Vulcan NOT appearing at RIAT 2014

[N.HEALD]

Just seen this on Facebook from the Vulcan people, what a great shame and seems a very short-sighted decision by someone, surely RIAT would want XH558 to display as she is a major crown puller.


An important statement on the Royal International Air Tattoo and XH558 in 2014.
It's with deep disappointment that I have to let XH558's supporters know that she will not be appearing at RIAT this year.
As in all previous years since first flight in 2007, we met with organisers of RIAT earlier this year to negotiate our display contract for displays on both the Saturday and Sunday and, as in previous years, with XH558 parked close to the Vulcan Village for tours.
... The RIAT organisers decided to defer any decision on the Vulcan pending a better understanding of which aircraft and display teams would be attending from the foreign air forces invited.
Despite regular follow-up, it wasn't until the beginning of May that we were notified the Saturday display programme was full and that the only opportunity to display might be on the Sunday.
Today, we have been informed that the Sunday display is now full, and that RIAT's offer of a Vulcan display on the Sunday had consequently been withdrawn.
We were instead offered a static position for XH558 crowd-side with a nearby site for trading. However we have a duty of care to those of our volunteers who staff the Vulcan Village not to risk exposing them to visitors expecting to see XH558 flying who complain that she is not.
For this reason, and the significant costs involved in bringing XH558, the Vulcan Village and the team to Fairford for the weekend, we have decided to decline RIAT's offer of a static position.
We know that you, XH558's supporters, want to see her fly; please check our web site to look for the other display appearances that she will making around the country during this year’s display season.
Best regards
Robert Pleming

[Wander00]

Not bothered either way personally, but the "duty of care" argument seems a bit thin - just cannot see air show enthusiast being objectionable to Pleming's team ...................

[BEagle]

Another reason not to bother with this expensive, rather mediocre air show which is now but a pale shadow of its former self.

Have you seen the list of confirmed aircraft.... :\

No Vulcan, no air show.....:mad:

[reds & greens]

No loss for me.
It's had it's day.
For many people the tame display has been overtaken by other dynamic aircraft capable of stealing its thunder.

[GeeRam]

RIAT has the first appearance of the new wonder jet though, so all's well :ok:


Waddo looks a better line up anyway.......:)

Vulcan, Canberra PR.9, 3 x ship Gnat display team, Hunters and the Swedish AFHF Viggen and Draken coming over (shame they couldn't bring the lovely Lansen over as well)

:D

[Capetonian]

Earlier today I was about to book tickets for the show. Something intuitive made me hold back, and seeing this thread confirms the decision.

I hope the organisers of RIAT become aware of this thread and the strength of feeling about XH558. Seeing it at a static display is like a glass of fine shiraz, a fillet steak and chips without the steak or wine!

[CoffmanStarter]

While XH558 is still in an airworthy state ... I think it's a very sad state of affairs when the organisers of the RIAT feel unable to offer this venerable aircraft a display slot :(

[gzornenplatz]

No great loss, lurching around the sky with great boots of rudder. Rather see something flying aerodynamically.

[Vendee]

No great loss, lurching around the sky with great boots of rudder. Rather see something flying aerodynamically.I'll fetch the popcorn ;)

[500N]

You want people to go to any activity, you have to make it a destination experience.

If the people at the top only think the people who come want to watch
modern, aerodynamic aircraft, then BBMF and Vulcan won't have a place in te display yet it could well be that one aircraft that gets them to part with a dollar for a ticket.

So IMHO, the bigger the spread of aircraft, the bigger the crowds.

[2Planks]

Given that a Concorde arrival and departure could reportedly put 10 000 extra folk through the gate at Finningley in the 90s (when it could be seen at LHR everyday) I suspect RIAT (and therefore the charities) will lose out.

[TheWizard]

I suspect that the UK debut of the F35 will more than compensate for most people.
I doubt RIAT will lose out.

[NutLoose]

The F35 is going to be here for the next 35 years... There is a limited time window on seeing the Vulcan.... The clocks a ticking and it seems odd not to take advantage of it while they still can.

[diginagain]

You'll soon be able to see it every day, parked-up at Robin Hood International.

[Training Risky]

tame display

What!?

I beg to differ. I had the honour to reveal the spectre of the tin triangle to my 2 young boys last year on our own seafront. The sheer gut wrenching force of the display made me realise that you can stick your plastic jets up your ar$e!:ok:

[H Peacock]

Not sure what the going rate is this year, but I believe that in previous years the Vulcan has charged an exorbitant fee to attend/display. The Vulcan might pull in a few more ticket sales, but for a display organiser with a limited budget and limited display slots I can easily see how it has now priced itself out of the market.

[gr4techie]

A few years a go I did a 280 mile round trip just to see the Vulcan fly. It did not even get off the ground. But what annoyed me the most is they then asked for donations.

[CoffmanStarter]

Rather see something flying aerodynamically ...

That rules out the F-35 then :E

[dctyke]

Stuff that comes out of the Vulcan camp is not always as it seems. I would be interested where they placed themselves on the table of attendance fees, my bet would be at the very top by a distance. Maybe even too high for RIATs budget. Great shame though.

[Tankertrashnav]

We were naturally disappointed when 558 was not able to put in an appearance at the V-Force Reunion (http://www.vforcereunion.co.uk/) this year as she had done, free of charge, at the 2012 reunion.

I suppose its fair to say that we are hardly representative of the general public, being somewhat biased, but I am still somehat bemused by a few comments such as those of gzornenplatz and reds and greens. It's the fact that it is a great big aircraft "lurching about the sky" which appeals to the crowd.

[gamecock]

I hope the organisers of RIAT become aware of this thread and the strength of feeling about XH558.

Just look at the comments on the RIAT FB page - I think they're more than aware!

[CoffmanStarter]

I'm looking forward to the Lightning doing an energetic QRA takeoff ... rotating at the end of the runway and departing vertical on a full AB plume ... levelling off at FL Nose Bleed ... then returning for a few very Fast Passes with plenty of G in the horizontal turns ... followed by some nice Inverted Flight down the runway CL. Forget car alarms ... I trust we'll have plenty of local structural damage ... greenhouses getting airborne and enough noise to clear the earwax out of the anti-mil-low-flying NIMBY community.


Oops ... just checked the RIAT website ... thats the LM Lightning not the EE Lightning ... yet another disappointment then :(

[Wander00]

CS - shame, but "nice one"

[airpolice]

2 Planks, you may be interested to see how little money that the genuine aviation charities actually get from the airshow business.

[Fareastdriver]

No great loss, lurching around the sky with great boots of rudder. Rather see something flying aerodynamically.

Obviously an aviation expert, with stacks of hours at the controls of aircraft.

[cornish-stormrider]

so, the doom bringing tin triangle isnt displaying at RIAT.....

GOOD

it saves a few extremely precious flying hours that might mean it is still able to do something when my wee monster will appreciate it.
although saying that, Plymouth armed forces day has the RAF displaying the.....


wait for it......




Tutor

Has someone in charge been toking on a crack pipe????

A tutor, FFS.

I know I don't pay much taxes but what I do pay I want VFM, where is my tiffin?

But if they were to bring 558 down here for a display over the sound - I would wager an awful lot of the viewing spots would be full to bursting.

[devonianflyer]

RIAT have offered the following statement about the decision to not have the Vulcan displaying.

Royal Air Force Charitable Trust Enterprises - News: Vulcan Statement (http://www.airtattoo.com/news/2014/may/30/vulcan-statement)

Personally, I agree with them. Whilst the Vulcan is great, and the team have done a great job getting it flying again, they and their supporters should realise there are other aircraft out there and the display world doesn't (rightly) revolve entirely around XH558.

DF

(standing by for incoming...)

[BEagle]

We briefed our plans to mark the 50th anniversary of the Red Arrows Display Season, a momentous occasion for our Royal Air Force, which meant in all probability that the full scope of the operational aprons at the eastern end of the airfield would be filled with both the Reds and all the international aerobatic teams that we had invited for this celebration.

'Momentous occasion'? :hmm:

I hope that the feedback the RIAT organisers have experienced will make the point that 'no Vulcan = no airshow' for many.

But there'll be the usual crop of C-130s and F-16s, of course. F-35B will doubtless be hidden in its hangar surrounded by goons with guns when not displaying....:rolleyes:

Has RIAT had its day?

Will the RAF be showing Voyager, Sentinel or the RC-135?

[Finningley Boy]

Not bothered either way personally, but the "duty of care" argument seems a bit thin - just cannot see air show enthusiast being objectionable to Pleming's team

Wander00,

There was a story on ukar back in 2009 I believe about how the Vulcan cancelled, on either one of the two days, at the Biggin Hill Air Fair, some character pitched up at the Vulcan to the Sky stand and enquired about its absence from the day's flying in a rather blunt and misinformed manner. I believe the chap had previously imbibed, a copious amount as well, going by the witness report.:}

FB:)

[500N]

devon

It's not about the Vulcan itself and I agree and the display world doesn't (rightly) revolve entirely around XH558.

It's about the whole package and having a great, loud, smokey bomber from days past is just one of the experiences that can't be supplanted by something else. IMHO, the Vulcan is awe inspiring.


Yes, I have seen the Vulcan fly, and the Lancaster and the Spitfire and Hurricane and a whole load of modern jet aircraft.

[Darvan]

Hmmmmm. Something fishy about this. I don't believe either of the press release statements. I shall ask some questions but may not be able to post an answer.

[devonianflyer]

500N

I guess my point was if RIAT had decided that the theme of the year was celebrating a rotary flight achievement or milestone would it still be essential to have XH558 attend to 'complete the package'?

If it's essential for the Vulcan to be there to complete someone's airshow experience there will be plenty of other opportunities in the year around the UK. We are after all lucky to have it flying in our country and a good spread of air shows and events across the country through the year.

[Willard Whyte]

Fishy? About the lack of Vulcan or the reasons behind it?

If the former riat certainly isn't mentioned on the display list for 2014 (http://www.vulcantothesky.org/appearances.html)

[500N]

OK, understand.

[Finningley Boy]

Beagle,

RIAT is probably, along with Waddington and to some extent Yeovilton the only three airshows worth a candle in terms of military contribution in the U.K. these days. A lot due to the simple contraction of the R.A.F. (no more Leuchars). On top of the contraction of the service, there is the added problem of PFI. I believe it is a part of the contractual obligation that aircraft leased to the Armed Forces don't get aerobated around for public entertainment and suspect that this why at Culdrose this year, as always, their new Avengers will not be getting aloft while there are punters at large same goes for the Hawk T2s at Valley, they are subject to PFI arrangements.

Therefore, increasingly, the stuff that's impressive at airshows will be ex-military types in private hands. That evermore used collective description "Cold War types" or "Classic Jets" and "Warbirds". As it is, for the first time, Waddington's military line up this year is slightly overshadowed by all the classic jets, especially what's coming from the Swedish Historic Flight and Culdrose is entirely reliant on any parafin burning this year being from the private collector's air force.

The more thins change the more they stay the same eh!:ok:

FB:)

[jumpseater]

VTTS We were instead offered a static position for XH558 crowd-side with a nearby site for the Vulcan Village. However we have a duty of care to those of our volunteers who staff the Vulcan Village not to risk exposing them to visitors expecting to see XH558 flying who complain that she is not.

For this reason, and the significant costs involved in bringing XH558, the Vulcan Village and the team to Fairford for the weekend, we have decided to decline RIAT's offer of a static position


FB There was a story on ukar back in 2009 I believe about how the Vulcan cancelled, on either one of the two days, at the Biggin Hill Air Fair, some character pitched up at the Vulcan to the Sky stand and enquired about its absence from the day's flying in a rather blunt and misinformed manner. I believe the chap had previously imbibed, a copious amount as well, going by the witness report.

I get the financial reasons, no problems with that, but what a load of :mad: regarding risking exposing staff to airshow visitors. It does beg the question how Vulcan supporters will behave if they turn up somewhere and have a tech problem for a whole weekend. Makes you wonder how civvy airlines get on dealing with thousands of disrupted passengers during significant delays, and they can get a bit 'shouty' believe me! Cracking way for VTTS to imply that their supporters can't be trusted to behave themselves :ugh: You may get a few twats turn up, but numbers large enough to cause concern? What next Vulcan fans throwing bog rolls across the runway and having their own 'Inter-City' firm?:D

edited to add quotes to first para

[gzornenplatz]

Absolutely true.

[dagenham]

I can see it now 558 crew or Vulcan patrol.. Next thing they will be standing for parliament!!!

It is probably the safety of the good doctor.... The Vulcan does seem to arouse the blood pressure of the aircraft preservation movement! Due to plemings constant appeals for money and the belief this takes away cash from other equally worthy projects!

Personally... Having seen the Vulcan display under the old rules it was an awe inspiring sight! Last time I saw it at goodwood it might as well have been displaying in the next county..... Oh it was:ugh:

[Abbey Road]

In my opinion, there is likely more to the story of the Vulcan not displaying at RIAT 2014. I would hazard a guess that Pleming is probably also asking for more dosh than RIAT are willing to stump up?

Whilst Pleming is well known for constantly having his begging bowl out, RIAT organisers are hardly innocent when it comes to financial matters. I agree with comments that military charities get a lot less of the income from such events than people think. My past experiences at RIAT, as crew for static aircraft, leads me to think that an unnecessarily sizeable chunk of it is blown on wining, dining and chaffeur-driven cars for the RIAT 'elite', many of whom are superbly pompous 4rseholes. :rolleyes:

[Willard Whyte]

dagenham, shame your Goodwood-Vulcan experience was less than satisfactory, they normally get down to 'treetop' height...

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk151/MP4-23/177.jpg

[ScrewballScramble]

I can't help thinking there's been too many instances of calling wolf by the Vulcan team as well? I wonder how many years they've been given a booking favour because it's the last year she'll be flying?

[Flying Lawyer]

BEagle 'Momentous occasion'? :hmm: Why the :hmm: ?
Surely the 50th display season of a team which in its second season became the world's premier aerobatic display team, and transformed formation aerobatic displays, is a significant event which should be celebrated?


That said, I think it's a great pity the Vulcan will not be displaying.

Tim Prince, co-founder of the Air Tattoo (North Weald 1971) and until recently CEO of RIAT sums up the impact of a Vulcan display very well:"There are few aircraft flying today that can match the Vulcan's beauty and sheer thunderous power.
In my mind, it is one of a handful of legendary aircraft, including the Spitfire and Concorde that has the ability to stir the emotions." "It was people's love for the Vulcan and their desire to see it fly again that enabled the incredible fundraising team to do the impossible and bring this amazing aircraft back to flying condition."I agree. :ok:

It would be wonderful to see a solo display followed by a repeat of this:

http://www.aereo.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/red-arrows-e-vulcan-foto-raf-wo-rick-brewe.jpg






ScrewballScramble
Calling wolf? :confused:
Every year is potentially the last year year the Vulcan will fly - for very obvious genuine reasons.

"a booking favour" :confused:
See the above quotes from the recently retired CEO of RIAT.


FL

[Blanket Stacker]

Tim Prince is still the CEO. He doesn't retire until after this year's show.

[Mick Strigg]

She will be displaying at Yeovilton Air Day on 26 July, so come and see her there!

[cleanair]

We have tickets to take our 4 year old the Cosford airshow this Sunday. We booked once we saw the Vulcan would be flying there.
Can't wait:ok:

[Sandy Parts]

maybe the Vulcan team could take a leaf from the Brize book and send out a baby-mover to announce the cancellation of flights - then run and hide from the reaction :E

[Treble one]

I don't want to cause unnecessary anxiety, but as far as I know XH558 has not been off the ground yet in 2014. I understand engine runs took place at the end of last week.

However, Cosford is days away and there will be test flights/crew currency flights and PDA to get prior to a public appearance-there are those on here far better qualified to comment on how much time/what is involved in getting that done than me.

I would be unfortunate given the situation with the non booking at RIAT if this magnificent beast could not be seen at Cosford due to time running out due some technical issues (wing mods/fuel tanks I believe?)

Happy to be corrected by those who know better than me.

[cleanair]

I hope it doesn't come to a cancellation for this Sunday, I have a very excited little boy who has made me play vulcan YouTube clips every day since we told him we were taking him to see it fly for his 4th birthday :eek:treat.:eek:

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

what a load of :mad: regarding risking exposing staff to airshow visitors. It does beg the question how Vulcan supporters will behave if they turn up somewhere and have a tech problem for a whole weekend. Makes you wonder how civvy airlines get on dealing with thousands of disrupted passengers during significant delays, and they can get a bit 'shouty' believe me! Cracking way for VTTS to imply that their supporters can't be trusted to behave themselves :ugh: You may get a few twats turn up, but numbers large enough to cause concern?


A tad harsh IMHO.

If the aircraft is planned to display but goes u/s, it will be viewed differently to the aircraft being planned not to display.

In the airport scenario, the airport workers are paid to deal with the angry pax. It's their job. The cost of entry to RIAT is similar to some cheap airline fares (ie disappointed punters may be nearly as grumpy) but VTTS rely on volunteers to handle the public and gather the cash. Taking lots of flak from Joe Public = no volunteers = no Vulcan.

And plenty of the people who would grumble the loudest are those who haven't given a penny towards keeping the Vulcan flying, so the statement is hardly a dig at the VTTS supporters.

That being said, both parties will lose out the way this has turned out, as well as the viewing public - one hopes things will be different next time...

[Treble one]

I hope not too or there will be a very disappointed cleanair junior, and no amount of 'currency/test flight/PDA' explanations will be good enough for him, I suspect...

If the worst does come to the worst, you could maybe save the situation somewhat by taking the young chap to see Cosford's resident Vulcan in their Cold War museum....?

I hope we see XH558 in all her glory where she belongs (in the air) this Sunday.

[Treble one]

As Chief Executive, I wish to make clear the following:

•We recognise the Vulcan's importance to the UK and from the outset of their project we have assisted the laudable efforts of the VTTS team in many different ways. We consider ourselves to be among its many supporters and as such, have funded its participation in every Air Tattoo since 558 took to the sky again.
•RIAT is and always will be an international military air show. It relies almost entirely on the goodwill of overseas air forces taking part with aircraft from around the world and predominantly at their expense. This year we have been allocated a host of fantastic aircraft that, along with aircraft that are funded by important sponsors, have filled our flying display programmes on all three days.
•We are genuinely sorry that our offer to pay for the Vulcan to attend as a static exhibit and to provide, without charge, valuable exhibition space for the Vulcan Village over three days, has been turned down by VTTS. This offer remains, even though it would be at considerable cost to our RAF Charitable Trust owned organisation.
•As the company has gone about promoting, planning and selling tickets for RIAT 2014, we have not suggested in any of our activities that the Vulcan will be a participant. Our website is updated each Thursday at midday with participating aircraft when they have been officially confirmed; it can be viewed here (http://www.airtattoo.com/airshow/visiting/aircraft/aircraft-confirmed).

I have highlighted in bold some of the text myself.

Cat, pigeons?

[Treble one]

Twitter is saying that XH558 is where she should be-in the air with Kev Rumens and Martin Withers in the driving seats.

[AndoniP]

Personally I find RIAT to be one of the best airshows in the UK. If you've seen the Vulcan many times in the past and listened to the "yes, THAT Martin Withers" guff that the commentator rolls out each time, then you may not be that bothered about seeing it this year. Hopefully both parties have learnt from this whatever the reason (or real reason) may be.

I feel for people like cleanair's boy, the older generation will have seen the thing fly anyway.

Having read the chairman's comments, I reckon VTTS were looking for much much more for the Vulcan to appear, thinking RAFCTE would pay up, they refused, both parties now giving their excuses.

[dagenham]

Wow great picture from goodwood

Where you in the car park? I was up in the kimera enclosure and couldn't see much at all and it seemed the display was over tangmere !

I don't think pluming does himself any favours.... Shame bbmf don't fly the vulcan.... A trio of lanc, Vulcan and a mossie....... One day when my euro millions comes up

[cleanair]

Thanks for the update, fingers crossed for this Sunday.
We live only 40 minutes from Cosford so my little man has us there at least 3 times a year!
That is where all the excitement is being generated from in the first place. Every day we have to try out his ear plugs and defenders to make sure he will be ready for sunday :ok:

[NutLoose]

:) so cool to see the youth of today so into aviation.

[Treble one]

I understand that there was a second flight later this afternoon and there was talk of practice displays at Scampton and possibly Elvington.


It seems that cleanair junior will be smiling this weekend, which is good news for all concerned...

[Willard Whyte]

Wow great picture from goodwood

Where you in the car park? I was up in the kimera enclosure and couldn't see much at all and it seemed the display was over tangmere !

I think I was somewhere between the first & second turns at the time, judging by the shots of cars either side of the Vulcan display. It was back in 2010.

[Wycombe]

Whilst it will be interesting to see the F35 "in the flesh" for the first time (for most), evidence previously posted on this forum suggests that looking at a parked Vulcan may be more exciting than seeing the new wonderjet's display.

There really has to be more to this than is being made public - having sat on both sides of the RIAT fence, and witnessed the juggling act (even in the week of the show) to get things into the display at short notice, mixed civ/mil displays approved etc etc, I cannot believe this is simply a matter of there not being time in the programme for the Vulcan to have a 7 minute slot.

[The Oberon]

Cleanair

Yes, it did appear over Scampton prior to Elvington, and very nice it was to.

[cleanair]

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone involved in putting on such a great airshow this past Sunday, everyone worked so hard to produce such a memorable day for all of us to enjoy.
Myself, Mrs Cleanair and Cleanair junior had a wonderful day and yes we had the pleasure of seeing the Avro Vulcan display. My 4 year old is now a lifetime fan. We were lucky with a fantastic sunny day with just a couple of showers which didn't spoil anything.
We had some pretty cool cloud formations which helped towards producing some of the best photographs I have ever taken.
With so many highlights it would be hard to name them all. Fantastic value for money and we will be back next year.