BBC2 2100 Sunday June 1st..Capt Winkle

[Genghis the Engineer]

BBC Two - Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045pbq2)

I imagine that most of us will be recording or watching that!

G

[CharlieOneSix]

From the above BBC link:
The infamous RAF pilot recounts his experiences up to and during the Second World War.Yet again the BBC can't get its facts right - Fleet Air Arm, not the RAF:ugh::ugh:.......and why the derogatory term infamous? Famous surely?

But I'll certainly watch it - amazing man who I had the pleasure of serving under when he chaired a BHAB Committee back in the 70's.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I should blame the idiot webpage writers - hopefully the programme makers were rather more on the ball. Or at least, EMB will have almost certainly kept them so.

G

[Allan Lupton]

You'd have thought the man's rank being "Captain" would have given 'em a clue he wasn't RAF - even a lifelong civilian, such as I am, knows the RAF ranks don't include that one.
As for "infamous", words (almost) fail. But then someone decreed that inflammable should be universally mis-rendered as "flammable" for the benefit of those who assumed that the "in-" prefix always means "not" - we'll have "candescent" light bulbs next and use "dicators" to signal our intentions when on the road.:)

[VictorGolf]

Thanks for the "heads-up" Genghis. I went to his talk at the Cambridge branch of the R Ae S recently and it was amazing. Best part of 2 hours without notes and standing for the duration. No wonder he got a standing ovation from the crowd which included, amongst the greybeards, a lot of university students and ATC cadets which was good to see. Hopefully he inspired some of them to pursue a career in aviation.

[PAXboy]

The link in the original post (above) leads to a BBC page that does mention any of the mistakes listed by Genghis.But if you look via the schedule pages - the mistakes are there.

The 'online complaint' link went nowhere. So I phoned: 03700 100 222

The options were clear and I soon got a very helpful person. I told him the programme and he looked it up and agreed that it was contradictory to use the word 'infamous' and I told him of the factual inaccuracy. I explained that I had tried to use the online method but got no joy from that link.

He was good enough to check the Radio Times and said that it was listed differently. I said that I know the 'blurb's is not written by the folks who make the programme but this was clearly an error. he was very helpful. I shall check the listing in 24 hours.

May I suggest that you try phoning them too.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Knowing Captain Brown passably well, I imagine that if he knows about the mistake, he probably finds it very amusing.

Technically he was an "infamous RAF pilot", if you happened to be serving in the Gestapo circa 1939. I suppose it's at-least technically possible that there are people in the BBC to whom that applies.



On the general subject - just why has EMB never been knighted, and isn't it long overdue that the aviation community got together and did something about it whilst he's still fit and well enough to appreciate and enjoy the recognition?

G

[magpienja]

Sunday 1st June BBC 2 21:00 HRS

Doc about Capt Winkle...looks very interesting.

[Wander00]

Somebody tell him.................how many threads! But thanks

[PAXboy]

The BBC iPlayer schedule for BBC2 now shows:

21:00
Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown

The famous FAA pilot recounts his experiences up to and during the Second World War.

I'll take that as a 'win'. :ok:

[Wander00]

Well done PAXboy

[magpienja]

Must have missed them.....

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, having watched it - damned well done BBC - an excellent tribute to a great British hero.

Now, let's face facts. That was a "pilot" episode. When are we getting the full 10 part series?

G

[Allan Lupton]

Not as good as I'd hoped - showing the DH108 film upside-down was possibly the least good. Not a lot about Brown's flying of German aeroplanes at Farnborough but we did get his account of flying Me262 and 163 in Germany.
Intrusive "music" as usual these days but no arm-waving "presenter" for once.

I'm not sure a 10 part series would be enough - the six-week residential course is more the thing needed.

[18greens]

Does it answer the question 'Why is he called Winkle?'

Otherwise looking forward to seeing it.

[Heathrow08]

He did briefly explain why he was called Winkle. (Or to be correct the filmakers did on his behalf.)

His friends nicknamed him that, because he was small. He also claimed that being small had also saved his life during a crash.


Very interesting man and the documentary was good, but not really what I expected. A flight with Ernst Udet in the 1930s was quite a thing though!

[exeng]

Just like to say that the program was delightful and was one of the rare occasions where I have been stuck to the TV.

From Gengis:
On the general subject - just why has EMB never been knighted, and isn't it long overdue that the aviation community got together and did something about it whilst he's still fit and well enough to appreciate and enjoy the recognition?


Whilst I agree with you it would be appropriate to award Captain Brown that recognition, judging from the man's character I don't suppose he would be in the least bit bothered.

Knighthoods are given to people like Goodwin (and stripped again to be fair). The honours system in the UK is in my opinion a complete farce.

Captain Brown has been honoured by the BBC program and millions of us will admire his skill and bravery.


Kind regards
Exeng

[India Four Two]

"Wings on my Sleeve" is one of my favourite books. I would have liked to have watched the documentary, but it was on in the middle of the night here. Is it going to be repeated or be available online?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Does it answer the question 'Why is he called Winkle?'

Otherwise looking forward to seeing it.

Physically small, found at sea.

G

[aviate1138]

Although Captain Eric Brown might not be fussed over a Knighthood I am sure a whole mass of

us would like to see him Knighted by HMQ.

[Bergerie1]

aviate1138

Hear! Hear!

[goudie]

Most enjoyable and interesting programme about a courageous and highly talented man. 'Winkle' is also a master of understatement.

Difficult to understand why he has never received a Knighthood but then he doesn't play football and has never been in show business:rolleyes:

[Airclues]

India Four Two

Is it going to be repeated or be available online?

Repeated tomorrow (Tuesday) at 23.20 (BST)

Dave

[India Four Two]

Dave,

Thanks. That's slightly more tolerable - 0620 local ;)

[vctenderness]

What an incredible man! I watched this in awe. I moly hope that if I reach the ripe old age of 95 I am as lucid and sharp as him.

As mentioned in this thread why did I not see SIR Eric Brown?

When we talk of heroes this man stands head and shoulders above the rest.

Torpedoed, bale out of burning aircraft, land twin engined aircraft on carrier, land first jet on carrier, fly what amounted to a death trap and live to tell the tale!

[aviate1138]

You just know that he would have taken the Miles M-52 and broken the "Sound Barrier" and by now would probably be Lord Eric Brown......

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just for sparing the world from a certain American pilot's ego !

G

[blaireau]

I have an excellent book, "War Prizes", signed by Eric Brown. The author is Phil Butler and it is a Midland Counties Publication.

It is very well illustrated and covers all of the axis aircraft captured and tested both during, and immediately after WW2.

[PAXboy]

The man shone through all the flim flam. By which I mean:-


continuous and irritating music
images and shots that were repeated
shots that were repeated but shown in reverse so that you might think it was a new shot
still images that were heavily photoshopped
still images manipulated to appear as moving images

The material and the man was more than strong enough and did not need all the modern 'playing around with'. If they didn't muck about, they would have saved themselves money. unfortuantely, that's the fashion.

But, worth watching for the way he describes a 'hairy situation' as being 'a bit tricky' and with no false modesty and never 'shooting a line'.

Knighthood irrelevant. His colleagues and those who watched would have seen the man.

[chevvron]

One thing puzzles me; although he was never in the RAF, the 'portrait' photo clearly showed him wearing RAF uniform.
No mention of him commanding 'Enemy Aircraft Flight', his work on catapult and arresting systems or the Sea Vampire 'rubber landing deck'.

[Airbanda]

On the Honours point bear in mind it's possible to be nominated but refuse. I know one or two individuals who were said to have done so.

[Molemot]

Anyone can nominate anyone else for an honour. There is a standard form..as one would expect of the Civil Service...so if anyone fancies the task of filling it in and submitting it, here's the website to start from...

https://www.gov.uk/honours/nominate-someone-in-the-uk

It seems that one cannot recommend an individual for a particular honour, just for "an honour" in general. No reason why you can't suggest a Knighthood, though. Since we now have all manner of deserving dopefreak rock and rollers as Knights of the Realm, I'm not sure if Capt. Brown would wish to be in their company.

[topgas]

RAF uniform - he learnt to fly in 1937 while at Edinburgh University with the Air Unit, which is probably where the photo came from. On return from Germany, he joined the RNVR as an FAA pilot, according to Wiki

[PAXboy]

he joined the RNVR as an FAA pilot, according to Wikiand according to Brown in the programme. He said that he returned to England at the start of the war and saw a notice that the FAA were looking for pilots - so he joined them (he did not say but) almost on a whim. Hence his career path from RAF, FAA, RAE.

[vctenderness]

Did he ever fly any commercial aircraft? His list of military is phenomenal.

[Bergerie1]

Yes:-

Avro Tudor
Avro York
Bristol Britannia
Britten-Norman Islander
DH Comet
DH Rapide
Douglas Dakota
HP Hermes
Hawker Siddeley 748
Lockheed Constellation
Lockheed Electra
Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer
Vickers Vanguard
Vickers VC10
Vickers Viking
Vickers Viscount

And I am sure I have got some of these wrong!

[Flying Lawyer]

There's an interesting interview by award-winning journalist and pilot Pat Malone (https://www.airpilots.org/about-the-company/trophies-and-awards/award-winners/the-award-for-aviation-journalism/) here:

Captain E M Brown CBE AFC DFC FRAeS RN (https://www.airpilots.org/ruth-documents/guild-news/GUILD%20NEWS%20June%2009%20pt1.pdf)

It starts at page 9 of the link.

[ICT_SLB]

FL.
Thanks for the link - a fascinating read.

[vctenderness]

Blimey! What a list shame he didn't manage to add Concorde.