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BR36
2nd Jun 2014, 20:02
Just returned from a two hour flight from Poland, sat next to a chap who was huge! Having paid for my seat, it was extremely annoying to have to forego about 15% of it to accommodate his legs, arms and a**e. Every time he moved he nudged me, though he wouldn't know as he slept the entire time, twitching constantly with those involuntary spasms you normally get when you're drifting off to sleep. The snoring, wow, drowned out the twin engines!

Not sure what the solution might be but this surely isn't acceptable, perhaps pay extra to reserve the space required to actually accommodate you??? Having to lean away from him and into the seat adjacent to me (occupied by my girlfriend) in order to secure a bit of space made it an extremely uncomfortable flight!

Seldomfitforpurpose
2nd Jun 2014, 20:27
Sadly as things stand you have only 2 simple choices. Either call the Cabin Crew and ask why the fat fecker next to you is actually occupying your seat as well as their own or as you did today suck it up and live with it.


Short of an airline wide policy change to start charging bloaters double for two seats or dramatically changing seat design to reflect increased levels of obesity the Fat Guy next to you remains the worst nightmare for airline pax.

500N
2nd Jun 2014, 20:39
For the first time in ages I copped one on the way back in Jan.

Not quite as bad as this guy but bad enough !

mikedreamer787
3rd Jun 2014, 03:22
..I keep getting sat next to huge gargantuan
women who must weigh well over 200kg, but
(touch wood) I've never sat next to a fat guy
of the same proportion - that must've been
bloody awful.

In a few instances I have requested another
seat from the hosties - and got it after they
observed my plight.

indiscipline_girl
3rd Jun 2014, 03:43
Fat Guy next to you remains the worst nightmare for airline pax.

Surely the unstoppable screaming baby tops Mr.Blobby?

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 03:47
Screaming baby tops a fat man.

mikedreamer787
3rd Jun 2014, 04:01
Oooh yes screaming baby - while the
dumb thickhead of a mother just sits
there holding it and does absolutely
nothing! :*

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 04:13
I'm a bit to vocal to let them just sit there and do nothing.

I understand babies can be hard to quieten down but I expect them
to do something about it.

I did have one bad trip back from the US with a loud baby :}

finfly1
3rd Jun 2014, 04:41
I was on a commuter flight where the RJ was delayed for well over half an hour while the crew tried to figure out what to do with a man whose bulk was clearly blocking at lease one third of the aisle.

It would have seemed to me that there would be no need to re-invent the wheel each time this happens, and it must have been somewhere in their SOP, but they finally cajoled a smallish female passenger into giving up her window seat so that Mr Large could clear the aisle.

Ancient Mariner
3rd Jun 2014, 06:08
500N: Screaming baby tops a fat man.

Screaming babies can be blocked out, fat people can't.
I always travel with a full size DJ headset (I can pivot one earpiece to communicate with cabin crew).
Then again babies don't bother me much, that's just how they communicate. Out of control kids does.
Per

jolihokistix
3rd Jun 2014, 06:23
Got stuck between two huge Polish blokes flying from LHR to Seoul GMP, just short of 13 hours. Couldn't use either arm rest...

handsfree
3rd Jun 2014, 06:37
Screaming babies can be blocked out

Had one of those on a flight last year.
FA quietly asked mother if she was breast feeding her child and on receiving an affirmative suggested she feed the child as it would help any problems the infant may be having with the cabin pressure.
Baby discretely plugged in and silence reigned.

BabyBear
3rd Jun 2014, 06:41
What's the view of the outcome should a passenger choose to claim the airline didn't honour their part of the contract by providing what was paid for IE a 'full' seat?

Is there something in the small print?

BB

Capetonian
3rd Jun 2014, 06:49
The worst I've had to endure was a passenger reeking of garlic and bad breath. The acrid stench was burning my nose and lungs and making me feel physically sick. To make it worse he was farting, belching, coughing, sniffing and snorting continually.

Initially the cabin crew refused to move me saying the flight was full. When I challenged them on the basis that his condition was so offensive to other passengers that he should not have been allowed to board, they found me another seat.

I have some sympathy for oversized passengers, many cannot help it.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 06:57
Cape

Yep, that's why I give a little bit of leeway to big guys.



I must admit I suffered chronic "wind" on one trip as a teenager, London to Aus,
god knows what I had eaten. I felt sorry for those sitting near me.

Stanwell
3rd Jun 2014, 07:31
Cape,


I was forced to suffer one of those 'powerful' passengers last week. Not only did he want/need the seat (plus) and both the armrests - but most of the legroom as well (he must also have had huge cojones, I assume).


A quite unpleasant (but fortunately, only a domestic) flight - and the aircraft WAS full, as well.


You say you have some sympathy for the grossly overweight.
Fine, but what about those that have to suffer as a consequence of their "needs"?


Cheers, S.

Blacksheep
3rd Jun 2014, 08:09
Returning from Seattle in March I had a bloater next to me. Elbow in my face when eating his meal etc., etc.

Fortunately the bloater on the outbound sector who could barely get down the aisle wasn't sat next to me. She was in the aisle seat opposite and needed two extension belts to get the seat belt round her. The person next to her objected, but there were no spare seats on the flight. A partial refund would have been the only reasonable compensation.

As stated, there should be an enforceable international policy that if you can't fit into the seat space you booked, either the check-in staff deny boarding or, if they make it on board, they get off-loaded. It's not as if these gargantuan individuals are unaware of the fact they don't fit into a normal chair - they buy outsize ones for their own homes or else they sit on a sofa.

mikedreamer787
3rd Jun 2014, 08:55
- they buy outsize ones for their own homes or else they sit on a sofa.


And expect everyone else to accept the
consequences of their personal obscene
grossness when they travel on a public
transport. :*

Tankertrashnav
3rd Jun 2014, 09:09
Its always seemed to me unfair that I have to pay for a mere 5kg of excess baggage, whereas someone carrying an extra 100kg of "baggage" on their fat frame gets away with paying nothing more.

How about a fairly generous top weight limit, say 125kg? Above that, pax have to pay at the same rate per kg that they do for excess baggage. The revenue thus received could be used to fund a row or two of extra wide seats on each aircraft which could be used to accommodate the bloaters.

Ancient Mariner
3rd Jun 2014, 09:15
Tankertrashnav, make that kg/cm. There's a difference between being 150 cm tall and 125 kg and 200 cm with the same weight.
Per

mikedreamer787
3rd Jun 2014, 09:16
I suggest 120kg for fat male slobs
and 100kg for fat female slobs.

OFSO
3rd Jun 2014, 09:17
I also once had a terrible experience with a passenger in the next seat. Young lady, honey blond, low cut dress, nice perfume, she fell asleep and leaned across so her head was on my shoulder. Stayed that way for most of the flight. Dreadful.

mikedreamer787
3rd Jun 2014, 09:27
...And bloody awful when passers-by
think she is one's GF or something.

Embarrassing when they misleadingly
believe one has scored that stunner
despite one's lack of charm grace and
physical attractiveness, and conclude
one must have quite a large member
of sorts.

probes
3rd Jun 2014, 09:36
How about a fairly generous top weight limit, say 125kg? Above that, pax have to pay at the same rate per kg that they do for excess baggage.
It would be less 'discriminating' to weigh pax+baggage and get the excess from that number? :E

david1300
3rd Jun 2014, 09:42
Had one of those on a flight last year.
FA quietly asked mother if she was breast feeding her child and on receiving an affirmative suggested she feed the child as it would help any problems the infant may be having with the cabin pressure.
Baby discretely plugged in and silence reigned.

Let me guess what happened next - you started screaming too :p

I make sure we are never seated close to the front (bassinet) rows in any section - that's obviously where all the bubs and young kids tend to get put.

As regards the 'space infringers', I ask to be reseated, and whatever the outcome complain by email to the airline. I don't think complaining to the cabin crew does any good - they have so much ekes to do that I don't think they pass anything like that onward.

Juud
3rd Jun 2014, 10:54
David, we most certainly do! We hate to see you normal sized people suffer because others infringe on your space. Really, it is one of our pet peeves as well. We want you to be comfy and to get what you paid for. But yes, do complain to the airline directly as well.

Guys, maybe when you book your next flight, check if your chosen airline has a policy for what is euphemistically called "passengers of size".

Articles : Aircraft Interiors International (http://www.aircraftinteriorsinternational.com/articles.php?ArticleID=484)

If they do, and you get seated next to a POS, you can demand that the airline apply its own policy. And if the flight is full, that the POS waits for the next flight.

For some reason, despite many airlines now having this policy, POS do not buy the extra ticket required for their size. Nor do ground staff and gate agents stop these clearly oversized people at any point. They all avoid the embarrassment, I think.

People get bigger, seats get smaller, ground staff gets less qualified.
Which is why I more and more frequently have to deal with this issue on board. And even then, with the policy print-out in my pocket, I have great trouble convincing ground staff that we do have a policy and we WILL apply it.

Was recently even called in for tea-no-biscuits to my manager for insisting that Chicago ground staff apply our own policy for POS. They did not like my tone. :ugh:

As said, you folks should complain to the airline when it happens to you; does more good than here. And may make management even support their FAīs. ;)

cattletruck
3rd Jun 2014, 11:09
I send my heavy parcels by ship. Why? Because it's cheaper.

Passengers of size (is that PC speak for fat bastards) should travel by boat or be made to pay for an extra seat when travelling by air.

Only once did I cop this torture and that was on a 5 hour bus trip. I was squished on the window like one of those novelty suction pad toys for the whole trip.

Airlines should get with it, saving weight means making more profit and should therefore impose a fat levy, then stick all the FBs together in the same row of seats.

(don't put me in charge of an airline, however I think there may be a Qantas position opening up soon).

david1300
3rd Jun 2014, 11:31
David, we most certainly do! We hate to see you normal sized people suffer because others infringe on your space. Really, it is one of our pet peeves as well. We want you to be comfy and to get what you paid for. But yes, do complain to the airline directly as well.
My apologies, Juud. It may gave read like CC won't 'report it upwards' because they don't deem it important. That's not what I meant at all. You guys/girls have so many tasks and responsibilities that I think/thought it may easily slip out of mind purely through work pressure (and having to smile at us sweaty, unbathed, demanding and selfish people as we disembark).

Another peeve of mine is the passenger immediately ahead of me who fully reclines their seat almost before the wheels are up. I'll unkindly presume in future that they are a PoS (I could get to use that term more often :O)

surely not
3rd Jun 2014, 14:16
Many years ago the late Cyril Smith MP, an extremely corpulent person, used to travel from MAN-LGW-MAN with BCal. He always bought two seats when he traveled.

I think I'm right in remembering that Geoff Capes, a super sized body builder, also used to buy two seats when traveling.

So the mechanism to charge large bodied persons for two seats has been around for a long long time. Perhaps it is because straight talking is no longer encouraged that it has become impossible/difficult to ask for two seats to be paid for.

I am 106 kgs, but I do not overspill into the next door seat and nor do I need an extension seat belt, but I might ask to move away from the terrible sound of whining coming from some of you skinnies.

John Marsh
3rd Jun 2014, 15:15
Do the current rules & practices allow for oversize pax in an emergency? Ease/speed of movement from seat; passage along aisle (which they would surely block).

There may be something in the suggestion to put all larger pax in one area - perhaps with some evacuation-briefed, able-bodied pax nearby.

Juud
3rd Jun 2014, 16:30
John, not sure what it is like with other airlines, but probably similar to ours.

As in, only an Able Bodied Passenger can sit on an exit row. Which is any row directly adjacent to an exit, or a row from which you can get to the exit without going through the aisle.

PoS is not considered an ABP (love of abbreviations alive and well in aviation, thank you) and can therefore not sit on an exit row.

If I had a dollar for every time Iīve found a WCHR/S/C (various type of wheelchair needed) passenger on an exit row ......

Once, already on the runway and about to start the take-off in Tokyo, I discovered that an obese WCHS had moved himself to the exit row facing my seat. As he categorically refused to move back to his own seat, and loudly started chanting Buddhist chants when I insisted, I had to call the cockpit and inform captain that the cabin was not after all ready. I was mortified.
Captain made a PA and strongly requested chanting WCHS to move to his own seat or we would not leave.
Man still refused until other Japanese pax started haranguing him in his own language.
We left, but his misbehaviour the rest of the flight kept us all busy for the entire 12 hours.
Should have unloaded him as soon as he refused to move.
But I was a fresh Purser and lacked experience in when to put my foot down. Didnīt want to inconvenience the rest of the people on our 747 with a hefty delay, and didnīt dare admit to the captain that I didnīt think I could handle a passenger.
Lesson well and truly learnt. :ok:

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 17:07
"I am 106 kgs, but I do not overspill into the next door seat and nor do I need an extension seat belt,"

I'm 113 kg and the same, do not overspill or need an extension seat belt
and I easily fit between the arm rests.

And I almost always sit in an emergency exit row.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 18:15
I don't want to be too personal about this, but as you willingly declare your avoirdupois, which is just slightly greater than twice mine, if you are in an exit row which is not a full door, but a movable porthole, so to speak, would you fit through it?

Or would it take a moment or two?

I am disabled, and systematically denied exit row seats, which does not bother me in the least, except that I sometimes wonder if disabled passengers should not get out amongst the first, so as to release the exit paths for the fit and able bodied when things are warming up. (Perhaps literally!)

If you are fit and able bodied, and the cabin fire is gaining ground, would you prefer to be behind the cripple who is holding things up, or would you prefer him/her to be well out of the way already?

Many disabled people have weakness in the legs, but compensate with upper body strength, useful for wrenching open an exit. The exit slide depends mostly on gravity, to which disabled PAX are at no disavantage.

Just thoughts...

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 18:22
Wings

Good question. Nothing personal about it.

I can fit through the hole, not a problem - one way or another :O
Seriously, I have looked to make sure plus used to "squeezing" through and over things like logs, even if it is harder in older age !!!

If you were holding things up in front of me, I'd pick you up and carry or throw you out and follow you out straight away.
If you were behind me having problems, I'd probably do the same, taking into account we would be doing what the CC ask.

I can guarantee it would NOT be a nice exit but exit it would be, hopefully alive :ok:

(I don't like fire !)

I spent 9 months in full leg cast and part of it in a wheel chair and flew maybe 4 or 5 times
during that period (London - Melbourne) including one week after breaking my leg.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 18:37
Nice reply 500.

Hope you don't need to chuck me out before you or after you. A FL350 to zero feet plummet would be a fine way to go, but fire is not nice.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 18:43
Fire (and Smoke) and water, two forces of nature that are very hard to combat and kill very quickly.

Am looking at getting an S-10 regulator, we have a lot of fires here in Aus and having one
in the car just might help.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 18:59
Water is Ok for me but I fear fire. And smoke makes you a bit too passive.

con-pilot
3rd Jun 2014, 18:59
As stated, there should be an enforceable international policy that if you can't fit into the seat space you booked, either the check-in staff deny boarding or, if they make it on board, they get off-loaded.

They have those bins at the gate desk to check to see if the carry-on baggage will fit into the overhead lockers, right.

So they need to have a coach class seat (cattle car) there as well, if a passenger cannot fit in the single seat, they then have a choice, buy another ticket for an adjoining seat, or upgrade to business/first class where there are larger seats or they cannot go.

Sorted.


Wings

"avoirdupois", I had to look that up, quit using those big words, my simple mind does not understand them. :{

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 19:17
Con, I learned a thing or two about eggs from you, although I thought I was on pretty safe turf.

So can we agree that my use of slightly out of the usual words is merely a way of enhancing the common body of knowledge which we humans share?

I will not quit teaching you things until you desist likewise.. Deal?

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 19:22
"avoirdupois", I had to look that up, quit using those big words, my simple mind does not understand them. :{ "

So did I ! :O

Amazing what you learn on here !

I learnt two things from his one post :ok:

superq7
3rd Jun 2014, 19:37
wings, re avoirdupois I think the panel on 'call my bluff ' would have struggled with that one :ok:

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 19:40
Wings

How did you come up with "avoirdupois" or was it part of your vocab ?

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 19:45
Well, I suppose that multiculturism has its benefits after all.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 20:01
What was t'other thing? Just curious

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 20:06
Wings

"I am disabled,"


Used to do some temp work for a Disabled house (now called Special needs) as part of my Psych degree.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 20:16
As someone who knows, avoid "special needs" epithets. Our needs are not special. We just need a little understanding every now and then. Not much to ask.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 20:20
Agree.

I don't use the words, in fact i hate the term special needs.

I still use Disabled.

wings folded
3rd Jun 2014, 20:25
Sorry 500, that may have read a bit harsh. I am a cripple, from birth, and have had a few decades to get used to it.

If you devote even a few moments to help, you are a decent bloke

mostlylurking
3rd Jun 2014, 20:35
I have my stories of bloated passengers, including getting myself offloaded and put up in a hotel overnight on the grounds that I couldn't secure myself safetly - yuo are not secured if you are not sitting between the 2 straps.
The biggest issue is one I haver never seen discussed:- seats are rated for 16g dynamic @ a mass of 77kg. If you strap a beached whale of twice that into a seat it is now an 8g seat. We know that the old 9g seats cost a lot of lives.
These people are a danger to those seated next to and in front of them.
It should simply be illegal for a person who exceeds the rating of the seat to occupy it.

con-pilot
3rd Jun 2014, 20:45
A slight thread drift.

As time goes on, my leg left leg is deteriorating more and more, thus now requiring me to use a cane when I know that I will be doing any sort of walking for any distance, such as when traveling on the airlines.

However, my upper body strength is excellent as is my right leg. With that in mind, does this, me left leg, obviate me from sitting in an exit row?

To anyone that would know, thank you.






See wings, I know some of them there fancy words meself. ;)

G-CPTN
3rd Jun 2014, 21:31
re avoirdupois - I'm not 'well-read', but I was taught the avoirdupois weight system at school - maybe it's an age thing?

ExSp33db1rd
3rd Jun 2014, 21:48
Avoirdupois is a system of weights (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Units_of_measurement) (more properly, mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass)) based on a pound (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_%28mass%29) of 16 ounces (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ounce).

but we've gone metric now.

With that in mind, does this, me left leg, obviate me from sitting in an exit row?

only on the Port side, presumably ?

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 21:50
"only on the Port side, presumably ?"

:D:D:D:D:D

Tankertrashnav
3rd Jun 2014, 21:57
avoirdupois", I had to look that up, quit using those big words, my simple mind does not understand them. :{


Con - seeing that you come from just about the last nation on earth to use the avoirdupois system, it's odd that you're not familiar with the term.

Or when you were in grade school learning about pounds and ounces, didn't they tell you that the system had a fancy French name? ;)

Yours metrically, TTN

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 22:03
Now you mention it !

I do remember from 30+ years ago.

con-pilot
3rd Jun 2014, 22:19
only on the Port side, presumably ?

Loved that! :ok:

con-pilot
3rd Jun 2014, 22:23
Tank

Or when you were in grade school learning about pounds and ounces, didn't they tell you that the system had a fancy French name?

Uhh, err, I don't know just how to break this to you, but I spent six years in England during my grade school years, five of those years in an English Public School.

So I'll just blame it on old age. :E

BenThere
3rd Jun 2014, 22:32
On my airline if you sit in the exit row you must be physically able and willing to open the overwing door and start the potential evacuation. The determination as to whether you can do that is left up to you, but you must answer in the affirmative when asked.

The exit row gives you another 6 inches of legroom.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 22:35
"The determination as to whether you can do that is left up to you, but you must answer in the affirmative when asked."

The cc always give you a good "once over" and make an assessment.

In have had someone next to me moved to another seat so it does happen.
I think they were just too old.


Sometimes I do wonder how some of the skinny ladies would go pulling that
"door" open, turning it and throwing it out.

G-CPTN
3rd Jun 2014, 22:42
Sometimes I do wonder how some of the skinny ladies would go pulling that "door" open, turning it and throwing it out.
Careful! I believe that there are slim (and slight) females operating as crew on aircraft that frequent this forum.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 22:45
Yes, I went out with one, she was slim and slight (and blonde :O)
but they knew what they were doing and had done it before and
although a struggle they would do it.

I think it's different for people who, in an emergency
do it for the first time.

Just my HO.

con-pilot
3rd Jun 2014, 23:08
On my airline if you sit in the exit row you must be physically able and willing to open the overwing door and start the potential evacuation. The determination as to whether you can do that is left up to you, but you must answer in the affirmative when asked.


Oh hell, there is no doubt in my mind that I am able and capable of removing the emergency over wing exit door and chucking it out of the opening*, did it enough in training. Then getting out and then helping people exit the aircraft.

But will the cabin crew believe me when I reply to the question with "Affirmative"? That is my question.


* Yes I know that are some airlines that want you to lay the exit door on the seat or the floor, but sorry, if I'm the one removing the emergency door, it is going out the opening.

500N
3rd Jun 2014, 23:15
"some airlines that want you to lay the exit door on the seat or the floor,"

Never been told that before.

I agree, it goes out the hole and I follow it !

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 04:31
6'4", 130kg and shoulders in the region of 33 inches. Somewhat in the Jona Lomu mould, although bits are migrating south. Airline economy seats are not designed for people my size.

I spend most of the flight leaning out into the aisle as my shoulders extend well past the seat width, something my lower back doesn't appreciate (the barrow load of titanium in there doesn't help things). The CC don't appreciate it either as they constantly run the trolley into my shoulders and leg I have in the aisle, or bump me while walking past. I no longer bother eating on board as it's just too awkward. Neither do I recline as the person behind me will be inconvenienced. Strangely, the short arse in front of me usually has no such qualms.

I also have the unfortunate knack of ending up seated next to those pax with raisin sized bladders who require a piss every 20 minutes while insisting on getting tanked up on the free booze on board.

I fcuking hate sitting in the back of these damned things. The only comment I have for the starry eyed young females who gush about how much they love travel when they find out what I do for a living, is a sour grump and a return to my book.

Bah! Humbug...!

sitigeltfel
4th Jun 2014, 05:10
Many airlines have a sizing cradle for carry on bags. If it doesn't fit, you have to pay extra to put it in the hold. Maybe they should have another gauge to weed out the porky pax. Too big and you pay for an extra seat. ;)

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 05:33
Spoken like a true short arse...:}

Juud
4th Jun 2014, 05:41
- seats are rated for 16g dynamic @ a mass of 77kg. If you strap a beached whale of twice that into a seat it is now an 8g seat. We know that the old 9g seats cost a lot of lives.

I'd like to understand the above.

Seat can take x times gravity with pap weighing y

If pap weighs 2y, seat can only take 0.5 gravity

Is that it, or am I missing something?

CoodaShooda
4th Jun 2014, 06:16
SRT

I share your pain....but I've managed to reduce from 130 to 115 in recent times and am still trending down. :p

Can just fit in the seats provided and usually go with an exit row aisle. Shoulder cops a battering but leg room is the real bugger. If I miss out on the exit row, I invariably get the seat with an equipment box under the seat in front, a malfunctioning IE screen and the seat reclining aficionado ahead of me.. :ugh:

Can be fun travelling with Coodakids 2 & 3. Pax 1, 6'3" and 115kg, Pax 2 6'3" and 89kg and Pax 3 6'8" and 95kg. Or, if you prefer, one ex-infantry, one military flight crew and one old, fat slob. :E

All of us capable of getting through the emergency exit.

In fairness, the title of this thread should be changed to 5XL or higher. XL's just a slip of a lad these days.

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 06:32
Yup, hips fit in the seat without a problem. The shoulders and the legs are another matter. I also find myself sitting very much higher than those around me which should already be ringing warning bells for airlines intent on further reducing their seat space.

I tend to see right over the top of all the rows in front of me while seated normally. The space left makes it impossible to slouch and when the short arse in front of me reclines his seat, It generally ends up resting on my knees. I then get foul looks and snarky remarks when I shove on it in order to bend my legs to get a knee sideways and one leg out in the aisle to give the creature room.

Air rage? I shyt it. CC have a thankless job dealing with pax and it's not my place to make things worse, but some folks just need a gentle knee in the groin at times.


I'd like to understand the above.

Seat can take x times gravity with pap weighing y

If pap weighs 2y, seat can only take 0.5 gravity

Is that it, or am I missing something?


Force = Mass x acceleration. Double the mass and the same amount of force requires only half the acceleration. Another reason putting three large folks in a row is a bad idea. It requires far less acceleration to rip the rails from their mountings on the floor in case of an emergency (or even heavy turbulence).

CoodaShooda
4th Jun 2014, 06:59
Took me a while to realize the head rests could be raised to a level that almost...but not quite....cleared the top of my shoulders.

Soooo, if I compress the spine a bit and push the gut out a bit more, I can contort my shoulders into a position where I can actually get my head on the damn thing. But better than having no restraint behind my head and neck with the headrest in its usual position.

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 07:07
The fully raised headrest is in that awkward position where it serves as a very useful fulcrum point should I go over backwards. More than likely lead to a broken neck. Doesn't really work for me at all and I can't hunch down in the seat due to the drumsticks being wedged up against the seat in front. The flights are usually six to eleven hours of agony for me, although dosing up on Voltaren before departure helps a little.

Juud
4th Jun 2014, 07:48
Thanks Rusty; then I did understand it correctly.
Not a happy thought.

Question for you and Cooda.
Have you ever considered availing yourselves of the option to buy two seats?
When the flight is not full, with many airlines you get the whole or half the price of the second seat refunded.
It is still expensive, but it will also make your trips more bearable.
Also, many airlines now offer a separate tourist class section with extra leg room for a smallish fee. Makes a huge difference if you are tall.
Do you book that when it is available?

And Rusty, why shove the seat instead of asking the person in front of you?
Seat shoving easily leads to air rage. A bit of communication can avoid that.

Pax growing bigger would make it logocal for airlines to make seats bigger.

But since pax almost exclusively go for the cheapest tickets available, airlines can not afford to make seats bigger. Since bigger seats = equals fewer seats, bigger seats = lower revenue.
On a tourist class seat across the Atlantic, profit is about 1 US $. ONE dollar.
The math is not encouraging.

On most flights now, (I am on long haul) we have to deal with pax not fitting into their seats. Because they are taller and / or wider than the small space allocated.

On a full flight, this is dire for all concerned. Excruciating for tall people, who like Rusty describes stick their legs out into the aisle and are continually bumped into by ourselves. Painful for them, and painful for us.
Especially at night, stumbling over pax legs causes endless falls and bruises.
Trying to manoeuvre trollies through tight aisles is similarly problematic.
Facing the walking direction, your view of the lower aisle is blocked by the trolley. You donīt want to hurt pax, you you walk at a snailīs pace and even then hit legs.
Facing backwards, you can scan the aisle intermittently, and move the legs of sleeping pax out of the way, but it is not foolproof.
We are always covered in bruises because of abrupt cart-stoppage. ;)
Not a sob story, bruises are part of the job.

Air rage usually erupts over outer Mongolia, the Gobi desert or Mid-Alantic.
You canīt land, the flight is full and you have to deal with it there and then.

Last occasion of that I had was in November. PoS under the influence of God knows what, disturbing people around her. Who took exception. She was in law enforcement and not only huge, but strong as an ox and aggressive as hell.

It took 5 of us (small sized, slender, female) FAs to peel her off a fellow pap she was choking. We had to put her in a double arm lock, drag her through the dark and narrow aisle, subdue her in a galley, put her in handcuffs and sedate her.
Twice, as one shot of sedative wasnīt enough.
Just writing about it I can feel the adrenaline kicking in again.
And yes, another flight where we came home covered in bruises.
And again I felt I had failed in my duty of care towards both my pax and my FAs.
It is not a good feeling.

Unless pax themselves start using the options available, and airlines start enforcing their policies for PoS, this problem will keep getting worse.

Most flight attendants, stewards and stewardesses, whatever you want to call us, are tough as nails, and a bit of rough and tumble is part of our job. Tall people canīt help that they are tall, but I fail to see why cabin crew the world over have to bear the brunt of people not taking into account their size when they buy an airline ticket.
If you are big, you know it.
Why is it my job to deal with that fact?
And get shouted at, sworn at, kicked and bitten and pushed and shoved because some people are too big for their seats, and others refuse to be squeezed by them?

Again, I am no shrinking violet. Bruises heal, and even if it is stressful, you can live with being shouted at.
But the mere sight of an big pap coming down the jetway is nowadays enough to put me in full alert mode. :uhoh:

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 07:59
I don't travel for fun, Ms Juud. Company travel and they won't spring for extra/bigger seat. The sectors I use make the upgrade/extra seat very expensive so not an option.

Pax in front usually lower the seat at speed and without warning, trapping my legs in a very painful manner. The shove is to raise the seat slightly to free them, usually resulting in attitude from pax doing the dirty deed with zero thought for those behind. Getting a meal into that space is then impossible and they won't usually oblige by raising the seat. If CC ask them to do so, it goes up for as long as it takes CC to move on to the next passenger then down again, so I just find it simpler not to bother with meal service.

Very rarely, CC will offer me a seat in Premium or Business on seeing my predicament, but not often. Once in the last two years on seeing my crew tags on the carry on.

Andy_S
4th Jun 2014, 09:09
Perhaps the time has come for airlines to consider economy seats without recline; at the moment they seem to cause more problems and bad feeling than the (very modest) gain in comfort is worth.

Juud
4th Jun 2014, 09:42
Andy, it has started. Reclining seats banned (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/10865861/Reclining-seats-banned-by-Monarch-Airlines.html)
And while itīs eminently feasible for short and medium haul, Iīm not sure how much pax would like to sit bolt upright for anything from 6 to 14 hours at a stretch.

Rusty, I know you donīt travel for fun mate. And I know being a tall and big person is not your 'fault'. Believe me, us CC feel for you, and wince in sympathy every time a person in front of you reclines their seat. Manyīs the time we semi-illegally allow a tall person to spend part of teh trip on our take off seat just to ease the pain.

But none of that changes the fact that a big person invades the seat space of the person next to him/her, and makes that personīs trip painfully uncomfortable. He or she has also paid for that seat. Is it right that he/she travels under those circumstances? Or is it up to the bigger person to try and make sure that everybody can travel in relative comfort?

With employers refusing to pay, am I correct in assuming that the only way to make your employer fork out for a extra seat would be people like me applying the PoS policy and refusing people like you? :sad:

Still disagree with your shoving technique. Yes people are inconsiderate. But by being equally inconsiderate, you inflame the situation. While a word of warning might save the day.

As for upgrading PoS; hereīs a few thoughts.
Airlines struggle to make a profit. Our best customers are our frequent flyers.
If anybody gets an upgrade, it will be one of them.
So instead of upgrading a PoS, once in flight, I will initiate musical chairs in such a way that the PoS gets 2 seats (not paid for by him/her or their employer!), the person initially squeezed by the PoS gets an unimpinged seat and the company frequent flyer gets an upgrade.

Also, different rules for different companies, but upgrades these days are very strictly regulated. Pax in the expensive seats take a very dim view of others getting to sit next to them 'for free'. And will let the company know ASAP.
Upgrading somebody 'just because' can result in severe repercussions for the CC concerned.

In the case of fellow air crew travelling with us for work, I do the following.
Bring his/her presence to the captainīs attention, preferably with an ID or business card, and by the way mention we have a free seat somewhere a little more comfortable. If the Captain suggest I upgrade, I happily do it.

JWP1938
4th Jun 2014, 09:43
I think one airline (Monarch?) has already announced that they are fitting all their aircraft with non-reclining seats now. Economy only though I think.

Andy_S
4th Jun 2014, 10:00
And while itīs eminently feasible for short and medium haul, Iīm not sure how much pax would like to sit bolt upright for anything from 6 to 14 hours at a stretch.

Speaking personally, of course, but it doesn't bother me; I rarely recline my seat, even for long haul flights; the few inches of recline you get in economy hardly seem worth it. If you accept, as a passenger, that cost is more important than comfort, and the compromises that result (limited leg and elbow room) then it's not such a big leap to not being able to recline.

david1300
4th Jun 2014, 11:29
Then there is always the 'Knee Defender' option to resist reclining seats:
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail (http://www.couriermail.com.au/travel/holiday-ideas/passenger-using-the-knee-defender-hands-seatmate-an-unbelievable-note/story-fnjpjagy-1226942501868)

Solid Rust Twotter
4th Jun 2014, 11:29
The shove is just a lift of the seat back to relieve the pressure and allow me to get my legs out of the way and into a more uncomfortable (for me) position. It's pretty much instinctive, as one would do were a heavy weight to be suddenly dropped on one's knees. The seat is immediately released to the reclined position once drumsticks have been extracted. Of course this has no bearing on the outrage of the reclining party.

As mentioned, one goes out of one's way to avoid trouble, knowing how it affects CC trying to do their job. Going full baboon and trying to eat the offender's face would be my preferred option but that generally doesn't go down very well on aircraft.

Can't even smother the bugger at 2am with those dinky pillows in economy...:}

cattletruck
4th Jun 2014, 12:40
A few tips for the travelling tall pax like myself.

Get an extra inch of legroom by getting to your seat early and emptying all that crap in the front seat pocket into the pocket of the seat next to you.

If you have an isle seat lean your head into the isle. A few good encounters with the trolley and you won't feel anything else.

Ancient Mariner
4th Jun 2014, 13:05
If I travel by RyanAir I know that seats don't recline and I've paid accordingly. By any other airline I pay for the use of the reclining seat, quite simple really.
Per

ExXB
4th Jun 2014, 14:22
I hate reclining seats, my wife loves them. We are seeing more and more airlines moving to the 'permanent-recline' model and I would support this even on the long-haul.

Just don't tell my wife. (At least I've taught her to recline slowly, in increments, and to sit up during meals.)

CoodaShooda
4th Jun 2014, 21:28
Hi Falps

Additional seats aren't possible as it's invariably company travel.

But I select my seat in the hope of having a vacancy next door.

I don't need to shove the guy in front when he reclines. He's just impaled his kidneys on my kneecaps without any effort on my part.

I just endure in silence. Crocodile Dundette did a spell as Cabin Manager on long haul A330. She'd eviscerate me if I upset the Cabin Crew. :E