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View Full Version : Peugeot ESP computers . . . why so expensive?


Discorde
25th Jun 2014, 11:46
Highly irritating . . . for the last year my 207CC automatic has the ESP fault light illuminating after engine start. The engine/transmission system behaves normally as far as I can tell.

To pass its MOT the local Peugeot dealer says the ESP warning must be fixed to comply with the latest MOT regs regarding electronic engine control systems and they're quoting 1300 for a new ESP computer following diagnostic tests. Has anyone else come across this problem? Are there cheaper sources for these parts?

Ancient Observer
25th Jun 2014, 11:47
Get a friendly electrician to disconnect the warning light?

Shaggy Sheep Driver
25th Jun 2014, 11:58
That won't work. The MOT inspector looks to see that warning lights (engine, air bags, etc) come on initially, then extinguish as the systems check out OK.

spekesoftly
25th Jun 2014, 12:08
The engine/transmission system behaves normally as far as I can tell.

During normal driving you won't notice ESP (Electronic Stability Programme) failure. It only comes into play if you get into difficulty. The link below explains:-


The Peugeot 207 SW | 5 Door Practical Estate Car and Station Wagon (http://www.peugeot.co.uk/showroom/207/sw/www.peugeot.co.uk/family-cars-range/#!explore/key-features/safety-security/electronic-stability-programme-esp)

Rower
25th Jun 2014, 12:13
Discorde


Try disconnecting your battery and leave it disconnected overnight.


Worked for me

mixture
25th Jun 2014, 12:22
During normal driving you won't notice ESP (Electronic Stability Programme) failure. It only comes into play if you get into difficulty.

Erm.... no. Its useful in all sorts of circumstances where vehicle dynamics comes into play, not necessarily only where limit points are involved.

And to be honest, its shoddy advice that you suggest he just forgets about ESP.

Tom!
25th Jun 2014, 12:23
the latest MOT regs regarding electronic engine control systems
But ESP/ESC has nothing to do with engine control as far as I know (Thats the ECU).
ESP detects loss of traction and it automatically applies the brakes to help "steer" the vehicle.

So as its not an engine control, I dont know if said rules apply.

tom775257
25th Jun 2014, 12:27
I would go to another independent garage and get the codes read - I would never trust one garage especially when it could be something as simple as a wheel speed sensor. Once you know exactly what the problem is go from there. Certainly on BMW and VAG the Continental/Teves stability system has an internal pressure sensor that often fails (including on my BMW). In that case they have come up with a repair kit now, whereas previously you had to replace the whole unit at 1000+

It is always worth repairing though, it might save your life. Good luck.

tom775257
25th Jun 2014, 12:45
PEUGEOT ABS (PUMP & ECU/MODULE COMBINED) Products (http://www.ecutesting.com/catalogue/peugeot_eculist.html?category=4047)

They can refurb your unit if required.

Yes, stability control systems communicate with the engine ECU to control power (reducing if loss of traction etc)

mixture
25th Jun 2014, 12:53
ESP detects loss of traction and it automatically applies the brakes to help "steer" the vehicle.

Nope. That's the layman's explanation.

Truth is that modern ESP systems are a lot more complex, do a lot more than just applying the brakes, they also have control over the powertrain (sure via the ECU, but point being the modern ESP does a lot more than just fiddle with the brakes).

PleasureFlyer
25th Jun 2014, 12:56
How did we ever cope without all these gizmos in the past :ooh:

mixture
25th Jun 2014, 13:01
How did we ever cope without all these gizmos in the past

ABS, ESP, TCS are all good positive enhancements.

Stuff like self-parking, driverless cars and all that nonsense is the stuff you really want to be bemoaning. :cool:

spekesoftly
25th Jun 2014, 13:07
And to be honest, its shoddy advice that you suggest he just forgets about ESP.

I suggested no such thing. Because ESP is a useful safety device (amonst others) I'm suggesting that the OP does not conclude all is well just because the "The engine/transmission system behaves normally as far as I can tell".

dazdaz1
25th Jun 2014, 13:29
Rower... "Try disconnecting your battery and leave it disconnected overnight." That's all very well as long as one has the radio security code to re enter.

Effluent Man
25th Jun 2014, 14:11
I think 1300 is a rip off.I am in the trade and just paid 440+VAT for an ESP fix on a similar car.Some trade discount on that but 500+VAT seems about the mark to aim for.As far as I know there isn't a fix,I have tried.

OFSO
25th Jun 2014, 15:19
Unplug the computer, leave in freezer set to max for a couple of days. Oh no, that's to reset the password.

ChrisVJ
25th Jun 2014, 15:49
Mrs VJ and I always had second hand cars until we came to Canada, then mostly second hand but even the new ones we basically ran into the ground before moving on.

Four years ago she bought a new Civic, very nice car by the way, and No 3 son bought a one year old truck. Last month Honda phoned her and said they could get her into a brand new civic 2014 for the same or less money than she was paying on her old one. (She only used the payment plan because it was ZERO interest) She is now in the new car and it is very nice indeed. No up front cost, just old car and thirty bucks LESS a month than before! Son went out and did the same for a new truck.

Personally I am shocked, we never believed in the 'exchange your car every two or three years' thing but it seems with five year bumper to bumper warranty it is a very sensible option. Mrs VJ even declined the extended warranty. Her standard warranty is B to B for three years and then she can have a new car.

Hell of a deal.

MG23
25th Jun 2014, 16:18
Last month Honda phoned her and said they could get her into a brand new civic 2014 for the same or less money than she was paying on her old one.

Honda keep trying to convince us to replace our Civic with a new one, too :). To be honest, the new ones don't seem that much different except for a CVT gearbox and a whole bunch of new electronics, and our 2009 has been reliable enough that I'm in no hurry to switch.

Was interesting yesterday because we do have to replace my girlfriend's twenty-year-old Buick soon and I went around a few car dealers collecting brochures for the ones we're thinking about. Honda was the only one where the sales guys actually tried to sell cars when I wandered in. The others, I actually had to find a sales person to get the brochures from, whereas the Honda guys said hello as soon as I walked in the door and spent 45 minutes showing me around the new cars.

Back on topic, I've only driven one car with stability control, and we had to try really hard to get the light to come on; the only time I saw it flash was taking a sharp corner on a gravel road covered in snow. Sounds like, price-wise, it's almost better to buy a new car when it fails than a new computer.

Personally I am shocked, we never believed in the 'exchange your car every two or three years' thing but it seems with five year bumper to bumper warranty it is a very sensible option

I've been shocked by used car prices here, since I rarely paid more than 1,000 pounds for a car in the UK. The lower depreciation compared to the UK makes changing cars every few years far more viable.

Dushan
25th Jun 2014, 16:27
How did we ever cope without all these gizmos in the past :ooh:

Gentlemen, gentlemen we are getting dangerously close to FBW/manual, Airbus/Boeing discussion.

Blues&twos
25th Jun 2014, 17:20
mixture

Stuff like self-parking, driverless cars and all that nonsense is the stuff you really want to be bemoaning.

And you can add to that my least favourite total waste of time, effort and money.....the electronic handbrake.

(I don't have one on my car, although I have driven cars with them fitted. Really couldn't see any point in them).

Capetonian
25th Jun 2014, 17:26
The automatic handbrake is disconcerting and unnecessary. My other pet hate is the stop/start on many new cars. If it knew that you would be stopped for a certain time, it would make sense, but as it stops at every halt, and can only be disabled on a single journey basis at least on the cars I've driven, it's a monstrous pain in the wotsit and just more to go wrong and cost money.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7593647/DSC03665.JPG

MG23
25th Jun 2014, 17:26
(I don't have one on my car, although I have driven cars with them fitted. Really couldn't see any point in them).

Those are for people who can't do hill starts in a manual, aren't they? Don't they hook into the hill start assist to hold the car when you release the clutch?

Of course it probably also helps eliminate brake burnout when you drive down the highway with the handbrake on ('what's that burning smell?' we said. 'Oh crap,' he said).

mixture
25th Jun 2014, 17:49
If it knew that you would be stopped for a certain time, it would make sense, but as it stops at every halt, and can only be disabled on a single journey basis at least on the cars I've driven

Don't be so heavy footed on the brake pedal and you may be surprised. :cool:

(I'll leave you to solve the riddle.... but the long and short is that for all the auto-off cars I've driven so far, what you say is nonsense....)

angels
25th Jun 2014, 19:46
The more you bung into a car, the more there is to go wrong.

Why does a car need a bloody computer? :*

MG23
25th Jun 2014, 20:29
The more you bung into a car, the more there is to go wrong.

Why does a car need a bloody computer? :*

My last car in the UK had points and a carburettor and all that other crap that needed maintenance and adjustments every few months; the closest thing to a computer was the CD player.

The Civic has God knows how many computers, and it just needs an oil change every year or so.

I was reluctant to buy a car with a computer when they first came out, not just because, when I worked in avionics, cars were considered one of the few environments tougher than ours. But now they've been sold by the hundreds of millions, they're generally much more reliable than the old analogue gadgets.

G-CPTN
25th Jun 2014, 21:15
My house is on a steep hill with parallel parking opposite.

I discovered a young lady truly in distress as her car had an electric handbrake, and, although there is a hill-start feature she kept getting closer and closer to the car in front every time she tried to reverse up the hill to vacate the parking space.

I solved her problem by placing a housebrick in front of her front wheel and she was able to 'gun' the throttle and take up the drive without stalling (which had been happening).

Apparently, some vehicle manufacturers supply chocks for this purpose on cars fitted with electric handbrakes.

My daughter owned a car with an electric handbrake which developed a fault which the independent garage suggested might cost as much as 1000 to fix. As it happened, they managed to fix it for a nominal sum so she immediately p/exed it for a more sensible vehicle (with a manual handbrake).

WRT to automatic stop/start, my manual transmission car will only cut the engine when I select neutral and release the clutch pedal. If I remain 'in gear' with the clutch-pedal depressed the engine remains running.

ChrisVJ
25th Jun 2014, 21:32
I purposely left Mrs VJ to go and try out new cars for herself. She tried the Hyundai and a Toyota and hated them both.

I was surprised to find more updates on her new Civic than the reviews had led me to believe. Paddle gears, New dash, new computerised trip and consumption indicators, (about three going all the time, Boring!) steering wheel radio controls. 'Connect' system voice recognition for most of the radio functions and her iphone. (and rather good voice recognition too.)

Also, to my mind the road noise from the back wheels is a good deal less than the old one. That was one of the few things that I found annoying.

As far as I can tell she doesn't have the variable speed non-gear box. Her paddle system definitely shows indicated gears and I can see 'bumps' in the revs when I change. I'm not a great fan of variable speed gizmos, maybe remind me too much of the DAF.

I wondered for a moment if they'd sneakily sold her a 2013 but it has all the other 2014 features.

500N
25th Jun 2014, 21:36
Also, to my mind the road noise from the back wheels is a good deal less than the old one.

Chris

That could well be the tyres themselves. I put a set of tyres on my car once and had to change them as they were so noisy.

A dealer might have switched tyres without telling you, still new but not as good a set as the manufacturer put on.

MG23
25th Jun 2014, 21:42
As far as I can tell she doesn't have the variable speed non-gear box. Her paddle system definitely shows indicated gears and I can see 'bumps' in the revs when I change. I'm not a great fan of variable speed gizmos, maybe remind me too much of the DAF.

Ah, is it a coupe? Looks like those come with optional paddle shifters that make the CVT switch between defined ratios like a conventional automatic.

I've only looked at the Sedan, I didn't even realize the coupe had that until you mentioned it.

Nervous SLF
25th Jun 2014, 22:09
Our Toyota even tells us if SWMBO has her phone turned on and how much battery charge it has left.

ChrisVJ
26th Jun 2014, 01:12
MG23

Yes it is a coupe. Interesting idea if so. Put in a 'feature' gear system but make it behave like the old gearbox. I shall have to look more closely at the rev counter when in Drive.

Some of the new phones are interesting when connected to the Nav system in the car.

No 1 son rented 2014 Civic when in Penticton. As we drove out of town to go visit wineries in the general direction of his home (nearly 3,000 miles away!) the car announced how far it was and how long it would take hime to get home.

After three weeks of regularly driving from hotel to airport it would tell him how long to get to the airport or back to the hotel without being asked.

Rower
26th Jun 2014, 12:37
dazdaz1 (http://www.pprune.org/members/333812-dazdaz1)


No codes to remember, the system came back on immediately complete with the memory of all programmed radio stations.


The only reprogramming was the time / date which is on the normal display

OFSO
26th Jun 2014, 12:57
Changing the battery ? Connect a (smaller) 12v battery across the terminals before you take the main one out. It will keep various things alive until you've humped the replacement into place and done the terminals up..

superq7
26th Jun 2014, 14:13
Re auto handbrakes, they auto deactivate when you drive off forward or reverse.

Discorde
26th Jun 2014, 15:27
I've learnt my lesson: it's unlikely any Peugeot products will be included in any of my future vehicular acquisitions. I needed a small automatic convertible and the choice was limited. The 207 has been more costly to maintain than any of the other cars I have owned over the last almost five decades.

MG23
26th Jun 2014, 16:26
Yes it is a coupe. Interesting idea if so. Put in a 'feature' gear system but make it behave like the old gearbox. I shall have to look more closely at the rev counter when in Drive.

Subaru have been doing something similar with their more 'sporty' cars. In 'Intelligent' mode the CVT just acts like a CVT and figures out the best ratio for fuel economy, in 'Sport' mode it acts like a traditional gearbox with fixed ratios, and keeps the revs higher for better performance when you hit the gas at any speed.

G-CPTN
26th Jun 2014, 16:27
Re auto handbrakes, they auto deactivate when you drive off forward or reverse.That might be alright in theory and on level ground or with automatic transmission, but I have observed (and have had to rescue) two manual transmission vehicles trying unsuccessfully to reverse up a steep hill and stalling then running forwards - perilously close to the vehicle parked in front down the slope.

It's rather like my traction control - I cannot drive up a steep gravelled drive as the engine stalls every time I try - but turn off the traction control and it sails up! - defeats logic . . .

ChrisVJ
26th Jun 2014, 16:28
500N

Could be affected by tires though I didn't notice as much difference as I did on the Yukon when we put Winter tires on. Huge chunky tread, now they are noisy.

What I do notice is that there is almost no 'Silent Travel' in the trunk or rear seat area. The trunk carpet is pretty thin too. Back in the day when some cars had solid metal behind the back seats one didn't expect rumble from the rear. In the 2010 it was very noticeable, maybe the change in shape or some stiffening of the trunk floor has helped or maybe I am just so used to it that it seems less.

tdracer
27th Jun 2014, 02:27
From ~1980 to ~2010, the new electronics being added to cars generally made them better. I'm particularly impressed at the improvements in power and fuel mileage that modern fuel injection/electronic engine control has made over the old carburetor systems.:ok:

The last five years, not so much - complication and expense with questionable benefit.:ugh:

25 years ago, I had a 1986 Mazda RX-7. Overall, really liked the car but it was an early production model (line number 87 of the new model!) and a bit of an electronics lemon. Anyway, the horn stopped working, and it was off warranty. Did some troubleshooting and traced the problem to a relay in the "CPU" box - located in the drivers kick panel area - which is already sounding expensive. Went into the local Mazda dealer and asked what a new CPU would cost - 'about $500' (in 1990 dollars). Ouch - maybe I don't really need a horn :rolleyes:. Then the guy shows be a diagram of the CPU and asks me if I know which circuit board I need - 'yea, that big one right there' (there were four boards in the CPU). He does a quick check and says '29 bucks'. It seems the 'component' price was basically wholesale - assuming a shop was fixing the LRU. The LRU price was full retail since it was an LRU.:ugh:

John Hill
27th Jun 2014, 05:23
Ancient Australian cars fitted with PBR braking systems had some sort of delay in the master cylinder.

If the car was stopped facing uphill and was being held on the foot brake releasing the brake had a delay of about 1 or so seconds which was plenty enough to get the right foot from the brake to the throttle pedal. I seem to recall the same scheme came into play when starting down hill.