Ex-Virgin?

[scroggs]

Looks like I am to be an ex-Virgin from the beginning of next month. Forgive me if my attention isn't focussed on Wannabe's for a while.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Crikey.

May I be the first here to express my sincere condolences. Its a horrible thing to happen.

If there is anything I can do then please ask.

I am confident that something will turn up in the long run.

WWW

[Mooney]

Bad news Scroggs- I hope things work out for you.

[VFE]

**** mate. Very sorry to hear that. I hope something turns up for you quick. I thought yesterday when the news was announced "I hope Scroggs from PPRuNe will be OK".

Take care pal,

VFE.

[Wedge]

Very sorry to hear that Scroggs. Bloody hell this is bad. Who would have imagined eight days ago the state the pilot market would be in now. The question is not when is recruitment going to start again but when are the lay offs going to stop. You're not going to be the only one mate.

Stay positive - best of luck.

[Shanks]

Really sorry to hear that Scroggs. I've been a lurker on the forum for quite a while but have only recently started posting. I've always thought that you and WWW deserve a great deal of gratitude and respect for helping us Wannabes after having already "achieved the dream". It would have been very easy to have forgotten how hard it was starting out, and I do believe that good deeds don't go unrewarded.

Also good luck to all those who were about to start on a sponsored course, I can't begin imagine how gutting it must feel to have come so close.

[Superpilot]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!!!!

[Monkey See Monkey Do]

Oh &*~#, sorry to hear that.

I have been accustomed to reading your posts, you've done a lot for me and I'm sure lots of others.

Thanks for all your help, Scroggs. You are v appreciated.
Monkey See Monkey Do

[Speedbird20]

Wow! Sorry to hear that, best of luck for the future Scroggs.

[Mister Geezer]

Scroggs

Terrible news, My thoughts are with you. I hope you can get things resolved quickly.

After listening to Branson on TV this morning saying that the 'fuel guzzlers' of the fleet will go (I presume referring to the classics) then I feared that you along with your collegues on the Classic will be hit hard.

Sadly my guess is true. :(

All the very best.

MG

[ 18 September 2001: Message edited by: Mister Geezer ]

[G SXTY]

Christ Scroggs, I'm so so sorry.

After all your support and advice for us wannabes, and all your comments about the outlook for the industry, its bitterly ironic that you're one of the first to lose his job.

Wishing you the very best of luck.

[Gazeem]

Sorry to hear the bad news Scroggs,

I hope things turn out okay - shortly,

is there any hope of a reprieve with help from the Government?

Best of luck to you all

Gaz

[foghorn]

Scroggs,

Just when I was reading the doom and gloom postings and quietly thinking to myself 'don't panic', this comes along. I now feel like Corporal Jones in Dad's Army.

This really is terrible news that has driven home to me the severity of the problems facing the airline industry. With people like yourself losing your job I, as a 240hr new CPL feel as if it is contemptuous of me to apply for airline jobs.

All the best for the future in this difficult times, mate.

foggy.

[Flying Kiwi]

Deepest sympathies Scroggs.

Feeling bad myself about the postponement of my training, but at least I still have a job (crap though it is). Puts my situation in perspective. I hope you find something else soon.

Regards,

FK

[ 18 September 2001: Message edited by: Flying Kiwi ]

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Scroggs,
I have only just read the your posting.I am so sorry.I hope this is short lived and you get something quickly.

Take care DWW

[HomerSimpson]

Scroggs,

Sorry to hear of your bad news. I hope you find something soon.

Best Regards,
Homer

[BIG BLACK RAT]

Sorry mate....

[flite idol]

Scroggs if they were to make redundancies in order of reverse seniority would you be on the street.? If as suggested they let pilots go according to type rather than length of service, well I better not print what I think about that. In a crisis we all make sacrifices but there has to be justice and equity. Good luck pal I hpoe it works out for you and for all of us, sooner rather than later. What goes around comes around and your good deeds here don`t go unappreciated.

[Sagey]

Extremely sorry to read your post Scroggs. Will keep my fingers crossed that the question mark comes into play and the ex is removed.

Don't worry about us wannabes, we are all grateful for your pearls of wisdom, at the moment us wannabes are all cannotbes until this whole mess is sorted out. If the worst does happen, I hope that you find an airline to work for quickly, and continue to give us an insight into your career and your advice.

Sagey

[Quentin Wellinup]

Bloody sorry to hear that Scroggs.

Thanks for all your input and advice in the past - I'm sure I speak for all Wannabes in conveying my appreciation, and hope that everything works out for you.

It's an indication of the very precarious position planet earth is in at the moment.

Let's all hope that in a couple of months/years we can all look back and breath a collective sigh of relief. The worst case scenario defies the imagination.

[scroggs]

Thanks for all your support, peeps, it is very much appreciated. As flite idol intimates, there is a suggestion that Virgin will apply type rather than seniority criteria to the selection of candidates for redundancy, which is why I believe I'm on my way out.
If those of you who are BALPA members have any opinions on the rights or wrongs of this, please let BALPA know today. I'm trying to raise awareness of this issue on Rumours, Virgin's own forum, and the Virgin crew website. I've also e-mailed Chris Darke, the secretary of BALPA, to let him know what I think of the idea of non-seniority based redundancy.
While my actions may very well affect others junior to me, and for that I'm sorry, I believe that to abandon seniority will undermine the security of every airline pilot in UK. That is why I believe that anyone who has an interest in a just and reasonable employment policy should let BALPA know their opinions.
Sorry to use Wannabe's for a bit of politicking, but this subject should be very important to any of you who want to join the airline industry.

[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: Scroggs ]

[VTOL]

Scroggs,
really sorry to hear your news. I hope you find something soon and you can post some good news.

All the best,
VTOL

[ 19 September 2001: Message edited by: VTOL ]

[JT8]

Scroggs,

Im so sorry to hear of this news, for yourself and your colleagues.

I hope things work out.

Best regards,
JT8

[NigelS]

Scroggs
Sorry to hear that, I hope you're wrong and they're going to keep you on..
I don't really understand the seniority thing, I'm just another wannabe. I do admire you though and have found you reliable and honest. Your postings have helped me and a very large number of people like me.
I wish you the very best of luck. You don't deserve this.
Best wishes and kind regards

Nigel

[no sponsor]

Unfortunately, and I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but people are not made redundant, their posts are.

Therefore Virgin will argue that the Classic fleet is being retired, so therefore, the posts required to man the fleet are no longer required.

[Sagey]

no sponsor you are forgetting that there is a pilot's union that actively represents speaks for its members.

Most companies actually run a last in, first out policy when it comes to reduncancies, which is by all means the fairest system.

However, it appears that Virgin are making redundant older fleet pilots, regardless of their seniority. They are still all pilots, just with a different type rating than the ones keeping their jobs. This should not be a hindrance, THEY ARE ALL PILOTS. So Virgin are making Pilots redundant, and therefore should operate a fair system.

Not sure I am making myself clear, I am just a wannabe like most on this forum. What I am trying to say is everyone that flies for Virgin regardless of type is a pilot. And therefore pilots are being made redundant and to select a type is unjust and unlawful in this country. (As BA found to its cost)

Scroggs have I got it totally wrong, or is that the jist of the argument?.

Sagey

[scroggs]

There is a legal requirement to honour seniority when deciding lay-offs, unless an airline can prove to BALPA that there is no reasonable alternative. Pilots are deployed to aircraft types by the airline, not by individual choice. There is no policy of placing older pilots on older aircraft or anything like that, it's simply a matter of where the vacancies are. Fleet changes happen all the time within the airline as requirements change, but all changes, promotions, benefits, leave etc are determined by seniority. So should termination be, but we'll see on Friday if that is to be the case.

[MaxDrift]

Scroggs
Gutted to hear your news mate. I hope things work out for you quickly.

Balders

[clear prop!!!]

Sorry to hear your news. This hopefully can only be short term for you.

All the very best.

CP

[Pilot Pete]

Just read your post and would like to pass on my best wishes in the hope that things turn out ok.

Although I have had no indication of anything like this from my employer I was only thinking yesterday how vulnerable I feel being one of the 'last in'. The only positive thought I could see is that if jobs are still going somewhere in the industry it is better to be out early and looking rather than being in a company who 'put off the inevitable' and then you end up out after everyone else.

Good luck mate

PP

[scroggs]

Once again, thank you for all your good wishes. In less than 24 hours I, and many others, will know some of what the future holds.
In view of the fact that jobs are going to be difficult to come by, I reckon I will have a good deal of spare time in the near future. Therefore, I hope you will forgive me if I do a bit of personal advertising.....
As many will know, I've been a QFI and an interviewer in the RAF and I've kept a close eye on the civilian employment world for the last few years. I believe I have a good grasp of the industry and its requirements.
I am available(!) for any one of you to pick my brains, run CVs by and even give you practice interviews. This can't be free; I have now to cover my expenses. But if I can help anyone in this way, please e-mail me. I'm not trying to turn this into a business' just to offer time that I think I might now have somewhat more of than in the past. But I don't intend to be unemployed for long, so don't waste time!
Anyway, all the best to all of you. Thank you once again for your support.

[TheNavigator]

Scroggs,

I am really sorry to hear these news. I just hope that this does not last much.

All the best for you!

TheNavigator

[Sensible]

Scroggs, I offer you my every good wish for Friday. I have always worked on not counting chickens before they hatch and not burying them until they die!! My personal experience is that often good comes out of apparent disaster. I don't personally relish the thought of R.B. as my guvnor anyway from what I've heard!

[Flying Kiwi]

Will be most keen to take you up your generous offer Scroggs, as I'm sure will plenty of others. Look forward to seeing you at the seminars and Gatbash for a quiet one (on me).

Chin up big fella.

FK

[Captain Crazy]

:eek: Just read the post. I'm really sorry to hear it Scroggs. You've done so much for the Wannabees (now on a BA sponsorship thanks to a lot of your help). Hope things turn out and good luck with your seminars. Can't think of a better person for the job!

[purple haze]

scroggs

sorry to hear the news mate,

but i strongly believe that someone who does so much good for others will be rewarded in the end, i am absolutely sure of that.

looking forward to hearing something good from you soon.


ph

[40 yearflyer]

Scroggs, sorry to hear your not so good news. I've been through all this and being- oops macfee telling me about nimda - to resume - and being made redundant turned out to be the best career move I've ever made and I mean it - so perhaps you will benefit as I did.
Is it true you never met up with your Instructor at Linton i.e. you never wore your glasses and therefore could not read the BIG numbers on the many JPs - so you were never in the same aircraft !
Night Flying must have been difficult ....
Scroggs - 'have you done the externals?' Yes Sir - 'Well did you use a torch ?
'No Sir'
'Well get out of the Bowser then' ! ! :cool:

[The Greener Grass]

Sympathy from myself as well Scroggs. This really is a very sad situation.
I hope "Good will prevail" for you also in the not too distant futute.

[kunundrum]

Sorry to hear that Scroggs, I am also an ex-virgin! Word of advice, when they say 'you will have great chances at other virgin airlines', don't bloody believe them! They told us the same shyt at VEI!!!

[hasell]

Scroggs,
I'm very sorry to hear your bad news. I sincerely hope your back into the RHS soon!!

[RVR800]

Oh dear I am sorry
You'll be back..

[SPRINTING RABBIT]

Sorry to hear your news Scroggs,
As a former F/E at Lyneham I flew with you more than once, so am sorry to see someone I know get hit so hard in times such as these.
I knew about the other Lyn F/E's working with you, but was hoping you were on the 400's!
Hope to see you at the Gatbash and that your time searching for a new (and better) position is short.
Regards

[Bellerophon]

Scroggs

Sorry to hear about your bad news from IFR. Rotten luck! Any news on the LIFO principle from BALPA?

I hope things work out for you, and may see you at the GatBash.

Best wishes,

Bellerophon

[Vicious Squirrel]

Hi Scroggs,

Just want say thanks for all the support that you've given us wannabes and particularly for your encouraging words and help at the last wannabe seminar and Gatbash. And still, through all of this , you're willing to give up time to help us out!

I wish you the best of luck for the future and sincerely hope that a chap with your background and experience will not be in this situation for long!

All the best,

VS

[scroggs]

Once again, peeps, thanks for all the good thoughts. I've been away in Delhi for the last week, so I've been a bit detached from Pprune for that time - possibly no bad thing!
There's no news from Virgin yet about the exact citeria for redundancy. The number of redundancies required seems to have risen to around 270, or about 38% of the flight crew!! 520 cabin crew are to go (15%), and around 100 ground engineers (?%). As the total redundancies announced was 1200, that only leaves 310 from the other 3000-odd people in the company, which seems a bit strange to me. Perhaps we've found a way of making money without flying aeroplanes!
Anyway, it's late and I need some sleep. More news when I know it.

[swashplate]

V sorry to hear this scroggs.

Hope y'all get something soon.

[JetMouse]

Scroggs may i add my sympathy for you...i can't believe only a few weeks ago we were discussing when you could expect to make command and now this happens...

I really hope you get re-assigned instead of let go - however i may take you up on that offer of assistance early next year...

One other thing – with so many flight crew going at virgin and most other airlines – is there a feeling that this was going to happen anyway and the recent events in america just brought forward the inevitable?

[scroggs]

Yes!