Australian Flying Jobs?

[Formercrjdriver]

Hey all


I am currently flying regional jets in the US and looking to fulfill my dream of living and flying in Australia. Can anyone offer any advice? I know Rex had a hiring event in Houston a year or so ago to recruit US pilots, but unfortunately I wasn't qualified at the time. It sounded like they were willing to sponsor you and help with all the paperwork and transitioning the license, etc. Is anyone doing that right now? Hopefully this doesn't spark some kind of war on here. I'm not looking to take Australian pilots' jobs, I know Qantas seems to be hurting. But surely somebody must be hiring? Airlines in the US, Asia, and the Middle East seem to be spooling up hiring really quickly. Is anything happening down under? I really appreciate any advice!

[V1rhot8]

Very interesting. Do you happen to have citizenship or the ability to get permanent resident status would be the first question?

Next is how desperately do you want to commit to moving. This is assuming you do not have 500 hours of Saab time. One suggestion I have is that you could make yourself eligible for Rex to sponsor you (for citizenship) by getting at least 500 hours PIC in the Saab...so in the USA that would mean go work for Silver Airways until you have the 500 hours command specified on their website. The reasoning for saying how desperately is I see you are driving an RJ. You could quit your current job, get hired at Silver, potentially as a direct entry captain (although it seems they have stopped that scheme). Otherwise you would have to fly as an FO on the Saab until an upgrade comes.
Another option is to find yourself an Aussie Sheila to get citizenship that way.

Yes QANTAS is hurting, and as you say there are other outfits hiring. As you pointed out Asia and the Middle East are where the real opportunities are. Some QF pilots went to AirJapan, and there are many Aussies working for CX.

In short, you can definitely make the dream come true, it is just what is living in a certain location worth to you (giving up seniority at your current RJ outfit/ income because you need 500 command in a Saab). Silver Airways first year pay on the 1900 is $21/hr or if you get the Saab it is $25/hr.

[Formercrjdriver]

I don't have citizenship down there, which is why that Rex thing was looking so good- it looked like they would sponsor people for their visas. I don't have any Saab time, and while I'm 100% committed and devoted to moving and flying down there, it's not feasible for me to quit my current job to fly for Silver in the hope that Rex might hire me.....so I guess that makes me 99% committed to moving down there. I guess my question is, are there any places down there that have/had a scheme similar to Rex? I don't know how important the Saab time is to coming over there...I meet the total time requirement, and I'd be willing to come over on the right seat (I think they were interviewing in Houston for direct entry captains).

[traveler1982]

Short answer mate is no (well not that I know of). There are a tone of guys down here with the right to live and work who can't get on the right seat of a decent machine. Command time on type would be your only way to get sponsored as far as I know.

[V1rhot8]

FormerCRJdriver, I sent you a couple PMs

[mattyj]

There are a few N registered business jets flying US part 91 based around Australasia. The challenger/global series might even be a common rating with a CRJ if that's what you fly. Why don't you go through the FAA register of types and see if any of them are listed to an Australian address if that's how it works?

[nitpicker330]

We have Australian Pilots out of work here and I don't think we have a need to recruit from overseas yet.........

Australia thanks you for your interest and wishes you all the best for your future career in the USA.

[neville_nobody]

Given the amount of hiring the majors in the USA are going to do over the next 5 years, why aren't you applying there?

You are always going to make more (net) money in a USA major than you ever will in Australia.

A captain's salary at REX based in Sydney and all that entails would hardly pay the bills, unless to wanted to drive 1.5 hours a day to work.

[Formercrjdriver]

I didn't know very much about Rex's pay scale/work rules, they were just the only ones that I saw that were recruiting here. Majors are slowly ramping up hiring here, but the industry has been so stagnant there are thousands of guys with thousands and thousands of PIC hours that are all going to get hired first. The short answer basically is my dream has always been to live and fly in Australia, I like it a lot better down there. In terms of money, I'm not sure about that. Regional first officers here start off at roughly $25,000/year and I'd say regional captain pay usually tops out at say $85,000/year. The cost of living in Australia, for argument's sake, is about twice as expensive as it is here. FOs there, from my understanding, make a lot more than A$50,000.

[FLGOFF]

You are always going to make more (net) money in a USA major than you ever will in Australia.

Australian majors pay a lot better than US ones, there's no doubt about that. I know you've got the higher taxes and costs of living in Australia, but I'm still doubtful whether you are always going to be better off in the US.

With that being said, I wouldn't be too excited about moving to fly in Australia though, it's not like the Australian aviation industry is exactly booming.

[pull-up-terrain]

but I'm still doubtful whether you are always going to be better off in the US..

If you compare the house price of Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane (within 1 hour drive of the airport), to the house price in the USA and the cost to by a car in the USA, financially, working for a major airline in the USA would win hands down.

I'm lucky as I don't have to worry about paying off my home loan, but it's a worry when an old house full of asbestos a hour's drive south of Sydney Airport is 6 times a Qantas/Virgin 737 FO yearly income.

[aintsaying]

Formercrjdriver
I moved to Australia from Canada 3yrs ago. I'm ready to move away. Aviation has gone down hill very badly in the last 12 months. But its the same world wide.
The basic cost of living in Australia is about 10% more than Canada/USA. Thats for electricity, water, food, Utility rates.
All other items are up to 10 times the price compared to Canada/USA. Thats for clothes, cars, tools, furnature, interest rates, bank fees, etc.
The work place rules are better than Canada/USA, and worker protections are better here. The safety side of the work place is much herder to adjust to, almost grinding work to a halt, but not quite yet.
Australia today is not the Australia I lived in back in the 1990's.
You and I are not the same, so that means there is a good chance that you will like it here. I suggest you take a 12 month leave of absence and come down here for a scout around.

aintsaying

[Formercrjdriver]

I've been down there a number of times, and love it there. I would love nothing more than to run around there for 12 months, just need to find someone to hire/sponsor me. Or does anyone know a cute, single Australian girl I can marry? That seems like my best bet at this point haha. It's too bad that things are slowing down there in terms of hiring, hopefully it's just temporary and will pick back up.

[Air Ace]

As my Dad used to say about Yanks in Australia during the war: "Over paid, over sexed and over here!"

:E

[tail wheel]

Commercial Pilot is not currently in the Australian Skilled Occupations List (http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/skilled-occupations-lists/sol.aspx). This means Australia does not have a skills shortage in commercial pilots and that occupation will not assist you to obtain any Australian resident working Visa.

In effect, the Australian Government considers there are enough Australian Commercial Pilots living in Australia to fill current requirements.

An Australian airline may make application to sponsor overseas pilots in a specific category/with specific qualifications and experience (e.g. for the introduction of a new aircraft type etc) if it could demonstrate an immediate skills shortage in that category of commercial pilot and it had taken steps to train Australian pilots to fill that requirement in the longer term.

There is certainly no guarantee the Dept of Immigration and Border Protection would approve the Sponsorship and Visa application.

The fact that an aircraft normally domicile in Australia has US (or another country) registration would not be justification for employing overseas pilots. Immigration would probably point out to the operator that he has two options to address his pilot needs, register the aircraft in Australia or send Australian pilots overseas to obtain their foreign licenses.

Unless a US citizen commercial pilot holds alternate qualifications, skills and experience in a skilled occupation in demand and is prepared to work in that alternate employment on arrival in Australia, the only option open to you would be to join 565,000 other US citizens that visited Australia last year as tourists for non working stays up to three months.

Working Holiday Visas are also available to US citizens but there are a number of restrictions, including age, and employment duration. You would not get commercial flying work in Australia on a Working Holiday Visa.

Australia's immigration laws are very similar to and generally a reciprocal of the US immigration laws.

The short answer, unless Australia buys the Space Shuttle, a US commercial pilot has very little chance of obtaining an Australian employer sponsorship and a work and residency Visa based upon his occupation.

You could think about marrying an Australian, however to be granted a Spouse Visa you must demonstrate a relatively long term committed relationship. A quick turn through a Las Vegas wedding chapel simply won't cut the mustard.

[mattyj]

plenty of cute Cabramatta girls looking for a husband! Multi colour hairstyles, chew gum 24/7 and have mostly tasteful tattoos.

Problem is, you're marrying into the family..still..within a year or 2 you'll have 4 or 5 of your own!

[Kenny]

My advice, don't do it.

I left a job in the US, in the left seat of the RJ at one of the better regionals (in terms of pay), for a right hand seat in a 737 and I regret it, big time. Financially, I'm worse off and my quality of life isn't as good as it was in the US. Do not make the mistake of simply looking at pay scales and doing a $ for $ comparison. I earn around $40k more than friends of mine on 2nd year pay at United but have less in my pocket at the end of the month after taxes and paying bills.

Professionally, the flying here is as boring as batsh!t and I won't even go into the pedantic and anal way we approach everything involved in moving an aircraft from point A to point B.

Living here is a very different animal compared to coming for a few weeks, on vacation. The cost of living is far higher than any of the other 3 continents I've lived on and it's only getting worse.

As the man from "The great white north" said, you may approach things differently but every one of our friends from the UK and the US is actively trying to leave.

[nitpicker330]

Well Kenny don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out fella.....:mad:

[puckhead]

I fully understand FormerCRJDriver and wanting to live and work in Australia. My wife and I were married in OZ (Woy Woy) and have been there about 6 times each. It is our dream to live and work there, but that unfortunantly is easier said than done. Anyway I don't have much to contribute other than there are others out there with your same dream Former. Good luck!

PS...Everything is WAY more than the US down there...EVERTHING! Still the best place on the planet in my opinion.

[Kenny]

Nitpicker,

Don't worry I won't. I have options outside of Australia, unlike most and I plan to make full use of them. But, it's a bit sad when a very proud Australian would rather live elsewhere.

[StudentInDebt]

Commercial Pilot is not currently in the Australian Skilled Occupations List. This means Australia does not have a skills shortage in commercial pilots and that occupation will not assist you to obtain any Australian resident working Visa.

In effect, the Australian Government considers there are enough Australian Commercial Pilots living in Australia to fill current requirements.However, individual states within Australia are free to set their own Skilled Migration Occupation Lists and there is at least one that currently has Aeroplane Pilot as an occupation on their SMOL. A suitably qualified individual is able to apply to that state for nomination for a Skilled Nominated or Skilled Regional visa which, if their application was successful, would give them Australian permanent residency (provisional I believe in the case of the regional visa). If the OP is really interested in moving to Australia to continue his/her career then this would be the best route to take.

Before embarking on this route I would suggest investigating whether their experience would likely result in the type of job they want, or any job. Not sure what the US job market is looking for anymore but even entry-level regional airline jobs in Australia have relatively high requirements (e.g. multi-engine P1 time).

[thorn bird]

"I won't even go into the pedantic and anal way we approach everything involved in moving an aircraft from point A to point B."

Oh man did you hit that nail on the head!!

The cost of which is why the Aviation Industry is spiraling down the gurgler.
Safety levels are diminishing and the industries ability to remain viable becomes increasingly problematic, as the rule of the regulator runs rampant.

You see in Australia we have discarded the "Rule of Law" and replaced it with the "Rule by regulation".

Australia is a land of "rules" there's a rule for everything.

Probably why our cost of living is through the roof as well.

[Formercrjdriver]

Student, do you mind me asking where I can find that information? I've been all over the department of immigration website, and the only thing I found backs up what the other guy said about it not being a nationally required skill. Where can I find it broken down by state?

[pilotchute]

I think you will find that Western Australia is the only state with aircraft pilot on that list. Do a search for WA government skills shortage list. F.

[hillbillybob]

I wonder if anyone in the west oz government has looked in broome? Plenty up there looking for work :ugh:

[MartinCh]

yeah,

plenty bartenders, waiters and shuttle drivers in Broome waiting/looking for some SEP jobs. Actually, after seeing the S92 doing some IFR training half year ago, mentioning aviation to the holiday villas/hotel shuttle bus concierge, he mentioned this fact himself.
Not exactly TP or jet airliner jobs right away. I do feel for Aussies 'going traditional route' and being blocked off some jobs higher up by silly insurance/hiring requirements. But hey, that's happening in Europe, too. Even worse. So everything's relative.

As for the pilot job, well, the remark about the SOL list NOT having pilot is right. What the poster failed to mention (in expected, get the F outta here, leave our jobs for us), or by sheer coincidence, is that there's Consolidated SOL, CSOL. Just like WA has its SMOL. Actually, from checking some state specific lists, I've seen quite a difference between, say Queensland, WA or Victoria. Obviously, Victoria and Melbourne doesn't need the larger number of jobs (and migrants) attracted by SMOL.
CSOL has lot more

ANZSCO code 231111
Consolidated Sponsored Occupations List (http://www.immi.gov.au/Work/Pages/skilled-occupations-lists/csol.aspx)

Subclas 186 Employer Nomination Scheme (ENS) can use CSOL job with 'approved employer' etc. That does NOT have to be regional Australia.

Subclass 187 - Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (RSMS) as name says, regional Australia employer, higher priority processing (esp useful for people applying offshore)

Then there's subclass 190 - state/territory sponsored/nominated, which requires 2yr commitment, not employer specific, but most parts of Oz wouldn't have 'aeroplane pilot' in SMOL to give extra points for someone's EOI and visa application. Just FYI.

ALL ABOVE are PERMANENT residence visa - with min time with company as caveat - understandably.

The visa the airline would most likely do, would be subclass 457. The eligibility and processing criteria got stricter, but now you cannot be charged or have the costs of paperwork/application/admin recovered from you (maybe with tad smaller hourly pay, ehrm, but not direct). Again, after couple years, doable to get PR/'Aussie green card', well, more like ocre/orange dust card...

So yeah. Doable. Time/paperwork consuming if hired. Worth it? Hm.
Annoying/upsetting some local pilots? Sure.
As some mentioned, the real disposable income after high property cost (driven up by mining boom and cascading elsewhere, plus speculating/buy to let, lots of Asians buying up off the plan properties as investment spiralling it further up), tax, labour/services, car servicing labour rates doubled in half decade (Yeah!), food.

If you want to relocate/settle in Oz, play by the rules, then others cannot do anything about it. Oh, complain to their union. Unions in some sectors are ridiculous (too much power, even silly stuff), customer service quality levels nowhere near USA.

Most visa subclasses need positive skills assessment and that's some expenses you have to bear. CASA or VETASSESS (for other specific aviation occupations) expect some years of experience etc. I noticed the rates went up past year or two by lot more than inflation rate, too. Surprise surprise.

Hope it helps to get an idea.
I'm returning to Oz around November, then finally sort my heli conversion stuff, eventually do airplane commercial in US and more, then convert in Oz later on. I've slightly used 417 visa, now have granted 476 visa (unrestricted 18mth, 'engineering grad only') and later will sort 189/190 or others as needed. Voila. Simples. Well, not, nor cheap, but hey, got tired of UK weather, no green card for US (yet), Canada too cold in winter for my liking and meant to migrate to Oz since long before I even touched aviation for real.

Aussies telling foreigners to :mad: off with various tone levels, should get their aviation and industries sorted and if some airline wants job ready Dash 8 or Saab PICs with PIC time on type, cutting costs, legally so, then so it is. You take up the opportunity. Or you use other qualifications/experience to sort 189 visa etc yourself and then work in aviation, like some have done and will do. I never said the bigger picture is all fair and straightforward, but so isn't life and following rules/regulations and minding own interests is expected.

Besides, talking about 'finding Sheila'. As per the Australian laws, one can file for family stream migration visa after de facto relationship/documented and evidenced cohabitation etc, after 12 months and then it's maybe 4-6 months processing and all one needs for the 'orange card':p to arrive, is another year of genuine relationship or so. Well, could have changed slightly since I checked. One of my pilot friends has done so, European, but it was headache for him. So essentially no marriage needed, but definitely not simple 'green card marriage' scenario. If you meet and live with Australian citizen in USA, you could 'pave the way', so to speak.

FCRJD, if you make it to Oz and in Brisbane or I happen to be near, you owe me a beer. :cool: 10-15 bucks a pint in bar, btw

[Formercrjdriver]

Thanks for the info. That's not much more expensive than any major city here. I'm a cocktail guy myself.