - Cheezburger (http://cheezburger.com/3197578752)

[Jack Ranga]

My mate who is a freight loader said the dood on the tug was going that fast the jet nearly got airborne, I'm gunna get my other mate who is a re-fueler at Tulla to confirm, standby :ok:

[onehitwonder]

Not the Townsville refueller I hope

[Jack Ranga]

Nup, The Tulla re-fueler. And he's an aerosexual as well :ok:

[vee1-rotate]

Was wondering what all the commotion was down on G that day. Seems it could have ended a lot worse for the tug driver. I guess the guy riding the brakes wasn't ready for that !

Good old orange 6 and 7. Cowboys.

[onehitwonder]

So J* has a cultural issue - was bound to happen

[LeeJoyce]

Guys I have personally driven in excess of 15,000km in these two tugs and have to tell you are all far from the truth

But don't let rumour and speculation get in the way of a good story


So... I heard the driver swerved to avoid a rabbit...





Joke for those who take everything literally.

[Jack Ranga]

I got my boys on it, I'll let you know :ok:

[nitpicker330]

Swerved while towing a 160 tonne Wide body Jet at speed!!! Deserved what he got...

[RAD_ALT_ALIVE]

Geez nitpicker...

If you're one of these cant-take-a-joke types, and sadly take everything so literally (coz by my reading, LeeJoyce was taking the pi55), then let me respond in kind; as the 'bus was being towed from the hangars, I doubt very much that it was a "...160 tonne widebody jet...".

Such unadulterated and fanciful near-hysterics!

It would've been about 125 tonne, if that!:ugh:

Now there's some nitpicking for you to get your teeth into.

LeeJoyce - I thought it was funny anyhow...:ok:

[LeeJoyce]

It was carrying 20t fuel

And was going Alpha Golf Sierra

[Stanwell]

LJ, I thought it was funny, too.


The 'cowboy mentality' of some tug drivers had been noted by other posters on this thread.


The towbarless tugs were introduced to increase speed and efficiency.
Management looks on with benign satisfaction. Then when, inevitably, a tow goes pear-shaped, there's much washing of hands and running for cover.


'Twas ever thus.

[Bumpfoh]

As Keg and others have noted the J* ramp drivers tow at an unhealthy speed in the towbar less tugs.
I personally have mentioned this to Qf safety and training people within engineering in passing and was casually told to not worry ourselves with other departments issues as we would only be accused of J* bashing!

Well, you reap what you sow J*:=

[Torqueman]

What is the latest with this bird?
Is it still parked up at the old JHAS/Little fort or has it moved?


Any news on how bad the damage really is?

[Flava Saver]

It's enroute HNL-MEL this afternoon as JQ2.

[600ft-lb]

It's enroute HNL-MEL this afternoon as JQ2.

After a substantial amount of work by QF engineers. Onya Jetstar!

[LeeJoyce]

I spoke with the guy putting the gear in

He told me it's an easy job, there were 4 guys working on it from Brisbane

Don't know how substantial that is


Apparently the old nose gear is still good too

Too bad the tug is still out of action for a while...