Met Office : Research Flying

[CoffmanStarter]

I came across a very interesting publication earlier this week on the Met Office Website and thought that other members might appreciate the link. It covers the 70 years of flying operations at the MRF from 1942 until 2012 and contains quite a few unique photos.

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/media/pdf/5/a/70_years_of_ARF_271112.pdf

Particularly interesting are the two Canberras that served with the MRF ... a B2 WJ582 (1953 to 1962 when W/O WJ582 (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=21099)) and a PR3 WE173 (1963 to 1981 - Retired)

Here is a pic of WE173 in formation with Snoopy XV208 (Snoopy served 28 years with MRF until 2001 before becoming an engine testbed for the A400M with Marshalls at Cambridge and apparently is now being broken up :()

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/cfba413b-55c9-4e46-b7e9-28e643312d7c_zps0a4f6647.png

Image Credit : Crown

I believe WE173 at some point also had a smaller nose radome apart from the "Barbers Pole" shown here. Strangely, through another coincidence this week, I understand that the remaining cockpit section of WE173 is but a few miles from me here in East Sussex in the hands of a private collector ... hopefully going to pop over this Sunday to grab a few pics.

A question for the ex-Canberra community ...

Would that Barbers Pole have likely caused any significant handling issues in asymmetric flight ... say on approach ? Presumably crews would have been required to undertake regular CT including asymmetric config ... just a genuine interest really.



Best ...

Coff.

[langleybaston]

That is a great find, and I found the article absolutely fascinating, thank you.

Because I was a mainstream weatherperson I had little direct contact with the MRF but they were held in high esteem by us dogsbodies.

The results of their flights were of very direct and real benefit in day-to-day forecasting, not just airy-fairy research.

[Wander00]

As a mere amateur as regards the technicalities of weather I found the paper fascinating, and understood most of it. (Better than with the Journal of the Royal Institute of Navigation, where I am doing well if I understand the title!)

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

A more personal account of Met Research flying (albeit by 202 Sqn, not the MRF) is given here:

Meterological Briefing - 202 Squadron Association (http://www.202-sqn-assoc.co.uk/meterological-briefing.html)

A detailed history of 202's association with Met Research flying will be published later this year as part of the Sqn's Centenary activities. Watch this space!

[langleybaston]

I have told this tale elsewhere but what the heck ................

At HQ 1 Gp in 1981 I had a colleague who had been, in his youth, an Air Met. Observer.
The above is true, the remainder is a paraphrase of his story:

Whilst in uniform, with his nice M brevet, he was accosted by an elderly Air Commode who demanded to know what the M stood for, it being exceeding rare.

"Midwife, sir!"

"What!?"

"Lot of pregnant women on the trooping flights sir!"

"Carry on sergeant!"

I don't believe a word of it, but it made oi larf.

[CoffmanStarter]

WE173 with the smaller nose radome ... date unknown ... possibly taken at RAF Greenham Common.

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/imagejpg1_zps1c0bd304.jpg

Image Credit : John Canberra Talk (http://canberratalk.conforums.com/index.cgi?board=scrap&num=1263862650&action=display&start=30)

[B Fraser]

Thanks for that Mr Coffman and for the link to the WJ582 incident. I worked with Allen Lock from 1982 in Bracknell (Met 08 Hydrology) and fondly remember him as a genuinely nice chap. His injuries from the crash were severe and I was told that it was very touch and go at the time as to whether he would survive.


A few years later, I had some fun on board Snoopy. I think that one of the regular RAF crew was a chap named Stokes. I can't recall his rank.


cheers


B


Weatherguesser 1982 - 1988.

[thing]

As a matter of interest a chap who inhabits the GA section of the forum is head of FAAM. I'll let him know there's interest!

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks for joining in B Fraser :ok:

Cheers Thing :ok:

[dragartist]

Thanks for posting Coff.
It was probably seeing Snoopy under construction at Cambridge during a school visit which inspired me. I did a bit of design work for a comms fit in the late 80s when the aircraft was operated from Farnborough.
We had GG come to Cambridge RAeS to tell us about the FAAM 146 a couple of years back. looking forward to finding the time to read the full article. Nice pictures.
Drag

[CoffmanStarter]

Drag ... I had a feeling you might have had a bit of design input somewhere along the line :ok:

Best regards ...

Coff.

[smujsmith]

Coff,

Great subject matter, and the photo at #1 should be included in the other thread on 60 years of Albert. As an ex A line chap, I had little contact with 208 (it was a B Line bucket) but it was certainly an interesting aircraft, that I understand was well thought of by the meteorologists and scientists who used it as a test platform.

Smudge:ok:

[CoffmanStarter]

Smudge ... See #46, #47 on the Herc thread :ok:

I just thought the MRF topic deserved it's own dedicated thread ...

[NutLoose]

Current one

Home (http://www.faam.ac.uk/)

:)

[Courtney Mil]

As always, Coff, you an eye for a great thread. Fascinating. Thank you.

langleybaston, good input too. Of course

:ok::D

[CoffmanStarter]

Thanks Courtney ... Mind you WJ582 up at 70N 48,000 feet North of Leuchars ... I believe that's Air Defender territory :ok:

[Genghis the Engineer]

We had GG come to Cambridge RAeS to tell us about the FAAM 146 a couple of years back. looking forward to finding the time to read the full article. Nice pictures.

Who wrote a different take on the history of MRF here (http://aerosociety.com/Assets/Docs/Publications/The%20Journal%20of%20Aeronautical%20History/2012-06_MetFlight-Gratton.pdf).


It shows a few interesting links: the Duxford met flight generating a lot of the planning principles used in the BoB, as well as a training ground for Jeffrey Quill. WV208 went on to be used as a testbed for the engines for the A400M.

Another variant on the history is by Kirsty McBeath here (http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/met.1448/abstract) (which should be open access, but doesn't seem to be this weekend.)

(None of the authors disagree with each other about anything significant, but think that different things are important - although there's a bit of good natured bickering between them about the start point of atmospheric research flying in Britain: GG puts it in 1918 with the RFC Meteor Flight, whilst KM puts it at 1942 with Alan Brewer going to the HAF.)

Snoopy's red and white striped nose, incidentally, is now on permanent display in the atrium of the (new) Met Office HQ in Exeter.

G

[smujsmith]

Coff,

Apologies indeed, it must have been a "senior moment". Great pics though.

Smudge:ok:

[Courtney Mil]

Coff,

Air Defence in a slightly adventurous kind of way, perhaps. Enormous fun, though. :ok:

[NRU74]

Blimey, 30,000 ft in a Hastings !

I was transiting through Nigeria in the mid/late sixties and we met the Minister of Aviation. He was wearing a uniform which didn't fit him very well (possibly belonging to his deposed predecessor) but he was wearing an S
brevet
Apparently he'd been a Sergeant Siggy on the Hastings Met Flight - I think he said they operated out of Aldergrove

[chevvron]

Sometime before 1981, a helicopter in the circuit at Farnborough reported to ATC that he had heard the MRF Canberra transmitting a 'mayday' call on 243 mhz. It had departed Farnborough some time previously for a research flight over the Bay of Biscay and indeed, this was where the 'mayday' call originated.
MRF aircrew weren't specialist aircrew, but were Hercules crew on detachment from Lyneham. On arrival at Farnborough, the pilots were given conversion training onto the Canberra.
Apparently what happened was, the pilot (name witheld) had somehow encountered a double flameout, but managed to land at a French military airfield having managed to re-light.
By the way, at Aldergrove in 1963 (long before it became Belfast International) there was a squadron of Hastings called the 'Met' Squadron (I think it was 208 but I may be wrong). Did these have any relationship to MRF?

[Genghis the Engineer]

That was 202sqn. Halifaxes which were replaced later with Hastings.

They used some of the same instrumentation as MRF, but were managed from a different bit of the Met Office and had a rather different role. 202 were flying "meteorological reconnaissance flights" to provide daily inputs into the daily Met Office forecasts, whilst MRF was conducting research flying to support developing forecasting science.

G

[John Botwood]

MRF coverage for Grapple was provided by the Shackletons on detachment. The MarkI's nose position with the specialised instruments was an extremely cosy workplace for the Met Observer. In fact, one of them on Grapple Z stated that the Shackleton had been initially designed for that purpose.

JohnB

[B Fraser]

Farnborough was the home of the MRF in the '80s before it relocated to Boscombe (I think).

The science on-board was rather whizzy. The laser pods under the wings could capture holographic images of ice crystals suspended in the atmosphere.


..... and then there was the chem trail tank for dispersing bromide over East Anglia......... only kidding. ;)

[Descend to What Height?!?]

Question I have is what happened to the elephant with the red and white nose that sat above the nav's station on the flight deck?

Another interesting read about met recce sqns is
"Even the Birds Were Walking" the story of wartime meteorological reconnaissance. John A Kingston & Peter G Racklife
Isbn 0-7524-2016-x
Had the great pleasure of meeting Peter at a MMU dinner in the mess at Scampton (well Kirton in Lindsy) several years ago.

[CoffmanStarter]

For those interested ... here are the pics I took this afternoon of Canberra PR3 WE173 at the Robertsbridge Aviation Museum.

Robertsbridge Aviation Museum East Sussex (https://sites.google.com/site/robertsbridgeaviation/)

Canberra WE173 was the 25th PR3 to be built out of a total build of 34 by EE at Preston. The PR3 entered service in December 1952 and WE173 was delivered to the RAF on 6th November 1953. She served with 82, 88, 69 and 39 Squadrons. WE173 was withdrawn from service when the PR3 was replaced by the PR7. WE173 then went on to serve with the MRF beginning 15th May 1969 and amongst it's many duties was involved in "turbulence research" from Buckley Field, Denver, Colorado, USA. She was retired on 4th March 1983. WE173 then went to RAF Coltishall for Battle Damage Repair training under Maintenance No 8740M. Upon retirement from MFR Ops she was the last PR3 still flying and is one of only four left in existence (albeit just a cockpit section now).

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_0016_zpsf34ffe3c.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_0017_zps5cca116f.jpg

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/IMG_0015_zpsc695b1f9.jpg

Unfortunately the nose section is missing and I assume the MRF livery was overpainted during her time on BDR Flight at RAF Coltishall. A bit sad to see but at least she has been saved from the Scrap Metal Man.

Coff.

PS. I salute the enthusiastic members of the RAM who have achieved so much with minimal resources. :D:D:D:D

[langleybaston]

The authors were: Kington, J. A. & Rackliff, P. G.

Kington was one of my lecturers when I started out [if I recall accurately] and I new Rackliff by sight.

Another stalwart of Met. Research was, I believe, Stan Cornford, who later became a magnificent Principal of the Met. Office College Shinfield Park, a gentleman and a great pleasure to serve under.

[ValMORNA]

Coffman,


Interesting pictures of R.A.M. I have passed the sign on many occasions while negotiating the A21, but have never visited. My brother-in-law is a member and, while talking to his brother just yesterday he mentioned the subject and informed me who the illustrious Chairman is, or possibly, was.

[CoffmanStarter]

ValMORNA ... Yes ... an AVM of Black Arrow fame. The Co-Chairman is also a well known Captain RN Test Pilot with the ME262 in his Log Book :ok:

[B Fraser]

the Met. Office College Shinfield Park

a.k.a. Shinditz

The European Centre for Medium Range Weather Forecasting (ECMWF) received a new title. We called it Early Closing Mondays Wednesdays and Fridays.

[Trim Stab]

A question for the ex-Canberra community ...

Would that Barbers Pole have likely caused any significant handling issues in asymmetric flight ... say on approach ? Presumably crews would have been required to undertake regular CT including asymmetric config ... just a genuine interest really.

I think the leading edge of the fin on that aircraft has been extended?

I discovered recently on looking at the Canberra at the Solway Museum at Carlisle airport that the leading edge of the fin is wooden. This was apparently so that it could be more easily trimmed during initial testing. It would thus be relatively easy to add a bit to the leading edge of the fin if necessary.

[kaitakbowler]

Coff, Re your link page 7, 30000ft in a Hastings!

PM

[CoffmanStarter]

Trim ...

That sounds very plausible, but it's quite difficult to judge to what extend the fin leading edge may have been so modified from the pics. Shame WE173 is just a cockpit section now. You never know ... someone may come up with more info :ok:

Kaitakbowler ...

In November 1950 MRF suffered a tragic loss. Flt Lt K.L.Howard DFM, a member of the MRF aircrew, died in the Cambridge Military Hospital in Aldershot, as a result of "decompression collapse". This followed a flight to 30000ft in Hastings TG618 during an experiment to investigate the tropopause.

There doesn't seem to be very much info on this tragic event readily available on-line. Given the Hastings "normal" service ceiling was published at 26,500 feet it would be interesting to understand what mods were made to the aircraft and what the crew life support arrangements were ... some form of partial pressure jerkin and pressure helmet perhaps ? Certainly the Taylor Helmet and PPJ, as used by Lightning pilots, was a later 60's technology.

Coff.

[Wander00]

Used to take JPs to 35,000 ft unpressurised. ISTR Canberra at 40,000 ft pressurised to 26,000 ft equivalent. Don't recall anyone getting altitude sickness, though common mountaineering at lower levels. Can anyone explain

[B Fraser]

Not running around and breathing a higher o2 pressure than someone at sea level...... you probably felt terrific. ;)

[ancientaviator62]

Coffman,
the highest I can remember being in a Hastings was 22000 feet and neither the crew nor the a/c seem to enjoy the experience. Must have taken ages to get to 33000 feet. Perhaps chugalug with his Hastings experience can elucidate. Been to 35000 feet in a Herc on high level free fall trials. We had special oxy fit, and had to pre-oxygenate on the ground for an hour. It was very cold up there !

[lightningmate]

To return to the original question, I cannot recall any non-standard, asymmetric operating procedures for WE173. I only flew it on a few occasions, cannot remember why, but guess MRF were short of their own Canberra qualified pilots for some reason.

The Pershore/Bedford Canberra fleet had some more extreme nose configurations!

lm

[BSweeper]

Used to take JPs to 35,000 ft unpressurised. ISTR Canberra at 40,000 ft pressurised to 26,000 ft equivalent. Don't recall anyone getting altitude sickness, though common mountaineering at lower levels. Can anyone explain.

The Canberra, in common with many, had a pressurisation schedule of half the altitude plus 2000. So at 45,000, the cabin alt was 24,500. Mild decompression can start at 18,000 and it was common to get "aching joints and shoulders" on long transits.

[Wander00]

Flew some of the Pershore based fleet in mid 60s - don't recall any nose-profile related issues - but then I am not sure what I had for breakfast. "Breakfast" - what's that?

[CoffmanStarter]

Many thanks LM :ok:

[Mercury Rising]

I would be interested in purchasing this cockpit (WE173) if it ever came up for sale.

[Tinribs]

We had many modified Canberras at Bedford some extremely so and of course the SC9 built funny in the first place

The canberras were much used by changing the front section at the transport joint so some had various configurations during their lives
The 9 did not have a transport joint which limited the scope for change

[CoffmanStarter]

MR ...

You could give the guys a Robertsbridge a call and signal your interest ... See details on my previous post (#26).

Coff.

[Mercury Rising]

Thanks Coff, I have e-mailed them. I have now purchased the gust probe from WE173.

[CoffmanStarter]

MR ...

Are you planning, if possible, to restore WE173 (cockpit/nose) to the MET config ?

[Mercury Rising]

I would like to. I need to go and see the people at Robertsbridge. I'm not sure if they want WE173 in particular or any Canberra cockpit. I was at MRF in the late 70s and early 80s and when 173 was retired many of us felt it should have gone to a museum but the RAF were having none of it and said it had to go to Coltishall. Had they not camouflaged it I think there would have been a chance to save it but by the mid-1980s it appeared to be just another Canberra.

[CoffmanStarter]

MR ...

I wish you luck and please keep us updated :ok:

[Mercury Rising]

Thank you - will do.

[JimCrawford]

from TrimStab;

"I discovered recently on looking at the Canberra at the Solway Museum at Carlisle airport that the leading edge of the fin is wooden. This was apparently so that it could be more easily trimmed during initial testing. It would thus be relatively easy to add a bit to the leading edge of the fin if necessary."

My first job after Uni was with the Radar Research Squadron based at Thurleigh, it had just moved from Pershore. I was told that the person responsible for the wooden leading edge of the fin was the head of RRS at that time, Bob Rumsey, and that it was used to cover an antenna (possibly Decca?).

Years later I found myself joining MRF and working on Hercules XV208, finishing retiring from FAAM and the 146. Best job in the world for many enjoyable years.

Jim

[CoffmanStarter]

Hi Jim ...

Many thanks for joining the Thread :ok:

I wonder if you might be persuaded to share a little more insight and perhaps tell a few stories from your time with FAAM. It's certainly a fascinating topic and potentially of interest to quite a few members here ...

Best ...

Coff.

PS. Just for a bit of background ...

Facility for Airborne Atmospheric Measurements (http://www.faam.ac.uk)

http://i1004.photobucket.com/albums/af162/CoffmanStarter/home_photo_zpsoqz882cb.jpg

Image Credit : FAAM

[Marbles]

While researching I learned that Victor Beamish, Station Commander at North Weald 75 years ago, had been awarded the AFC in 1938 for establishing the Met. Flight at RAF Aldergrove.

Beamish had been invalided out of the RAF in 1933 after contracting TB. In 1936 he became Aldergrove's civilian adjutant until reinstated to flying duties in 1937 and appointed OC No. 2 Armament Training Camp (ATC) at Aldergrove. My subject, OC the Station Flight at the time, spent some of his time flying Met. flights to 19,000 ft in a Bulldog.

[smujsmith]

I remember begging a trip in a Shack, circa 1980 when I was repairing a bent Hunter at Lossiemouth. The 12 hour flight involved a lot of droning over the North Sea, a fly past at Linton on Ouse (I think) and a two hour lecture by a chap called Graham South, a met office observer doing a study on cumulus clouds (do you know him Langley ?). I think the post flight debrief we contrived in the Sgts Mess was a more successful outcome to our experience.

Smudge :ok: