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KAG
25th May 2014, 21:53
In France Marine Le Pen won the European elections.
France doesn't approve EU anymore.

What is going to change?

500N
25th May 2014, 21:57
Suggest a better title that represents what the thread is about !

I just read the Daily Mail, it seems the right wing
is rising to then top :ok:

KAG
25th May 2014, 22:07
I admit the title is quite simple. But Marine (Marianne) is a woman name, and women should be political leaders more often, in France the symbol of the revolution and the republic is a woman.

Many people predicted Euro would economically die, but it seems it will be politically stopped right? That's what those last elections in France means if I am not mistaken?

SpringHeeledJack
25th May 2014, 22:39
Mr KAG, I initially thought that the thread concerned matter nautical :) That's quite a large jump in support for the FN in France. Perhaps you'd better stay in China, where they have the expression 'may you live in interesting times' which it appears we will. Nice to see you back posting btw.


SHJ

tony draper
25th May 2014, 22:50
Indeed arses are being kicked tonight,and not before time.:E

500N
25th May 2014, 22:52
So, what is this going to do to the EU ?

Any comments ?



Is it going to get to the stage like the UN where countries sign agreements etc
but then just totally ignore them which seems to be happening more and more.

cavortingcheetah
25th May 2014, 22:56
Vive la France!

Capetonian
25th May 2014, 23:04
The rise of anti-EU sentiment and a move away from federalism throughout Europe is most encouraging.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
25th May 2014, 23:04
where countries sign agreements etc
but then just totally ignore them

I think you've just defined France

KAG
25th May 2014, 23:05
Spring: I am back in France. It has been a few months already. I won't go back in China, even with nice expats salaries. Not worth it. Even my Chinese precious and very loved wife thinks the same.

EU will have to change. It will have to be more cooperation like before, and much less integration. I feel French citizen are starting to lose confidence towards the European and French leaders and elite.

KAG
25th May 2014, 23:10
500N: what will it do to EU? It will slow it down dramatically. Not even mention Ukip, there is already a thread concerning this party.

500N
25th May 2014, 23:21
Sounds like a good outcome then !

Fox3WheresMyBanana
25th May 2014, 23:42
Bring back the original EFTA - all thoroughly decent people!

pigboat
26th May 2014, 01:31
I don't have a dog in this fight, but Vive la France!

Britain's Nigel Farage Epitomizes Europe's Rising Anti-EU Spirit. (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/05/24/robert-fulford-britians-nigel-farage-epitomizes-europes-rising-anti-eu-spirit/)

In the most obvious way, the trouble with the EU is that it’s over-managed, over-staffed and out of touch with its vast constituency. Its regulators are considered officious even by the standards of regulators. They seem not to understand that before introducing society-changing regulations (on workers’ rights, immigration, the environment, animal welfare) they should seek the approval of the citizens.

And they have not been parsimonious with public money: The EU’s heavy thinkers work in Brussels, the support staff in Luxembourg. A third venue, the European Parliament in Strasbourg, has a UN-size auditorium that holds plenary sessions four days a month (with 751 members) and remains empty 317 days a year.

The EU has developed into the most unusual sort of club. Many on the outside, such as Turkey, want to get in, because it looks like the gateway to an advanced economy. Increasingly, however, many of those who are in yearn to be out.


If I Lived In Europe I'd Be A Euroskeptic. (http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/05/22/george-jonas-if-i-lived-in-europe-id-be-a-euroskeptic/)

Realizing the dream of First World War pacifist intellectuals was chiefly the work of the French statesmen Jean Monnet and Robert Schuman, and a Belgian, Paul-Henri Spaak. The EU was established on Feb. 7, 1992. On that day, had they been still alive, Monnet and Schuman would have been 104 and 106 respectively, and even young Spaak would have been 93. The European Union may have been the future, but it was the future as envisaged in the distant past: “Yesterday’s future,” as British prime minister Margaret Thatcher called it in The Hague as the European Union came into being.

rh200
26th May 2014, 01:37
As much as I love to bash the EU, primarily due it being run by leftist Utopian morons, in the long term it should be regarded as a good thing.

Over time we in the world need to slowly come together as our values tend towards some common point, whether that takes 100 years, or a thousand years. Its every one doing their own thing and the benifit of themselves that ends up in major wars.

So hopefully it will just put a rocket up the @rses of the EU bureaucrats and ground some of the wacko's that has been pulling the strings.

500N
26th May 2014, 01:59
I just read the UK newspapers. Wow, that is a real kick in the teeth for the EU and the left.

They did say the right was rising, I didn't think it would be so fast and so far.

Germany is interesting - a Neo Nazi ? Might make a few people a bit nervous.

con-pilot
26th May 2014, 02:02
Vive la France!

I as well have no dog in this fight, but I agree. Vive la France! :ok:

KAG
26th May 2014, 02:48
Well, I am not going to escape it: I was wrong. I assumed French citizens wanted EU, that's not the case today.
I am very attached to democracy, people have spoken in UK, France, spoken very clearly. This is the end of EU like we know it.

KAG
26th May 2014, 03:02
We need the dissolution of the French parliament, but I am not sure Hollande has the balls to do it. This I however the only democratic act to do right now.

Matari
26th May 2014, 03:05
KAG,

There seems to be a backlash in the Western world to the kind of interfering, pretentious elite that make up so much of our political class -- on either side of the Atlantic.

In the US the backlash came in the form of the Occupy Wallstreet movement on one end of the political spectrum, and the Tea Party on the other, more hygienic end of the spectrum.

One can only imagine what these threads would look like if some of the campaign slogans from Vlaams Belang, the FN, the PVV or Liga Nord were picked up by an American political party. We'd have no end of preaching and lessons about the KKK from our European betters. Funny to see Europe go this way...turns out it is still a pretty tribal place after all.

KAG
26th May 2014, 03:22
Yes quite agree Matari.
One point however, in France people have a bad opinion of the FN, but not a so bad one about Marine. A phenomenon hard to explain, I know, because Marine is actually the official leader of the FN... People vote more for Marine than the FN.

(FN means National Front party)

parabellum
26th May 2014, 03:42
The EU should revert to what it was originally and was intended to be before it grew so many tentacles, it should go back to being just The Common Market, nothing more, each country should be allowed to get on with its own laws on all matters not immediately associated with marketing.

500N
26th May 2014, 03:45
Para
Totally agree.

If they don't, people and Gov'ts will just start ignoring them and when
the EU threatens whoever, then watch the EU get short shifted.

Use the UN watchdogs (HR being one) at the moment in Aus, no "ear of the Gov't",
so they try to use the media and get deadly silence in return so they ramp it up and
you get an article or commentary saying "who cares".

KAG
26th May 2014, 03:50
Yes, that would be smart. Not listening to the citizens who officially said what they wanted could end up very badly.

500N
26th May 2014, 03:57
Well KAG, as I have said before, the UN is a perfect example of
what happens when they start lecturing to countries, countries
just switch off from listening.

And as much as I see the EU "threatens" the UK with XYZ, if it
over plays it's hand, at the end of the day if the UK really gets
it's nose out of joint they will tell the EU to take a flying leap.

And then the EU will have ZERO say.

So they had better think twice before becoming dictatorial.

mikedreamer787
26th May 2014, 04:06
Originally posted by KAG:

I was wrong.


Well, I lived long enough to finally see that! :}

500N
26th May 2014, 04:32
Just be glad KAG is back :ok:

MG23
26th May 2014, 04:42
Over time we in the world need to slowly come together as our values tend towards some common point, whether that takes 100 years, or a thousand years. Its every one doing their own thing and the benifit of themselves that ends up in major wars.

So do you plan to murder everyone who disagrees with your values, or just stick electrodes in their brains to control them?

500N
26th May 2014, 04:50
Just water board them :ok:

rh200
26th May 2014, 04:51
So do you plan to murder everyone who disagrees with your values, or just stick electrodes in their brains to control them?

Not all.

The simple fact its inevitable one way or another, you can try by force, or you can try to let it happen naturally. As some people has said about the UN and EU, criticisms I share, they try and push their agenda. This is usually by wacko's from the left.

The countries take care of their own morality and let it tend towards a common area by itself with minimum intervention. There always has to be a limit to non intervention, but that point should be clearly defined.

500N
26th May 2014, 05:28
I like this quote

"A jubilant Ms Le Pen, whose party beat President Francois Hollande's ruling Socialists into third place, told supporters: "The people have spoken loud and clear... they no longer want to be led by those outside our borders, by EU commissioners and technocrats who are unelected. "They want to be protected from globalisation and take back the reins of their destiny."

Read more: French far right in "earthquake" win as Europe votes (http://www.smh.com.au/world/french-far-right-in-earthquake-win-as-europe-votes-20140526-zrnvl.html#ixzz32nRsaAsd)"

wiggy
26th May 2014, 05:41
KAG

People vote more for Marine than the FN.


I'm sure you're right, the FN spin doctors seem to have kept Papa ;) off TV for a while - then suddenly, once the provisional results came in last night.......:sad:

(FWIW our commune went FN..)

Capetonian
26th May 2014, 06:36
Bienvenu dans le monde de la réalité, KAG.

It seems that even the French electorate are smarter than their gutless brainless immoral lefty communist President.

sitigeltfel
26th May 2014, 07:28
KAG

I'm sure you're right, the FN spin doctors seem to have kept Papa ;) off TV for a while - then suddenly, once the provisional results came in last night.......:sad:

(FWIW our commune went FN..)

He has picked up the ticket for our region with the results map (http://www.laprovence.com/elections-europeennes) showing a sea of FN dark blue and only a few forlorn splodges of socialist pink.

The other daughter, Marion, was elected as a deputy in the recent elections and her apartment in Carpentras was burgled shortly afterwards. The suspects were described as being of "North African" appearance! :rolleyes:

500N
26th May 2014, 07:33
"The other daughter, Marion, was elected as a deputy in the recent elections and her apartment in Carpentras was burgled shortly afterwards. The suspects were described as being of "North African" appearance! :rolleyes:"


That was obviously going to happen. You should always leave a friendly welcome "mat" for these type of people.

Amazing how the simplest of things can cause the most severe pain.

SOPS
26th May 2014, 08:38
Things might start to get a little bit nasty.

vee-tail-1
26th May 2014, 10:03
Meanwhile in European countries Muslims continue with Infiltration, demographics, and violence.
And throughout the planet overpopulation, pollution of resources, and global warming continue.
We need to stop fighting in the lifeboat and bail out before we all sink and die.
Welcome back KAG :)

rh200
26th May 2014, 10:35
Oh the Irony

Would you like to expand on that Lone, I'm fairly sure I know what your going to say, but it would be good to see it. I'm fairly sure it will be the usual narrow minded response with no real understanding of the situation.

Effluent Man
26th May 2014, 12:14
More importantly,is she a lardarse?

Toadstool
26th May 2014, 12:26
Would you like to expand on that Lone, I'm fairly sure I know what your going to say, but it would be good to see it. I'm fairly sure it will be the usual narrow minded response with no real understanding of the situation.

The double irony:D:D

Keep going RH, this is fun watching you tie yourself in knots. :ok:

rh200
26th May 2014, 12:56
Keep going RH, this is fun watching you tie yourself in knots.

Hardly, you have absolutely no idea where I am going with this, so why don't you elaborate and enlighten me as well, its all good coming back with one liners, but try putting your money where your mouth is.

Toadstool
26th May 2014, 15:47
Hardly, you have absolutely no idea where I am going with this

It appears you don't either, unless you are trying to be really clever and post cryptic messages.

but try putting your money where your mouth is.

I couldn't put it better myself. Go on, elucidate, if you can.

KAG
26th May 2014, 18:07
Just listenned to the Francois Hollande speech 2 minutes ago, and he said he will change nothing...

airship
26th May 2014, 18:12
KAG, all the extremist parties including the UKIP and French FN who've found themselves elected as our representatives in the European Parliament today should beware:

1) They're trying to destroy the EU from within (having been allowed to under the democratic processes available).

2) The EU generally and all member nations individually will subsidise the costs of these extremist parties. They will feed at the EU "trough" for the maximum benefit, whilst somehow always denigrating the EU's own existence...?!

3) In many ways, I can understand the concerns of UK, French and other EU citizens about "foreigners / immigrants" being given benefits before even their own citizens obtain any help in the general "queue".

4) But now that all these extremist parties have been newly-elected as MEPs, they will themselves and very actively be unjustifiably and immorally "using the EU", just as all the illegal immigrants etc. ever did before them...?!

VIVE L'EU?! And **** the rest... :ok:

500N
26th May 2014, 18:14
"1) They're trying to destroy the EU from within (having been allowed to under the democratic processes available)."

Maybe not such a bad thing. Like the UN, it need pulling down a peg - or 10
until it takes orders FROM Governments and not dictate TO them !

airship
26th May 2014, 18:51
500N. Yer, well, when you Ozzies decide to eventually "declare a republic" instead of being beholden' to HM Queen Elizabeth II; stop shootin' stray pudicats willy nilly etc.; stop bringing up "strange, foreign and invasive species" including pudicats, without bringing up or mentionning that Ozzies (human-beings) themselves are pretty much a "strange, foreign and invasive species" etc., I don't believe we've much to discuss. So far as an Ozzie commenting on European elections etc. are concerned: Stay in your "relatively curry-free and Indian-free" environment. Isn't that what you basically wrote in another recent thread? Why aren't you happy / secure enough stirring the embers with the aboriginals in your own continent, insisting on "stirring up " the situation here? :confused:

500N
26th May 2014, 19:06
"Stay in your "relatively curry-free and Indian-free" environment. Isn't that what you basically wrote in another recent thread?"

I knew I'd get a bite out of someone sometime :O

BTW, British by birth and don't like seeing the UK dictated to by a bunch if lefty, never had a real job wankers who spend all the time trying to restrict everyone from getting on !

The fight against the left is global, not local, the more that can be done to tear down the towers they build all over the world, the better !
At least Australia is now under control, UN being ignored, lefty towers being pulled back into line :ok:


"insisting on "stirring up " the situation here? :confused:"

Well, it's quite OK for Europeans to comment on US Gun laws and the 2nd but not OK for others to comment on the EU, Europe, the UK ?

airship
26th May 2014, 19:24
500N, you'll have to firstly ask your fellow "tag-mates" if they're agreeable and will support you. Secondly, I'm not sure that my NZ friend John would go along with that anyways. I can understand certain US individuals who blindingly support their own government "whatever" happens. One day, so will I do also, either because I've lost most reason, or suffering increasingly from Alzheimer's. But younger generations should not be similarly handi-capped and forced to live under "old rules"...?! :ok:

500N
26th May 2014, 19:27
I don't have any "tag mates". Happy to fight my own battles.

Just because I agree with what someone else posted does not make them a tag mate.


Hey, airship, we might have differing views but at least you discuss / debate :ok:

All good :ok:

KAG
26th May 2014, 19:29
Thanks for the welcome back.

I believe Europe can take more cooperation between sovereign countries instead of full integration like right now. If this is what people want... Why not.

airship
26th May 2014, 19:45
Sure KAG, we should revert back to the days when for example, the UK had a dispute over fishing rights with Iceland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_Wars). Ca. 2014 and post EU elections, this should be the "natural way". Under UKIP, the UK would have despatched their remaining warships to the area (no aircraft-carriers though because in 2014, the UK doesn't have any at her disposal - but may be allowed to call-upon the French Charles de Gaulle - unsure how that defense-agreement works...?!) to fight the enemy (Icelandic fishing vessels).

You want to go back to that?! Who does, let me guess?! All those who simply wish to see general mayhem (whilst preserving their own abodes from this mayhem). And not sacrificing any of their offspring...?! :D

er340790
26th May 2014, 20:11
Send in a Gun-Boat..... that'll sort things out.

Capetonian
26th May 2014, 20:44
Even Mrs. CPT's champagne BMW driving commie leftie friends in the Soviet Republic of France have had the smug smirks wiped off their faces. They were so smug and happy when they voted Sarkoczy out and got Hollande. They're not so happy now (but guess who is!)

rh200
26th May 2014, 23:51
It appears you don't either, unless you are trying to be really clever and post cryptic messages.

Yawn, obviously only good at one liners.

KAG, all the extremist parties including the UKIP and French FN who've found themselves elected as our representatives in the European Parliament today should beware:

Yes, and the left only has themselves to blame for that. Any population can be modeled along a Gaussian distribution, we have unfortunately let to many on the far left side have their way. The outliers on both sides of that distribution tend to ignore the central mass, and after a time it will swing the other way.

Society's are not rocket science, the naivety of the huggy fluffies thinking they could just go on a jihad to purify the world indefinitely is beyond understanding.

parabellum
27th May 2014, 00:24
One positive that may come out of the recent EU elections is that the governments of France and UK respectively will now have to listen to the electorates wishes and change their focus to those wishes. Not that the MPs of either government actually want to follow the will of the people but if they don't then come the next general election half of them will find themselves kicked out of the trough and that would really frighten them!

500N
27th May 2014, 00:29
parabellum

Shades of Labor in Aus ?

Didn't listen to the people (especially on Asylum Seekers), got kicked out, and a right wing Gov't installed ????

Rwy in Sight
27th May 2014, 07:32
parabellum,

I am not sure if it is possible for the governments to listen to the electorate and act upon their wishes; the funds are not there.

Rwy in Sight

The SSK
27th May 2014, 09:37
If anyone is interested in serious analysis of the election results, see here:

http://cdn.fleishman-hillard.eu/wordpress/files/2014/05/The-8th-EP_Results-and-analysis_27052014.pdf

Lon More
27th May 2014, 10:59
never had a real job wankers

Like Steptoe Farage, scrap metal merchant?

Seems the sole UKIP MEP for Scotland has been telling Porkies. He's not a Scottish businessman, having a trail of failed enterprises in England, and only stayed in Scotland, in rented accomodation. during the election
Coburn London based. (http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/ukips-coburn-london-based-despite-scots-seat-victory.24329841) Starting out as he intends to carry on no doubt

sitigeltfel
27th May 2014, 11:57
Seems the sole UKIP MEP for Scotland has been telling Porkies.

Learning to be a genuine politician then!

500N
27th May 2014, 12:03
Lon

You had to find the exception !

Lon More
27th May 2014, 12:20
You had to find the exception !

Finding the exception on the ship of fools that is ukip is very difficult but I try.

500N
27th May 2014, 12:25
Ship of fools is a good name for the EU !.

Lon More
27th May 2014, 12:29
The EU will have a large group of ghosts shortly. Newly elected but probably never showing up unless there's an opportunity to get their faces in the news. I wonder if they'll refuse their salaries, or just feed in the trough they claim to despise?

Fareastdriver
27th May 2014, 13:46
Oooooh, Bitter.

MagnusP
27th May 2014, 13:50
They apparently plan to try to block EU diktats overriding national sovereignty. This can only be a good thing.

CargoMatatu
27th May 2014, 13:56
For once in my life I find myself 100% absolutely in agreement with Lon More ! :eek:

wings folded
27th May 2014, 17:55
sitigeltfel


The other daughter, Marion, was elected as a deputy in the recent elections


Bit confused?

Marion is the grand daughter of J.-M. Le Pen, not another daughter

AtomKraft
27th May 2014, 18:18
It's not the rise of ukip that's important...
It's what they reflect, that is.

In other words, ukip are the beneficiaries of the rot that has set in, country wide, concerning politics.

THAT, is the big issue.

Right now, ukip are benefitting, which is a spin off.

The democratic deficit, the lack of accountability, the detachment of politics from those they claim to represent. The growth of policies popular with politicians, but unpopular with voters- these are the real problems. These things are important.

Politicians are going to have to remember who they are and what they are there to do.

We have elected them to do admin work that's too boring for us to be bothered with.
And to put into effect policies that reflect the desires of the majority of US.

Once they start doing stuff that they like, even though they know WE don't approve, the whole system will rot into mush and rightly so.

Ukip is a protest vote, pure and simple. A curse on both your houses.

The reason for the protest, like most widely supported protests, is 100% correct.

500N
27th May 2014, 18:22
Atom

But if the mainstream don't listen, that "safe bet" protest vote (being local council) will turn into another protest vote in the main game.

AtomKraft
27th May 2014, 18:30
500

Sure.
But right now, a vote for UKip is the best way to punish the mainstream parties.
It's the only language they understand.
Even non- voting, which is always tempting, doesn't have the same effect.

I guess the official Monster Raving Loony party was similar. You voted for them just to put two fingers up to the usual suspects.

I'm not a UKip voter or supporter. But if I was English, I would be.

I'd like to punch the Tories and Labour until my hands bleed.

Cnuts, the lot of them.

pigboat
28th May 2014, 02:16
Interesting article.
A Stick in the Eye for the Soft Invasion. (http://takimag.com/article/a_stick_in_the_eye_for_the_soft_invasion_christopher_hart#ax zz32y3ws8yA)

500N
28th May 2014, 02:36
That article lays it out in Black and White as to why UK IP won
and what English people think and want.

reynoldsno1
28th May 2014, 03:53
all the extremist parties
The political spectrum has narrowed so much in the past 60 years, as all the 'mainstream' political parties scrambled to occupy the "middle ground", that one only has to driftt a smidgeon to the left or right to be labelled "extremist". Greece seems to have gone on a slightly different tack to the UK, France, Denmark etc ... It certainly makes things more interesting ....

sitigeltfel
28th May 2014, 09:31
The FN trounce Hollande at the Euros and a few days later the police go in to break up immigrant camps near Calais.

BBC News - French police expelling migrants from Calais camps (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27599827)

Moi, cynique? :hmm:

HyFlyer
28th May 2014, 10:24
Pigboat

In the most obvious way, the trouble with the EU is that it’s over-managed, over-staffed and out of touch with its vast constituency. Its regulators are considered officious even by the standards of regulators. They seem not to understand that before introducing society-changing regulations (on workers’ rights, immigration, the environment, animal welfare) they should seek the approval of the citizens.

And they have not been parsimonious with public money: The EU’s heavy thinkers work in Brussels, the support staff in Luxembourg. A third venue, the European Parliament in Strasbourg, has a UN-size auditorium that holds plenary sessions four days a month (with 751 members) and remains empty 317 days a year.

The EU has developed into the most unusual sort of club. Many on the outside, such as Turkey, want to get in, because it looks like the gateway to an advanced economy. Increasingly, however, many of those who are in yearn to be out.

This is EXACTLY the issue.

Too many bureaucrats sucking at the teat...and totally disconnected with the rest of the planet. It isn't just the EU, but French administrative system as well. Corruption is a major factor here......a sort of soft corruption of trading influence...but still corrupt. It is endemic.