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SpringHeeledJack
28th May 2014, 11:00
Why Google?s driverless cars change everything - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/10859937/Why-Googles-driverless-cars-change-everything.html)

I'm sure that in dense urban areas it would make sense and be possible, but elsewhere ? Who knows, maybe it will save the massive decline in country pubs :ok:



SHJ

probes
28th May 2014, 11:03
well, it does sound a bit pointless - until you realise it could be of great help to the visually impaired, for example (which might apply to the pub regulars before returning home, too, of course :E).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdgQpa1pUUE

mixture
28th May 2014, 11:17
until you realise it could be of great help to the visually impaired

Bloody hell no ! :eek:

If your present state of health does not permit you to drive a car then you should not be permitted to be the "driver" of a self-driving car.

The computer simply cannot be trusted 100% ... ever. You need to be able to override.

I think its all big one marketing gimmick.... I don't see much demand for the cars.

cattletruck
28th May 2014, 11:24
I thought public transport was the best driverless* transport around, but don't expect big business to invest in and expand on something that is already efficient.

* - someone else is driving, but it is the same effect.

TWT
28th May 2014, 12:25
Every cab I get here is a driverless car.The guy sitting up front is on the phone to his mates,fiddling with his despatch screen etc....

Whiskey Kilo Wanderer
28th May 2014, 16:09
I gather from reports that the much vaunted Driver-less Car will just have two buttons, Go & Stop.

In reality I suspect it should have three: [Ctrl] [Alt] [Delete]

Vitesse
28th May 2014, 16:23
I suppose it navigates by Google search results.

SEO will become a finer art than ever.

Capetonian
28th May 2014, 16:30
Until computer technology is perfect and 100% foolproof, and we all know when that will happen, I remain throroughly uncomfortable with this concept.

lomapaseo
28th May 2014, 16:49
Until computer technology is perfect and 100% foolproof, and we all know when that will happen, I remain throroughly uncomfortable with this concept.

Do you fly ETOPS ?

Capetonian
28th May 2014, 16:54
Of course I do, but why is that relevant? The aircraft operating ETOPS have at least a two man cockpit crew so if the computer systems failed there is still the possiblity of manual override.

probes
28th May 2014, 16:56
Until computer technology is perfect and 100% foolproof, and we all know when that will happen, I remain throroughly uncomfortable with this concept.
humans are neither perfect nor foolproof, still... :E

Well, actually I wonder: what about the skills we delegate to machines? Will they be totally lost from the memory of mankind one day? (who remembers any phone numbers? - phones do!)

Capetonian
28th May 2014, 17:04
To err is human. To make a total f***-up you need a computer. The f***-up will be directly proportional to the complexity and power of the computer.

Call me a cynic if you wish. I am one.

MG23
28th May 2014, 18:46
humans are neither perfect nor foolproof, still... :E

But the idea of having a human sitting in the driver's seat, ready to take over the instant the car doesn't know what to do, is ludicrous. At least when an autopilot does that, the crew probably have a couple of minutes to do something (even if it's just flying into the sea), not a split second.

This is the fundamental problem with the whole 'driverless car' mania. Automatic cruise control on a highway is probably not too hard, and useful; the roads are usually clear of anything but other traffic, so the car can handle most situations, come with warnings like 'do not use on icy roads', and hand back to the driver with plenty of warning when it can't handle something. But in a city? 'Oh crap, I'm on ice and skidding and a tire blew out when I hit the curb, and there's a mob of school kids crossing the road right in front of me. Brown pants exception thrown. Driver, take over.' Not gonna work.

And there's a huge gap to cover between the auto cruise control and '100% able to drive everywhere in any conditions while I'm getting drunk in the back seat with my girlfriend'.

Edit: BTW, I was reading a Lemon-Aid guide to new cars last night, and it would seem that even the now mandatory stability control computers are causing problems for quite a few drivers. If they can't get that to work reliably, good luck getting a driverless car to work.

ExXB
28th May 2014, 18:48
With the way the wankers drive around here I can't wait. Humans are not very good at driving even though most drivers think they are above average.

Saintsman
28th May 2014, 19:40
The way the law is written, it means that an occupant could be done for drink driving as they were 'in control of the vehicle'. So maybe no good for the pub.

innuendo
28th May 2014, 19:49
I thought I saw an article that said that the Google driverless car will have a max speed of 25 MPH. That will be just great to get stuck behind :rolleyes:

500N
28th May 2014, 19:51
Just push them out of the way !

or off the road ;)

fltlt
29th May 2014, 04:53
Can't wait until some 14 year old in his mothers basement eating Cheeto's decides to hack the system, sending each on a merry journey to nowhere.
Or decides to have them orbit at the local roundabouts.
LIDAR, GPS and Google maps are not infallible, nor secure.

500N
29th May 2014, 05:01
That would be funny.

Especially when the Police tried to pull the car over ! :O

Hempy
29th May 2014, 05:52
It's like talk of Autonomously piloted aircraft. If there isn't some 50 something grey headed dude with 4 big bars on his shoulders and what I expect is about 20,000 hours experience sitting up front doing a preflight... IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE! Pilots hardly fly the aircraft now, they are there for take-offs and landings; the rest of the time is essentially monitoring.

What are they monitoring?
The 'computer'.

Why?
In case it breaks!

Why do they think it might break?
EXPERIENCE TELLS US SO!

Capetonian, the only difference between a cynic and a realist is experience!

acbus1
29th May 2014, 06:11
But...what about all those speed cameras and the overpaid, low productivity, cushy pension Civil Servants who administer the fines?

It would be tragic for them. :{

Rwy in Sight
29th May 2014, 07:24
This morning I had the experience of a lady driving her Ford Ka literally on the middle of two lanes road. I feel driverless cars would be a hugh success with some people not meriting the privileges of a driver's licence.


Rwy in Sight

Lon More
29th May 2014, 08:05
If there isn't some 50 something grey headed dude with 4 big bars on his shoulders and what I expect is about 20,000 hours experience sitting up front doing a preflight... IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE Better not tell Reddo then.

BMW seem to have been making driverless cars for years. Never seen any sign of intelligence behind the wheel.

Hempy
29th May 2014, 08:35
If there isn't some 50 something grey headed dude with 4 big bars on his shoulders and what I expect is about 20,000 hours experience sitting up front doing a preflight... IM NOT GOING ANYWHERE Better not tell Reddo then.

Consider it a 'figure of speech' :) I have no prejudices against our poor fellows with the regressive gene, nor do I have any aversion to our female captains either. The stereotype fit my argument :)

Lon More
29th May 2014, 13:05
The stereotype fit my argument

or more likely the truth was bent to fit your prejudices :}

dazdaz1
29th May 2014, 13:34
I'm all for driverless cars, the thing is will they be capable of dodging potholes in the road?

This also would lead to a great chat up line......... Hey babe, how would you like to see the soles of your shoes in my wing mirrors as we drive:E

MagnusP
29th May 2014, 13:55
Ooooh! Classy! Does Juud know about you? :p

G-CPTN
29th May 2014, 14:28
I've not read all the articles, but I have yet to read how the driverless vehicle is instructed to choose the destination.

The demonstrations seem to be jollies around the starting point and not journeys as such.

Imagine replacing London taxis with these driverless cars - I believe that at least one airport has (or had) driverless cabs (running on some sort of track).

tdracer
29th May 2014, 15:47
Of course I do, but why is that relevant? The aircraft operating ETOPS have at least a two man cockpit crew so if the computer systems failed there is still the possiblity of manual override.

And what's your "manual override" for the FADEC?

Lon More
29th May 2014, 16:59
I believe that at least one airport has (or had) driverless cabs (running on some sort of track).
Gatwick, between terminals. That's pretty straightforward, like the DLR only one dimensional. and it took them ages to get that working properly. Cars move in 2 dimensions which complicates matters tremendously. You don't even want to think about aircraft moving in three dimensions

G-CPTN
29th May 2014, 18:23
I was around when Birmingham had the Maglev.

AirRail Link - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirRail_Link#Maglev)

Slightly different text:-
Maglev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maglev#Birmingham.2C_United_Kingdom.2C_1984.E2.80.931995)

cattletruck
30th May 2014, 08:56
One of the principles of classic engineering is being able to continue to function after the loss of the primary sensor by extrapolating from secondary sources.

I got a feeling that the boisterous people behind the driverless car are yet to discover this. Perhaps there are swamped by the shear number of variables they have to to contend with.

onetrack
30th May 2014, 09:12
Driverless cars will come, it's only a matter of time. All that's needed is sensor guide lines installed on our current roads (this could be something as simple as line of metallic tape glued to the pavement edge) - and the cars sensors can be organised to follow the metallic tape, or keep a set distance from it.

Distance from the car ahead can be measured by current technology, and there are already cars on the market with automatic braking ability, if you get too close to the car in front.
GPS and vastly-improved Google Maps will play a big part in the operation of driverless cars.

The roads with driverless technology will be excluded to anyone driving a regular car, and the regular cars will be restricted to the ever-decreasing number of roads without the magnetic tape and other guide devices.

Excavators and dump trucks on minesites and iron ore trains already have driverless technology - it won't take long for the technology to improve out of sight and transfer across to minesite vehicles, then regular road vehicles.

One factor that will drive it is cost reduction in transport. A trucking company will save millions annually by firing all their drivers.

Robotics | Perth (http://walterfarah.net/tag/perth/)

Drones Come Down to Earth with Driverless Vehicle Reality (http://machinedesign.com/constructionoff-road/drones-come-down-earth-ugvs-and-driverless-vehicles-reality)

Hempy
30th May 2014, 09:31
Can you imagine the legal waivers you'd have to sign to buy one? Westminster Law says goods must be 'fit for purpose' (see Carlill v Carbolic i.e 101). If a company sells one of these on the premise that they are 'driverless', legally they are driverless FOREVER. Legally they can't ever fail and cause say a multi-fatality collision. I can see lawyers gathering in the driveway of the first person to be delivered home from the dealership in one....

Hempy
30th May 2014, 10:03
A lot of cars round here seem to be driverless already.

I'd say brainless but it depends on your definition of 'driver'..

MagnusP
30th May 2014, 10:21
What we really need are riderless bicycles. :E

vulcanised
30th May 2014, 11:39
Wot, no bouncing boobies?

MagnusP
30th May 2014, 11:41
No bicycle required. The Chive's "Things that bounce" pages are testament.

(I think I'm channelling Slasher)

G-CPTN
30th May 2014, 11:48
The roads with driverless technology will be excluded to anyone driving a regular car, and the regular cars will be restricted to the ever-decreasing number of roads without the magnetic tape and other guide devices.
Witness the guided busways, where guided buses occupy discrete routes (largely) denied to other vehicles.
Guided bus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guided_bus)

ORAC
8th May 2015, 15:21
Driverless truck hits the road in Nevada (http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/americas/article4433693.ece)

The world’s first self-driving truck has been given the go-ahead to take to the highways of Nevada, a development that promises to make drivers’ jobs less arduous before phasing them out altogether.

The 18-wheel Freightliner Inspiration was unveiled this week in Las Vegas by Daimler AG, the German company that owns brands including Mercedes-Benz, and has been licensed to operate in the state. Using an array of sensors, the truck is capable of staying inside its lane on a road and of maintaining a minimum distance between itself and the vehicle in front. A human is required to sit behind the wheel, ready to take over in case of an emergency, but on long, straight roads they can sit back. “You can enjoy the scenery,” one test driver explained. “It’s very relaxing”.

Working truckers and their unions are likely to be less enthused — the ultimate aim, after all, is to remove humans from behind the wheel. For now, though, “technically speaking, these vehicles are operating ‘partly automated’, ” said Wolfgang Bernhard, head of Daimler’s truck division. “So [the driver] is still in charge of what happens. He’s responsible.”

Nevada, one of America’s least crowded states, is the first region in the world to permit the use of self-driving trucks. As many as nine out ten truck crashes involve human error, often attributed to fatigue.

“An autonomous system never gets tired, never gets distracted,” said Dr Bernhard. However it cannot drive itself on smaller local roads and is unable to perform tricky manoeuvres, such as backing into a loading bay. Its sensors require clearly visible, white lane stripes, so it is unable to operate in snow or on poorly maintained highways........

MG23
8th May 2015, 18:08
The world’s first self-driving truck has been given the go-ahead to take to the highways of Nevada, a development that promises to make drivers’ jobs less arduous before phasing them out altogether.

Note they're driving through Nevada in the summer, not Manitoba in the depths of winter.

And I'm guessing crooks are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of stopping these things once they're really driverless, and looting them well before anyone can get there to do anything about it.

Ancient Observer
8th May 2015, 18:12
Given that ALL cyclists and maybe 30% of drivers drive in London with their brains entirely disengaged, maybe a driverless car and better still, a driverless bike, would be a massive improvement.

DirtyProp
9th May 2015, 07:59
Driverless cars?
About time, damn it!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B51SUShCQAAq-QU.jpg:large
http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/191289/Woman

ORAC
9th May 2015, 08:05
And I'm guessing crooks are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of stopping these things once they're really driverless, and looting them well before anyone can get there to do anything about it. Think about the advantages as is.

Trucker gets on the freeway for a 12+ hour drive; engages auto and joins a road train; then gets in his bunk and goes to sleep for 8 hours and gets up legal for another shift when the freeway part of the trip ends. It totally changes the hours/cost/time dynamics of road freight.

Jetex_Jim
9th May 2015, 12:01
One consequence of driverless cars will have to be a way of qualifying the necessary safety critical software that must be developed to implement them.

Safety critical code, when produced by the aerospace industry is enormously costly to qualify. But the high cost is lost within the general high cost of development.

The auto industry will need, and will likely devise, cheaper methods of developing and proving such software. This can only be a good thing and should eventually benefit any machine that contains safety critical/mission critical software.

MarcK
9th May 2015, 17:26
I think we should let Airbus do it.

Out Of Trim
9th May 2015, 18:10
Yes, let Airbus do it!

Retard, Retard, Sacre Bleu! Eject Eject Eject....:{

Jetex_Jim
10th May 2015, 03:58
I think we should let Airbus do it.
Schadenfreude?

Loose rivets
10th May 2015, 11:40
And I'm guessing crooks are rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of stopping these things once they're really driverless, and looting them well before anyone can get there to do anything about it.


HAL and I had yet another jolly good laugh about that.:E