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rans6andrew
29th Jun 2014, 21:38
Earlier this year our long time trusted dentist retired. As we had to register with a new dentist we decided that it was a good opportunity to change to a practice closer to home. We signed up with a surgery just a few minutes walk from our home and booked for initial check ups at the beginning of March. A couple of days before the first appointment my partner had a crown fall out. We went for our checkups. The outcome was that I needed an old crown replacing and a new crown fitting to a tooth that I broke (for the third time) at Christmas and never got treated, my partner needed the fallen out crown replacing. My treatment went smoothly, as you would hope/expect but my partner's crown replacement has been er, challenging.

The dentist and my partner were trying to work out how many times she has had the new crown glued back in. It is well into double figures. Initially the new crown, which sits on a pin in her tooth, kept coming out complete with the pin. A bigger pin was glued and screwed into her tooth and the crown drilled to accept it. After that the crown broke free leaving the pin in the tooth more often. The maximum time she has retained the crown is just two weeks. Once she had to go back for a refitting twice on the same day. The type of cement used to glue the crown has been changed more than once. Nothing seems to hold it.

My partner doesn't ever eat anything particularly tough on the teeth. She hardly ever eats nuts, crackers, anything crunchy, never eats pork scratchings etc and is even wary of the crust on bread so it isn't a case of overloading.

Is she unique, unlucky or is the dentist incompetent?

Rans6............

G-CPTN
29th Jun 2014, 21:54
Many years ago, I had a much-loved front tooth that had to be crowned, but, like your case, the crown refused to stay put.

Sadly, I eventually had to give best to the situation and have the tooth removed (there was very little left of the socket after the various mining missions).

Not, perhaps, what you wanted to read, but there you are . . .

Fantome
29th Jun 2014, 22:32
must be pretty lucky - crown to upper incisor in 1968. no movement at all till 2010. Original crown refitted after it came adrift. impressive adhesives

( why do dentists complain they live a hand to mouth existence?)


the monkey monkeying around in the other monkey's mouth at 1:41 -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R0wuzsoXFk

Fantome
29th Jun 2014, 22:53
c'mon . . . . . you cannot . .. . in our society . . . .. have any
say at all about who she will or will not marry . . . .

(she did go out once with a plumber. . . . . came home and said he
was far too round the bend for her. . . hat . . coat)

chuks
30th Jun 2014, 03:45
To be serious for a moment, it sounds as if the original complainant's wife might need an implant, one of those titanium screws that holds an artificial tooth in place. You can get that done here in Germany, no problem.

Tolsti
30th Jun 2014, 03:54
having lost two front crowns after a fall I went to my registered hospital here on Phuket. The verdict was that as the 2 had been replaced a few times over the years that I had 2 choices open to me. Either a 4 tooth bridge or 2 tooth plate.

I chose the 2 tooth plate at the princely sum of the equivalent of 36 quid and am delighted to have my smile back. All concerns I had about plates are proving unfounded and as most Thai fruits are soft I am not having any problems.

goudie
30th Jun 2014, 08:00
has always resided with the firm, but sometimes fickle, female spirit!
As the father of three daughters...amen to that.

Re. Dentists I have had the same, excellent, one for nigh on 35 years. During that time various crowns have had a mixture of fortunes. Fortunately the current ones have been ok for some time. Last week I had some root canal work done, aaaagh!:eek:

Tankertrashnav
30th Jun 2014, 08:28
Can I put in a word of warning here? I was blessed with excellent teeth which required very few fillings and I have never needed a crown. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of my gums, and since my early 50s I've seen a number of perfectly sound, undecayed teeth become loose and eventually either fall out or have to be extracted, and I now have both top and bottom plates with a number of artificial replacements. Fortunately modern dental technicians are good at making these look natural and avoiding the "Hollywood film star" look.

The moral of the story - if you have good teeth, dont be complacent like I was - just floss, floss and floss again - it's the only way you are going to hang onto them.

cockney steve
30th Jun 2014, 11:20
Well, TTN, (i'm the same age as you) As a child, I neglected my teeth, lost the braces which were supposed to straighten out the crooked mess and in my lete 20's had a car accident which left a corner missing from a front upper one.....Shortly after,I move here and a new dentist was found.....Iwas not happy,when informed that allprevious work was substandard and needed redoing! (the same tale had been given by the previous fang-snatcher) Hello?
Anyway, he kept mithering me about repairing the missing corner and eventually,it was agreed that the NHS would pay, so it got done.....some 30 years later , it's still good!
I stopped visiting when I was referred to hospital, regarding "impacted Wisdom teeth"....never got a straight explanation , as to the ramifications of this condition, but was told it's a major procedure and a week off work to recover.

Self-employed, young kids, it didn't happen.....so now we're ~25 years further on....not been back to either, most back teeth crumbled and presumably toxic Mercuric fillings have passed through :eek:
Think I might survive without their wallet-emptying,for the~20-30 years I might have left. :} (appropriate smiley)

Vitesse
30th Jun 2014, 12:51
Y'know, Dental Nursing isn't a bad way into a decent lifestyle.

Being slightly involved with the trade of tooth pulling it's common to hear of the clever young ladies who've bagged themselves a successful chap. Often they get promoted to 'practice manager'.

The cleverest ones make sure they vet their successors, too.

500N
30th Jun 2014, 12:57
I am like Cockney Steve. Except the root cause of my problems was a dentist who seemed to delight in causing pain with injections and drills, the end result I avoided going to a dentist.

That was until I came to Aus and found one who was superb.

603DX
30th Jun 2014, 14:02
To be serious for a moment, it sounds as if the original complainant's wife might need an implant, one of those titanium screws that holds an artificial tooth in place. You can get that done here in Germany, no problem.


That sounds a likely option, and titanium implants are commonly carried out in the UK, as well. However, it is quite a procedure, under almost operating theatre clinical conditions, and often requires a preliminary CT scan of the proposed location to confirm that bone thickness and contours will permit the socket drilling.

Checking whether it can be done under the NHS is definitely advisable, because it is expensive. I have had two implants privately, and the cost was in the thousands, not the hundreds ... :ooh:

dazdaz1
30th Jun 2014, 16:25
Past years, different male dentists, I have now a lady dentist, apart from looking like a model (from Cyprus) she is so delicate when treating my teeth. I would say lady dentists have a lot more feeling to ones mouth, where male dentists can be slightly barbaric when it comes to tooth extractions or mouth examinations with probes.

I'm eating more sugar just to get my next oral sooner.

DevX
30th Jun 2014, 16:46
Oral what!? :ooh:

chevvron
30th Jun 2014, 18:00
603DX: Implants in Poland are a third of the price they are in the UK. My wife needed dental implants and was quoted 'from 2000 each'. She got them done in Szczecin for less than 1000 for 3.
Look at Dental Team - Poland dentist (http://www.dentalteam.pl)

chuks
30th Jun 2014, 19:44
You get what you pay for! Any complications, and you need to go back to Stettin, right?

It might be worth going for the cheap option, agreed, but you might want to ask for references first. Things can go wrong in dentistry, just as in anything else.

chevvron
30th Jun 2014, 23:14
It's still much cheaper to fly to Poland and stay 2 or 3 nights in a hotel while being treated than it is to pay for treatment in the UK.
Sure things sometimes go wrong; one of her veneers came unglued so we flew back and got that fixed, then one of her implants came unscrewed so we flew back and got that fixed, dental work for both for free, in fact he replaced the implants with titanium ones. Both times however, I got some treatment (just a filling and an extraction) so the trip was dual purpose.
Only problem we encountered was our 'usual' hotel, the Ibis Neptun in the centre of Szczecin right next to a big shopping centre, closed between our last 2 visits which were only 6 months apart and I only found out when I tried to book on its website and it came up 'website doesn't exist'!

radeng
1st Jul 2014, 09:29
I didn't go to the dentist for many years. When I did, it ran to three fillings, 5 root canals and 1700. I have had tooth capped two months ago for 380....He has a sign in the toilet 'Ignore your teeth and they will go away'.

Need to make an appointment for a check up.....

cockney steve
1st Jul 2014, 10:37
I didn't go to the dentist for many years. When I did, it ran to three fillings, 5 root canals and 1700. I have had tooth capped two months ago for 380...
See post above...2 grand pays for a nice holiday and fang-work that is done assiduously.

As for me, a soluble aspirin placed on a sensitive stump seems to kill the nerve OK. I won'ttempt fate by telling you how much over a decade i've gone without problems. :}
IMHO one of the few professions left in the UK that use their monopoly to playon fear and ignorance....the stories of the odd multimillionaire dentists who are somewhat less than honest,moral or ethical, do little to dissuade me from my point of view.

chuks
1st Jul 2014, 12:57
Why would something negative about dentists "dissuade" you from having a negative view of dentists? Is this supposed to be "irony"?

Here in Germany, dental care is mostly covered by health insurance. Not all, just most routine procedures. Is it so that in the UK it's not?

Dosing your bad tooth with aspirin, because the nerve is exposed? Man, that's scarier than a trip to the dentist by far.

Lousy cooking, bad teeth and binge drinking are three common stereotypes for the UK. Is that still valid?

Then there is losing at football! That one I can assume to be correct.

Boudreaux Bob
1st Jul 2014, 14:02
The Brits lecturing anyone about Dental Health does make the Mind boggle!:oh:


http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/bad-teeth-tony-blair.jpg

dazdaz1
1st Jul 2014, 14:25
Radeng...... "5 root canals" You should have told the dentist to 'get stuffed' Why do you need 5 root canal drains. If your paying, you can request what treatment you want. Dentists make a good financial return be it NHS or private with a root canal procedure.

Your paying , your in charge, don't be conned.

Yamagata ken
1st Jul 2014, 15:28
Excellent fang-wranglers here in Tohoku. I've had a 40 yo problematic crown replaced with a root and a cap. I've just been through a set of ten visits, two old failing mercury amalgam fillings replaced with gold. All subsidised by my state health cover. Aged 62, I can now chew with either side of my jaw. The best part is my dentist employs a number Very Fit young and enthusiastic Asian Young Ladies as Nurses. :)

Vitesse
1st Jul 2014, 16:48
The Brits lecturing anyone about Dental Health does make the Mind boggle!

I don't think anyone in the US actually knows what real teeth look like. Healthy teeth do not have to be perfectly straight.

A row of overwhite piano keys with zero character, sir? That'll do nicely.

500N
1st Jul 2014, 17:07
Some of the US TV News presenters, brown tan, glowing white teeth.

I think one of the worst is a weather presenter on one of the 3 main stations,
leans on the end of the desk between presentations like a leech.

RatherBeFlying
1st Jul 2014, 20:52
It's been a long saga since my early 20s when a tooth acted up after leaving home. First a nerve cap, then a root canal, ten years later a bridge, replaced every ten years or so until front tooth got a deep cavity.

The dentist was pessimistic about filling which not quite a year later developed an adjacent cavity.

So 4-unit bridge (replacement every ten years) or two implants.

Implant technology has developed very nicely.

These days a single implant will work out better and cheaper over time than 3-5 bridges with the chance that you will be faced with deciding between 4-unit bridge or double implant -- with bone graft for missing tooth spanned by bridge.

As before said: FLOSS

to which I'll add: Phillips Sonicare -- expensive, but will keep your gums healthy and save on the big bills;)

gingernut
1st Jul 2014, 21:06
Recently had to undergo an extraction, went in the chair nervously laughing saying "it can't be worse than childbirth.

1hr 10 minutes later, and what little experience I have of childbirth, I realised I was wrong....:}

My top tip, ensure your dentist has forearms like a slaughterman.

G-CPTN
1st Jul 2014, 21:17
I have just had half a dozen 'below gum level' tooth-remains extracted under local anaesthetic.

The worst part was the injection(s) of the anaesthetic into the palate.

I have another half-dozen to be removed from the other side of my mouth.

gingernut
1st Jul 2014, 21:20
Have to say, felt nowt after the initial jab.

ExSp33db1rd
1st Jul 2014, 21:38
You can get that done here in Germany, no problem

You can get them done in New Zealand, too. Both that my wife had done failed within the year, and the recovery and repair were more horrendous and expensive than fixing the original problem.

I have a few "holes" - but I can still munch a BigMac ( with fries ) so will live with that.

Pays y'money and takes y'choice.

chevvron
2nd Jul 2014, 01:12
The guy I go to in Poland doesn't use needles as such; he has a probe which you don't feel at all and which I am guessing forces the numbing agent through the skin under pressure, the result being only the small area where he's going to work is numbed, not your whole jaw. I'm shit scared of dentists but even I don't mind that. The extraction I had, I just felt one twinge as the nerve separated and that was it.

MagnusP
2nd Jul 2014, 09:49
RbF, I'm not a big fan of floss, but I use TePe interdental brushes. Great things.

felixflyer
2nd Jul 2014, 12:25
I highly recommend oil pulling. Basically you use normal sunflower or vegetable oil and swish it around your mouth for 15 minutes twice a day. It really does work wonders on teeth and gums. I was told about it years ago and was sceptical but gave it a try. I have not had to go to the dentist for 9 years now.

I do it twice a day for a couple of weeks every 6 months or so and once or twice a week in between. You notice the change after the first few days. Its much better on the gums than flossing too.

Google it, apparently it can cure all sorts of ailments and I am not sure about that but everyone I have mentioned it to that has tried it has been amazed at the effect on the teeth and carry on doing it still.

dazdaz1
2nd Jul 2014, 13:06
flexiflyer...."Basically you use normal sunflower or vegetable oil" Q? So after use, does one spit it back out into the deep fat fryer? :ooh:

felixflyer
2nd Jul 2014, 13:12
Oh yes I forgot to add, under no circumstances swallow it:uhoh:

And no, not back in the deep fat fryer either. It goes in the jar labelled 'Mayonaise for visitors'

reynoldsno1
3rd Jul 2014, 03:04
I have had six fillings in my life of more than 60 years - about 4 of them replaced - last 8 years ago. Piece of rear molar broke t'other day - no real issue. Went to dentist this am (in NZ). Showed me tooth was cracked, but quite healthy. Offered three solutions - I've gone for a ceramic 'crown', that is actually more like a filling really - the most expensive but he reckons will last me for about 10-15 years. My fillings lasted 20+. X-ray & prepared site today, back in tomorrow - no wait, crown manufactured and fitted on site in about 2 hours using a 3D scanner and what appears to be an electronic lathe. $NZ1600 or about 800 quid - have no idea whether that's reasonable or not, but impressed by the prompt treatment, and the hi-tech gear.

reynoldsno1
7th Jul 2014, 04:24
New crown fitted - feels great, and was 'coloured' to match my natural ones. Surgery called today to ask how it was, and if there are any problems. :ok:

chevvron
7th Jul 2014, 06:36
Our bloke in Szczecin can't beat 2 hours for a new crown, but he does have a tie up with a local lab and can get new bridges, crowns or whatever made in 48 hours, so we usually plan on a 3 day visit.
By the way, I didn't tell you before, but his website hasn't been updated to say his wife is no longer his assistant, but instead he employs a rather tasty local girl who doesn't seem to wear a lot underneath her 'steriles'!

chuks
7th Jul 2014, 08:23
From what I know, even using highly-skilled dentists and a top laboratory, mistakes still may happen. Then it becomes a matter of a short trip back to your local dentist or specialist, or else a trip to far-off Stettin, for instance. It's easy to imagine that Polish dentist being under a lot of time and cost pressure, compared to someone working in a local practice.

There are different standards for treatment as well. For instance, one can fill two adjacent cavities in two separate teeth using one filling. That's not acceptable practice in Germany, but further east it's okay. Well, it's a much cheaper solution.

We do see people traveling to former East Bloc countries for dental care, particularly since the German health care system dropped payments for much more than basic dental work years ago; crowns are no longer covered here.

Most of this is down to price, right across the spectrum from medical and dental care to buying booze, fags, and even sex; even the humble garden gnome is being sold much cheaper right across the border. It's obvious that the quality may not be as high for a lot less money, since "you get what you pay for," but if it's satisfactory, well ....

The thing with crowns and such is that sometimes the fit isn't right, something that may only become apparent days or weeks later. You need to take this into account when you elect to use a low-cost provider. On the most mundane level, it's like the difference between buying a car from the main-line dealer, or else going to the guy down the street selling "grey imports." That usually works out fine, but if there's real trouble, you may find yourself on your own. In both cases, choosing the low-cost option may be a reasonable risk to take, particularly if money is tight, but one should still be aware of the risks.

What we are reading about here is the short-term result: "Hey guys! Listen to the great deal I found!" It's not so likely that someone who made a bad deal is going to be telling us about a mistake he made.

One that I find rather scary is the mass-marketing of laser eye surgery: the idea that you can walk in, get treated, and walk out a short time later with perfect vision for not so much money. Well, that's what people want to be told, about the quick, cheap fix.

When you look at the price gap between health care in America and Western Europe, then you are talking! The standard of health care in Europe is as high or higher than in the States, but the costs in the States are insanely high by comparison, for reasons that probably go back to the way the system is run. It's something similar for the differential cost of dental care between Western and Eastern Europe, when the argument becomes one about the standard of care.

BlueDiamond
7th Jul 2014, 08:47
So 4-unit bridge (replacement every ten years) ...
Are you sure that's right, RBF?? I've had an eight-unit bridge in place for about 29 years now and no problems at all with it ... ever. Ten years doesn't seem like much for that level of investment.

Use those interdental brushes myself, Magnus (although not the same brand) ... so much easier than dental floss and far more effective too.

thing
7th Jul 2014, 21:12
The Brits lecturing anyone about Dental Health does make the Mind boggle!

Yep, always wanted one of those American smiles that look like a set of new piano keys...not. They look as ridiculous to us as our teeth probably do to you. Cultural thing.

chuks
8th Jul 2014, 08:58
No, sorry, having poor dental health is not a "cultural thing" at all. Well, perhaps it is in terms of showing up a cultural deficiency, failing to teach and perhaps enable people to take care of their teeth, but that's about as "cultural" as speaking like a yob or coming out of school only semi-literate; it's a failure.

You see entertainers with these gleaming, fake choppers, certainly, but that's not typical for the average Yankee. We have our own share of dental disasters, believe me. (I remember a redneck girlfriend, a real beauty ... then I met her older sister, all of 25 years-old, who did not have a tooth in her head. God damn, Girl, how do you live from eating road-kill, with no teeth?)

It's just that in polite society one is expected to have healthy teeth. Not "Tom Cruise perfect" teeth, just healthy teeth: no cavities, no gross accumulations of tartar ... that sort of thing. That requires regular brushing and flossing and going to the dentist now and then to have the fangs cleaned and polished: too much trouble and/or expense for many.

I think that "British cooking is lousy; All Brits have terrible teeth," are preconceptions that are losing validity. I have enjoyed dining in the UK without panicky thoughts of where to find a good man with a stomach pump, and I have conversed with random Brits without thinking, "My God, man! Has nobody ever told you about using a toothbrush?" Please do not try to couple having rotten fangs with British patriotism.

Capot
8th Jul 2014, 19:52
After more than 4 decades of typical British NHS dentistry, all macho stuff, "we don't mind a little pain, do we?", extraction at the drop of a hat, I went private a couple of years ago.

Fabulous. Endless care, discuss the options, no pain, preserve the teeth at all costs (OK, considerable costs)and a gorgeous woman who knows more about good dentistry than any dentist I've ever met before.

She replaced a couple of old fillings this morning at 8.00 o'clock. The only thing I felt during the whole procedure was a light pressure of her left breast on my head, which was curiously comforting. By 10.00 o'clock the anaesthetic had worn off, and I had two new, beautiful, matching fillings in my back teeth.

The NHS sadist would probably have had the two teeth out.

james ozzie
8th Jul 2014, 20:24
I went to a highly recommended new guy. He said I needed a crown and the process got under way. As he neared completion, he suddenly advised that I also needed one on the adjacent tooth. A bit of a surprise but I went ahead. Much later, I realised he had done the wrong tooth. I had extractions as a child and I think it confused him and he must have miscounted the tooth designator.

A reminder that all professionals can make errors.