near midair over pacific

[glendalegoon]

The deadliest aircraft collision that never happened: Writer gives terrifying account of near-miss in the air that could have killed 590 | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2628873/The-deadliest-aircraft-collision-EVER-happened-two-weeks-ago-Writer-gives-terrifying-account-near-miss-air-killed-590.html)

[DaveReidUK]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/05/15/article-2628873-1DDB48AE00000578-857_634x175.jpg

WTF is that supposed to "prove" ?

[500N]

To give the plebs something to look at and back up the story !!!

The sqiggle at 1.30 supposedly shows the crash dive !!!

[glendalegoon]

WOW a coffee pot was falling to the floor. How did they survive?

and a 600fpm descent. wow.

can any of you say: WAFDOF?


To me, it sounds like a controller gave the same altitude to two different planes and before some amateur reporter jumps up and down talking about east/west altitudes. IT DOES HAPPEN that controllers can and do give you (read clear you) for a Wrong Altitude/Flight Level (for) Direction of Flight.

AND YES, its wrong to give the same altitude to two different planes on a head on course.



Now, something happened here. CNN just reported that NTSB and FAA investigators are now enroute (w 20 days after the event) to HNL center to investigate.

And hey, the airline COMP'd inflight entertainment for the whole plane!


DEAR REPORTERS: If you had an FAA/NTSB report to go with this , it would be kind of interesting.

But you are obviously just playing on flying fears in the wake of MH370.

[glendalegoon]

what motivated the mods to move this from news to spectators corner? its in the news!

[Tarq57]

I rather suspect it was the linking of an item from the mailonline in the OP.

I mean, if I were running/modding the site, that's what I'd do with content from 'certain' sites.

That site should be isolated from a self-respecting computer, deep fried in rancid oil, and grimly consumed when an emetic is required.

[McGinty]

See https://medium.com/medium-long/c2f8d68a917c

[chevvron]

Returning from Istanbul on the flight deck of a BA 737, we spotted an AF 747 opposite direction which had checked in giving a level 2,000ft below us, but it looked to be above us. As we got closer, sure enough it seemed to descend and went underneath us, being registered on the radalt which was crabbed at 4,000ft.
Liked the bit about Liz Hurley; just shows what a twatt Hugh Grant really is.

[sunnySA]

more Americans are killed by vending machines than sharks every year
I didn't know that.
The author might like to consider that if the transponder fails then TCAS is no longer available. The aircraft becomes invisible to the system, just like MH370.

[glendalegoon]

first off I have no idea about some newspaper's reputation in another country

second off this was reported on cnn and interviewed the author

third, there is another thread just started in rumors and news about the same incident.

so, please merge the two.

[PENKO]

Now, if the pilot had not overreacted to the TCAS RA, pulling (or pushing?) negative G's, none of this would have been in the news!

[sooty655]

If the author's description of the severity of the manoeuvre is accurate and the seat belt sign was off, it seems strange that no-one (unbelted passenger or flight attendant) hit the ceiling.

Methinks there may be just a little exaggeration here.

[Tarq57]

first off I have no idea about some newspaper's reputation in another country

second off this was reported on cnn and interviewed the author

.......
Maybe, just maybe, you should'a linked to the CNN report rather than the mailonline.
They're a degree or two apart..one is a tabloid paper. (Guess which.)

[phiggsbroadband]

For those of us that fly without the aid of TCAS, the 'lookout and avoid' principle exists, whereby the plane on the right gives way to the right of any possible collision.


I have only had to do this once, in a glider, and found that put me in a further dangerous position.... The height of a level glider is about 5 ft to the tip of the tail. However whilst doing my turn to the right to avoid, tip of wing to tip of wing takes up about 50ft of airspace... So the other glider would have had to climb a further 25ft to avoid my wing-tip (Climb in a glider? Oh yeah!)


So the question is, do TCAS instructions rely upon each plane maintaining level flight, to avoid crossed wing problems, or is one plane sent in a climb to the right, whilst the other does an external bunt to the left.? (to keep both wings parallel)

[susier]

I don't suppose someone would be kind enough to link to the playback for those of us not subscribed to FR24?


That would be great. (If it's allowed obviously)

[PENKO]

Phiggs, if crossed wings become even a remote concern, then TCAS had truly and utterly failed. TCAS, as you can read anywhere on the net, is designed to warn far ahead of a potential collision. Up to half a minute to closest proximity for a 'descend' warning if my memory serves me right. Further more, TCAS does not instruct to turn. Just climbs and descents.

[meekmok]

Methinks there may be just a little exaggeration here.

Especially how everyone was "weightless" however the coffeepot somehow defied the weightlessness and crashed to the floor....

[PENKO]

Oh, but that's easily done. If the pilot pushes over the nose too enthousiastically then things will come loose and settle down wherever..

[glendalegoon]

agree TCAS gives climbs, descents or maintain vertical speed as a resolution, NOT turns.

only gets sticky when you descend into a mountain or climbs above max altitude (they do have things sorted out there).


Ideally the maneuver should be smooth enough to not be an exercise in the vomit comet maneuver and perhaps the UAL pilot was a bit too aggressive. (can you smell fear?)

I took and posted the FIRST link I found on the subject as CNN had not placed it upon their website as quickly as the tabloid. Excuse me.

two one four: regarding compass rule. ATC can and often does assign altitudes not in compliance with the compass rule. It is quite normal. There is even an abbreviation associated with it and I mentioned it in earlier post.

WAFDOF: Wrong Altitude/Flight Level (for) Direction of Flight.

Some pilots, like myself will readback the clearance: Flight 124 climb and maintain FL 330, confirm WAFDOF and ATC will verify it. Try it sometime when you are IFR.

[st7860]

United and US Airways Jets Nearly Collided in Midair, Reports Say - TIME (http://time.com/102487/midair-collision-hawaii-united-airlines-us-airways/)
Federal agencies are reportedly looking into what caused two passenger aircraft to nearly collide over Hawaii on April 25, with the FAA saying a United Airlines Boeing 757 took evasive action to avoid a U.S. Airways Boeing 757 about 200 miles northeast of Kona

[Harry O]

Anyone know what type of resources are out in the pacific if an incident did occur?
It looks like the FAA just lets them all get on with separation etc.
Made me wonder after seeing the Malaysian plane go missing.

[glendalegoon]

according to CBS evening news:


both planes were assigned FL330 by ATC

Both planes were in radar contact and CBS showed the radar tapes and the ATC audio was played.

closest point was 1 mile horizontal 800' vertical.

(slop?)

it is obviously an air traffic control error.

[RatherBeFlying]

Writeup from Passenger:

Soon after reaching our cruising altitude of 33,000 feet, the collision alert system sounded an alarm. Our plane was on an imminent path with a US Airways flight over the Pacific,

https://medium.com/medium-long/c2f8d68a917c

[glendalegoon]

investigation shows that both airliners were cleared at FL330 by ATC

both planes were in radar contact

the united plane descended , the USAIR plane climbed.

no closer than 1 mile
800'

ATC mistake

wondering if on airway and SLOP

[fox niner]

What an absolute :mad: story that is.

While I am sure that some TCAS event happened, I would just like to point out the following, which may help to be-bunk the whole story.
Halfway down the article, there is some sort of composite picture, with all sorts of aircraft superimposed, as if to illustrate various takeoff flightpaths.
The airport in the background is Hannover.
I fly for KLM on the 737 . And I will testify here, that KLM 737's never fly to Hannover, and never have. Nontheless, there is one sitting there in the middle of the picture!! (Old livery) also, further back, there is a KLM wide body, probably a 767 (check the bogey gear) and they never ever flew to Hanover either.
This sort of self-made sensationalist journalism really needs to be debunked bigtime.
What a bad, unprofessional, sensationalist cry-story.:{

[sabbasolo]

Risks Digest reports from here: https://medium.com/medium-long/c2f8d68a917c

about a near miss over the Pacific at FL330, which was saved by TCAS at the last moment. Interesting comments about why it doesn't appear to have been reported to the FAA until after it was in the press