Passengers with metal in their bodies.

[bosnich71]

Given the high incidence of elderly people having hip/knee replacement surgery these days and the problems associated with having metal inside one's person when travelling by air I was interested in what the protocols at airports, mainly in Australia, are when the scanner goes off. Obviously the passenger would inform security about their medical procedure but what do the security people do then? Do they, for example, do a search with a hand held scanner and establish that indeed the passenger does have a metal knee etc. or do they go straight to a full pat down procedure ?

[Angle of Attack]

They go to a hand held scanner and then pat down of the area, I know a Captain with 2 metal hips and he goes through it every time at security..

[Ken Borough]

Boz,

I've had a total knee replacement as well as other surgery requiring the use of metal. Flying is now a real hassle. Just the other day I had to remove shoes, belt and empty all pockets for a full body scan and frisk. They even scanned the soles of my feet! It is quite embarrassing, especially as they x-rayed not only my mobile phone but also my wallet, and made a very public point of doing so!

I don't know the correct protocol but it would sure help of something like an ASIC card was made available after the appropriate medical, character and security checks were made. I think the problem is that the security bods would still be unable to determine if the alarms were set off by the metal in one's body or something more sinister notwithstanding all the checks and letters etc in the world. It's a real bloody pain. :*

[nitpicker330]

An ASIC. Hah that's funny Ken because most here would say that an ASIC would just make them give you an even harder time. Yes that's right like they do to the crews.

[Angle of Attack]

An ASIC is just a box ticking exercise, means nothing these days there are so many contractors running around with photocopied ASICS anyway no one gives a damn.... Just more Bull$hit from office jockeys while not actually fixing any problems..

[onetrack]

My wife has two replacement knees with about 500g of titanium in each, and security screening at airports is a right PIA for her.

The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any system or procedures in place for screening people with hip and knee replacements or steel plates in their skulls.

Every security operator seems to approach the "metal in body" issue with a different attitude.
Some security screeners are quite happy to be informed that she has artificial knees, at which point there is an "O.K." from the screener, and a quick scan and patdown ensues, and she's right to go.

Other security screeners promptly treat her like a terrorist, refuse to accept the explanation, and give her the "works".

It's high time a system was implemented whereby people with metal in the bodies can get a doctors certificate to present to security staff, which would then be accepted, and a simple scan carried out to allow the person to proceed - without the 3rd degree treatment.
Some of the security screeners are particularly officious - it's obvious they aren't picked for their "inter-personal skills".

[Lancair70]

I have 2 metal plates in my right forearm, I have since I was 12yrs old and NEVER EVER has it gone off in an airport security scan. The first few times I flew I took x-rays etc to prove it but after NEVER having been stopped I didnt bother taking documents.
I have a metal pin pointer that will react to my plates and my ground search metal detector goes nuts near my arm but NEVER, even in a manual metal detecting sweep, has it ever been detected in an airport.

[wakefield]

I have a pacemaker and have a "Pacemaker Implant Patient ID Card" which I present to Security. Belt off, shoes and socks off, pockets empty. All that goes through the Xray. Then receive pat down search, for which they offer it to be done privately or in public. I take public ( gets a few looks!). Then belt back on to stop pants falling down, shoes back on, refill pockets and move on.

I have 2 issue with this-

1. Security should have an overhead prominent sign designating a dedicated lane for people like myself. Sometime I get from Security "you are in the wrong lane, you should be in that one"

2. More often than not there is no chair to sit on to put your shoes and socks back on.

Other than that it's no big deal and you can't fly if you refuse.

[500N]

Pre 9/11
I used to have two pins in my leg, just above the knee AND a full leg plaster.
Set the alarm off every time. I used to carry an X-ray with me since they had no way of checking inside the plaster.

Not sure I would like to fly internationally now with a full plaster that can't be removed.

[bosnich71]

Guys, thanks for your answers. My query was made because my wife has recently had a full knee replacement. A month ago we travelled from Melbourne to the Gold Coast. Going through security at Tullamarine there were no problems. The wife informed the security bloke of her metal knee. He did a local scan on the area, was satisfied and off we went.
The problem came at Gold Coast airport when leaving to return to Melbourne. The scanner went off, wife informed the "security" bloke who then waved a female person over. Wife repeatedly told her of the operation but was ignored and after doing a brief wave over with the mobile scanner .... which did indeed show that there was metal in my wife's knee my wife was ordered to hold out her arms whilst the officer then proceeded to do a full, and what I consider to be an intimate, pat down of my wife in full view of the queue of passengers going through security.. At no time was she offered an investigation in a private area and in fact I thought that the female was completely indifferent to what was being said to her.
After this I found her somewhere to sit while I went off to buy a magazine. When I returned I found her so upset that she was in tears. I then went to find someone in authority to make a complaint about what had happened. The lady I spoke to was sympathetic and gave us the e mail address of her superior and on return to Melbourne my wife made a complaint about her treatment. A reply came over three weeks later, after a further e mail query from us, which basically called my wife a liar and accused her of not informing either of the pair security officers of her knee surgery and also said that she had been given a card to read which informed her of her right to an examination in private. I was present and neither of these things are true and another email has been sent saying so.
The answers given on this blog to my query confirm what I have always suspected about the so called security checks carried out at airports. Despite what we were told by the supervisor about 'protocols' for dealing with "passengers with special needs" as the government calls us these protocols are not always followed and if the security person you run across is having a bad day then you should be prepared to have one as well.
However I shall now be taking the next step and asking for an interview with my local Federal M.P.

[NoseGear]

bosnich, I can only post in sympathy for you and your wife's experience...and I would say go forward with your complaint to your local MP. I am a regular aircrew member through Australian ports and I can say in all honesty, security "officers" there are amongst the very worst in the world. I have witnessed one in BNE who shouted at and abused an old lady, reducing the poor lady to tears, and who I then took issue with, causing an argument between us as I told him in no uncertain terms to leave her alone. As an aside, I related that story on here on yet another thread about security and I received a PM from the security manager at BNE airport asking for more details as he was quite shocked at the incident. In SYD I have on more than one occasion been told that I am getting randomly selected for "extra" security measures, which is mainly wiping my bag, and hat(:ugh:) for explosives. On one occasion I asked the officer if it was really necessary and he said, and I quote, "we can do this the hard way or the easy way"...I broke out into laughter and said to him, "What are you going to do? Handcuff me and throw me on the ground?"

I don't know what it is there, but honestly, the goons at airport security clearly feel they have some special powers that free them to act like complete a$$holes:rolleyes::ugh::yuk:

[roundsounds]

The TravelSECURE (http://www.travelsecure.infrastructure.gov.au) website provides guidance on this subject. Refer to the "Travellers with Special Needs" "Going through security checks" page. It seems you declare the implant before being screened and will be screened with a hand held scanner and subjected to a frisk search. I've recently had a titanium / ceramic hip implant and haven't set off any scanners despite frequently passing through them.

[bosnich71]

Nose gear ... thanks for your input.
What has really upset my wife over this episode is that she was accused of lying about what was said or not said. I was stood at her side while all this was happening and there was no offer of privacy, card to read etc. and she definitely told both officers on multiple occasions about her knee.
As you said passengers are supposed to stand there and take anything that these so called security experts throw at us on the pain of being refused entry if we object which is why I kept my mouth shut at the time and have in the past despite my wife being singled out for explosives checking on three occasions whilst making only four flights in the past 3 years. I should add that she is a 70 year, white,blonde lady with impeccable manners and dress sense ... if I say so myself.


Roundsounds ....We did declare the implant before going through the scanner. The male officer just flicked his arm and called a female over to deal with it. The female officer was again told, repeatedly,that my wife had metal in her knee but as well as a hand held scanner being used to verify that that was indeed where the metal was she proceeded to do not a "pat down" but the sort of thing one might see on an American police programme. If this is the norm. then I'm afraid it needs to be changed.

[thorn bird]

"proceeded to do a full, and what I consider to be an intimate, pat down of my wife in full view of the queue of passengers going through security".


Bosy mate next time this happens, when they start the patdown your wife should scream and as loud as possible say "You pervert you touched me intimately, your a lesbian!!"...watch them run for cover.
I'm told in the US if they touch your children and you start yelling pervert, pedophile!! they cant get rid of you quick enough.

[Avgas172]

Had to have a chuckle at this thread, my wife (cute as she is) constantly gets screened for explosives almost every time we go into through a screening area and it :mad: her off no end ... While I just saunter through in my RM boots setting off alarms without a care in the world .....:ok:

[underfire]

TB real smart, real smart.

If you dont like being strip searched, dont fly. It is as simple as that.

Flying :mad: these days. between the :mad:terrorists and :mad: reporters, the terminal experience :mad:

All the time you see the news where some :mad: reporter has concealed something, and made it through security, even strapping it to their mom's :mad:
While airport security is what it is, have you sat back and seen the :mad: people try to bring through? Do you see the number of loaded guns, knives, and other :mad: people try to bring on board?

Want to get searched, buy a one way ticket with multiple destinations, use multiple credit cards, or just give them a hard time. They will make sure you have nothing to hide.

Cheap fares have let all kind of :mad: fly, and it really makes it tough when they whine like :mad:

You dont like the search? DONT :mad: fly. it is just that simple.

[TURIN]

Well, that escalated quickly. :D

[NoseGear]

underfire, nice to see someone from airport security post on here....:rolleyes: You certainly have the attitude to work there:E
The problem is a complete lack of ability to apply some common sense. I don't think it's crossing too many boundaries to say there haven't been any elderly ladies conduct hijackings but a certain group that have. I've been the subject of extra security whilst members of that "group" stroll through:ugh: As aircrew, I know the rules and I abide by them, but if for some unknown reason I really wanted to take control...guess what? I already have it and have zero need for explosives, 100gm of hair gel or deodorant!:rolleyes:

[kimwestt]

With a recent total hip replacement, and doing SY - Dubai-Istanbul-Bodrum, and return, there were no problems. Sure, the scanner went off, but as soon as I indicated my hip, a quick pass over with the hand held, accompanied by a smile, and I was on my way.
Going through security leaving bodrum (Turkey) a security bloke came up to my wife, and with quite a stern voice said " You cannot fly today". The missus went a bit white, and then he started laughing, and said "That's because you don't have wings!!" - all in a thick Turkish accent. He looked at me and said that he wasn't sure - whereupon I pulled my ASIC out of my wallet and said Yes I can - cause I've got wings.
When he understood, and so did his mates, I thought that all the security blokes were going to have heart attacks, they were laughing that hard. Needless to say, we had a very pleasant 3/4 hr wait for the flight, chatting with the security people. Probably wouldn't happen in Oz, more's the pity. And yeah, the:Dy were all armed (to the teeth )!!

[Pinky the pilot]

Over 22 years ago now I managed to survive a prang which made a bit of a mess of my back. The best Orthopod in the Country put it back together, fusing three vertabrae together and supporting it with about 8 ounces of surgical stainless steel screws and rods.

When it came to flying home after being discharged from hospital I approached the security guys and told them of my injury and the fact that I was held together with steel bits.

They waved me through and of course it set off the detector! All they wanted to do was wave the wand over me and inspect the area where it set the wand off. Their only comments were along the lines of `nice scar you have there,` `you`re bloody lucky you`re still walking` etc etc.

Bosnich71; Do not stop until you have recieved a full apology in writing!

underfire; You really are a sad individual!

[bentleg]

My wife has a metal knee. It sets off the detectors at many airports and she hates the pat down that sometimes follows. Most "reasonable" security people check her with a handheld scanner then wave her through. She likes the new xray full body scanners, as they “see” the knee, so there is no pat down.


Unfortunately the reality is - Don't comply means Don't fly. The situation is not helped by some security people being not real smart and having the flexibility of a steel girder.

[Shark Slayer]

Look, security staff aren't well paid, aren't well trained and are universally despised. Fact of life.

I fly regularly. I'm a medically retired airline pilot fitted with an AICD, pacemaker / defibrillator, hence why I now longer fly. The device has never triggered the AMD (arch metal detector) but often things like a belt will. Funny how they do in one airport and not another?

When the security officer then attempts to wave a hand metal wand over me, I have to step back and refuse, as I can't let it near the machine. Medtronics, the manufacturer of the AICD say there is no problem with passing through AMD, but do you think you can tell Airport Security Staff? I'm over having a physical search done, that's why I just go through the AMD.

I always get the explosives test! I must look suspicious! Maybe it's the beard and the "Osama for President" t-shirt?

[tecman]

I appreciate the frustration, Shark. My 78 yo mother had a Medtronics neuro-stimulator implanted and, still with the stitches in place in her chest and head, had to fly out of Melbourne. Despite having the descriptive card, and being in obvious discomfort, she still got a hard time at security. I had to argue the case for no metal detector or wand - with all that she'd been through, we certainly didn't want to risk any program corruption of the Medtronics unit. In the end she did get a pat down, which was itself intrusive and uncomfortable.

By the way, I assumed underfire was being ironic. No one is actually that dumb, are they?

[Snakecharma]

Bosnich, insist on seeing the CCTV footage of your security experience.

Security are very quick to whip out the CCTV footage when they want to have a bleat about a pilot or cabin crew member having a tanty about how they were treated by the security officers. They should be able to retrieve the data as long as you request it formally.

[Shark Slayer]

Yep, gotta watch those 78 year old white ladies........they fit right into the demographic for terrorists and suicide bombers! Check those shoes carefully!