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cabbages
11th May 2014, 20:38
Yet another nail biting climax to the Scottish premiership this year with Celtic edging Motherwell to the title by a mere 29 points. Not as close as last years Sweaty championship however which, against all odds was won by Celtic who pipped Motherwell by a wafer thin 16 points. And who can forget the dramatic 2012 photo finish when Celtic clinched the title by just 20 points.

It's no wonder Scottish sport is in such demand worldwide.

perthsaint
11th May 2014, 20:48
No - one cares about the league, the cup's where it's at. :ok:

TomJoad
11th May 2014, 21:46
Not a big follower of football but it brings a lot of entertainment and enjoyment to many here so can't be a bad thing. :ok:

Tankertrashnav
11th May 2014, 22:14
Isnt it about time Celtic and Rangers (in spite of their current artificial position) were invited to join the English Premier League, and then the also rans in Scotland can be left to fight it out among themselves?

500N
11th May 2014, 22:17
Tanker

I have also wondered why that has not occurred.

perthsaint
11th May 2014, 22:18
Please take them. Now.:ok:

Cpl Plod
11th May 2014, 22:32
We could take them into the English league.

But who is going to explain to the fans of Tamworth and Hyde FC that they're being dropped from the Conference to let the Jockistanis in? :E

muppetofthenorth
11th May 2014, 22:32
Isnt it about time Celtic and Rangers were invited to join the English Premier League
I have also wondered why that has not occurred.

Because if they did they'd barely scrape into the realms of mid-table mediocrity of the Championship, wouldn't get close to winning anything again for a very long time (losing lots of money), neither would ever get european football again (losing even more money) and they wouldn't be able to attract even moderately decent international players.

And anyway, Salmond wouldn't let them.

perthsaint
11th May 2014, 22:40
Salmond's a Hearts fan, I suspect he could be persuaded....:E

Andy_S
12th May 2014, 07:11
Isnt it about time Celtic and Rangers (in spite of their current artificial position) were invited to join the English Premier League, and then the also rans in Scotland can be left to fight it out among themselves?

The trouble is that doing so would set a precedent.

Once Celtic and Rangers were in, could we deny Hibs and Hearts? Closely followed by Aberdeen and Dundee United??

Akrotiri71
12th May 2014, 07:51
Celtic & Rangers would be, at present, Championship material at best. They would require a huge cash injection from some sugar-daddy in order to gain promotion, and be competitive in the English Premiership.

I believe the SPL would become semi-professional as a result of The Old Firm moving south. Much needed revenue is gleaned for other clubs when the Tims & Huns come to town.

I have been to watch Aberdeen play at Pittodrie a couple of times this year. It's like watching Sunday morning football down at the council pitches, entertaining but not very good.

Average attendances at Pittodrie in the 13/14 season has been +/- 13,000. (21,000 capacity). Motherwell, who finished second, had an average home attendance of 5,100!, (13,472 capacity).

Gordon17
12th May 2014, 08:51
The problem with that plan is where they would go when they were relegated, and who would replace them.

glad rag
12th May 2014, 08:58
No - one cares about the league, the cup's where it's at. :ok:

Aye so true indeed.

And it's heading tae Tannadice

:ok:

MagnusP
12th May 2014, 10:13
Bottom end of the SPL has been more interesting, and now that Kilmarnock have forced the Easter Road vermin into playoffs to avoid relegation, the championship could be a better league to watch next season. Rangers, Hearts, (possibly) Hibernian, Dunfermline, as opposed to the SPL which will feature Celtic and some other teams. :E

denachtenmai
12th May 2014, 10:31
Isnt it about time Celtic and Rangers were invited to join the English Premier League
Why would we allow "foreign" teams in the FA?
After September, according to quite a few posters from Jockistan, that is what they would be.:ooh:
Regards, Den.

Nervous SLF
12th May 2014, 10:46
Why would we allow "foreign" teams in the FA?
After September, according to quite a few posters from Jockistan, that is what they would be.:ooh:
Regards, Den.


Alas the English Football League has already let some foreign teams in (from Wales) :ugh:

Lon More
12th May 2014, 10:53
Come on the Pars! Two matches to go against the dreaded Blue Brazil.

MagnusP
12th May 2014, 10:54
denachtenmai, Berwick play in the Scottish leagues.

Alloa Akbar
12th May 2014, 13:40
Please take them. Now.

I can see why someone from Edinburgh would say that.. after all, you don't have any teams in the top flight now either do you?? :ok:

MagnusP
12th May 2014, 13:42
Alloa, the vermin haven't dropped yet; playoffs first.

B Fraser
12th May 2014, 16:00
Falkirk are in with a chance of going up :ok:

The SPL isn't known as "The Sunday Pub League" for nothing you know.

OutlawPete
12th May 2014, 19:11
Not a football fan but I went to a couple of SPL games recently as a guest and have to admit they were pretty entertaining. The Rangers thing has helped a lot of clubs financially with the additional gate receipts and to be fair, gate prices north of the border are still reasonably accessible for most, unlike the hallowed Premiership.

Surprised to see a thread with the word "Scottish" in its title...just don't mention the 'I' word.... :cool:

SET 18
12th May 2014, 19:19
Muppetofthenorth (appropriate name) I can't have that mate. Celtic qualified for the LAST 16 of the champions' league last year, beating Barcelona on the way. This year, they qualified for the Champions' league proper after two qualifying rounds.

Ok, they didn't reach the last 16, (just) and to compare them to mid-table Championship mediocrity is ridiculous. Really. Makes you look a bit dim.

Worldwide, they are MUCH bigger than the vast majority of EPL clubs who are feeding off the popularity of the few other, bigger clubs. Where to start: Crystal Palace, Southampton, West Ham, about ten more, even your champions Man City! In fact, yours is such a ridiculous assertion that I really haven't time to refute it fully. Get a grip.:=

TomJoad
12th May 2014, 19:58
Not a football fan but I went to a couple of SPL games recently as a guest and have to admit they were pretty entertaining. The Rangers thing has helped a lot of clubs financially with the additional gate receipts and to be fair, gate prices north of the border are still reasonably accessible for most, unlike the hallowed Premiership.

Surprised to see a thread with the word "Scottish" in its title...just don't mention the 'I' word.... :cool:

Likewise OutlawPete, I'm not a big fan of the beautiful game but hey if it brings enjoyment to folk then long may it continue, it seams to be doing just fine. I don't hear any call from football fans in Scotland to join the English game. I say Yes, let it stay independent. :E

Nervous SLF
12th May 2014, 22:25
Worldwide, they are MUCH bigger than the vast majority of EPL clubs who are feeding off the popularity of the few other, bigger clubs. Where to start: Crystal Palace, Southampton, West Ham, about ten more, even your champions Man City! In fact, yours is such a ridiculous assertion that I really haven't time to refute it fully. Get a grip.:=

Excuse me for mentioning this but Southampton have 3 players in the England squad and would have had 4 if
J.Rod had not injured himself. They also have 1 Japanese in Japans squad and could also have 2 more in other squads.
Southampton were also one of the founder members of the P.L. so perhaps you might like to take your own advice ? :*

muppetofthenorth
12th May 2014, 23:31
Ok, they didn't reach the last 16, (just) and to compare them to mid-table Championship mediocrity is ridiculous. Really.

They can rise up for one off cup games because they have no competition in their own league.

Are you really denying that Celtic could put out an entire B team and still walk to the SPL title? That freedom allows them the chance, on occasion, to stumble through a european cup competition and give the illusion of grandeur.

Maybe mid-table Championship is slightly too harsh, but let's not even begin to pretend they'd win anything, nor ever qualify for Europe, if in the EPL.

This year, they qualified for the Champions' league proper after two qualifying rounds.

Exactly! After 2 qualifying rounds. Their league isn't remotely valued so even when they win it by a canter they have to qualify to get into the CL.

And, by the way, having a big worldwide fan base means precisely nothing. The fact you have to cling to that as a thing to be proud of shows how little quality the team actually has!

perthsaint
13th May 2014, 06:13
To be fair to Celtic we need to acknowledge their achievement of being knocked out of the League Cup, at home, to a part - time team who subsequently went on to lose 10 goals in a league match.

Take a bow :D

B Fraser
13th May 2014, 06:34
They also have 1 Japanese in Japans squad and could also have 2 more in other squads.

Even Falkirk can boast that with Russell Latapy, they had a player in the 2006 World Cup squad. Trinidad And Tobago are right up there with the mighty Japan.

It's a pity that shouting "Up The Bairns" can land you in a lot of trouble these days. Hamilton Accies could also go up but their name is rhyming slang for an element of the population that own a lot of corner shops so you can't shout about them either.

The world's gone mad.

SET 18
13th May 2014, 07:30
SLF, if you could find an independent football expert or fan who could honestly tell you that he agrees with you that Southampton are a bigger club than Celtic then I would be astonished. He would also be one in a huge amount who would disagree with him. Can't see how that fact makes me a numpty.

Btw, Celtic also have a member in the England World Cup squad. Not that that fact makes Celtic a bigger club.

Muppet, the size or difficulty or otherwise of the league that Celtic play in has very little to do with the size of the club. I suspect you must also know this. Your arguments are non-existent.

Alloa Akbar
13th May 2014, 08:04
If you take a look a look at a club by its support - Home attendances, European honours and domestic dominance, Its hard to argue against Rangers and Celtic being bigger than the bottom half of the premier league.

Celtic - Average Home attendance 2013 - 14 47,000
45 League Titles, 36 Scottish FA Cups, 1 European Cup 1967 and UEFA Cup Runners Up 2003.

Rangers - Average Home Attendance 2013-14 - 42,000, 54 League Titles, 27 Scottish Cups, 1 European Fairs Cup and UEFA Finalists 2008

So, Manchester United and Liverpool aside, how many English top tier clubs can boast that record, that support and that global following???

Nuff said.

Andy_S
13th May 2014, 08:10
If you take a look a look at a club by its support - Home attendances, European honours and domestic dominance, Its hard to argue against Rangers and Celtic being bigger than the bottom half of the premier league.

You've also got to consider that if they were in the EPL then they'd have access to EPL wealth. Together with those sort of crowds, there's no reason why Celtic or Rangers shouldn't be able to compete in the top half of the EPL.

The fact remains, though, that they are scottish teams, so not eligible. End of.

Cyber Bob
13th May 2014, 08:36
Pub football - end of

muppetofthenorth
13th May 2014, 09:32
the size or difficulty or otherwise of the league that Celtic play in has very little to do with the size of the club.

I'm well aware.

But I also know that the 'size of a club' has sod all to do with how good it is. As evidenced by Celtic and Rangers. Being a big club historically has nothing to do with current stature. Look at Nottingham Forest. A club with great history, currently nowhere. Look at Leeds.

So what if they're 'big'? They'd still get horrendously shown up if in the EPL and you've done nothing - nor said anything - to refute that.

Alloa Akbar
13th May 2014, 13:09
So what if they're 'big'? They'd still get horrendously shown up if in the EPL and you've done nothing - nor said anything - to refute that

Thats your opinion, facts would suggest otherwise, the Scottish Champions have proved that they can compete directly with the English Champions time and again.. I'm not saying they win, but whether the Scottish Champions win the head to head or the English Champions win, its never a thrashing either way.

Andy S hit the nail on the head, with a share of the wealth in the EPL then of course Celtic and Rangers would compete, however, for a huge number of reasons, it will never happen.

Alloa Akbar
13th May 2014, 13:20
Perhaps one serious issue overlooked by some of the overtly arrogant sections of EPL supporters is that of the national team.. Despite very obvious lessons served up by the Italian Serie A and the Scottish Premier league, English football remains dominated by foreign players, in my view much to detriment of the national team. Crazy spending on foreign imports nearly bankrupted the Italian league and the national side are hardly a world force these days, and by the same token, foreign players killed the Scottish game.. notably led by Rangers and Celtic, with a bit of help from the others.

So, the England World Cup squad 2014.. bright talents for the future or a bunch of mediocre kids, selected in desperation and guarranteed to be on the first flight home..??

muppetofthenorth
13th May 2014, 13:23
the Scottish Champions have proved that they can compete directly with the English Champions time and again

During those once-in-a-blue-moon occasions they bump into a team during the CL? Hardly a cast iron indicator.

Put them into a league format with all the considerations that come with that an they simply won't compete on the same level. They'd be the clubs who'd consider a run to the FA or League Cup Quarter finals as a result and hoping that they may squeeze into the Europa League spot.

And I don't believe the tv wealth would be enough to turn them around, either, not with the (admittedly obscene) amount of money that's around in the game today. Unless they've got benefactors pouring 100s of millions in, they won't compete with the top 6 or 7.

Alloa Akbar
13th May 2014, 13:30
Hardly a cast iron indicator

But it is hard facts.. What are your facts to support

Put them into a league format with all the considerations that come with that an they simply won't compete on the same level

??

SET 18
13th May 2014, 14:09
Mmm...Nottingham Forest, not really a big club. At all. A provincial club with a glorious history. My nephew is playing in their academy so I know just a little about their present set-up. Leeds- a huge club in Leeds or maybe Yorkshire. Also a great history but no real worldwide fan base.

I reckon that those green-eyed Europeans will do as much as they can in the near future to covet the wealth of the EPL. They are not likely to sit there and watch English football grow at their own expense. Platini is not exactly an Anglophile!

Should their idea be an expansion of the Champions' league to include Europe's major clubs for a full season i.e. A European league, then you can bet your bottom dollar that 'worldwide support and fan base' will matter. The future wealth of football clubs will largely (exclusively) be dependent on TV revenue. I wouldn't be overly confident that Southampton for example, will be invited. A team that can presently attract massive home gates and TV audiences around the world (even though they are only playing Kilmarnock!) may very much be a part of their plans. The remaining EPL clubs will then be left with a very different product should the big six or seven go.

I wouldn't under estimate UEFA's envy of England's wealth or be complacent about it. Disgraceful of course and typical of their small-mindedness. Not to say this will definitely happen, but I think I will hang on to my team's massive support and debt-free existence all the same.

Lon More
13th May 2014, 15:15
foreign players killed the Scottish game..
I remember the furore when a Weegie was signed up by Lochgelly Violet

The future wealth of football clubs will largely (exclusively) be dependent on TV revenue
As long as Bernie Ecclestone doesn't get involved

Alloa Akbar
13th May 2014, 16:30
Lon,

and of course Rangers two most controversial signings.. Mo Johnston the Catholic and Sandy Jardine (RIP) from Edinburgh!! :p

perthsaint
13th May 2014, 17:04
Rangers died.

I laughed.:cool:

Lon More
13th May 2014, 17:21
Billy Connolly - Football Violence - YouTube

Alloa Akbar
14th May 2014, 10:45
Rangers died.

I laughed.

Scottish football, let by men as small minded as you killed itself that day too, thus the opening post.

When Rangers and Celtic dominated Scottish Football, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United all raised their game, challenged and won their own domestic and European honours in the process, Scotland qualified for major tournaments too.

Now that men like you have changed the landscape forever, what do we have?

Celtic with a stadium they can't fill, competing in Europe but out of their depth. Runners up such as Motherwell get smashed so badly it wasnt worth the air fares. No big money TV deals for Scottish football, and no participation in major tournaments.. In short, Scottish football has become irrelevant through the loss of one club. By all means continue to proclaim your support for your small and insignificant clubs (Do you have a season ticket?) but accept your league, its participants and the outcomes are now irrelevant, and of interest to no one in the larger footballing world.

No interest, no competition, no investment.. I wonder how that will work out for the men like Doncaster and Reagan..

perthsaint
14th May 2014, 11:02
I'm going to watch my club in the Scottish Cup Final on Saturday.

You?

Alloa Akbar
14th May 2014, 12:16
Cant wait to see the attendance for that one.. Is it on BBC Alba?

Nick Riviera
14th May 2014, 12:44
So, Manchester United and Liverpool aside, how many English top tier clubs can boast that record, that support and that global following???

Arsenal, for starters.

Alloa Akbar
14th May 2014, 13:10
Nick,

you can have arsenal, so out of 19 teams in the EPL, so far we have a list of 3 serial winners.. Man city and Chelsea etc don't count as they are currently doing well through investment but cannot boast serious amounts of league titles, cups or European victories.. Yes I know Chelsea won the Champions league, but they lose out on high volume domestic honours..

Nick Riviera
14th May 2014, 14:13
But that's the whole point. The English top division doesn't have a list of serial title winners because the competition has traditionally been stronger and shared out among a greater number of clubs. The Scottish top division has traditionally been a two club competition so having 50 titles is a little devalued in comparison.

Alloa Akbar
14th May 2014, 14:28
One might argue that Liverpool, United and Arsenal accounting for circa 53 titles between them is elitist dominance??

I wasn't arguing the merits of numbers of titles, merely offering evidence to refute opinion of another poster.

glad rag
17th May 2014, 16:40
Aye so true indeed.

And it's heading tae Tannadice

:ok:

Or NOT!

Well done to the Saints. A real cup final. :D :D

Their team spirit showed through when it counted, they were really up for it.

We were unlucky with twa hits on the woodwork, but you make your own luck as they say & I have to say the best team, on the day, won.

:D

noo fae a bevvy....

gr

glad rag
17th May 2014, 17:14
Billy Connolly - Football Violence - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JjVg0Sbsh4)

br7lTManlx0

perthsaint
18th May 2014, 00:13
Thanks, glad rag, very decent and dignified of you.:D

TomJoad
18th May 2014, 21:24
Yet another nail biting climax to the Scottish premiership this year with Celtic edging Motherwell to the title by a mere 29 points. Not as close as last years Sweaty championship however which, against all odds was won by Celtic who pipped Motherwell by a wafer thin 16 points. And who can forget the dramatic 2012 photo finish when Celtic clinched the title by just 20 points.

It's no wonder Scottish sport is in such demand worldwide.

Ahw well back to the OP - seams like a lot of folk are happy to derive a great deal of enjoyment out of following it. Guess they don't give a rat's ar%e about what the worldwide demand(why ever should they). Got to be a good thing.:ok:

BBC News - Open top bus parade for Scottish Cup winners St Johnstone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-27457510)

Alloa Akbar
19th May 2014, 08:47
I'll get in here before PerthSaint comes rubbing my Blue nose in it..

Great looking atmosphere from what I saw, exciting game, and big congratulations to St Johnstone, superb. :D



PS- Bit of Trivia.. What have St Johnstone got that no other Cup Winner or English or Scottish league club have??

Gordon17
19th May 2014, 09:01
PS- Bit of Trivia.. What have St Johnstone got that no other Cup Winner or English or Scottish league club have??

Is it the letter "J" in their name?

Alloa Akbar
19th May 2014, 09:04
Good spot Gordon :ok:

charliegolf
19th May 2014, 09:56
Thrilling Scottish football

Now there's a thread title I never saw coming! Bit like the, 'Scottish Book of Top Goalkeeping' being on the best seller's list!:ok:

CG

Yeah, Cardiff sunk without trace, I know, I know.

OutlawPete
19th May 2014, 11:07
Yet another nail biting climax to the Scottish premiership this year with Celtic edging Motherwell to the title by a mere 29 points. Not as close as last years Sweaty championship however which, against all odds was won by Celtic who pipped Motherwell by a wafer thin 16 points. And who can forget the dramatic 2012 photo finish when Celtic clinched the title by just 20 points.

It's no wonder Scottish sport is in such demand worldwide.

Ahw well back to the OP - seams like a lot of folk are happy to derive a great deal of enjoyment out of following it. Guess they don't give a rat's ar%e about what the worldwide demand(why ever should they). Got to be a good thing.:ok:

BBC News - Open top bus parade for Scottish Cup winners St Johnstone (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-27457510)

The irony of the OP is that it was indeed a very entertaining final ( I thought, anyway).

A cynic may suspect the original comments are only using football as a medium to convey the existence of a particularly large chip on shoulder. Probably see a few other threads started or comments of that nature here until mid Sept. .. :p

matkat
19th May 2014, 12:10
I was also at the game totally gutted but the best team one no doubt about that, I was with the official party and not one of us would disagree on who was the better team, enjoy your year in the sunshine on Saturday you deserved it.

JFZ90
19th May 2014, 20:45
Scottish football, let by men as small minded as you killed itself that day too, thus the opening post.

When Rangers and Celtic dominated Scottish Football, Aberdeen, Hearts, Hibs and Dundee United all raised their game, challenged and won their own domestic and European honours in the process, Scotland qualified for major tournaments too.

Now that men like you have changed the landscape forever, what do we have?

Celtic with a stadium they can't fill, competing in Europe but out of their depth. Runners up such as Motherwell get smashed so badly it wasnt worth the air fares. No big money TV deals for Scottish football, and no participation in major tournaments.. In short, Scottish football has become irrelevant through the loss of one club. By all means continue to proclaim your support for your small and insignificant clubs (Do you have a season ticket?) but accept your league, its participants and the outcomes are now irrelevant, and of interest to no one in the larger footballing world.

No interest, no competition, no investment.. I wonder how that will work out for the men like Doncaster and Reagan..

Interesting analysis......is it a premonition for a (whisper it) i-Scotland?

You make a good case for a football union.

TomJoad
19th May 2014, 22:16
I was also at the game totally gutted but the best team one no doubt about that, I was with the official party and not one of us would disagree on who was the better team, enjoy your year in the sunshine on Saturday you deserved it.



Not a football fan matkat but I was in Perth during the parade and what an atmosphere, really friendly and lots of very happy people. A good day was had, and good to see football providing a positive story rather than the usual negative for small minded bigots. I think both sides, players and supporters did us all proud.

Alloa Akbar
20th May 2014, 09:06
usual negative for small minded bigots

Ah the (religious?) bigotry card.. One of the positives to come out of the demise of Rangers - The main forum for all that religious shite (the Old Firm) was wiped out instantly. :ok:

TomJoad
20th May 2014, 17:43
Alloa,

Wasn't necessarily thinking about religious bigotry - it come in various flavours! Like I said it was a truly family friendly atmosphere in Perth much in contrast to the OPs claim. Never been a football fan but it brings a great deal of enjoyment to honest decent folk so long may it be.

Tom