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nomorecatering
17th Jun 2014, 08:44
Porsche GT3 only comes with a flappy paddle gear box, same with all Ferrari models, even the 911 turbo is an auto.Pundits say the V12 is dead, the V8 is a dying breed. Manual gearboxes are becoming a rarity, even in high end sports cars. Now they are talking of hybrids.

have automakers lost the notion of what people want, something nice to drive with driver involvement, driving enjoyment. The satisfaction of negotiating a corner, balancing the throttle, heel and toe downshifts. When you buy a sports car, you don't care about fuel economy, you want fun.

Are we destined to be stuck with fancy electric corollas.

Pinky the pilot
17th Jun 2014, 08:48
If it `aint a manual I won`t have anything to do with it!:*

Currently looking at (lusting over:E) a very nice 5 year old Nissan GT-R.:ok:

Cacophonix
17th Jun 2014, 08:53
Are we destined to be stuck with fancy electric corollas.

All auto driven while we sit like mongs in the back and the world traffic corporation observes us from an international network of security and spy cameras and armed multinational police patrol our highways arbitrarily stopping and arresting those who show any evidence of autonomic thought or for crimes against road worthiness or the environment!

Caco

B Fraser
17th Jun 2014, 08:56
I have just taken a manual 911 turbo on a jolly to Le Mans which was rather fun. The Audis were boring and made a "whooshing" sound. Thank god for Aston Martin and Corvette who use real engines. I fear the future is hybrid.

Cacophonix
17th Jun 2014, 09:00
I have just taken a manual 911 turbo on a jolly to Le Mans

Watched a TV program with Brian Johnson thrashing a Porsche 917 around last night and thought that driving could not be more visceral than that...

Just listen to this, better than any poetry uttered by man...

Porsche 917K Flat-12 Pure Engine Sound - In Action on Track - YouTube

Caco

G-CPTN
17th Jun 2014, 09:07
The Dodge Viper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Viper) still has a manual gearbox.

sitigeltfel
17th Jun 2014, 09:10
If it `aint a manual I won`t have anything to do with it!:*

Currently looking at (lusting over:E) a very nice 5 year old Nissan GT-R.:ok:

Aren't they dual clutch semi-auto?

SpringHeeledJack
17th Jun 2014, 09:19
Le Mans - Steve McQueen's movie (only race sequences) 2 of 2 - YouTube

and for those who like to drive through the mountains, but watch out for large diggers….

ITALIAN JOB TITLES - YouTube



SHJ

Alloa Akbar
17th Jun 2014, 09:20
Might be a little cheapskate for you lot, but looming large on AA's radar right now is a nice Porsche 996 carrera.. Bucket loads of fun for under 10 grand!

I should add, I am a former company car driver (2011 Audi A6 S-LINE) who's got sick of the bland Exec saloons. My needs are

1. Capable of high miles.
2. Involving and fun to drive
3. Goes like the brown stuff off a new garden tool
4. Sounds like thunder
5. £10k or less..

Sounds impossible, but actually the possibilities are pretty good.. Porsche 996 or Boxster S, Merc 500SL V8, Audi RS4/6, Jaguar XKR.. Any other suggestions welcome!!

gruntie
17th Jun 2014, 10:15
Bucket loads of fun for under 10 grand!

There's a reason for that, unfortunately............time was, all Porsche engines were over-specced, tested before installation, and could be considered as bullet-proof as engines could be.

And then came the 996, water-cooling, and accountants. The 996 engine was as good as it had to be, and no more: time has proved they are susceptible to a couple of problems ('RMS' is one?) that are independent of mileage, service history, or condition, are not repairable, and require: a new engine.

I think the engine in a GT3 is essentially a water-cooled version of the old 964 engine, which you used to get in any 911. Now you have to pay extra for it.

Cacophonix
17th Jun 2014, 10:21
SpringHeeledJack

That intro to the Italian Job with Maserati and music and all is just pure perfection!

Caco

chuks
17th Jun 2014, 10:42
Or not, as the case may be. Our latest car is a BMW 3-series diesel with the 3-liter inline six from the 5-series, and the basic six-speed auto but with the optional paddles behind the steering wheel.

Last Sunday we were out on the Autobahn when one of those annoying types came up from behind on a speed-limited section to pass as we were holding close to the limit, but just then we came to an unrestricted section. Pedal to the metal, a sudden, automated downshift from 6th to 4th, big growling noises from the engine compartment: sorted. What is there to complain about in that? I was having fun; no idea what the tw*t coming up from behind was having, but that was not a matter of concern to me.

There will always be some way to have fun, even if you have to get out and look for that.

If you guys are having hot flashes over some stupid muscle-car with a big V8, well, try to remember the rest of it: handling like a tugboat; steering more vague than a hint from an estranged girlfriend; drum brakes that could not handle one stop from top speed without fading to nothingness; fuel consumption meant for gasoline costing about 30 US cents per gallon ....

Have a fresh look at the famous car chase from Bullitt to ask yourself just how hard that famous Mustang really is accelerating with its right rear tire going up in smoke. Hmm ... "not very" is the correct answer to that question.

I have been toying with the idea of hunting up an old Fiat Abarth, the one based on the Fiat 600. How would that be for cheap fun? Of course if you get into a collision with a tree or even a modern car, then they are going to have to use the damned thing as your coffin, I guess, since it's from a time when "crush zones" meant "the whole damned car." Viva Italia!

pvmw
17th Jun 2014, 10:48
That intro to the Italian Job with Maserati and music and all is just pure perfection
Maserati!!!!!!! MASERATI!!!!!!!

Lamborghini Muira, please.

Cacophonix
17th Jun 2014, 10:51
I now wear the cone of shame pvmw! :ok:

I don't know where my Maserati utterance came from. Some deep Freudian slit, (er I mean slip) I guess!

Caco

pvmw
17th Jun 2014, 10:56
Damn! I now can't get Matt Munro out of my head. I'm going to spend the rest of the afternoon humming the theme tune.

Pinky the pilot
17th Jun 2014, 10:58
Aren't they dual clutch semi-auto?

Possibly that is available; no idea really, but the one I saw was a six speed manual.

Alloa Akbar
17th Jun 2014, 11:17
Gruntie,

are not repairable, and require: a new engine.


A quick google search suggests that the RMS is not a big deal, has never been responsible for anything worse than a clutch failure and can be repaired for £399 or thereabouts by lots of places.

Lots of horror rumours, but the damage caused by RMS failure appears more folk lore than anything else.

Effluent Man
17th Jun 2014, 11:48
My best mate has a Bentley.The two door GT one with about 600bhp.It's a nice car but I really hate the fact that it's an auto.I wouldn't breathe a word of this because it would reek of envy,which it really isn't.So I can say it on an anonymous forum.It seems a waste of a hundred grand.

Ancient Mariner
17th Jun 2014, 12:20
Basil: We no longer have a boy sitting operating inlet and exhaust valves on a beam engine so why have manual gearboxes?

To me it is about mechanical pleasure, changing up and down on the sweet spot, controlling engine braking, slipping the clutch as required, heaven.
Would not want to drive anything else in winter here in Norway.
Have had my share out automatics, good for transport from A to B, but no fun.
Per

cockney steve
17th Jun 2014, 12:26
^^^^^ I ran an '81 Rolls Spirit for a while, 6.75 litres, enormous torque, so the 3-speed GM400-based box was adequate :p

Same car available in a multitude of Bentley versions("8" , Brooklands, Turbo R , etc.)
Great fun to sit at the lights with a boy-racer alongside in his Saxo with fart-can exhaust, black alloys and rubber-band tyres...boot to floor and leave him for dead:}
14 mpg no matter how you drove.....18 on a long trip if you cruised below 80.
Can be had for under 5K, little depreciation, plenty of cheap parts from numerous breakers. I put a full stainless exhaust under mine for ~£300 (6 boxes all interconnecting pipes, tailpipes.) For a big tank, they don't handle too bad, VERY easy to induce oversteer, RWD and that big, torquey, bulletproof lump! you don't need a road-limpet to have fun!

WRT Auto trans. the skill is in anticipation, lock the correct gear in and you're good to go...same with preselector, terrific fun , select correct gear, when you want to engage it, kick pedal for instant change..then move selector for next anticipated gear. :)

Standard Noise
17th Jun 2014, 12:45
I always knew I was different from the herd, I'm lucky enough to run the three cars I want to own, the Discovery does what I need and is manual which is better for a 4x4. The Caterham goes like stink which you would expect with the equivalent of 280hp/ton (1.8 K series tuned engine) and rarely gets out of 4th gear except on motorways/dual carriageways. The only problem I have with both of them is that the whole gear change thing is a PITA if you're in traffic or around town. That's where the joy of my 640d comes in, 313hp with a sports auto box which has 4 settings (from raffia sandaled tree hugger to OMFG I've turned off the traction control today is the day I die!) and can be played with as is, using the gear lever to up/downshift or the rather annoying flappy paddle things (which have yet to see serious use). My only niggle is the power steering which I think is a little too heavy.
Contrast that to my wife's 2L 204hp 1 series on a manual box which seems to run out of steam before I want to change gear. It's not a bad car by any means, like driving a go kart, but I hate dropping a gear on a hill then having to change gear mid overtake cos it's at the top of the rev range. Give me an auto anyday (preferably with a big engine!).

chuks
17th Jun 2014, 14:20
Check. Well, who wears those, nowadays?

God, but I feel old! I can remember driving an MGA with non-synchro 1st gear, and thinking, "Now, this is motoring!" "Blap-blap-Ka-runnch!" (Thinks to self: Must re-read chapter on double de-clutching!) This new BMW ... it is computer controlled, shifting up and down in a way that anticipates what you want, although, yes, you can use the lever or those paddles if you really must, and trigger a very quick downshift simply by mashing down on the accelerator. I am sure that it shifts much more quickly than I could do that manually.

There's some emission control feature on our other BMW, a 330Ci petrol-engine car. When you rev it, it "hangs" a bit, so that it's very difficult to get smooth down-shifts from it, and the up-shifts can be a bit rough as well, if you are rushing them. That might be me, though. We are doing a training course this weekend, when I want to ask the instructor about this.

Then there was working in the VW garage, mostly putting clutches in Beetles and Series 1 microbuses in 15 minutes flat, when a friend of the owner brought in a sort of tarted-up early '70's luxo version of the Pontiac GTO for the usual plugs and points and what-not, a welcome change from working on 40-horse VWs.

There was a new by-pass under construction nearby that was mostly clear of traffic, because it ended rather abruptly at a barrier shunting you back onto city streets. I chose that for a test drive to see what this muscle car would do. I got it up to something like 120 mph, but then had to get on the brakes because of the barrier. Brakes? Braaaakes! Fark!

They were there, sort of, at 120, but by the time I got down to about 50 they had gone missing in action: drum brakes, iron drums with little fins ... totally useless on a car like that. Dangerous, even.

Of course that bypass was not very far from the garage, a fact I had not thought through completely, and when I pulled up back there, there were the owner and my boss, just stood there waiting for me. I pulled up, parked, got out, and then a horrible wave of stench, like burning fur, rolled off the red-hot brakes, from the organic linings.

"What is that terrible smell?" asked the owner, as the boss and I looked off into the mean streets of Norwalk, Connecticut, out over the evening house-tops, for a clue as to what that might be. No, no idea, really ....

G-CPTN
17th Jun 2014, 14:27
Drove a Triumph TR2 (not mine) back in the mid 1960s.

Braking from maximum speed (whatever that was) had an initial effect, then when the drums got warm the pedal just disappeared (along with the retardation).

cattletruck
17th Jun 2014, 14:31
Do those flappy paddle boxes allow engine braking? I would think the computer wouldn't allow it.

MagnusP
17th Jun 2014, 14:46
Cattletruck, MrsP's Merc does in manual mode.

DevX
17th Jun 2014, 15:05
There's always the possibility (at the moment) of building your own car. Back in 2001 I built a Caterham 7 replica with a Honda Fireblade engine which was heaps of fun. No fancy electronics, just basic, unadulterated wind in the hair motoring. :ok:

P.S. If I actually had the option to upload images on this :mad: site I'd post a pic of my show winning example. :(

Kiltrash
17th Jun 2014, 15:38
I am sure my car is all green and carefull to the planet and the speed gatzos would stop you anyhow, but for my retirement work bought me a track day and although the Ferrari's, Astons and Lambos were exiting with a small ish e as you knew the computers if not the instructor with the additional STOP pedal would not let you crash

However when they let me have the Ariel Atom, basically the instruction was to go faster than fast, I would not be able to break it and if in trouble use the HUGE run off, this was at Bruntingthorpe. Took me back to the 60's, no power steering, no computers no Brakes no Auto no Police...............

Wife was worried, especially as I have found my mid life crisis car, Children are worried as their inheritance has vanished

Jimmy Macintosh
17th Jun 2014, 15:45
The Aston Martin Vantage with fuse 22 removed sounds phenomenal. It still comes with a manual gearbox.

Alloa Akbar
17th Jun 2014, 16:08
Thanks for the PM's chaps, your advice is much appreciated. :ok:

Dushan
17th Jun 2014, 16:35
Loads of fun for ~$5,000...



http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/dushan_divjak/DSC_1235.jpg (http://s256.photobucket.com/user/dushan_divjak/media/DSC_1235.jpg.html)

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/dushan_divjak/bb4668d1-f0cd-475d-befa-98344201cf91_zpsabea3ed2.jpg?t=1403023063

Shaggy Sheep Driver
17th Jun 2014, 17:14
Strap your arse into one of these:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b132/GZK6NK/DSC02382cr1res.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/GZK6NK/media/DSC02382cr1res.jpg.html)

Cheap as chips to buy and run, absolute reliability; not the fastest sports car but fast enough, and one of the best handling. No car offers more fun per buck.

Dushan
17th Jun 2014, 17:17
If you guys are having hot flashes over some stupid muscle-car with a big V8, well, try to remember the rest of it: handling like a tugboat; steering more vague than a hint from an estranged girlfriend; drum brakes that could not handle one stop from top speed without fading to nothingness; fuel consumption meant for gasoline costing about 30 US cents per gallon ....


I have been toying with the idea of hunting up an old Fiat Abarth, the one based on the Fiat 600. How would that be for cheap fun? Of course if you get into a collision with a tree or even a modern car, then they are going to have to use the damned thing as your coffin, I guess, since it's from a time when "crush zones" meant "the whole damned car." Viva Italia!


Not true on the first part.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/dushan_divjak/37e4d383-6a5f-4022-94d8-8412ad9422cd_zps79a792c2.jpg?t=1403025339


:ok: for the Fiat 600 Abarth :ok:

FakePilot
17th Jun 2014, 17:56
If a computer does it for you it will be done wrong. :=

ian16th
17th Jun 2014, 18:15
G-CPTN

The Dodge Viper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Viper) still has a manual gearbox.

I do believe that since FIAT bought Chrysler the Viper is no more.

Octane
17th Jun 2014, 18:39
My budget is somewhat less, well a lot less than some of the posters here.

However!

I've recently finished rebuilding my 1967 Mini Deluxe from the ground up. Its err, slightly modified, in fact highly modified come to think of it. About the only thing original is the body shell. All the good gear; big engine, close ratio g/box, fully adjustable suspension, weber carby etc.
Its quick in a straight line but not really fast by modern standards. However the thing is absolutely astounding around corners. I recently drove the Trans Flores Highway in Flores, Indonesia from east to west (I've driven Melbourne Australia to Bali - a midlife crisis thing). It's a good road but windy and mountainous with plenty of climbing 1st gear corners. Exhililerating to say the least. Its a car that just makes driving fun, like, I have a smile on my face after a drive.
The car only has 2 fuses so I couldn't pull fuse 22 but I guess I've done the equivalent thing - From Melbourne to Bali the car has behaved flawlessly, not even a puncture. However I have surgically removed the muffler twice on bad roads, I mean really really bad roads, the sort where you have to descend into potholes:ooh:! So, I tossed the muffler and had a 'hotdog' or resonator welded in its place. Most gratifying result, much better ground clearance, definitely more go and a deeper, more grunty exhaust growl. Probably, well, most likely illegal in Oz noise wise but who cares, I'm in Indonesia!
James May is on record saying you haven't lived if you haven't driven a Mini. Bravo that man!! Bang for buck with a bit of nostalgia and a machine that is so simple to repair if something does go wrong, I think its hard to beat...

Cheers

Octane

ian16th
17th Jun 2014, 19:25
James May is on record saying you haven't lived if you haven't driven a Mini

I've never driven one.

But I did have an Imp Sport :ok:

At the time of purchase, I lived in the Forest of Dean, real rally territory :ok::ok:

500N
17th Jun 2014, 19:30
"I mean really really bad roads, the sort where you have to descend into potholes"

Sounds like the road from Melbourne to Darwin not 40 years ago and what some major roads in Australia are still like :O

Good effort though going from Melbourne to Bali :ok:

Ancient Mariner
17th Jun 2014, 20:05
Had a Mini once in the early 70'es, well used it was and short on money I was.
Remember driving down a very long, steep hill close to the Swedish border. Rain pissing down and tiny wipers doing their job when suddenly the left one exited the car, arm and all. One minute later the right one left in the opposite direction. Two splined axle stubs was all that was left turning. Much good they did. Mini scrapped the next week. Not my best British motor, come to think of it neither of them, Mini, Hillmans and LR Discos were. :(
Per

chuks
17th Jun 2014, 20:33
Our BMW downshifts even in automatic mode. It doesn't feel "slushy" at all; the shifts are quite crisp and there's not much feel of "coasting" either. I guess there's a pretty smart little computer looking after all of this.

The paddles and stick will let you do whatever you want within reason: no over-revving by down-shifting, and a refusal to allow manual selection of a higher gear than it wants you to use when up-shifting.

One problem is that these modern cars are so good that you can not get very close to their limits on normal roads. I have a training session scheduled for this Sunday with the ADAC at the convention grounds in Hannover. It only costs about 185 euros per person for a full day, and I am going with our two children and three cars. The son gets stuck with his Toyota RAV-4, but I hope to swap back and forth with my daughter so that we both can use our newer 330D with X-drive and automatic, but also our much older 330Ci with a petrol engine and a 5-speed manual transmission.

I particularly want to see what the newer car can do on the skid pad. The 330Ci is pretty hopeless on the wet steel plates used to simulate ice; a middle-aged lady in a Pajero was much faster than me the last time I tried that.

AtomKraft
18th Jun 2014, 02:34
I have a Sunbeam Tiger. Bleak is not an appropriate word to use in relation to a tigger!

As long as it's possible to buy large quantities of petrol, it will be hard to stop the fun. :ok:

ruddman
18th Jun 2014, 04:05
Bah! Who needs all theses pretty boy sports cars. Give me a orange '69 Dodge Charger painted orange. :ok:

jolihokistix
18th Jun 2014, 04:13
Pinky, "Possibly that is available; no idea really, but the one I saw was a six speed manual."

The one you saw would have been an R34 GTR Skyline, with the Getrag 6-speed box. They stopped making them back in 2001, I believe. (I have one)

The later recent-style GTRs from 2008 all have semi-auto paddle shifts.

If you want a manual one that you can take back to the USA, you will have to find a nice example of an R32 GTR, and wait until 2017 to import, as US law forbids import and ownership of R32, R33 and R34s under 25 years old.

Pinky the pilot
18th Jun 2014, 04:20
that you can take back to the USA

Try Australia!!!!!!!!:rolleyes::*

And the GT-R concerned is H20, which I`m told makes it six years old.

BOING
18th Jun 2014, 04:31
All this talk about sportscars is so childish.
Do as I do and drive a Sprinter van.
Well, until I get my BMW powered Triumph Spitfire on the road in a couple of months.:D:D

jolihokistix
18th Jun 2014, 05:14
Pinky "And the GT-R concerned is H20, which I`m told makes it six years old."

Your use of the word 'six-speed' made me think USA. Apologies. Yes, the one you saw would be semi-auto with paddles on the steering wheel, as someone has said. Lovely car though, whichever way you cut the cake. :ok:

Pinky the pilot
18th Jun 2014, 06:13
Yes, the one you saw would be semi-auto with paddles on the steering wheel, as someone has said. Lovely car though, whichever way you cut the cake.

jolihokistix; It is listed in the advertisement in the used car book as having manual transmission! The letters MT appear at the bottom of the photo along with all options etc.

And just to make it clear, I`m Aussie born and raised!:D

anotherthing
18th Jun 2014, 07:53
GT-R is a nice car to drive though fairly impractical. As a toy tho.... :)

The only thing I would advise before buying one is to check out the servicing schedule (evry 6k miles I think) and costs... astronomical... in the Ferrari range.

I believe each gearbox is individually made to the car... very expensive to change.

Also a lot of them will have been ragged to pieces by previous owners, understandable due to amazing performance.

I know that you can get Porsches checked out by a main dealer to ensure they haven't been red-lined or abused... a simple check trough the engine management system... worth doing on a GT-R if possible if buying privately, though I would hope that a Nissan dealer would check before taking the car into stock... I know Porsche do

sms777
18th Jun 2014, 09:28
I go with ruddman. Give me a '69 Dodge Charger anyday so I can park it next to my '70 426 Hemi Dodge Challenger.
Mopar or no car......:)

Hello Pinky......my Hemi Challenger is five speed manual btw. TKO 600, I am sure you know what that means. :ok:

RedhillPhil
18th Jun 2014, 10:15
I have a Sunbeam Tiger. Bleak is not an appropriate word to use in relation to a tigger!

As long as it's possible to buy large quantities of petrol, it will be hard to stop the fun. :ok:


Bloke over the road from me has an orangey-red one. best thing on a sunny Sunday is hearing it go snarling by. You can keep yer Cobras.

Cacophonix
18th Jun 2014, 10:22
Reading between the lines here I think two main themes emerge viz. although most of us would like to enjoy the unalloyed thrill/fright of taking an AC Cobra (for example) for a spin we still like the simple easy technological facility of the modern car that gets us from A to B in comfort, in some style and often with more guts and speed than the muscle cars of our dreams.

My nightmare is that driving will become so bureaucratic that the older models will simply be banned or become too costly to run and end up as museum pieces and part of a slowly fading dream.

Caco

sms777
18th Jun 2014, 10:52
Not in our lifetime Caco.........:hmm:

sitigeltfel
18th Jun 2014, 11:09
costs... astronomical... in the Ferrari range

I wonder how much this will cost to 'buff' out?

a52Zt5_9rrY

jolihokistix
18th Jun 2014, 11:22
Yup, a lot of those Ferraris are bum heavy.

G-CPTN
18th Jun 2014, 11:22
What on Earth happened? (with the Ferrari - low-speed, dry road . . . ) :confused:

Alloa Akbar
18th Jun 2014, 12:04
Sand on the road, heavy on the throttle / light on talent ---> Time+Space+Ideas= 0. You are fcuked matey.

:ok:

onetrack
18th Jun 2014, 12:45
This is what truly pleasurable motoring means to me. :)

You'll never be able to restore your plastic electronic Beemeraudi in 2062.

The current crop have as much character as a box of cornflakes.

http://oi57.tinypic.com/23sact4.jpg

chuks
18th Jun 2014, 19:36
A 1932 Chevrolet has more character than a BMW 330, say? If you just want to putter around town on a sunny day, waving to folks, well, yes, perhaps ....

It's always fun to experience old cars, to see how a previous generation solved problems such as driving in rain, yet this 1932 Chevrolet appears to have just one lonely windscreen wiper, and very probably one worked by hand. Even if this car has a vacuum motor for the wiper, well, that's still insufficient by modern standards, unless we are speaking of something like that modern three-wheeler from India, the Bajaj. (You want a cruel laugh, get a look at some poor bugger driving a Bajaj in an African rainstorm, frantically working the wiper by hand on his characterful little motorized deathtrap.)

Check back with me in 2062, when I am 115 years old, to see if I am having problems with my 48 year-old BMW. I don't see this happening, somehow, and I don't think that will be because my BMW will still be running ....

That might be a bleak future for this car enthusiast, come to think of it, but there you are. Of course with all the advances in medical science, perhaps I will be still around, more prosthesis than man, moaning about all these characterless modern cars that run on sunlight and only sound like a Ferrari 365 Daytona. "Why, in my day, cars had fuel tanks ...."

"What was 'fuel,' Great-grandfather?"

The Flying Pram
18th Jun 2014, 19:54
Drum brakes that could not handle one stop from top speed without fading to nothingnessThat takes me back - to mothers 1968 Mk 1 Mini, which I thrashed about as a teenager. One hard application of the brakes at its top speed of ~80mph and by 40 they faded. Nothing concentrates the mind more than having to take your foot OFF the brake pedal, when you really want to press harder :eek: It only had synchro on 2nd, 3rd & 4th, so I soon taught myself how to double de-clutch. But as others have said, the Mini's pin sharp steering and handling would always put a smile on my face.

Do as I do and drive a Sprinter vanJust don't pull into a sloping cul-de-sac in the snow. A parcel delivery driver did outside here a few winters back, tried to turn round and got stuck. Yours truly pulled him out, and all the way up the adjacent hill - with my 1989 4x4 Fiat Panda. 45 bhp & 17cwt with over 2 tons on the back - I suspect he didn't tell his mates about it...

JFZ90
19th Jun 2014, 00:07
A quick google search suggests that the RMS is not a big deal, has never been responsible for anything worse than a clutch failure and can be repaired for £399 or thereabouts by lots of places.

Lots of horror rumours, but the damage caused by RMS failure appears more folk lore than anything else.

Alloa, if you're after a 911/boxster, note that on water cooled 996/997 or 986/7 engines, you are right that the RMS leak issues are not particularly serious.

However the problems with IMS failures and more recently cylinder boring and D-chunk failures are much more serious. Have are search on the Hartech website.

There doesn't seem to be consensus on frequency, but around 5-10% seems ballpark, and exchange/repair engine options are £7k up. So go in with your eyes open.

The 996 turbo doesn't have these weaknesses, but can create big bills in other ways. That said they will never be better value - buy now while they are available for low 20s.

tdracer
19th Jun 2014, 03:03
I thought manuals were still fairly common on the other side of the pond? Every rental car I've had in the UK or Europe was a manual (in the case of the UK, having to shift with my left hand resulted in many missed shifts :uhoh:). OTOH, you'd have to look long and hard to find a rental here with a manual.


Semi-automatics are showing in the high performance cars for a simple reason - they've figured out how to make them quicker than a manual.:ok:


Back in college I had a 1967 Pontiac Lemans - basically a GTO without the engine. It would do 120 mph without raising a sweat, but the brakes were crap - driving in the mountains could be a challenge and required specific techniques (you did not, ever, want to ride the brakes on a long downhill:sad:). Loved that car though.


We currently have four vehicles in the household - S2000 (for the summer), BMW328xi (rest of the year), Mazda 3 (wife), and a full size Ford van. All are automatics save the S2000 (I thought about a manual in the BMW, but the wife insisted on the auto so she could drive it). What is really interesting is the similarity in rated horsepower, barely 10% difference between three dramatically different engines - the Ford 4.6 liter V-8 (255 hp), S2000 2.0 liter 4 (240 hp), and BMW 3.0 straight six (230 hp). Really different torque and power curves though :E.

Bull at a Gate
19th Jun 2014, 04:11
There has been some discussion in this thread about paddles shifts vs manuals vs automatics. In my view it is impossible to say that one type of transmission is always going to be better than any other.

I currently drive a double clutch paddle shift. Mrs Bull drives a single clutch paddle shift. My last car was a manual and there are times I miss it. Often enough, in my car, when I am trying to turn in front of oncoming cars and I shift down to make it though the narrow gap, the computer says "really - let me think about that and try a few gears for you to see which is best" leaving me SLOWLY advancing across the intersection before the computer makes up its mind and gives me a gear I can use.

This happens less often in Mrs Bull's car, but trying to park her car is a very jerky experience as the computer decides to put the clutch in, then out, then in, and so on.

But, and this is why we love our cars, when we want to accelerate up through the gears with a long road ahead of us, then there is nothing like the snappy gear changes which a paddle shift is capable of. The angels sing, the sun shines, a few hundred angry horses make their presence felt, and all is right with the world.

crippen
19th Jun 2014, 06:21
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/673856831/250cc_20HP_Racing_font_b_go_b.jpg

over 120 kph,arse 1 cm from floor,heart racing stuff. :ok: about 200 hp per tonne power to weight ratio.

chuks
19th Jun 2014, 09:01
We now have two rather similar BMWs, a 2002 330Ci, and a 2012 330D Touring. The thing is, both are silver in color, both have black interiors, both have similar cockpit layouts, but the older car has a 5-speed manual, while the newer car has a 6-speed automatic ... you can see where this one is going, I think.

I have got over it now, but at first I was clomping down on the brake pedal in the newer car, taking it for the clutch, or trying to shift gears and putting the transmission into manual shift mode or else neutral.

Then, having adjusted to the newer car, I would get in the older one and forget to de-clutch coming to a stop, wondering why the engine had stalled.

onetrack
19th Jun 2014, 11:03
A 1932 Chevrolet has more character than a BMW 330, say? If you just want to putter around town on a sunny day, waving to folks, well, yes, perhaps ....What a lot of tripe! You're confusing a '32 Chev with a Model T.
A '32 Chev in good nick will easily achieve 70mph and cruise at 65 mph.
Mind, the stopping ability isn't quite up to a current Beemer, I'll give you that.

Then again, brakes on any GM vehicle built before they were forced to fit disc brakes, were always known as "go faster" brakes!
You put your foot on the brake, and you promptly went faster!

cattletruck
19th Jun 2014, 13:26
I'm not really a fan of the modern Mercedes but pulled up behind a nice looking one with the numbers E65 AMG on the tail.

So I looked it up on the nerdy net to see what they got and how much a second hand one sells for. Turns out it is a fitted with a nice bit of kit, still very pricey at 4 years old (about $100K) but most of them have barely been driven and have very low kilometers. I certainly can't see much enthusiasm in them by their owners.

Maybe this confirmed I'm looking at the wrong time period, because I wouldn't mind owning a vintage Nazi staff car.

chuks
19th Jun 2014, 13:51
I think I know the difference between a Model T and a 1932 Chevrolet, thank you very much!

You are not seriously recommending the use of a 1932 Chevrolet as day-to-day transport, are you? Here in Germany you can do 100 km/h (62 mph) just on a B road, so that you might feel a bit lost out on the Autobahn. Too, what would you expect to do when it rains or snows?

I think that it is fair to expect to see more old cars like this Chevrolet in museums in 50 years; they are far more interesting as mechanical objects than a modern car such as our BMW 330D. When it comes to utility, though, getting from A to B in safety and comfort, then it's a matter of "no contest" between the modern BMW and any car from 1932.

This reminds me of the way that lovers of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle react whenever a road test points out some of the short-comings of its archaic design. Then it's that the Harley is a life-style or a philosophy or something like that, to put it on a plane above that of being what it started out as: a means of transport. If this were not so, that these old designs are necessarily of limited use today, then we would still be flying around in Douglas DC-3s, I think.

If you want a hot-rod AMG Merc, an Audi RS, or a BMW M5 or M3, then you will find that they can be quite cheap here in Germany. Not "cheap" cheap in the way that you can pick up an old beater of a Golf, say, but you can find one of these top model supercars for about 25% of what they cost new. They have frightening fuel consumption and, often, very high maintenance costs, so that they are the first thing to go when Mr Boy Racer marries and settles down. That, or else they get traded in on the latest-latest supercar.

One neighbor in the older part of town has an AMG 6.3 CLS. I was working in my shed one day when there was this mechanical eruption next door, a bass note "blub-blub-blub" you could feel in your chest, even. I went around to see what the fuss was, and there he was with his new toy, this big white monster of a car with its twin-turbo V8.

I watched him drive off down the street, zoned for 30 km/h (18.6 mph), in this thing built to run at 300 km/h (if you satisfy some conditions that allow the lifting of the usual limit of 250 km/h), thinking, "Well, if it makes you happy .... "

Dushan
19th Jun 2014, 14:17
I watched him drive off down the street, zoned for 30 km/h (18.6 mph), in this thing built to run at 300 km/h (if you satisfy some conditions that allow the lifting of the usual limit of 250 km/h), thinking, "Well, if it makes you happy .... "

What conditions are those? The paying of a small sum to your local car hacker who zaps the EPROM?

Alloa Akbar
19th Jun 2014, 14:24
Yes if you want the sound of thunder and tyre shredding power there are many variants of AMG and Brabus Mercs around for Ford Fiesta money.. curiously with Merc, even the older ones had all the mod cons we expect on shiny new rep-mobiles.. Sat Nav, power seats etc.

The thing I love about some of the older high powered RS's, M's, AMG's and the Porkers is that as accessible as they may be to purchase, you average boy racer can't afford to run them.. Well, that and the raw power and limted electronic driver aids :ok:

vulcanised
19th Jun 2014, 14:30
Nissan Skyline is the modest pinnacle of my ambition.

Alloa Akbar
19th Jun 2014, 15:15
Vulcanised - Trouble is most of them have been thrashed to death.. bit like the Sierra Cosworths in the 90's.

AtomKraft
19th Jun 2014, 16:43
I'd like to recommend the Audi S8 to fellow petrolheads.

Not the current 'D4' model, but either the D3 or it's predecessor, the D2- the one you saw in 'Ronin'.

I have a D2, they built them until about 2002.

These cars are cheap to buy and have many enthusiastic owners. They were expensive new, I think mine was about £75,000 when new, but I paid £3450.

Fuel is a pita, as it only gets about 23mpg, and it does cost a fair bit to maintain, but the A8 owners club is run by a company that parts the cars out, and much is available cheaply secondhand. Even oem parts are becoming cheaper as the cars get older.
The S8 has about 360bhp, and is a delight to drive. The entire car, including bodyshell and suspension, engine, 4wd trans etc is aluminium. They even have double glazing.

Utterly wonderful cars. :ok:

Back Pressure
20th Jun 2014, 04:37
I've had a Mk7 Golf GTI for a few months now. 6 speed manual. 2.0L 162Kw 350Nm.

This car has stunning acceleration, and the brakes are even more impressive. I love it.

Get one !!