PA's , what to say now??

[sizematters]

Now that we are no longer worthy of the title "Captain", what do you say on the PA now ??

"Ladies and gentlemen. this is the bloke on the flight deck??"

I really don't see why anyone would say, "This is your Captain speaking" when they have removed the title from Crew direct and staff travel.

I know this may seem a trivial thing but it seems CX wants to take away any possibility of being shown the respect we deserve.............................

[Bo Wing]

I'm still addressed as "captain" in crew direct but I forced the change by going into People CX and stipulating I wanted to be addressed as captain in all internal company communications. Not sure about staff travel though??

[GusHoneybun]

Captain is a job description, not a personal title.

"Ladies and Gents, my name is Joe Bloggs, and I will be your Captain today"

[Stage5]

Captain is a job description, not a personal title.

Best tell the banks, institutions etc to remove it from their forms of address then. Captain is a title and is earnt, just as "Major", "Lord Lieutenant" etc. Some titles are acquired such us "Your Grace", "Your Holiness", "you utter toss pot" etc

[Shutterbug]

Captain is a job description, not a personal title.

Urhm.... excuse me, but... what the **** are you smoking? PILOT is a job description. Pilot in Command is a job description. CAPTAIN is a rank and a title. And most certainly within the context of a corporation that operates wide body jets... oh.... like.... say.... a well known international airline.

The general idiocy and self-loathing on display is stupefying.

[PENKO]

Are you guys serieus? I am a captain on my aircraft when on duty. Outside of it I am employee 0012345. At home I am daddy. In the supermarket I'm a customer. And when I am going on holiday, I cringe when the gate staff call me by the very function I do not want to be reminded of for a fortnight!!

Shutterbug, what do you call your superiors then? 'Your eminence'? Do you address your line manager as 'your grace'? They have certainly earned it! And what has the width of the body of your aircraft have to do with it? Is it ok to scrap the title if you adres a Dash 8 captain?

[SloppyJoe]

I don't think anyone posting in this thread is expecting or wishing to be addressed as Captain when not at work. Most would not care if they were called by their first name by those who knew it. The issue in this thread, PENKO, is the continual devaluation of our job at this airline. All internal memo type documents relating to jumpseats, staff travel, anything to do with WORK has recently had Captain removed and been replaced with Mr or Mrs. In a work environment I absolutely agree than a Captain should be addressed as Captain xyz initially. Maybe at your airline you don't think it has been earned but at this one I can assure you that it has. It is about respect for the position and nothing to do with ego in most cases.

[XFR8]

Gushoneybun

I beg to differ. Your personal title is Captain whilst you're on the aircraft. It becomes a job description whilst not on the aircraft.

[triplesevencommuter]

Airline Captain is listed in Debretts Guide.
He is to be addressed as 'Captain'.
Flight Engineers, First Officers and Second Officers are to be addressed as 'Esquire' abbreviated 'Esq'.
It is a formal Title.
I will scan and post it when I have the time.:)

[flyingbynight]

During office hours I suppose we should always address managers as "General Manager _______" or "Director_____".

I should insist on being referred to as "Senior First Officer flyingbynight" at all times while on duty. - after all I earned the title.

[SloppyJoe]

I think most of you are missing the point. Only a complete imbecile would expect or want to be addressed as captain outside of the work environment. At work, when appropriate and also in company communications the title should be used as wether in the plane or out of it they are still a captain in that company. Are they a captain when in the sim? How about when an STC is giving a training workshop, are they a captain? I don't expect many of them would like to be called captain Bloggs in these scenarios but it does not change the fact that when at work they are a captain, not only when in the aircraft.

As for the comment about calling the ISM by a title, no I do not think that is appropriate. I have only ever come across first names being used in the crew environment and believe it should be this way. The only time that I have ever called a captain, captain, is on occasion when I have answered the call from the back and passed the drink order as the captain would like a xyz as I have forgotten his name. I also use captain if I have written an email to a colleague I do not know who happens to be a captain.

It should be used when appropriate and common sense should dictate when that is. Within the context of company communications, memos etc it should always be used. Just being polite and respecting the position will dictate when used in person. The changing of these things just shows how the company wish to continue to devalue our job, even in small trivial ways such as this. The guy/girl in charge of the lives of 300 people and US$200,000,000 deserves a tad of respect especially as, unlike most ground based jobs, their career is on the line every time they go to work as well as the lives of everyone who goes with them. The continual lack of respect demonstrated by some employers towards pilots is not going to stop, the bottom line seems to outweigh all else including the ability to season your own meal. It is one more degradation aimed at devaluing our job and it amazes me how some find it comical that it annoys others that the title has been removed from items such as jumpeat requests.

[jmmoric]

Still waiting for this to happen:

"Airline XXX this is Joe Smith, I will be your Air Traffic Controller for this vectoring for ILS APCH RWY10, the weather today is fine with....." :}

Than after you're established:

"Airline XXX how do you rate this vectoring for the final?" "Contact TWR, it's been a pleasure "flying with you", hope you'll choose us next time for your vectoring.":}

What's the history behind "captain" on an aircraft? I fly a Piper in my sparetime, am I a "captain"? As far as I'm aware most CAA's refer to "Pilot in command", not "captain".

[SloppyJoe]

Why is anyone given a rank or title? Why is an army officer an officer? Why is a police officer an officer? I think first officer makes sense, as does second officer. Why should a military officer be addressed at work in a specific way? To me it shows a chain of command as it does in an airline. It's not that much different as far as the running of things go. The captain is ultimately responsible for the crew, passengers and aircraft is he not? If things get tricky who ultimately decides on everyones fate?

[clunckdriver]

The outfit I retired from uses F/O or Captain on all "retired company travel" documents as this tells the operating crew that there is someone in the back who might be of help should things go pear shaped, remember Kansas City?

[Arfur Dent]

Well said Sloppy. Your post #14 is spot on. Those who denigrate the thrill of getting a first Command on a big jet (no - not on a bl**dy PA28!) either haven't done it or should get another job. It's a big deal - always has been and always should be. Apart from anything else, the Captain has legal powers on board so nobody should be in any doubt as to his identity - and that includes all those Managers intent on disrespect.

[wheels up]

I guess they need to amend part A to:

"Bloggs, you must listen!"

"I need to speak to Bloggs urgently!"

Sort of reminds me of my junior school days when we had a new principal take charge of our school - one of the first things he did was abandon athletics and replace it with team games that had us running around in circles tossing balls to each other in a non-competitive manner, so there would be no winners and no losers. The experiment was a dismal failure.

Our society is doomed...

[ron burgandy]

So if Cn/fo/so are no good as a chain of command descriptors, should we a take a lead from the rest of the company.
Cn- Director aircraft
Fo- General Manager aircraft
So- Manager aircraft
Ism- well, as usual, they're one step ahead already

[China Flyer]

I agree with Arfur, who agrees with Sloppy.

It comes down to responsibility for people's lives and a significant amount of materiel.

That responsibility should not be brushed under the carpet, especially by someone who has no more responsibility (and accountability) than checking and responding to their emails at work.

How many times do we whinge about no one losing their jobs or fronting a court to account for massive losses or fines?

99.9% of the time I'm happy to run a relaxed flight deck on a first-name basis. But if and when the need to exercise my legal responsibilities arises, the salutation of "Captain" should inform people of the position I hold and it's rights, not least of which lies in the Tokyo Convention.

[Killaroo]

How about 'Comrade Captain'?

[Bob Hawke]

"O Captain! My Captain!"

[Bye Bye Baby]

So Ops.A needs amending, for instance:

"This is a formal warning given by Fred of this aircraft" - doesn't have the same ring about it really.
Or try this one on:
"Fred you are not listening" - makes you really stand up and take notice.

I couldn't give two hoots about a title in everyday life, but in our job we have clearly defined roles and a clearly defined chain of command. There should also be clearly defined titles.

[SMOC]

Ok now let's start talking about hats scrambled egg on the brim perhaps :}

[Oasis]

Maybe they will offer our title back in lieu of a pay rise!

[iceman50]

Curtain Rod

If that is the case why are/were you so "desperate" to be a Captain and to receive the salary of said position?

[Joejetjock]

Yet another step, petty as it is, in the systematic dismantling of our professional autonomy, and if the truth be known our entire airline.

Though management somehow have seen fit to attempt to diminish the perception of the position by making an issue of it, fortunately the crew and passengers are aware of what a captain (or FO, or ISM) is, and have no issues with it whatsoever.

CX was built by airline visionaries who understood what it meant to be an airline.

Present management who inherited all this have no clue what an airline is...they do though have a penchant for counting beans and thinking highly of themselves.

[Dropp the Pilot]

I once had occasion to ring our chief pilot at his residence. He answered the phone as "Captain X's residence, Captain X speaking". The stratospheric fatuity of that was sufficient to render me speechless - I had to hang up and call back later when I was better prepared.

Guess his nationality.

[VR-HFX]

Dropp

Sounds like KB to me but not sure how long you have been around.

Reminds me of someone I knew years ago who complained about being called in the middle of the night for medical assistance. He had a PhD in Statistics but insisted on having himself in the phone book as Dr.... 99 change hands was my response.

Take my hat off to Silberfuchs, he always has a clever turn of phrase and a good workaround to any problem...must be on the bus!

Perhaps the best option is to take all rank out of the staff database and see what rostering makes of it.

While they're at it we can get rid of uniforms too. My epaulets stay in my top pocket most of the time anyway as they just get in the way and are a pain to put on.

As we are being treated like sheep perhaps more ovine terminology would suffice.

Captain = 8 tooth
SFO = 6 tooth
FO = 4 tooth
SO = 2 tooth

Departments also could be renamed:

Director People = Fleecing Dept
Staff Travel = Crutching Dept
Flight Ops = Mulesing Dept

But don't let an ageing wether pull the wool over your eyes.

Aye

[SloppyJoe]

including the obligation to accept being lawfully ordered to die.

Is a private an officer as they are far more likely to be given a lawful order to die? I would have thought it more to do with the responsibility of commanding a group of people and having the authority to make decisions, a bit like the captain of an airliner.

[Gnadenburg]

Yes, and the requirement to be last one to evacuate a burning/ smoke filled aircraft could be seen a lawful order to ….

[SloppyJoe]

Obviously they are not commissioned, I never said they were. It is about respect for the duties and responsibility for the job that they do. That is all and I think it deserves the title of captain when in the work environment.

And I have found you an equally awesome wikipedia reference

First officer (aeronautics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_officer_(civil_aviation))

In commercial aviation, the first officer is the second pilot (sometimes referred to as the "co-pilot") of an aircraft. The first officer is second-in-command of the aircraft to the captain, who is the legal commander. In the event of incapacitation of the captain, the first officer will assume command of the aircraft.

[iceman50]

Curtain Rod

I have spent more time using these silly titles and thinking about the point in the last 2 days than in the last 30 yrs since I first started flying...you guys still crack me up taking this meaningless, minor, irrelevant, super silly crap so seriously!


"Wikipedia" the font of all knowledge!:ugh:

[triplesevencommuter]

Curtain Rod your argument is totally meaningless. The RAF have had Sargent Pilots, the Royal Marines and Army still have Sargent Pilots who are non-commissioned officers. So what?

A priest can call himself a Revered. That is his formal Title. It is a Formal Title like Captain. It has nothing to do with the military.

[superfrozo]

I don't know what WE'RE YELLING ABOUT !!?!

[Oasis]

LOUD NOISES!

[White None]

So .... Err .... Missing the core concept of the thread??
Now that we are no longer worthy of the title "Captain", I missed that amendment, where does it say so? Tnx someone

[jacobus]

Resident numb nuts.
It's been removed from our ticketing and the PIL etc " to better align with industry norms" with respect to e- ticketing etc.
Some of our conspiracy minded brethren see it as a not too subtle attempt to undermine our hard earned rank/ positions.
I doubt CX set out with the intention of pissing us off. They certainly seem, as always, to have achieved it.

[jacobus]

“Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp,
Or what's a heaven for?”
― Robert Browning

[monster330]

Like reach for mine y' ho get down
Now dats what hos be for
----Fiddy Cent

[jacobus]

Aah. The benefits of an education.

[White None]

Thanks very much Jacobus. Quotewise..... Err...

"I couldn't give a Toss"

- White None 2014

[jacobus]

We'll done. Your talents are wasted on here.