617 Squadron - After The Dams

[John Nichol]

If you are at a loose end this Bank Holiday Monday -

"What The Dambusters Did Next" - CH5 2100

What the Dambusters did next: The missions that changed the course of WWII | World | News | Daily Express (http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/477921/What-the-Dambusters-did-next)

[rolling20]

Depending on what you read and if you care to believe it, 617 should probably have been disbanded when Gibson left. Holden wasn't liked, Martin was thought lacking in administrative experience when given temporary command. Appalling losses and poor operations added to hit moral. You would have thought that after the dams losses, the use of heavy bombers on low level targets would have been abandoned. Like many aspects of the bomber war however Bomber Command ploughed on regardless and many more brave men paid the ultimate price.

[Dash8driver1312]

Rolling20, I would point you towards the fact that IX and 617 did bag the Tirpitz...and they could do precision better than the Pathfinders.

[rolling20]

Dash, I think you are missing the point old boy. Tirpitz was sunk in September 44 and by 9 Squadron according to legend. There were a lot of misses and losses before then. 8 Group was never used for precision targets. This became a bone of contention later in the war between Bennett and Cochrane.

[Dash8driver1312]

IX AND 617, old boy.

Wizernes. Bielefeld. Shall I continue?

[oldpax]

All the night bombing should have stopped ,to many losses.The RAF would have been better off building more twin eng types like the Mosquito and sending daylight low levels with much more precision and therefore good usage of resources.
Just my opinion of course!

[Dash8driver1312]

All for the Mossie! Same bomb load as the B-17 with the same range and 8 less crew, 2 less engines, and performance to beat most fighters of its day once the bombs are gone! But it couldn't carry a Tallboy ;-)

[Phileas Fogg]

All for the Mossie! Same bomb load as the B-17 with the same range and 8 less crew, 2 less engines, and performance to beat most fighters of its day once the bombs are gone! But it couldn't carry a Tallboy ;-)

And the famous boss of 617 perished in a Mossie!

http://www.penarthtimes.co.uk/resources/images/2210718.jpg?type=articleLandscap

[rolling20]

Don't bother dash, you've bored me enough already.

[CNH]

Nowt like hindsight, is there?

[ExAscoteer]

It's a bit bloody rich coming on here merely to advertise your own programme OP.

[John Nichol]

"It's a bit bloody rich coming on here merely to advertise your own programme OP."

Really? I didn't think so!

[joy ride]

I watched it on C5 last night. Very interesting programme.

Leonard Cheshire gave a lecture at my school when I was 8-12 years old and I have learned more about him since, but I was still mightily impressed by details of his missions.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Great programme, John. Informative and enjoyable.

[John Nichol]

Thanks for the comments - jolly kind!

& to those who contacted me via Twitter @JohnNicholRAF - much appreciated

[Ted Angus]

Having served for 39 years - 3 of them in the Vulcan days at Scampton- I often cringe when some of these types of programmes come on the TV - especially some about 617 - but I have to say I thoroughly enjoyed the programme John - Well done Sir !!

[BOAC]

Saw it tonight on a re-run - well done, John. I had no idea the squadron did so much after the dams. Huge credit to those guys.

[John Nichol]

many thanks again to all - very much appreciated

[Phileas Fogg]

John Nichol,

I can't watch UK TV from where I am, IP addresses and all that, when might this programme be likely to find it's way to youtube please?

[John Nichol]

Hi Phileas - not really sure when/if it will end up on YouTube to be honest.

But it will be on Nat Geo in the next few months if that is any use?

[Phileas Fogg]

Hi Phileas - not really sure when/if it will end up on YouTube to be honest.

But it will be on Nat Geo in the next few months if that is any use?

Thanks, I'll monitor

[DaveReidUK]

Down here in NZ I hear Peter Jackson is about to remake the classic movie.One of the 10 fibreglass Lancaster replicas built in preparation for the filming:

http://www.stormclimb.com/wp-content/plugins/hungred-image-fit/scripts/timthumb.php?src=http://www.stormclimb.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/lancaster-bomber-dambusters-remake.jpg&h=0&w=600&zc=1&q=100

[Phileas Fogg]

One of the 10 fibreglass Lancaster replicas built in preparation for the filming:

Where are they going to source the flying examples from as there are only two, possibly a third, flying examples remaining?

Or is this to be a movie of less than ideal special effects whereas we're supposed to believe that fibreglass models are bombing the dams?

[FlightlessParrot]

This is Peter Jackson. It will be all CGI, no narrative, annoying in-jokes, and an intrusive appearance by the auteur himself.

Let's hope he never gets round to it.

[John Nichol]

If anyone missed it, you can see this doco running on National Geographic most of this week. Now titled, "Dambusters' Secret Missions"

Twitter @JohnNicholRAF

[ian16th]

John,

It does not appear in the listings of the flavour of National Geographic that is received here in Southern Africa, via DSTV/MultiChoice

If you have any contacts with NG, could you please ask if and when we might be getting it?

TIA

[John Nichol]

Sorry Ian, I have no contacts with NG at all - they didn't even tell the production company they were airing it! I only found out 'cos someone tweeted me.
@JohnNicholRAF

[Peter-RB]

My family have a long association with the RAF especially 617 and 272 Sqdns, having been brought up as a "Boomer" listening to the tales told to me by my much respected Uncles and father, I find it difficult to listen and even accept the new and modern day slant of how historians and film makers see things now and try to re-write history after a frame by frame dissection of grainy old films taken at the height of some serious military operations, wartime films and Sqdn diaries of events that happened 70 years ago will be inaccurate, but at the time that was all we had to try and record what had happened only a few hours earlier.

I don't think we are quite as bad as the Yanks making a film about "they were the ones to discover and get hold of the Enigma decoding machine" sadly in that era there was a lot of Flawed thinking in planning and expectations of just what could be achieved , after all even Bader was shot out of the Sky and he was supposed to be a super hero!.

I enjoyed the film that was narrated by Jon Nichol, and possibly like many people on this small Island of our I have a great respect for his ability, and even a greater repect for him and his fellow pilot who both went to hell and back, during the episode of Mr Blair's war on Iraq.

What is also nice is that he is able to answer critics who seem to feel indignant at comment made in the recent showing of the film about the flyers of 617 Sqdn, who will forever be a much respected Squadron like all the rest who have some history of action taken against the bad guys.

Some of us have the benefit of knowing what happened because we were around at the time, but accuracy of War facts is something that history cannot guarantee..... ref the recent comments of the dribbling Generals of the Iraq/Afghanistan conflict...!

Peter R-B
Lancashire