Falkland Question

[helmet fire]

Recently met a bloke claiming to be, amongst other things, a "RN Special Forces diver". WTF?

Anyway, whilst crapping on over a cold one, old mate claims to have been a 20year old middy during the Falklands. he reckons that Tornados were bombing there - off a carrier! Doesnt sound right to me, but I wasn't there.

My questions:

1. were Tornados even operational by then?
2. did they EVER operate from a carrier?
3. were ANY Tornados used in the Falklands - perhaps after gaining control of the airfield?
4. at any time prior to the Argentine surrender did a Brit warship sit "less then 2 miles off Beunos Aries" to threaten them?
5. what is the plural of Tornado - Tornados or Tornadoes?
6. is old mate full of it, or just a bit confused?

Thanks in advance.

[ORAC]

1. The first operational GR1 Sqn (9 Sqn) only formed in June 82 - the month the war finished.
2. No, impossible.
3. No, not till years after the war when MPA completed.
4. No.
5. Tornadoes.
6. Full of it.

[BEagle]

There were some theoretical studies conducted into the feasibility of trailing the then new Tornado to carry out attacks on the Islas Malvinas - it was impossible to do so from Ascension. No Tornado was ever used in the conflict.

It is rare to need a plural for 'Tornado' - apart from '1 went u/s on the ground, 2 and 3 are dealing with an in-flight emergency, so I'll be the only one going on to the range slot - 3 out of our 4 planned Tornadoes have gone t.its up'

[helmet fire]

Thanks ORAC & BEagle.

Thought as much.

He is dating the mother in law! Normally that would be good..... but I actually like the mother in law!!

:D

[Jimlad]

as i understand it, to be a diver one must have been a rating - Officers can't enter directly as a diver, and I know few if any who've been given diving training along the way.

The only SF I think he's referring to is the SBS - which I thought was booties only.

Ask him what rank he achieved, his branch and career structure and ask him if he ever served on a ship that you know was scrapped before 1982 - eg HMS Blake, HMS Bulwark, etc etc
that should catch him out.

[callsign Metman]

Or ask him to explain a depth excursion to you!

CM

[ragspanner]

Ask to polish his medals.

[Molesworth Hold]

This has become a problem of epidemic proportions in the US. It’s estimated that 100,000 Americans have invented a military background for themselves including politicians and media “personalities.” There are so many fake SEALS that there is a website http://cyberseals.org/ that has a wall of shame of all of these deadbeats.

[steamchicken]

Hmmmm.....I wonder how many there are in the UK? Every pub has its own SAS bull****ter, except for one on Benbecula where they share him with two other islands!

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Nothing annoys me more than a Walter Mitty.

[Arkroyal]

Wassisname? Andrew Windsor? BS to the brim!:rolleyes:

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Ahoy there Jimlad (sorry......couldn't resist)

You are wrong about divers. It has only been in the last couple of years that ratings have been allowed to join directly as divers. Officers have been joining as MCDOs for many, many years.

Clearence Divers are sometimes considered to be special forces, due to their selection and training. As for the SBS, a VERY reliable person told me that there are RN personnel (ie matelots) in the SBS, not just Bootnecks.

[Jimlad]

you may be wrong there - as I understand it MCDO is only open to ratings initially - I don't know a single officer (and I know many of them) who is an MCDO by branch. Rather they went in and ended up as MCDO.

It is possible that RN personnel work alongside the SBS, but I am fairly sure that they are booties only - maybe someone more qualified could comment.

[Art Field]

Jim lad, if I understood a word of what you wrote, I still would not be able to answer you being ex Crab. I know we all have our cryptics but MCDO? Booties?.
On the original subject, a certain gentleman, now very senior in the Defence Staff, drove the AAR planners crazy trying to get them to come up with a plan to get Tornado's down to the Falklands. Not a hope without a 2000 mile swim back.

[keiysersaucy]

Oberon class diesel electric subs were sat off the end of Argie bober bases (the ones near the water that is ) giving early warning of raids, but I do concur with the rest of the posts. Your friend is full of it

[Skylark4]

Be a Hero son. Go save your Mother in law. What other lies is this fellow spouting. probably already has a wife or two he`s forgotten about. Find out if he`s after her money. Don`t say she hasn`t got any, how about a second mortgage on her house, it`s been done before.

Mike W

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Booties = Bootnecks = Royal Marines

MCDO = Mine Clearence and Diving Officer (RN Officer trade)

Man who claimed carrierbornes Tornadoes were used in Falklands = in need of a slap.

[helmet fire]

Thanks guys, all much appreciated.

I checked out that REAL SEAL website - blew me away. Weird how they even need such a site.....

I will attempt to fing out the name of the ship he was on and get back to you.

Can't....type....now...., must...save...mother-in-law.....



:D

[DamienB]

Did he not mention a time machine at all?

Because close examination of a photograph taken in 82 reveals a suspicious looking character on deck; clearly the Tornado itself has been parked out of sight though.

http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co.uk/bollocks.jpg

[Bradders]

Apparently there have been some RN Clearance Divers who have successfully completed SBS selection.

I was a Bootie before I defected to to the crabs!!

[Divergent Phugoid!]

That looks rather like John Nicol!! That explains it it was a XV Fin Parked on the deck out of sight!!

[canberra]

no tornados(the official mod plural) werent in the falklands! for those who dont know bootie or bootneck is a royal marine. as for the sbs i was under the impression it was merging with the sas, one of mods most sensible decisions. i wonder if uncle sam will see the light and merge the seals and green berets? on the subject of things getting close to the argentinean coast nimrods got to within 50nm.

[ORAC]

Canberra, you're wrong. The official MOD spelling is Tornadoes.

See Iraq (http://www.mod.uk/aboutus/factfiles/operations.htm)

See also Hansard (Column 665 - Rolls-Royce Engines (Tornadoes))


Hansard (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199495/cmhansrd/1995-11-07/Writtens-1.html)

[alandhall]

Don't the German Navy use Tornado(e)s off carriers? Or am I dreaming pretty pictures again?

:p

[Molesworth Hold]

If I lived in Wrexham I think I would prefer to live in my own little fantasy world. I believe you’re mistaken.

[Tbird]

The Germans don't fly Tornados off carriers. The German Navy doesn't even have any carriers, thus deploying Tornados on them could pose a problem. All thier Tornados are land based :)

[Talking Radalt]

Does this particular barfly also claim he:

Was part of the Princes Gate "Balcony Scene" ;)

Shot JFK

Rode Shergar away

Assisted Lord Lucan in his "getaway"

Piloted a B17 to the moon

Knows the reason toast always lands jam-side down

Is Elvis (uh huh)

Just thought while he's spouting such complete toss he might be able to answer a few of life's other little mysteries?:rolleyes:

[MarkD]

Tbird is right, no German carriers, but the German Navy does operate some anti-ship role Tornadoes I think, from land bases.

As for the Oberons operating off Argentina, that's yet another capability HMG has disposed of, with the Upholder class diesel subs sold to Canada, leaks and all :D

[ORAC]

marinefliegerflottille (http://marinefliegerflottille.de/flugzeuge/tornado.html)

[Snapshot]

A WGN Fin from Marinefliegergeshwader 2,
based at Eggebek, Germany.

http://members.lycos.co.uk/Buccaneer/aircraft/tornadogr1/TornadoWGN4535.jpg

Snapshot

[newswatcher]

ORAC,

The MOD site for RAF has "Tornados"! See:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/airpower/tornado_rec.html

but generally use made of model, as in Tornado GR4As.

[ORAC]

But I can also point you at:

raf.mod.uk (http://www.raf.mod.uk/history/h17.html)
kosovo.mod.uk (http://www.kosovo.mod.uk/brief150599.htm)

As well as dozens of other sites.


But you may be right, John Nichol's calls them Tornadoes as well, so maybe I'm wrong!! :D

John Nichol (http://www.johnnichol.com/)