APP for Sunset and Sunrise times in flight?

[RunSick]

Hello, just wondering which app do you find the best for calculating in flight sunset and sunrise times. (One that takes into account Flight Levels).
Thanks!

[perantau]

Muslim Pilot for iOS, Prayer Inflight for Android. It's free, religious affiliation not a requirement for installation :D

[three eighty]

Or you can try this one Sunriseset. It takes altitude into consideration.

[Al Murdoch]

http://astro.ukho.gov.uk/nao/publicat/e_ukaa14.pdf

[dubbleyew eight]

sunrise and sunset relates to being able to see visually for a landing.
surely altitude is a useless consideration?

my little garmin gps has a screen for first light last light given the location in question.

in australia you can get the first light/last light information as part of a weather briefing from the Bureau of Metrology (via air services australia)

[donpizmeov]

Eight,
I think he needs it for other reasons. I don't think sun rays are needed for his landings. More a lack of them to let his SLF eat.

The don

[RunSick]

Thanks a lot for the answers guys!

And yes, I need to know so I don´t screw up the fasting people on the back.

Ramadan Kareem to all :ok:

[bigmountain]

No app but this is what we use. You will need to get the actual sunset and sunrise time over the location ( LIDO or Jepp tables) you are flying over and calculate as indicated below

Sunset and sunrise time differences from ground to air can be approximated by using 1 minute and 30 seconds per 5000ft. E.g. Sunrise on ground in Dubai is at 05:30. To approximate sunrise time at FL 350:  35000 / 5000 = 7  7 x 1.5 = 10.5 minutes. Approximate sunrise time at FL 350 is.05:30 MINUS 10.5 min = 05:19 Sunset on ground in Dubai is at 19:15. To approximate sunset time at FL 350:  35000 / 5000 = 7  7 x 1.5 = 10.5 minutes. Approximate sunset time at FL 350 is. 19:15 PLUS 10.5 min = 19:26


BM

[RunSick]

BM, just curious, why don´t you use the app?

[captainsmiffy]

Didnt, and still dont, have any app for this. Used the LIDO tables but a problem arises as you are doing 81/2 nm per minute as you are doing this. So the problem becomes WHERE will you be at sunset time? Took a good guess at the approximate wpt because it always goes dark around there when returning from europe.....LIDO corrected for longitude gave me an approximate sunset time and if that equates with your ETA at that waypoint then you have it cracked! If not, make a sensible decision to move back or forward a waypoint and try again....thanks for the altitude correction though, I guessed at about a 10 minute correction but nice to get it confirmed.

Having done all that the other night, my oppo, who was watching my mathematical shenanigans and also guessing somewhat wildly as to the time then produced his iphone app and pretty much confirmed what I had worked out!! Grrrrr!

Tried downloading an app today (doh, why didnt I think of that before?!!) and was unimpressed to find that I would need to upgrade to IOS 6 or something like that first, so gave up!! Far more satisfying to have worked it out for oneself....but there again, that sort of thing appeals to navigator types!!

[TwoTone-7]

Muslim pilot is very accurate.

Or you could be smart/utterly lazy like the EK pilots I heard few days ago asking Ankara control. The timing given to them was time for opening of fasting on the ground. :/

[TwoTone-7]

Or use Jepessen text book. Happy reading. :))

[Old King Coal]

Discounting atmospheric effects and / or the effects of physics & gravity on light particles / light rays.... it's neigh on impossible to be certain of when is sunrise & sunset when sitting aboard a platform that is moving at 600 mph and / or taking account of ones groundspeed & altitude therein. Thus it's all something of a guess and therein some minutes added as a buffer on either side of ones guesstimated sunrise / sunset is probably good enough... and surely any lengthening of the period of fasting will simply add to the piety experienced by the adherents of the 'Religion of Peace'.

[TwoTone-7]

Mohammedanism, what is that?!
Can I add an extra 20kts to my V speeds in future or perhaps less?! Or should there be some discipline in the maintaining of all things calculated?

[Old King Coal]

TwoTone-7: you're evidently something of a slave to precision and therein this should be an easy question for you: Q) How much does your aircraft actually weigh at any particular moment and please do explain how you came up with your answer ?

Wrt the other matter, and for your education & enlightenment, see: Mohammedan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan)

[TwoTone-7]

Old King Coal, whether you may think of me being a slave to precision is subject to your speculative presumption and at the same time it goes on to mention within the article you posted that the term mohammedanism is wrong and to an extent, insulting. So, where do you stand in your labelling of people as Mohammedists?

Unfortunately, all too often. People of your opinion confine themselves to the keyboard and no further afield. : )

[perantau]

Leave the old farts be, they're too set in their ways.

Muslim Pilot / Prayer Inflight takes position, ETA, altitude, track and ground speed as inputs. It's used by quite a few Muslim pilots. If it's good enough for them, should be good enough for the fasting folks at the back who professes Islam.

Don't know about Mohammedans though... :rolleyes:

[Airmann]

For those non-muslims who may want to use the app.

Fasting should start at Fajr (Fajer) (which is actually 90 minutes before sunrise, not at sunrise as some pilots believe)
Fasting should end at Maghrib (sunset)

Those are the times used in the App

[TwoTone-7]

Used the app again this morning with good result. Happy flying. :D

[Payscale]

Personally I use the big app to my left. Its called windows...

[Old King Coal]

Payscale - ditto that !

TwoTone-7 - Wrt "Unfortunately, all too often. People of your opinion confine themselves to the keyboard and no further afield."... is, to quote your own words, "subject to your speculative presumption" and I'd invite you to recall a quote from Seneca the Younger. :E

[Oceanic815Pilot]

I use SunFlight. It even gives me the Lat/Long of the sunset location as well as the time. Put a waypoint in the FMS and then use the abeam function to account for off great circle routing. It works well.

[halas]

I prefer the widows method. However the other day a particularly intense PUR of Moroccan descent "needed" to know when iftar was prior to departure to modify the service, but more importantly for his own count-down requirements.
When l asked what his forbears used prior to clocks, he said they used the windows, er, open tent flap method.

halas

[Emma Royds]

However the other day a particularly intense PUR of Moroccan descent "needed" to know when iftar was prior to departure to modify the service, but more importantly for his own count-down requirements.

Sounds far too intense. I would send him off to look at the IFE Day/Night map picture and get him to arrange his own 'count-down'! :p Should keep him busy for a minute or two at least!

Windows method works for me best too! :E

[perantau]

Looking out the window works for breaking fast. For starting the fast as mentioned by Airmann, it'll still be dark out. They'd need to know the time beforehand to prepare & consume the meal before the start time.

[Stone_cold]

Why is it that only in the Arab world are these requests made? Muslims all over the rest of the world travel and seem to find a way to manage their fasting needs and without imposing said fasting requirements on non-muslims . I am sure that they don't make these demands on non - Middle East Carriers . Outside of the middle east ,as an "infidel" , I am not even aware of when Ramadan starts / ends and I don't care to . I also eat whatever ,whenever and wherever I want , in full view of fasting Muslims with no problems .

Let them look out the window or find some other way of complying with their religion . What happens if you provide them with the incorrect info ? Big no - no , correct?

[aeropix]

Let me give a shout out to SUNFLIGHT (NOT to be confused with similarly named SunInFlight) which is written BY a Pilot, FOR Pilots.

Unlike the other APPS mentioned (and I have tried many of them) this APP allows you to input the departure airport, destination, flight times and altitude and VOILA - you get the sunrise, sunset and Prayer times accurate to within a minute or two, and it even shows WHERE the sun will set such that you can set a FIX in the FMC using LAT / Long or it will even display a map of the sunset location on the iPhone for you.

The other apps mentioned all require Lat/Long inputs while SUNFLIGHT already has a worldwide airport database, which makes it great for figuring this out before you fly.

I've been using this APP for 3 years, and been thoroughly impressed with it. The only routes where it ever gets confused is over the pole, but all other trips it's accuracy has been amazing.

itunes dot apple dot com/us/app/sunflight/id447540750?mt=8

[bigmountain]

BM, just curious, why don´t you use the app?

I don't have an App for it as I don't have an Android or an Iphone . +Company rules forbid PED in flight . So i suppose, just the mental math will have to do for some .

BM

[halas]

PED's are not forbidden in flight. Just the flight deck.

halas

[RemoveB4Flght]

My first year, first ramadan, I was asked about sunset by a cabin crew. I chuckled as the view out the right side was nothing but the last glimpse of the setting sun spread across the clouds. I said I assumed it would be about now, and apparently the passenger who had asked began voraciously consuming his meal. A fellow faster approached him contesting my judgement of the sunset and convinced him he had fouled up. I was treated to a tongue lashing on landing on how I had ruined his religious experience and surely secured his spot in the bitter depths of hell. After that my standard response was "I'm sorry, I don't wish to get involved in the religious affairs of others."

I lightened up a bit over the years and a quick tapping of the sunflight app and I include the timings in my crew briefing.

It amazed me that someone who was deeply concerned about this wouldn't have done a bit a research beforehand. Perhaps even a bit of planning by bringing some snacks so as not to stand up and go to the galley on short final looking for a meal (true story) or passing out and causing a medical diversion (also true).

Last thought.. surely it wouldn't be too difficult to program the equation into the IFE and provide the information to everyone who needs it that way?

[Stone_cold]

Simple . The company would then be responsible for any screw ups .. This should make you wonder why they (all 3 ME majors) publish nothing . Why do you want to get involved? At the end of the day , it is quite simple ..there is no actual time in flight , its all approximations . When they can't see the sun ..eat!! As other's have said ..use the " window" app.

Every year this comes up for discussion ...It's their religion , they should find a way to manage it . Don't expect the infidels to know !

[Swansafa]

I couldn't give a flog. If they call to ask for instructions on when to eat, I hang up. Too busy.

If I see them in the cabin and they ask, I say the sun's already up.

If they're waiting to eat, the sun's "still up for another hour or so", just in case.

I certainly won't be loading an app onto my phone which tries to explain any of that filthy garbage.