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View Full Version : Pope Francis a friend to Palestine.


cavortingcheetah
26th May 2014, 09:31
Quite disregarding the influence, in one form or another, that they exert upon the United States, wailings and lamentations have been heard from the halls of hypocrisy.

Israel says PA put ?huge pressure on pope? to visit security barrier | JPost | Israel News (http://www.jpost.com/Elections-2013/Jlem-PA-put-huge-pressure-on-pope-to-visit-security-barrier-354352)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/10855742/Israel-will-speak-to-the-Vatican-about-Popes-unscheduled-stop-near-an-Israeli-built-barricade.html

Sallyann1234
26th May 2014, 09:42
"but we’re not very happy that they used the pope as a political vehicle or tool to obtain a public relations victory.”

:mad: to that. It's about time someone spoke up to try and break the impasse.

Hempy
26th May 2014, 10:44
"but we’re not very happy that they used the pope as a political vehicle or tool to obtain a public relations victory.”

:mad: And of course the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is all about political vehicles and public relations.....:rolleyes:

cattletruck
26th May 2014, 11:39
I recently saw a cooking show about an English chef looking to get new ideas from the restaurants in the old city of Israel in all quarters. Their were Jews, Arabs, Palestinians, Christians, etc, etc eating at these restaurants and thoroughly enjoying themselves and all getting along with each other.

I couldn't help but think that just outside this little enclave the joke is on all of us.

Fareastdriver
26th May 2014, 15:16
All people get along well together. It's politics and religion that separate them.

dazdaz1
26th May 2014, 15:24
I feel a song coming on, lets all join hands and kiss.....

Coca Cola Commercial - I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing (In Perfect Harmony) - 1971 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ib-Qiyklq-Q)

airship
26th May 2014, 17:53
Both the current Pope Francis and airship think it's high-time that a solution was found. Rapidly. Pope Francis believes that this is possible with a lot of prayer (perhaps addressed at his own, if not both protagonists, if also other Gods)...?! Whilst airship believes that no truly viable solutions are available until that is, he gets command of his own squadron of "X-winged star-fighters" (probably require a support-vessel in the shape of a battle-cruiser also). And he'd still have to wait for the go-ahead from the UN Security Council even if he had the ability to impose peace...?! :O

RatherBeFlying
26th May 2014, 19:19
I was hoping that the Arab Spring would get the ME on the way to democracies that worked for the welfare of all their folks rather than just the well connected.

It's not turning out very well and I have to say that Assad makes Israel's oppression of the Palestinians look positively benign by comparison. But remember that countries that claim the mantle of "Western Democracy" are held to much higher standards than dictatorships. Apartheid regimes don't cut it.

Bottom line is that it's a very nasty neighborhood and getting nastier.

There's some really nice houses going up for auction in once fancy Detroit neighborhoods with somewhat better behaved locals;)

parabellum
26th May 2014, 23:11
:mad:to that. It's about time someone spoke up to try and break the impasse.


It might have helped the overall situation if the current Palestinian regime hadn't recently thrown their lot in with Hamas, a proscribed terrorist organisation.

acbus1
27th May 2014, 08:06
...used the pope as a political vehicle or tool to obtain a public relations victory
Any observer with at least average intelligence has already recognised this for what it was, instantly decided to ignore it and moved on.

Sallyann1234
27th May 2014, 08:33
acbus
You just confirmed Lone_Ranger's point.

acbus1
27th May 2014, 08:47
acbus
You just confirmed Lone_Ranger's point.
You just conformed mine.

Sallyann1234
27th May 2014, 10:00
Precisely. No solution to the problem.

Keef
27th May 2014, 10:15
The Philistines/Palestinians and the Israelites/Israelis haven't been the best of friends since about 1200 BC. It takes time to resolve a disagreement like that.

Credit to those who are working on it. While I don't belong to His Branch, I have immense respect for this Pope. He's trying hard.

parabellum
27th May 2014, 12:41
That's definately a big obstacle, but as long as people like you only ever see just one side, nothing will change


Lived and worked in the ME for a number years, studied the subject a lot too Lone_Ranger, and you?

RatherBeFlying
27th May 2014, 14:42
The Philistines/Palestinians and the Israelites/Israelis haven't been the best of friends since about 1200 BC.Interestingly the Palestinians have closer genetic links with the exiled Egyptian slaves than the more recent arrivals.

As in Egypt where many of the Coptic Christian population converted to Islam and began speaking Arabic, the analogous process happened in Palestine during the spread of Islam.

Some centuries earlier, many Europeans began speaking Latin which evolved into Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan, French, Provencale, Romansch, Italian, Romanian. We can call all these folks Latins just as much as we can call Egyptians, Palestinians, Syrians, Iraqis, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians and Moroccans Arabs. Mind you, not too many centuries before they were Latins before they became Arabs.

The Spanish went from Latins to Arabs and back to Latins.

Had Columbus began his voyage of discovery while Spain was under Arab rule, we might be looking at Arab America instead of Latin America.

airship
27th May 2014, 16:59
Keef wrote: Credit to those who are working on it. While I don't belong to His Branch, I have immense respect for this Pope. He's trying hard.

Please excuse me for any misunderstanding or confusion Keef, but would not everyone be better-off if at least "your sort" (the multitude of religious factions involved) got their acts together and said things with a "single voice"? Or are "not belonging to his branch" in your own case, a sufficient excuse (at least before your own God / religion / branch etc.) for inaction and maintaining the staus-quo? Before even the governments, politicians and others have their sway?

For some strange reason, I would not like to be Keef when eventually he climbs the stairs unto Heaven and finally meets His maker. Me?! I'm gonna be reincarnated as a pudicat. Dunnunda. So that 500N will have an opportunity to put short my new existence with multiple shots from his semi-automatic rifle. Talk about HELL?!

PS. There's far too much simple hatred being expressed these days here on JB in other threads. Mostly from those who in spite of life's general difficulties still manage to live a very comfortable existence themselves, myself included (in comparison to many others who do suffer). Take a look at the other threads to see what I mean. Even here, folks have already mentionned genes. I do not believe in any God/s who merely chooses one people over another. And I care little for those more or less ignorant individuals who even ca. 2014 believe that they are somehow "more worthy or valuable" than other human-beings. I'd easily exchange 100,000 of them to save a single endangered tiger or other creature...! :mad:

Ancient Observer
27th May 2014, 17:03
Shame my Dad isn't alive.

After serving the full war in 39-45, the powers that be put him in to Palestine.

His only comment was that he must have done quite well as both the folk aspiring to be Israelis, and the folk aspiring to be Palestinians, shot at him. Both missed.

TomJoad
27th May 2014, 21:38
Keef wrote:

Please excuse me for any misunderstanding or confusion Keef, but would not everyone be better-off if at least "your sort" (the multitude of religious factions involved) got their acts together and said things with a "single voice"?

Well yes of course it would. But how much more "better off" would everyone be if we held our secular philosophies and politicians to the same. Peace on Earth indeed.

Tom

Sallyann1234
27th May 2014, 22:00
*TomJoad*
Heartily agreed. In so many of these conflicts religion is the excuse for a fight, not the reason.

meadowrun
27th May 2014, 22:19
Human beings have been gifted with great intelligence (by whatever causation you wish) but as a whole we choose not to utilize it, hence the never ending hatreds and warfare that plague us throughout history. We have great minds but act like knuckle-draggers. The world is mob mentality.

TomJoad
27th May 2014, 23:23
Sallyann, meadowrun

It is tragically sad that given the wonderful gift of our species' intellect we also have such a propensity for destruction and evil deeds towards our fellows. Carl Sagan I think described the human mind as the consciousness of the universe, contrasting starkly with the "inertness" of the rest of creation. Yet it is beyond incredible that, of all life, we alone with the gift of our intellect are able to peel back the veil, unravel and understand the workings of the universe itself. And yet we still sucombe to such base actions as hatred and destruction. Christian philosophy would call this tendency our fallen nature - the nature which separates us from the divine. Now I know that notion is not for everybody but I can't help but agree that there is indeed something broken in our makeup. And I agree Sallyann, if I have understood you correctly, religion is not the cause just a convenient excuse. Remove religion, and our fallen nature fills the void with another convenient philosophy. I feel I'm rambling and I apologise if this was a bit preachy - not my intention. One can only hope that the Pope's recent visit brings that troubled region a step closer to understanding how they may achieve peace - it surely can't have acted against that goal.

Tom

Keef
28th May 2014, 08:11
Having spent a fair amount of my time with folks from a variety of faiths, in serious discussions, I have to say I found all of them courteous and respectful of each other.

Most of the aggression and hostility I've come across in such discussions has been from those without a faith.

While there are extremists and nutcases in all walks of life, I think it is naive to assume that faith communities have more of them than other communities. I would suspect that the opposite is more likely to be true.

I doubt there are valid statistics to prove or disprove this, but it's certainly my experience.

acbus1
28th May 2014, 09:10
Having spent a fair amount of my time with folks from a variety of faiths, in serious discussions, I have to say I found all of them courteous and respectful of each other.
The sort of people who engage in serious discussions are likely to behave as you describe.

Its the vast majority who are incapable of serious discussion you should be spending time with. Your outlook might change a tad.

charliegolf
28th May 2014, 10:28
Heartily agreed. In so many of these conflicts religion is the excuse for a fight, not the reason.

Northern Ireland, to name one closer to home.

CG

Keef
28th May 2014, 12:53
The sort of people who engage in serious discussions are likely to behave as you describe.

Its the vast majority who are incapable of serious discussion you should be spending time with. Your outlook might change a tad.

I spend my time with the people who live around me, and with the people I meet on my travels. Those are the ones I should be spending time with. Some of those are community leaders in their various environments, whose concern is the well-being of their communities and those around. That was the point I was trying (and apparently failing) to make. Aggressive hostility to other faiths (or none) is not their way.

I've not had much experience of (or success in) discussions with people who are incapable of serious discussion. Sadly, there will always be the minority at the extreme of any group, whether it's Al Qaeda and Boko Haram, or the opposite end of the spectrum.

I prefer to keep a sense of perspective and to keep talking, rather than encourage throwing things or killing people.

TomJoad
28th May 2014, 18:40
Northern Ireland, to name one closer to home.

CG


Exactly. If religion played any part there it was only in that it was exploited by so called leaders as a means of motivation. Then again no different from the likes of the crusades or what we are seeing today with those who exploit Islam to their end.

Tom

TomJoad
28th May 2014, 18:59
I spend my time with the people who live around me, and with the people I meet on my travels. Those are the ones I should be spending time with. Some of those are community leaders in their various environments, whose concern is the well-being of their communities and those around. That was the point I was trying (and apparently failing) to make. Aggressive hostility to other faiths (or none) is not their way.

I've not had much experience of (or success in) discussions with people who are incapable of serious discussion. Sadly, there will always be the minority at the extreme of any group, whether it's Al Qaeda and Boko Haram, or the opposite end of the spectrum.

I prefer to keep a sense of perspective and to keep talking, rather than encourage throwing things or killing people.


Keef, I agree wholeheartedly with your post here and it sums up my experience also. I have had great pleasure in discussing and finding common ground with people of genuine faith (from various traditions) and those with none. In all I have found that those with a true and honest connection with their particular faith are equally condemning of violence and conflict. They generally hold a deeply held respect and empathy for each other's beliefs. Perhaps in balance to our "fallen nature" we also have capacity to disagree yet respect and see what we have in common.