SL Jimmy Harrison wristwatch.. well maybe...

[milcollector]

Hi I'm a newbie here but have used the site before for reference


I'm a military watch collector for a number of years and have a collection that covers all MOD services, but I particularly focus on Longines that had a good history with the MOD.


As many of you will know, after the war the MOD tendered for the Mark 11 pilot navigator specification wristwatch. Longines supplied 50 watches as prototypes, but the MOD went with the IWC & JLC.


I came across a couple of interesting watches at an auction in Sheffield. A longines and JLC 6B/346 together. The Longines has a bit of a grail in the military watch world, this one however was changed from the normal specification.


I purchased the watches but realised that the longines even though pimped was am important watch and asked the auction house the story.


They said "It came from a house clearance ( sadly no children)of 2 local doctors, the lady Dr being the last to die, 2 years after her husband, the watch however was more likely to come from her family, who's name was Harrison. I've checked all the information and traced Harrison to daughter and am happy that this is the case.


The watch as stated has been altered and I don't know if the MOD did it or AVRO


My questions that need answering if possible...


Is there anyone alive that flew or served with Harrison from 1947 onwards especially anyone that flew/worked with him at AVRO


Harrison had two daughter's does any one know both first names, one was Pamela (Dr) Bailey but the other?


Did anyone see him wearing a large 40mm white dial wristwatch? is their an image of him wearing such a time piece?


The watch was more than likely issued in 1949 but was changed when? did avro make there own dials? and did they engrave the dial first then fill with paint?


I am not trying to add value through association but have a rare watch that wants to tell me a story
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/viktoria59/P1100109_zps2090ecdd.jpg (http://s508.photobucket.com/user/viktoria59/media/P1100109_zps2090ecdd.jpg.html)
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/viktoria59/P1100102_zps50edf282.jpg (http://s508.photobucket.com/user/viktoria59/media/P1100102_zps50edf282.jpg.html)

[sooty655]

Not clear from the pictures why you think there is an Avro connection.

[FantomZorbin]

I think you'll find that at least part of the numbers on the back refer to a contract number.

[Wander00]

6B/346 is I think the "section and ref" used by the blanket stackers

[STATSMAN]

Second daughter is Susan

[posso]

6B = Air Min Stores Ref number, for 'Aircraft Navigation Equipment' it would seem. Not sure what the 346 relates to.

[spekesoftly]

I've checked all the information and traced Harrison to daughter and am happy that this is the case.

Harrison had two daughter's does any one know both first names, one was Pamela (Dr) Bailey but the other?

Jimmy Harrison (CTP Avro) did have two daughters, but neither is called Pamela.


Obituary: Squadron Leader Jimmy Harrison | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/news/2007/may/03/guardianobituaries.secondworldwar)

From the Link:-

He married Maureen Phillips in 1940, and is survived by her and their two daughters, Susan and Jane.

· James Gordon Harrison, test pilot, born December 22 1918; died April 16 2007
As far as I'm aware, both daughters are still alive, and neither is or was a Doctor.

[milcollector]

Yes the Pamela was a dude thread, info I had was doctor, Sheffield married name Bailey. So I'm back on the search, but then came across a website called Heir Hound, this told me that Susan Elizabeth Bailey Died 13th August 2013 in Sheffield a spinster, born 22 may 1943


I'm sorry to spread this news for some who knew them. Is the other sister alive? did she have children? If so please inform them to contact Heir Hound.


Back to the watch in question and I have more questions.


Does anyone know (town/Parish)were James (jimmy) Harrison was born in 1918?


Is their anyone alive that knew him personally, that might remember the watch?


Did AVRO engrave their dials then paint the numbers in?


The questions that have been asked....The 6B is pilot/Navigator the 346 is a specification, astral navigation quality hacking movement. Basically the very best that the Swiss could make at the time, the 6B/346 mark 11 JLC has arguably the best movement every to come from Switzerland


The 172/49 number is, 172 is the military case number ref mark, the case is numbered 72 on the case back and lug. The 49 is the issued date 1949

[sooty655]

You still haven't explained why you think AVRO were involved with this watch.

[Simplythebeast]

Like Sooty, Im wondering where the Avro link comes from. I can see nothing on the images except the MOD mark.

[milcollector]

The watch is a military issued watch that has been changed from black dial to white dial also the case has been milled so the dial is now bigger than the original. This was either done by the MOD as it has an arrow on the dial, or if the watch is Jimmy Harrisons then maybe he had it altered when he was at AVRO, hence my questions about Avro dials and were they engraved first.


The military as far as I'm aware don't engrave their wristwatch dials, so hence the Avro question.


I'm just getting nowhere with searching for certification Birth/Death/Marriage


Is their anyone that knew Susan personally and was her marriage name Bailey?


I've found out that searching for information is full of twists and false leads and would like to apologies to the Harrison family if I'm going down the wrong route entirely.

[Bushfiva]

I know this is a gormless question, but I assume the 6B/346 was stamped in after arrival of at the stores location. It's very even, and doesn't seem to acknowledge that it's a curved surface, so I assume it's applied by machine set up for a horizontal surface rather than by a person. Isn't that a very deep stamp?

[dubbleyew eight]

a pilot's watch without a seconds hand???????

[FantomZorbin]

Bushfiva
I refer you to my earlier post. It is/was the practice to have 'section/ref' alphanumerics enscribed on items during manufacture - there is no way that this was put on the watch at unit level. It enabled back-tracking the item to the Commercial Department at AM/MoD if there was a need to rectify a contract non-compliance (amongst other things). NATO Section Reference numbers were then added, however it looks as if this post-dates your watch.

[Bushfiva]

Hi, thanks for the clarification. My only real comment is that the quality of the embossing seems so low.

[milcollector]

all markings were done by Longines as ordered my the MOD, Longines sent the watch to MOD stores from were it was logged and issued to personnel. Longines is one of the only old swiss makers that has a full paper trail on all its watches ordered.


Another example of the same case back
http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s325/viktoria59/346back_zpsf0d4376d.jpg (http://s508.photobucket.com/user/viktoria59/media/346back_zpsf0d4376d.jpg.html)


This one showing more wear.

[FantomZorbin]

the quality of the embossing seems so low

Yup! ... we invariably went to the lowest bidder 'Value for Money' not withstanding:ugh:

[Simplythebeast]

Why do you believe that the dial has been changed? The MOD did have some white dialled watches, for example the Omega 1943 watch 30T2 recently sold by
Corr Vintage Watches (interestingly numbered 6B/159) which can be seen on this page........

Corr Vintage Watches (http://www.corrvintagewatches.com/catalogue.php?nature=3)

[Simplythebeast]

Interesting article about white faced Mk 11 or spec 6B/346 watches....

WhiteDialMark11 (http://www.iwcforum.com/Articles/KoenigWhiteMk11.htm)

I have to agree that an aircrew watch without a second hand seems very odd, particularly when the 6B/346 spec is the RAF Specification for a navigators watch.

[milcollector]

is just missing...The watch dial and handset are very much Longines 6b/159 issued in 1940.