Best MCC + JOC (on 737 preferably) anywhere in Europe

[Bearcat F8F]

Hi everyone,

I've read a whole bunch of MCC threads on this forum and practically all of them suggest either CRM or Simtech or European Skybus. There is hardly any info/ feedback on MCC providers outside of the UK.

Out of the 3, the only one that appeals to me is European Skybus but they have recently been bought over by somebody else and I'm not sure if they offer the MCC any more.

The other two, I'm not interested in because their sims are not representative of real aircraft. And yes I know that everyone will say its not important and that the MCC is for crew cooperation etc etc but I just have a personal thing against flying a generic sim. It doesn't feel right. Even sitting in one doesn't feel right.

Preferably, I would like a 737 sim for both MCC and JOC. There is a provider called Cockpit4U in Berlin. They offer an MCC plus JOC on a full 737NG sim at a reasonable price. The only feedback I can find is about their TR and views are mixed and either way not really to do with the MCC or JOC courses so if anyone has anything to say about them please feel free to share.

There seems to be a very posh MCC plus JOC provider in the UK called Virtual Aviation. Their 737NG sim looks amazing but the price is a complete rip off @ £5500!

Cockpit4U do the MCC and JOC on the 737NG for £2800 to £3300 depending on the package.

What is the 737-400 MCC and JOC like with Oxford Aviation Aacademy?

Any other suggestions?

[B737900er]

There is a new JOC provider in Scotland. Airliner 1.
its 5 days and the price is very cheap but unfortunately don't provide MCC yet.

[pjdj777]

European Skybus closed down last year, the sims were moved to Cardiff Aviation at Cardiff Airport.

The 747-400 is in commission now and MCC/JOC is available.

[Bearcat F8F]

Airliner1 looks very interesting indeed. Their sim looks sort of strange though... Almost like its inside a classroom... :suspect:

Good to know the old Skybus sim is back up and running.


So is it possible to do the JOC before you do the MCC?

[pjdj777]

The Cardiff Aviation MCC/JOC is a combined course. I don't know about the other places.

[Bearcat F8F]

Thanks pjdj777. Have you got any experience with them after they have been acquired by Cardiff Aviation? Is it still the same quality of teaching?

I will only be doing the MCC/JOC next Spring. I'm just searching around now so that I know exactly what I'm doing when the time comes.

Still tempted by Cockpit4U. I assume they use the same sims for the TR as they use for the MCC/JOC so at least from a cockpit environment point of view it sounds rather exciting.

[OhNoCB]

CRM were really really good I thought even if the sim isn't an exact type. I don't know if it's a deal breaker or not for you but I would be really reluctant to dismiss them because of this.

For what it's worth, I heard things last year about European that weren't so favourable. A couple of things about sim reliability were expressed alongside concerns with the TYPE being more complex than needed when you're ultimately trying to learn MCC principles.

The experience of CRM was my own, and that of European is second hand.

[pjdj777]

The 747 sim has been rebuilt and approved by the CAA. The MCC/JOC is structured around a complex type and fully EASA approved.

Give CA a call, visit the facility. If you're not due until spring you've got plenty of time to visit all potential trainers and make an informed choice.

Cheers

[matcv88]

I am in your exact same position Bearcat and i didnt get the reason why you excluded sim tech, coz the sim isn't full motion? (It's the course I am the most intersted in)

I have been tryin to email cockpit4u but I didn't get any answer is there anyone that had some experience with them?

[OhNoCB]

He's not so interested in Simtech because their sim is not type specific I believe. I have been in their sim and thought it was OK, fine for teaching the MCC. Thought it was more difficult to fly than other sims (maybe just me!) and wasn't a massive fan of the touchscreen o/h panel.

[Groundloop]

Cardiff Aviation is not at Cardiff Airport, they are at St Athan. However the press release on their web-site (dated April 3rd) says that the sims are still in Bournemouth and will remain there "for the time being" but will relocate to St Athan "in due course"! Which is strange because when I was their in June last year they were already being dismantled to be moved to St Athan. Something seems to have changed!

Does anyone know the actual current situation (pjdj777's post would indicate that at least one sim is at St Athan now)?

[pjdj777]

Groundloop

Cardiff Aviation's airline maintenance facility is at St Athan.

The training centre is in the Norman Hangar at Cardiff Airport, where Air Wales were based. The S61 and B747-400 sims are now up and running there. The sims were moved from Bournemouth in October.

The new web site will be up and running soon.

[B737900er]

Bearcat - The sim is in a classroom because its fixed based. They now have a classroom and sim only room.

If you need to do a JOC only and want good value you for money its worth giving them a shout.

They cover everything from Aircraft library to LVPs as well as the usual stuff you cover with a JOC.

[pjdj777]

Of course JOC courses are not EASA approved, only the MCC element is.

As such there isn't really a syllabus for JOC and one companies definition of Jet Orientation would probably be different to another.

However, considering that the biggest issues for students transitioning onto jets are speed, momentum and in particular the power/pitch couple I'm struggling to see how a JOC can be effective on a fixed base simulator.

It's up to you, and I know from bitter experience that cost is certainly a big factor in selecting training providers, I did my own MCC (15 or so years ago) in a fished based king air sim.

Contact the potential training providers, get their promotional material and make an informed choice based on your requirements, budget and your "feel" for the place.

[pjdj777]

Fixed based not fished based.

Doh!

[aless85]

I can 100% recommend Sim4u, Did my MCC/JOC there last December.

Great Sim, Great Instructors. Best money Ever spent!

[Bearcat F8F]

Thank you for the suggestions everyone :ok: