Liquid inconsistency

[Rwy in Sight]

Yesterday I went through the security at the most south-easterly airport of the EU and either for not being told or for not hearing clearly, I did not remove the "evidence" bag (containing a small toothpaste, a 90ml shave foam and a 50 ml deodorant) from my cabin luggage.

The young police officer after the X-Ray asked me to open my cabin trolley and when she saw the plastic bag she announced that I can't take with me the shaving foam and the deodorant - stating that I should have removed the plastic bag and presented it separately in the X-Ray. She was adamant, I asked to see her supervisor who just stated he was busy elsewhere and left us to argue. I asked her either to talk to her boss or to have her reasoning in writing. Finally an old guy, with an impressive moustache, appeared explaining that I should have removed the bag and it is clearly stated on the regulation. I pointed out that in the last three month I have go few other airports which completely ignored the liquid bag, inspect it and toss it back in my trolley etc.

Finally I was allowed to take all the liquids but I am still annoyed that the framework about computers and liquids is not really clear and it can cost money and time to travellers.

[mad_jock]

Finally I was allowed to take all the liquids but I am still annoyed that the framework about computers and liquids is not really clear and it can cost money and time to travellers

You are taking the piss aren't you?

Its clear everywhere in the EU take your fluids out in there little bag and computer.

And has been so for years. Now if some airports just throw them back in that's up to them. But if you always presume that you have to you will never be upset.

[S.o.S.]

mad_jock
There is no need to swear at other forum users. You could have asked the question and given your view without that.

Notice given.

[Rwy in Sight]

SoS thanks for your input.

mad_jock I am serious. I thought I was clear on my comments and your post does not answer my point. In various airports around Europe the way liquids computers belts and shoes are handled (either in the bag or on the person or through the X-Ray scanner). And I was frustrated the way the police officer instead of asking for a re-screen she choose to keep the shaving gel and the deodorant.

[easyflyer83]

I must admit, I had the same reaction as mad_jock.

I think pretty much every airport I use/used has stated clearly the rules on liquids. To attempt to take them off you purely, for not taking them out of your carry on when putting luggage through the x-Ray, is harsh but why don't you do yourself a favour and take out your liquids like the rest of us.

[Gibon2]

To attempt to take them off you purely, for not taking them out of your carry on when putting luggage through the x-Ray, is harsh

Harsh? It's completely out of order. Either the liquids are permitted, or they are not. If someone, for whatever reason, fails to follow the correct procedure for screening, all that should happen is that the screening is repeated correctly.

why don't you do yourself a favour and take out your liquids like the rest of us

I agree that this is the safest course. But like the OP, I haven't bothered to take the plastic sample bag out at European (including UK) airports for at least 2 years - and not once has it been questioned, even when my bag has been opened and checked for some other reason. So despite what the signs and "rules" say, it clearly isn't actually required at all.

[ExXB]

The security guys argue that being inconsistent is a very good thing ™. It ensures that the black hats won't know what to expect, even from one journey to the next.

I suppose, in the big security theatre we all go through, that does make a certain amount of sense. However it is all theatre.

Runway in Sight. Was it really a police officer? Or an employee of the security company in a fancy uniform. I can't recall ever seeing the civil police doing this anywhere.

[mad_jock]

there is standard rules about the carriage of liquids etc. Which in theory should be EU wide and are defined at EU level in law.

If you always follow those rules there is nothing that can be done to you.

If you then are deemed not have followed those rules you are now into national laws and local by laws.


Some country's have confiscation laws on breaking the rules and others don't. In theory some could take your laptop as well. Greece being one of them.

Some country's don't as such have them but locally there have been a set of local laws passed which are in addition to the national ones. Heathrow for example has quite a few.

now the zeal which individual airports enforce those rules is dependant on how lazy the locals are and how hard the national authority beats them with a stick.

In essence once you are in breach of the EU wide security rules then you at the whim of the locals.

It matters not what you say or what your previous experience has been even in the same country they have you and you have zero options.


Best thing is just to always do the fluids in the bag and the laptop out what ever the signs or instructions are. I am pretty sure in some of the more corrupt country's the confiscation of aftershave etc is an income source for the security. If you don't give them the chance they can't do it.

There is no way ever you are going to get a EU wide set of standards we can't even get it standardised in one country eg the UK we don't even have it between airports in the same group eg BAA.

And if you think you have it bad as a pax the crew have it even worse mainly because we have to deal with these types sometimes 2-3 times a day in 2-3 different airports and even country's.

Go to france and they will be more than happy with me taking 10 ltrs of local wine through crew security. Go to Stansted and they will take your sandwich off you because it has mayo on it.

In fact I have just cleaned my crew bag out and found a bottle of decongestant in one of the pockets. Thinking back it must have been in there over a year if not two unused. Its been through hundreds of security checks not a single one has picked it up.

the only defence you have against these idiots is to put your stuff in the bag every time and get your electronic devices out and I mean all of them. Don't start arguing the toss if a kindle ebook is a laptop or not because if they decide it is, that's what it is.

It doesn't help some of these idiots seem to get great job satisfaction with provoking a pax/crew into an argument. If you don't kick off quite quickly they get bored and let you on your way then as crew they don't bother you again because your boring.

Belts on belts off, shoes on shoes off guaranteed they will want the one that's opposite to what you have done. They are just small minded low educated idiots who are in a position of power.

EXxb it depends a lot on the country and the airport even within country. I have 2 airports which the local bobby turns up and runs the security check. One of them doesn't speak a word of English but is very nice. She is a about 5' in every direction but any drunks turn up and they better behave cause she will have them. I have seen one taken from the building by the ear. Also some country's its a branch of the police force. And some its the military. To be honest I prefer the military ones because even though the idiots on the front are thick they usually have a boss who can discuss things in an adult manner. Was even arrested by one of these types and then sat for a very pleasant 30mins drinking tea in his airconditioned office also drinking water having a bite to eat etc in the middle of Ramadan during day light hours before getting escorted to the aircraft in his personal wheels. The crime was the FO having google maps with a pic of the airport on his mobile. Exactly the same pic as the Major had on his iPhone.

[cjhants]

4 of us going through LGW earlier this month, with just hand luggage for a weekend away. We put our liquids in bags at home and had 2 liquid bags each. When we got to the counter before security, liquid bags in hand, the person who checks the boarding cards let 3 of us through, but insisted the fourth fitted all the liquids into 1 bag. He said it "was the rules", and challenged to tell where these rules were posted just told the lady if she didnt comply, she could not go through. So she had to stuff it all into one overflowing bag to satisfy security.

Is there anything posted to say just one liquid bag? I certainly have not been stopped for this anywhere before.

[mad_jock]

Its one bag of 1 ltr capacity. I think. And you must be able to seal the top.

[Rwy in Sight]

ExXB,

She was a police officer as were her two supervisor one to try to get away and the one giving the solution. mad_jock is right about talking to a supervisor.

And I still think that I was covering most of what the law requires (size and special "evidence" bag) and I am not sure computers and liquids in/out of bag are covered by the law/regulations. My only objection is that she did not consider a re screening just the confiscation. And as some one here on the PPRuNe have said before even if the rules where signed by the head of aviation security in the EU people at the security will still find some exceptions.

[mad_jock]

The out of the bag is covered.

What happens if you don't is covered by national law not eu

[S.o.S.]

Thanks mad_jock for your very interesting compendium of your experiences in the field (Or should that be on the fields?) in post #8. Makes me glad to be pax.

[mad_jock]

its not all bad, getting patted down by a rather tasty Scandinavian lady with big boobs is a bit of a perk even if you can't fully appreciate it at 4 am.

It does seem to be though the further south in Europe you go the more it tends towards chaos and unpredictability of application of what ever rules they think are in operation.

Don't mess around in Greece especially with anything in your hand that appears to be a camera. They will lift you as a spy.

[Rush2112]

Going through CDG last month and I had the usual toothpaste, mini bottle of Bay Rum AS in the plakky bag and the security lady took all 5 items out, and put in an identical plakky bag, giving me back my now empty bag. Seemed a bit of a waste of time and bags but I have given up wondering.

[M-ONGO]

Yesterday I went through the security at the most south-easterly airport of the EU and either for not being told or for not hearing clearly, I did not remove the "evidence" bag (containing a small toothpaste, a 90ml shave foam and a 50 ml deodorant) from my cabin luggage.

Larnaka? The Police don't usually do the screening there - G4S do. The cops are there as a backup and to drink coffee and oggle chicks. G4 are a real useless bunch, though.

[Hotel Tango]

Don't mess around in Greece especially with anything in your hand that appears to be a camera. They will lift you as a spy.

Well, unless I've misunderstood you, if you're holding a camera or cameraphone in your hand inside the security area I would say they are quite rightly within their rights. The same restriction applies in all countries including the UK too. If your camera is inside your carry-on no problem whatsoever. Play by the rules and you'll be fine.

[iggie]

So are Rwy in Sight, Gibon2, mad jock and cjhants now adhering to the published rules?

[mad_jock]

I always do but not the uk ones because everywhere else the liquid rules don't apply to crew.

If i am travelling as pax I take the electronics out and tube of toothpaste in the sealed bag.

[Rwy in Sight]

M-ONGO,

It is Larnaca indeed. The G4S were there handing out plastic bags but the young lady who decided to confiscate my stuff was wearing a police uniform as was the senior officer who decided to let me have my deodorant and shaving cream. I bet he was silently c*^sing both her and me for making such a fuss.

mad_jock you are living my dream of being patted of such a lady. And let's not start the question is electronics and shoes should be on or off.

[Dont Hang Up]

The security guys argue that being inconsistent is a very good thing ™. It ensures that the black hats won't know what to expect, even from one journey to the next.

That is the thing that gets to me with airport security - the idea that keeping the normal punter harassed and confused by the constant variations is good because it may have some vague deterrent effect on an actual terrorist.

Only lousy security systems rely on obfuscation to hide their inadequacies.

[CYTN]

I HAD A STEAK PIE AT EDINBURGH AIRPORT - who has the steak pie ? came the call as it left the scanner - me :) . TOO MUCH LIQUID IN THAT :uhoh: came the reply . So pie got confiscated . I went hungry and some family in Bathgate treated themselves to my dinner .

[M-ONGO]

M-ONGO,

It is Larnaca indeed. The G4S were there handing out plastic bags but the young lady who decided to confiscate my stuff was wearing a police uniform as was the senior officer who decided to let me have my deodorant and shaving cream. I bet he was silently c*^sing both her and me for making such a fuss.


I was Larnaca based for 5 years. The security there is indeed a shambles. Pafos is a much friendlier airport (from both a crew and passenger viewpoint) and the nicer side of the island.

[Gibon2]

So are Rwy in Sight, Gibon2, mad jock and cjhants now adhering to the published rules?

Just back from flying Geneva-Munich-Ankara and return. Left my toothpaste, etc, inside my bag, as I generally do now unless explicitly requested to take them out. Nobody at any of the three airports made any objection. At Ankara, they inspected my sponge-bag because my razor handle had showed up on the x-ray (often happens - it's quite heavy metal and looks vaguely suspicious), but they made no remark on the unextracted toothpaste and deodorant.