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tony draper
25th May 2014, 14:30
Who would have thought it,when I was a lad taking a early interest in Astronomy there were still books saying Venus was covered in primeval forest probably with dinosaur like critters wandering about em.
Now we can look at pickies like this.:)
https://www.360cities.net/image/mars-panorama-curiosity-selfie-night#32.70,7.00,70.0

Mr Optimistic
25th May 2014, 15:23
Really?! How old are you and how did you afford the parchment ?

tony draper
25th May 2014, 15:35
Yes really,still have a World Atlas printed in the early fifties that has a section on the solar system that describes the surface of Venus in exactly that manner.
:)

Mr Optimistic
25th May 2014, 15:58
Well I was around in the 50's but thought we were more advanced than that. Sure it wasn't a religious tract? Spectroscopic stuff showed what an appalling sh+thole Venus is.

SpringHeeledJack
25th May 2014, 16:03
Crazy…..They images could have been taken in numerous mountain/desert locations all over Earth and there they are on Mars, wow….

I wonder how they keep the lenses and sensors clean from the undoubted dust that exists in such environments ?



SHJ

Lon More
25th May 2014, 16:04
Kids here these days; coming here and arguing with their betters and elders :rolleyes:

tony draper
25th May 2014, 16:19
Until the later days of space probes you could have claimed Venus was covered in Burger Stands and Tesco Stores nobody could have argued with you.
:)

Mr Optimistic
25th May 2014, 16:19
...though I could be wrong
Life on Venus? Russian scientist claims to have seen 'scorpion' in probe photographs | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2090556/Life-Venus-Russian-scientist-claims-seen-scorpion-probe-photographs.html)

tony draper
25th May 2014, 16:30
You can read here about some of the weird theories on Venus that still held sway in the fifties chaps,I am not uneducated on matters astronomical it was my thing for twenty odd years,although one admits to being out of the loop for a while. :)
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/Venus.htm

Mr Optimistic
25th May 2014, 16:38
In retrospect that is rather sad, showing such a desire not to be alone.

Mostly Harmless
25th May 2014, 16:51
Look at that night sky on Mars! Stunning.

Blacksheep
25th May 2014, 17:02
Back in 1953 I had a pictorial encyclopaedia that had highly speculative pictures of our neighbouring planets, as described by tony.

teeteringhead
25th May 2014, 17:24
back in 1953 I had a pictorial encyclopaedia that had highly speculative pictures of our neighbouring planets, as described by tony. Think I had the same one! I recall that the picture representing "Earth" was of a green and pleasant land, rolling hills, oak trees and hedgerows.

Only in the 50s could England still represent the World!!

Flash2001
25th May 2014, 17:29
I guess I've lived through a complete planet. In one of my high school libraries was a book that said that there were 8 planets unless one wishes to include the newly discovered Pluto. Now it's gone again!

After an excellent landing etc...

tony draper
25th May 2014, 18:10
Here is a snippet astronomical for you,Pluto was not named thus by a international panel of venerable astronomers, but by a English Schoolgirl.
:)

Saintsman
25th May 2014, 18:16
That sky makes you realise how much light pollution we suffer from.

I've never seen that many stars before.

Matari
25th May 2014, 18:57
SpringHeeledJack:

I wonder how they keep the lenses and sensors clean from the undoubted dust that exists in such environments ?

Don't worry, some bright spark on the internet has that all figured out:
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd332/bulamatari/NASA-mars-rover-curiosityIMAGE03_zpsc27829dc.png
Who Is Cleaning The NASA Mars Rover Curiosity ? - UFO Blogger : Exclusive UFO 2014, Flying Saucers and UFOs Sightings Videos (http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2012/09/who-is-cleaning-nasa-mars-rover.html)

Windy Militant
25th May 2014, 21:50
Didn't George Adamski claim to have been taken aboard a Venusian Flying Saucer in the 1950s? Then there's The Aetherius Society who spend hours chanting on hill tops to channel energy from the Venusian Cosmic master!
They're all wrong as any Fule know that Venus is ruled by the Mighty Mekon! I seen it in the Eagle so it must be true, all them probe thingies must have landed in the flame belts. ;)

Mars is plain tonight I saw it as I was locking up the backdoor, even with the light pollution in town. I wonder what those green streamers are......:uhoh:

tony draper
25th May 2014, 21:56
The Mekon was my fav character int Eagle,I was a strange child.:uhoh:

Windy Militant
25th May 2014, 22:02
The Mekon was my fav character int Eagle,I was a strange child.

That Explains a lot of things. :hmm:

SpringHeeledJack
25th May 2014, 22:03
Anyone remember 'Captain Space Kingley' and his adventures with Martians and Venutians ?


SHJ

tony draper
25th May 2014, 22:18
Cant say I do, but I am certain nobody with a name like "Space" would have ever been allowed in my gang.

TomJoad
25th May 2014, 22:18
That sky makes you realise how much light pollution we suffer from.

I've never seen that many stars before.

The sky is truly stunning but it is not the view from Mars - it is an overlay of the Milky way taken from Earth.

Tom

tony draper
25th May 2014, 22:22
One suspected as much,we probably have better skies here for looking upward, full of dust is yer Martian sky.
:)

SpringHeeledJack
25th May 2014, 22:36
Cant say I do, but I am certain nobody with a name like "Space" would have ever been allowed in my gang.

Here he be mr D

kingleys.jpg Photo by eldarsuperstar | Photobucket (http://s108.photobucket.com/user/eldarsuperstar/media/retrofuture/kingleys.jpg.html)


Why would NASA use the wrong night sky in their image ? Surely this would just make their credibility seem unreliable.


SHJ

tony draper
25th May 2014, 22:44
I remember the early photos sent back from the Viking? Mars lander,had to be altered because they weren't red enough,I mean what probably comes back from Mars is just a stream of zeros and ones,so they are all manipulated to a certain extent.
:)
Looks like the kind of chap one would be happy to have at one back when facing a wounded buffalo Mr Jack.:rolleyes:

TomJoad
25th May 2014, 22:59
There are no star trails in the picture - you need an equatorial mount (guided) to remove the apparent rotation of the stars, Curiosity is not equipped with one - astrophotography was not its mission. And yes, there is a hell of a lot of dust in the Martian atmosphere. But that said, it is one hell of a picture and I agree Tony, compared to what we knew in the 1950s of our solar system and beyond, our achievements today are truly incredible. We now have the ability to analyse the atmosphere of Exoplanets for signature compounds which are believed to be precursors for life. Light from the parent star, having passed through the Exo planet's atmosphere, is collected and analysed by spectroscopy. If there is life out there it is hard to see that we will not one day identify it. Unless it is found in our solar system though, hard to see that we will ever have direct proof - distances are just too big. We need the improbability drive from Hitchhikers Guide.:ok:

mikedreamer787
26th May 2014, 04:41
there were still books saying Venus was
covered in primeval forest probably with
dinosaur like critters wandering about em.Yes that was the case in the '50s. The
Scientific argument (if you could call it
that) went like something like this -

1. Venus is covered in clouds. We can't
see nothin' of the surface.

2. Clouds contain water which is very
essential for life.

3. Venus is close to the Sun but the
clouds will reflect over 60% of all the
heat, and surface temperatures close
to that of our Equator will result.

4. With all that rain and clouds there,
the planet surface must be tropical.

5. Ergo there must be tropical plants
and animals - probably dinosauric in
development.

So where they'd (surprisingly) went
wrong is...

Observation - Well there is absolutely
NOTHING to see on Venus.

Conclusion - It must be teeming with
life!

Fortunately Science is self-correcting
and we know now that with a surface
temperature of 462C and a pressure
of 96 atmospheres of CO2, (clouds of
H2SO4 needs no mention), any form
of life that found itself there would
instantly be torn to pieces right down
to the cellular level.

PS - I'm a rabid supporter of returning
Pluto back as a planet. The argument
that it isn't is full of holes. Sir Jupe &
Lady Saturn would be unimpressed in
the extreme if they were both suddenly
declared to be failed suns and not the
planetary supremos of the Sol system.

Fareastdriver
26th May 2014, 07:14
IIRC Venus has such a corrosive atmosphere that when the first Russian probe parachuted to the surface they got about two piccies before the lens barrel dissolved.

acbus1
26th May 2014, 08:17
The Curiosity Rover sends regular Mars pics and NASA publish them freely. Some are amazing. I subscribed to email notifications a while back, although that's lapsed after a server change. I assume its still available.

Mars Exploration Rover Mission: Home (http://marsrover.nasa.gov/home/index.html)

ZOOKER
26th May 2014, 09:09
It's a great picture though, even with the ESO southern sky overlay. Presumably they have also digitally removed the support holding the camera? If you zoom right out the photographing lens appears to be suspended above the vehicle.

Worrals in the wilds
26th May 2014, 10:58
Looks like Birdsville without the pub. :\:}
I still have the first photgraphic astronomy book I received as a child.
The photos are fuzzy and black and white, pre Voyager, Hubble et al but I still loved them, particularly the pictures of Saturn. The modern stuff never ceases to amaze me; the photos just get better and better. :ok:

IIRC the original Star Trek synopsis had Mr Spock as a Martian, but they changed it to Vulcan after the first pictures of the surface indicated a lack of pointy eared scientists. Even in the 1970s I thought there was a fair amount of speculation wrt the surfaces of Mars and Venus.

And +1 for Pluto being a planet.

Limeygal
26th May 2014, 11:16
For Pluto fans "How I Murdered Pluto and Why It Had It Coming" by Mike Brown is a good read :ok:

MagnusP
26th May 2014, 11:21
I see that Colin Pillinger, who was active in Mars research and whose Beagle2 mission sadly failed, passed away earlier this month.

mikedreamer787
26th May 2014, 11:29
Half-Martian Worrals. Mr Spock was recast
as a half-Vulcan instead 'cause apparently
Gene R thought Mankind might get its ass
to Mars during the show's running.

Worrals in the wilds
26th May 2014, 11:35
Cheers. I'd forgotten that he was half Vulcan... probably time I rewatched the Original Series/Movies.
Gene was always the optimist! :}

Mr Optimistic
26th May 2014, 12:34
Hmm, spectroscopic analysis in the 50's must have been good enough to figure out the composition of the upper atmosphere. Can't think why that wouldn't have precluded life. As to why anyone though chlorophyll based life could have existed under that cloud layer...dunno. Wasn't there some guy who reckoned there were signs of intelligent life made artefacts on Mars even more recently than that. And there were otherwise intelligent people who believed that guy with his planet collisions....Vel-something-other.

Yes to Pluto. 9 is obviously an appropriate number for planets in a system. 8 is so last Wednesday.

tony draper
26th May 2014, 13:28
Worlds in Collision, Immanuel Velikovsky,read it when I was about ten and it scared the shit out of me.:uhoh:

mikedreamer787
26th May 2014, 16:09
Don't get me started on the Velikovsky affair.

..So-called "scientists" rubbishing the hell out
of a fellow scientist who put forward a theory
and who was entitled to do so when it comes
to Science.

These clowns acted more like the Inquisition
than scientists. Instead of testing his theory
using absolute rigorous skepticism and free
enquiry, these dicks resorted to ad hominem
and other attacks on the bloke. It was more
like a bloody religious crusade than Science.

While Velikovsky's theory has been disproved
since, through Natural evidence and the math,
these buggers should be ashamed for dragging
the intent of scientific enquiry through the mud.

Mr Optimistic
26th May 2014, 18:44
ERM, I think you have already started.:)

james ozzie
26th May 2014, 19:02
The night shot has a lot of ambient light on the ground. I know the camera's light gathering ability is a factor but I guess it is all starlight? (No moonlight!!)

Mr Optimistic
26th May 2014, 19:43
With clouds overhead
File:Victoria clouds.gif - Wikimedia Commons (http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Victoria_clouds.gif)

mikedreamer787
27th May 2014, 03:22
ERM, I think you have already started. :)

True, but I did stop. ;)