Discrimination at South African Airways - Cadet Pilot

[TODA.1]

South African Airways: Discrimination at 30,000 feet | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2014/05/south-african-airways)

'SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS (SAA) has been taken to task by Solidarity, a trade union, over its discriminatory hiring practices for pilots. The union is angry with the state-owned carrier's decision not to admit Daniël Hoffman to its cadet pilot programme for the second year in a row. Mr Hoffman, whose theory and psychometric tests were described as exceptional by Solidarity, is a white male. That puts him at a handicap against other applicants because of the airline's self-professed bias towards hiring black, coloured (mixed race), Indian or white female pilots.'

[Freddie0000]

Well it seems the shoe is on the other foot these days .
I wonder how many non white cadets were hired in the apartheid era I cant hear you oh thats right a big 0

[contrails8]

Here is the crux of the matter. The cadet pilot program for SAA is a bit different to the other companies. Other companies start their program because based on their expansion plans where they foresee the need for extra pilots hence they have to train them. SAA doesn't have a shortage of pilots and at the current pace of company growth and the number of pilots that South Africa produces, there will never be. So, you must be wondering , why the cadets....Aviation in south africa is well dominated by one race which happens to be the minority in the country, and truth be told not the biggest support base for the current regime. Now the government tells SAA, the pilot compliment must include the other races and short of it the cadet pilot program was born. Not out of the need of it but to balance the numbers by theory that if they can train them, then they have a pool to select. Having said that SAA has been recruiting a lot in recent years owing to retirements and each year and the majority of recruits are still white male by a large margin (ask around if you don't believe) which doesn't sit very well with the shareholder.

So if there was no need to balance the numbers, there wouldn't be a cadet pilot program at SAA I tell you. Now, people don't ask me about the fairness and BEE etc, don't shoot the messenger.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Well it seems the shoe is on the other foot these days .
I wonder how many non white cadets were hired in the apartheid era I cant hear you oh thats right a big 0


So let me get this straight...

Apartheid from one lot is a bad thing, but when the other lot do it, everything is well and good. What happened to the non racial society everyone was looking forward to back in '94? It appears the whole liberation hair pulling exercise was merely a ploy to get a different collection of snouts in the trough.

[Oldaircrew]

One thing that does irritate me is when some-one has an opinion without having a clue. For a start, SAA never had a cadet programme during the apartheid years. So the number of whites hired by this process has always been big fat 0.

Secondly, the whole point of the "struggle" was to eliminate discrimination. Whilst I understand that there is going to be some demographic correction, the ANC is no different to the Nat government of the past. Racist is racist, it does not matter whether you are black or white.

( I am sure there is a song in there somewhere)

[Capetonian]

It appears the whole liberation hair pulling exercise was merely a ploy to get a different collection of snouts in the trough.
The new lot are bigger, fatter, greedier, more corrupt, less competent, and responsible for more death, disease, and misery in their 20 years than the Nats were in their 60 or so.

[ZFT]

..but totally acceptable to the likes of the US, EU and UK!!!!!!! Not quite right somehow.

[WhinerLiner]

The moronic argument that an unjust system which ended more than two decades ago justifies an almost identical system to exist now can only be supported by a system as deranged as the one that governs this once impressive country.

Those that benefit now from these rules are no better than those from the previous system. You are the apartheid system you claim to hate so much. Hendrik Vervoed has become your mentor.

See there was yet another article yesterday about the incompetent management and the infighting and wastage. If you cut SAA's umbilical cord to the taxpayers wallet it would disappear faster than DA votes in a Limpopo ballet box.

SAA is as rotten as they come.

[Trossie]

From Freddie0000:I wonder how many non white cadets were hired in the apartheid era I cant hear you oh thats right a big 0WRONG!!!!!

If it didn't infringe PPRuNe's don't-give-names policy I could name some of those non-white cadets. And some of them were very good too...

But to quote Oldaircrew, the number of white cadets at the time was a big fat 0.

As you don't know what you are talking about, just stay in the sandpit with your distorted ideas.

[wishiwasupthere]

I'm proud to be Asian, said the Asian man.

I'm proud to be black, said the black man.

I'm proud to be white, said the racist man.


:hmm:

[oompilot]

Absolutely brilliant. Now doesn't that just sum it all up.

[suitcaseman]

But nobody's proud to be Australian.

[DHC6to8]

I was just at the Q400 sim in Vienna and met up with two white SA instructors who complained how retarded and inncompetent the little young black lady is that was with them.... she has taken hours in the sim to marinally reach a level that others attain in less than half the time and have long progressed.... It is the truth... and the crazy part is that the instructors told me that they have to train her to standard...
I don't really care what color you are, your gender, your religion or your sexual preference... it should be and always remain that the best PERSON for the job gets the job... if that results in a flight operations roster of all white, or all black or all female pilots... then so be it... but, wasting time and money on people who are slotted to fill seats because they are a minority is pure insanity... I just don't get it....
After 20 years as a commercial pilot I have learned that not everybody has the ability and apptitude to successfully and safely operate commercial aircraft...

[cavortingcheetah]

Let is hope that it wasn't so recently as to permit easy identification of the two concerned by those who might haunt these hallowed pages for tittle and tattle at either the SA CAA or anywhere else in the dark corridors of power.

[Capetonian]

Prior to 1994, South Africa was a benign dictatorship under which whites enjoyed greater privileges than non-whites.

Post 1994, South Africa is a racist dictatorship under which a privileged elite of blacks subjugate the majority and practice racism against whites.

The lefties and do-gooders of the world got what they bleated for. Equality my arse. I often wonder how they live with themselves.

[lilflyboy262...2]

I've always said what DHC6 said but in a broader scale when we aren't just talking about race, but a country as a whole.
In an industry such as ours where lives are at risk, you want the best person at the controls, not the sub-standard but correct nationality/race/gender there.

[cavortingcheetah]

Dastardly rumour has it that some time ago the flight department at Eskom had to seriously curtail flight operations because a racist and sexist flight crew recruitment policy had led to personnel shortages. But then again, as one whispered, it was only a rumour, fit for these pages perhaps?

[pilotchute]

I worked for a large government department once. We had targets of not only the amount of women we had to recruit but also minority groups such as people with disabilities and certain ethnic backgrounds. We had a percentage target of our workforce that had to be made up of X amount of whoever by a certain date.

What happened is obvious. We had to take people that clearly weren't suitable for the role but made us look good on paper. We had to meet our "targets". What ended up happening is the same amount of work had to be done by fewer and fewer capable people who in turn left the department because of dramatically increased work load. When a senior manager blew the lid on the whole thing he was branded "sexist and racist".

All he did was tell the truth.

[1234554321]

Boohoooooo

[pilotchute]

1234554321,

Having fun being unemployed in Mexico? Trying to be an instructor without even having a medical?

[cavortingcheetah]

BooHoooooo!
A maudlin comment upon the suppurating pustule on the backside of Africa that goes hand in hand with BP and yet has nothing to do with petroleum!

[1234554321]

Pilotchute,

I'm glad they are still teaching you boys how to read.

[27ace]

I think (minority position on this thread since not much thought has gone into here before) that this thread adds no value.
Guys, if you apply for a job and don't get it, move on. Do not come here and call racism or reverse racism. The decision makers do not reside on pprune.
Secondly, it does not make it easier for all the rest of us here, we just switch off and wonder why pilots hate so much on other pilots.
Find a HRRUNE or some political forum to air your bias and views on black, white or colored pilots but not here please.
Third and finally, who is the moderator on this African forum. Does he/she exist or is dearly departed on a crash somewhere in DRC?

[cavortingcheetah]

There's the race card and then there's the job card. That's the one that's often played as a reverse logic excuse for the dealing of the first card.
As for how this thread plays out? It's been relatively straight forward so far, all sixes, sevens, jacks and spades with not a heart nor a queen in sight. How it goes from here depends upon the dealer and the pit boss whom, one sincerely hopes, is not banged up in the Congo, democratic or otherwise.

[pilotchute]

123,

I don't usually resort to those tactics but your comment didn't contribute anything to the thread at all. A five year old could have come up with better stuff than you. If you don't have anything remotely relevant to say, don't say anything. It makes you look like less of an idiot.

[1234554321]

Pil,
My comment did contribute. However, your reply to me is subjective. And by the way a five year old would be unable to post (according to the TOS), so I guess we would need to find other 'stuff' to gauge the level of perceived idiocy.

[cavortingcheetah]

This five year old has no trouble posting on these sacred pages whatsoever. My perambulator is, however, getting a little large for me. Not being inclined to touch an Airbus with a witch doctor's rattle, I'm thinking of buying myself a private spec B777. It's a super aircraft, easy to fly and there's a company in New Mexico that'll fit and kit bomb bay doors.

[Bucket]

The post '94 landscape was not going to flower up a rose filled garden of peace and beauty; change takes time and the various professional and governmental entities have sometimes found it, legitimately, challenging to reflect that change in the make-up of its workforce.

You simply cannot sack the incumbant white post-holders and replace them with a black individual. The legalities are highly questionable. Merit must be the overarching criteria and in this fundamental aspect, if no other, South Africa has often got it hopeless wrong and is now suffering the consequences.

However, having said that there are beacons of hope. I spend several years in SA teaching aspiring black student pilots, many of whom are with SAA. Exams are colour blind though other aspects of pilot assessment may not be.

But, in a country with so many intelligent, motivated and hard working young black people it sometimes perplexes me that a disproportionate amount of the rubbish seems to float to the very upper echelons. In many cases, white professionals have every reason to ask, 'is that the best you have?, of the black population. SA is competing with the world arena and the world really doesn't give a fig what colour you are.

For the whinging whites, get over yourself. I returned to my native Europe back in 2006. I loved my time in SA and tried my best to secure longer term employment there. But it was not to be.

It may take years for the situation in SA to find the true equilibrium it so desparately needs to function with any measure of normality. Perhaps it may never come.

If you're black and reading this, get over yourself too. Get out there, get on and get up. But do it properly and don't play the race card whilst you're doing it. International sport has a habit of weeding out only the best. Are you the best? ;)

[Capetonian]

it sometimes perplexes me that a disproportionate amount of the rubbish seems to float to the very upper echelons. There are those who openly support the ANC, and those who don't. That is the differentiating factor.

[MrBernoulli]

But, in a country with so many intelligent, motivated and hard working young black people it sometimes perplexes me that a disproportionate amount of the rubbish seems to float to the very upper echelons.

Nicely encapsulated! Sadly, it is not something that is ever likely to change. The clever, articulate folk look at the disproportionate 'rubbish' and say "I'm not staying here and putting up with this", and leave for somewhere where skills and expertise on merit are appreciated. This leaves the 'rubbish' to preside over a spiralling descent into corruption, misery and poverty. Where in Africa is it any different?

[Trossie]

Maybe Botswana?

[Bucket]

Many of the intelligent, motivated and hard working black people were/are also quite poor even by local standards. Going somewhere else presents very real cost issues. They simply cannot afford to.