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View Full Version : NHS bosses 166m in bonuses


acbus1
17th May 2014, 07:58
NHS bosses 'got 166m in bonuses' - BT (http://home.bt.com/news/uknews/nhs-bosses-got-166m-in-bonuses-11363902677206)

Using the wrong criteria for allocating bonuses, whatever they are?

I've often wondered how the disaster area masquerading as our local doctor's practice 'earns' its Doctor/nurses/office staff bonuses. Anyone know? :confused:

Capot
17th May 2014, 09:46
I don't know about GP practice finances, but I do know that my daughter who is a Consultant in a hospital, and all her clinical colleagues at all levels are the people who grimly struggle on to operate a good service while the non-clinical managers, who are without exception low-grade incompetents who do a quite extraordinary amount of damage and lose millions of pounds while doing so, do all they can to screw them up. The clinical staff do not get bonuses, or even thanks.

The clinical staff routinely put in long extra hours - unpaid - to make sure things are done and that patients get the treatment they need. This is usually necessary because of management breakdown. The same cannot be said of the managers. (There are, of course, exceptions, but they are very rare.)

Most (not all) Chief Executives in the NHS would not last 6 months running a pub. They are selected by a bizarre process in which knowing the right people plays an important part. The problem starts there.

N707ZS
17th May 2014, 09:57
The big mistake was setting up the Trust system in the first place, each hospital trust became its own little empire. We could buy in patients from another trust whilst our own local patients had to wait as we had no money to treat the.

Would it improve things to get rid of every trust and return to a one NHS system?

Sop_Monkey
17th May 2014, 10:17
I'm discussed with these people. They loose patients, patients dying in the corridors etc., etc. and these ***** have the audacity to award themselves bonuses. The people that really do deserve a pat on the back are the nurses. What do they get for their dedication? A good kick in the teeth.

The NHS management are not too far removed from greedy bankers.

Alloa Akbar
19th May 2014, 13:56
Agree 100% with Capot.. My other half works on the community as a District Nurse, hopelessly under-manned, with teams of Sisters and Staff Nurses being directly managed by Social Workers.. Madness. The unseen damage being done by non-clinical staff within the NHS is beyond belief.

Groundbased
19th May 2014, 17:40
I too think this is a scandal and these managers should not be milking the system like this.

However, I think it is time we had a grown up debate about the NHS in the UK, set against the insatiable and growing demand for services, drugs and treatment from an ever growing population that is shifting towards the aged end of the scale rapidly.

I'm no expert on delivering health care, but some things seem fairly obvious to me. If people want cosmetic surgery (for vanity reasons), gastric bands, sex change operations etc, etc, they should have to pay for them themselves.

I accept that I am going to have to, at some point, start paying for some of my healthcare. The scope of services delivered needs to be rationalised so that we can balance supply, demand and resource to deliver the best we can.

At the same time useless bureaucracy needs to be cut out to save costs. I would, in fact, be in favour of returning the delivery of healthcare back to a single state organisation provided it was to support a slimmed down version of the deliverables that are currently deemed "untouchable" by the slimy horse traders in Westminster.

A A Gruntpuddock
19th May 2014, 19:10
What do you expect?

Put 'managers' into a situation and the first step is to cozy up to the overseeing authority and make sure that everything goes through them.

Then they establish nice new office suites and armies of assistants to show how busy and important they are.

Get it all arranged properly and they end up taking everything except responsibility.

Seen it happening too often.

Mac the Knife
19th May 2014, 19:34
"...Consultant in a hospital, and all her clinical colleagues at all levels are the people who grimly struggle on to operate a good service while the non-clinical managers, who are without exception low-grade incompetents who do a quite extraordinary amount of damage and lose millions of pounds while doing so, do all they can to screw them up. The clinical staff do not get bonuses, or even thanks.

The clinical staff routinely put in long extra hours - unpaid - to make sure things are done and that patients get the treatment they need. This is usually necessary because of management breakdown. The same cannot be said of the managers. (There are, of course, exceptions, but they are very rare.)

Most (not all) Chief Executives in the NHS would not last 6 months running a pub. They are selected by a bizarre process in which knowing the right people plays an important part. The problem starts there."

A familar story

Mac :yuk:

con-pilot
19th May 2014, 21:14
I don't know about GP practice finances, but I do know that my daughter who is a Consultant in a hospital, and all her clinical colleagues at all levels are the people who grimly struggle on to operate a good service while the non-clinical managers, who are without exception low-grade incompetents who do a quite extraordinary amount of damage and lose millions of pounds while doing so, do all they can to screw them up. The clinical staff do not get bonuses, or even thanks.

The clinical staff routinely put in long extra hours - unpaid - to make sure things are done and that patients get the treatment they need. This is usually necessary because of management breakdown. The same cannot be said of the managers. (There are, of course, exceptions, but they are very rare.)

Most (not all) Chief Executives in the NHS would not last 6 months running a pub. They are selected by a bizarre process in which knowing the right people plays an important part. The problem starts there.

Thank you for that look into the future under Obamacare. :(

gingernut
19th May 2014, 22:36
It's not rocket science.

Demand exceeds capacity.

We should be running on about an 85% mark, instead we're running on 110%.

Nervous SLF
19th May 2014, 23:56
OK this isn't about the NHS but here in NZ medical staff at the hospital where SWMBO worked were also treated much worse
than "managers" and their hangers ons, sorry I mean PA's. It seemed to me that even kitchen staff and cleaners were more
highly thought of as well. Security protection for staff finishing late shifts or starting nights was a joke as they only had ONE
security man to cover the whole hospital at that time of night. When visitors caused problems heaven help the medical staff
if they called the Police as that would make the hospital look bad.:ugh:I could also mention bullying of staff as well :eek:

I could go on and on but I will not do so but only to protect you readers from pain.

wdew
20th May 2014, 06:16
The disasterous NHS is here already. Started the same system in Queensland now with HHS and some NHS managers employed in Queensland Health . We are screwed . Private healthcare is being advanced along the line of outsourcing or Publicprivate enterprises and the insurance companies are so looking forward to this. We are going to repeat all the mistakes ofthe British and Americans.

gingernut
20th May 2014, 08:27
My own opinion is that the NHS is fantastic, mainly due to the people who serve under it.

We are oversubscribed, it's that simple.

Of course we need managing, - but if I had a large brush, I'd be sweeping out those that don't contribute to what we are designed for - improving peoples health.

ExRAFRadar
20th May 2014, 08:52
Here is a true story from the UK

A few years ago I busted my arm and was in hospital for about 2 weeks as they repaired the elbow.

You know the tables that come across the bed for meal times ?
Rather sensibly they have a raised border so plates cannot be pushed/pulled off the table.

3 or 4 days into my stay a large female Manager type with a very middle class accent popped up with an entourage to announce they were replacing the meal tables with brand new shiny ones.

You know where this is going.

Yes, they had no rims.

Within 10 minutes of trying to use them an elderly patient had managed to deposit his lunch into his bed.

Now, this dork of a Manager was still hanging around with her self congratulating bunch of knobs.

Being walking wounded I sidled up and asked very politely asked if she realised she had replace a fully working, efficient table with ones that were unfit for the job.

She looked at me like I was the shit on her shoe.

At this point I admit and lost it and went in to pure ex military sarcasm mode. Did not win any friends that day from the Management but the nurses seemed to like it.

If that was the level of competence in a 'middle' manager God alone knows what the higher echelons are like.

Alloa Akbar
20th May 2014, 10:19
Fundamental management and organisational failings within the NHS, compounded by a large and growing group of patients who place un-necessary extra pressure on an over-stretched system through sheer selfishness and disregard for others.

Never going to end well for anyone.

cattletruck
20th May 2014, 12:50
If I may quote Capot too

Most (not all) Chief Executives in the NHS would not last 6 months running a pub. They are selected by a bizarre process in which knowing the right people plays an important part.

Where there's money there's always the formation of what I call 'management refugee camps'. It stems directly from the new school of management thinking.

Here we have to pay compulsory traffic accident insurance (TAC fee) on our vehicles annually. What started as a good idea originally has skyrocketed to an annual fee of $440. Why so much? Creative over servicing? We even have a government department dedicated to them. I recently took them to task on fbook for wasting money on a feel-good road victim exhibition. I told them that the $440 cost could allow someone to update all 4 tyres on their car making it brake safer, or could help someone save up for a car with better safety features. Then this girl jumped in on the conversation who was knocked over by a car while riding her bike and broke her hip. TAC paid for her full care, salary compensation, and lots of follow up treatment. She was back to work within a month :confused:, she sounded naive and received lots of supportive pats on the back by the TAC marketting manager running the fbook page. I just got blocked.

If you do the sums, 3 million vehicles multiplied by $440 means they all eat very well at this refugee camp.

Blacksheep
20th May 2014, 12:59
NHS Foundation Trusts - another New Labour disaster.

Yet the hoi-poloi complain about Tory Privatisation - will we never learn?

Saintsman
20th May 2014, 21:06
I had to spend an afternoon in A&E recently and had time to look around.

They were busy, stuff going on all around me. Then I noticed the kit, lots of it, but all needed. I had some blood tests and even that needed lots of bits and pieces for it to be taken.

I could see why the NHS costs so much just in that one department. We can't afford to waste money on 'management', it's needed on the shop floor.
.
The NHS is always there for 'free' when you really need it but the whole model needs re-thinking.

The trouble is, it would be those very managers who would do the re-thinking and they are not going to talk themselves out of a job...

glad rag
20th May 2014, 21:55
What do you expect?

Put 'managers' into a situation and the first step is to cozy up to the overseeing authority and make sure that everything goes through them.

Then they establish nice new office suites and armies of assistants to show how busy and important they are.

Get it all arranged properly and they end up taking everything except responsibility.

Seen it happening too often.

So, so bloody true.

BigEndBob
20th May 2014, 22:42
Brother in law asked for a scan of his accident damaged hand, as it had been crushed several years earlier between two skips and in constant pain.
Doctor said it would be a month or so before it could be done NHS.
But next week if he paid for it, about 200.

On the day he parked in his allocated spot and the the department fired up for his scan, then closed down. Think it was MRI scan.
I thought a machine like this would be operating 24/7 to justify its high cost.
If i was desperate for a scan, i would be preparred to roll up at 2 in the morning.

Is the service deliberatly missmanaged so that it becomes an excuse to privatise?