500 on Type

[aviatorhi]

Everyone is fully aware of this requirement for jobs in Asia (with some variance, either 300, 1000, etc.). Frankly it's the last check box I need to fill, as I have plenty of flight time, in jets even (mind you it's a 727 so nobody cares).

The reason I bring this up is two fold.

1) Given sufficient jet aircraft time is there any way to circumvent the required flight time on type (and I'm fully prepared to hear no, but just asking)?

2) Given that I hear that the shortage in Asia is only getting worse (I normally don't pay attention to "impending shortage" statements, but the increase in people leaving, and an increase in pay and benefits on those contracts suggests this is actually the case), is there a foreseeable outcome where the time on type requirement will be dropped or otherwise addressed?

[Machspeed]

I believe so. There was a study in the US last year that stated 466,000 new pilots were needed world wide over the next 10-12 years with nearly 220,000 of those in Asia. China mostly. 97k are needed in the US.

As the shortage gets worse the requirements will drop. Supply and demand. T&Cs should get better too as those airlines have to not only attract talent but stop loss as well.

At my current place of residence, we have seen a 2.14% attrition since Feb2014 and a 3.21% since Oct2012. This is a place that is use to a 1.5% and was proud of it. Management is still trying to say that it's only 1.5%, I guess to make people think their peers are not leaving, however anyone can look at the list and use simple math.

[iggy]

1) Mmm... worth to keep trying but they tend to be stubborn as government policies are a big influence (with the loss of face involved) into this.

2) Should they ever run out of qualified local pilots to give a chance for that first job (you are in that same spot regardless your background, in their eyes), yes, they would look at you. Is it going to happen soon? Well, Cebu Pacific is spitting out some 300 MPL's a year, from nada to Prada in about a year. Same for Vietnam Airlines, Vietjet, the whole of China, Thailand...

Just keep trying... Not fancy ME?

[aviatorhi]

Not really into the sandbox, I have a relatively decent set of circumstances I find myself in right now and not in any particular rush to get out, just wanting to relocate to SE Asia when the time is right. I know from others (and my own) experience that if you rush too much all you're setting yourself up for is disappointment.

Mainly I just find it amusing that thousands of hours in a turbojet are "meaningless" to many of the authorities because there are steam gauges instead of glass tubes, or is it because we have an FE? :}

Ultimately all I care to do is commute to work, do my job, and enjoy my time off, the Asia contract jobs seem to be the best bet for that & (relative) job security.

[WYOMINGPILOT]

If you are looking for security and stability then you can cross China off your list. The medicals, alone are enough to resist coming here. There is a reason they pay 30-50% above all countries. It is because the job is extremely difficult to secure and just as difficult to maintain. There are a few places who might look at you as an FO with no time on type but don't expect an upgrade. With no PIC on type you'll have no chance as a Captain here. My recommendation is go back to your home country unless you are age 50 or greater and work out a decent gig in your home country. I have been an ExPat for 7 years now and don't regret it but if I had to do it over again I would have stayed home and found a job. China has great pay but the risks are through the roof. Best of luck.

[aviatorhi]

Funny enough China is not anywhere near the top of my priority list, I'm interested Thailand, Indo, & others (ASEAN countries to be specific) are more along my lines of interest. As said, have a decent gig at home, but looking at options in the ASEAN significantly reduces the "validity" of my turbojet time given the aircraft type.

[Black Crow]

As said, have a decent gig at home, but looking at options in the ASEAN significantly reduces the "validity" of my turbojet time given the aircraft type. The 727 time will count for total time, but will get you no where in SE Asia without a type and time on type in something modern (B757,767,777,A320,A330,A340).

If your goal is to find work over here go get a type and some time on it.

Ultimately all I care to do is commute to work, do my job, and enjoy my time off, the Asia contract jobs seem to be the best bet for that & (relative) job security.

Excuse me for laughing, but you are way off base here. Time off? Yea, right.

Job security? Again, you better re evaluate your goals.

[The Dominican]

Ultimately all I care to do is commute to work, do my job, and enjoy my time off, the Asia contract jobs seem to be the best bet for that & (relative) job security.

The only contract that meets that criteria is the Air Japan contract with ANA...! And coincidently it is non type rated. Good luck!

[aviatorhi]

Excuse me for laughing, but you are way off base here. Time off? Yea, right.

Job security? Again, you better re evaluate your goals.

Well, by time off I mean when I'm not flying / at work, and regarding job security, well I did say relative, after all, how much longer do you think anybody can get away flying a 727?

Anyway thanks to you and everybody else for the insights, at this point hoping timing works out in my favor. I'm typed on the 737, alas no time on type, but hopefully things look up again in the future.

I'm hoping to get some face to face time with some of the carriers in BKK when I pass through in July on my vacation. Nok Air, Orient Thai, and K-Mile will be my stops.

[Flying Mechanic]

Hong Kong airlines is now taking non type rated, I did my medical check last week, and met 4 guys doing HKCAD class one medical, 2 of them had no airbus time. I think your chances might be better in HK. The Thai CAA require 500 on types for foreigners.

[eaglesnest1972]

@Iggy

Cebu pac is spitting far less than 300 MPL's per year and in the future numbers will be less than that in any case.

CAAP is not recognising ATPL to MPL so all MPL's in Cebu (with over 2000hrs on the bus) are all seriously considering to move to the gulf (given they pass the recruitment over there. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are not Manila:}) unless they want to live in the rh seat for the rest of their lives.

[iggy]

300 was the number told by management when I was there. If not true I stand corrected but anyway, the point is that in Asia the intentions of the companies usually are to produce their own man power hence opportunities to expats are rather scarce. Unless you marry a local and take a local passport. :E

The story I heard was that they were trying to push the MPL's on the left seat with 1.500 hours on type. Glad that that didn't materialize at the end for the sake of the passengers, no offence implied.

Not meaning to hijack the thread but, out of curiosity, how they expect to be taken in the Gulf with an MPL only? GCC airlines are looking for ATPL, either full or frozen.

[fernandeztv]

Not meaning to hijack the thread but, out of curiosity, how they expect to be taken in the Gulf with an MPL only? GCC airlines are looking for ATPL, either full or frozen.

Well for a fact there are already some who are operating for the ME majors.

[jack s]

eaglesnest1972 Cebu MPLs not getting the upgrade is more of game played by PAL and gang to hurt the airline. ICAO has a detailed guideline how to issue ATPL to an MPL and then upgrade to capt.

[Black Crow]

The MPL's at CP were never meant to be upgraded. What is happening now is a result of CP's doing, not anyone else.

CP management (if you can call them that) only wanted warm bodies to fill the right seat since they couldn't figure a way around it. The MPL fit the bill.

Now since CP feels they "own" the MPL's there is no need to do anything with them except continue the abuse. CP has so poorly trained these MPL's they are confident they can't be employed anywhere else.

Sorry, the truth hurts.

[eaglesnest1972]

few of 'em failed the interview with EK as far as i know.
If they won't be upgraded anyway i see an exodus on its way.
Friends there tell me all MPLs are really pissed.

[Black Crow]

If they won't be upgraded anyway i see an exodus on its way.


Exodus to where? Worthless MPL rating, lack of training, sorry, their options are extremely limited. This is exactly what CP wanted and planned for, they are trapped.

Friends there tell me all MPLs are really pissed.

Yep, they are pissed. Too bad they don't have the balls to stand up to management. They'll just sit quietly and keep flying and complain among themselves.

[latetonite]

Excuse me, getting old. What is a MPL?

[kwaiyai]

Basically It stands for Multi Pilot License, Designed to reduce the amount of Hours to allow Graduate to gain Flight crew license to work at an Airline flying Multi Crew Aircraft like A320. An MPL holder usually has to do extra training to fly Single crew type's but most student's are doing this with Muti crew Aircraft job in mind or are under sponsorship from an Airline. Usually MPL is around 160 hrs and some hrs can be counted in Sim, The Countries I worked as an approved CPL flying Instructor before would normally require 250 hrs total etc to issue the Professional Ticket.

[latetonite]

Where I work, we put new ab initio's for 4 sessions in the simulator, to get used to multi-pilot operations. They call it 'Jet Intro'.

It however does not entitles one a license.

[jack s]

doesn't the MPL's now have a full ATPL issues by CAAP with A320 rating ? why would that stop any other airline hiring them; for the rest of the world they are a normal ATPL FO with approx 2000 hrs on A320 that is great.
Black Crow very true stop crying and go fix the issues and apply to other airlines. Lion / HKA / VietJet / AAP all need pilots

[Black Crow]

doesn't the MPL's now have a full ATPL issues by CAAP with A320 rating ? why would that stop any other airline hiring them; for the rest of the world they are a normal ATPL FO with approx 2000 hrs on A320 that is great.

Nope, CAAP has stopped the process. As an MPL they are stuck with that license. The last thing CP wants is for the MPL's to get an ATP and upgrade, that would make them employable elsewhere.

Don't think for one minute that CP is not behind CAAP's decision. CP knows if the MPL's are allowed to upgrade they will have a difficult time finding FO's to replace them.



Black Crow very true stop crying and go fix the issues and apply to other airlines. Lion / HKA / VietJet / AAP all need pilots

No crying here, just speaking the truth.

[lilflyboy262...2]

Black Crow, he was agreeing with you. He wasn't saying that you were crying over it. Just poor grammar.
That, or it was correct grammar and I misread it. :}