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View Full Version : First tornadoes, now bushfires; You ok Con Pilot?


Pinky the pilot
5th May 2014, 11:49
The ABC TV News here in South Australia this evening showed some fairly large bushfires (wildfires in the US) around Oklahoma City. Didn't say exactly where but did make me somewhat concerned.

You ok Con-Pilot?

Cacophonix
5th May 2014, 11:52
Earthquakes too...!

Oklahoma rattled by an uptick in earthquakes (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/04/12/earthquake-oklahoma/7649531/)

And to think I thought Oklahoma was a rather flat, hot and boring place... ;)

Oklahoma! - YouTube

Caco

eastern wiseguy
5th May 2014, 12:11
It seems to me that IF there is a god.......she is totally pissed off with Oklahoma.

What the hell have you lot done to deserve it? :ok:

500N
5th May 2014, 12:15
" And to think I thought Oklahoma was a rather flat, hot and boring place... ;)"


That makes two of us !

Cacophonix
5th May 2014, 12:54
Despite the recent deadly outbreak the US is having a significantly quiet tornado year and no more so than Oklahoma...

The cold temperatures also meant Oklahoma finally got relief from its string of deadly tornadoes, with a tornado-free streak from Aug. 7, 2013, through April 13, 2014. The Norman, Okla., NWS office set a new record for its longest tornado-warning-free stretch on April 13, at 316 days. The previous streak was 293 days, set in 1991.

Slowest Start to Tornado Season in a Century | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/45044-2014-slow-tornado-season-start.html)

Caco

pigboat
5th May 2014, 13:07
So far there has been no shower of locusts or rains of blood. We're expecting that to happen when con pilot votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016. :p

VFD
5th May 2014, 15:19
The fire was started from a "controlled burn"


95F/35C temps
30mph winds with higher gusts
Dry conditions with <10% humidity


I can not think of anything that could have gone wrong.


Not sure how you fix stupidity


VFD

racedo
5th May 2014, 15:22
Con has got a cold.......

Cacophonix
5th May 2014, 15:22
Dry conditions with <10% humidity

Hence no tornadoes...

Caco

con-pilot
5th May 2014, 16:22
We were a long way from the fire, but we do have some freinds that live close to where the fires were, but the fires were upwind from them and they were not affected.

As for the big, F-3 and above, tornadoes some years we have a lot of them, some years we don't.

But my record of never seeing a tornado on the ground in the 51 years of living in Oklahoma still stands. :p

Dushan
5th May 2014, 18:29
So far there has been no shower of locusts or rains of blood. We're expecting that to happen when con pilot votes for Hillary Clinton in 2016. :p

Slightly off threadÖ apologies.

We are in the mids of a provincially called election. Pollsters are calling every hour. One called me and asked me who I would vote for?
"Conservative", says I.
"If you didn't vote Conservative, which of the following would you vote for...?"
"I would rather stick a needle in my eye than vote Liberal or NDP" says I.
Cue deadly silence.

It was funny.

G-CPTN
5th May 2014, 18:52
I thought that voting was by secret ballot?

What right have pollsters to enquire?

Rossian
5th May 2014, 19:14
.......in answer to your question - none. But, or, however comma you don't have to answer OR you can lie. I'd go for the latter option myself.

The Ancient Mariner

Windy Militant
5th May 2014, 19:21
Hope the folks in Oklahoma are OK. There was a spate of brush and grassland fire in Wales whilst I was home at Easter not as bad as the ones stateside but according to the Fire brigade they were deliberately set. What I'd like to know, is after the wettest winter in god knows when, how did they get the infernal things to light :confused:

Pinky the pilot
6th May 2014, 08:06
Good to hear you are unscathed yet again con-pilot! Like others I never knew Oklahoma could be such an 'adventurous' place.

But my record of never seeing a tornado on the ground in the 51 years of living in Oklahoma still stands

Struth! :cool: Now a serious question; Just how common are tornadoes in that area? IE; yearly averages, localities most often affected etc.

Lord Spandex Masher
6th May 2014, 10:07
but the fires were upwind from them and they were not affected.

Dunno about you but I'd rather be upwind of the fires!

con-pilot
6th May 2014, 17:28
The worse thing that Oklahoma has when it comes to these wildfires are cedar trees. During dry spells, a single spark, carried by the wind, can cause a cedar tree to literally explode, sending more sparks/burning embers into the wind, to be carried to more cedar trees.

Aerial observation is vital when fighting these fires, as there is no telling where another outbreak of fire will happen caused by these exploding cedar trees, due to sparks and burning embers carried by the wind.

More than a few time fire crews have nearly been trapped, but for warnings from the observation aircraft, both fixed wing and helicopter. Yesterday a CL-44 water bomber arrived from Canada to assist in fighting these fires. The National Guard's helicopters are doing a hell of job fighting these fires, but they are stretched to the limit and needed additional help. Therefore the Governor used special use tax funds to pay for the CL-44.

We're forecast to have heavy rain starting Thursday, so if the forecast is correct, this will put out all the wildfires.

But as bad as it is, these fires can in no way compare to the fires in Australia.


And quite right LSM, I should have said downwind.


On a personal note, on my sonís land he has removed all of the cedar trees on his property, has clear cut a large area around the house he is building and all of the out buildings. But just in case, he bought an old tanker truck and has it filled with water, with a spray nozzle on the back of the tank, which will allow him to soak the grass around his buildings.

airship
6th May 2014, 18:00
But of course, con-pilot, just like James Bond, almost always escapes unscathed?!

I reckon it was even con-pilot who piloted the small executive jet with 4 rear-mounted engines in the James Bond movie "Goldfinger" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058150/)...?! I believe that he once held a suitable "type-rating" for this aircraft...?! :ok:

con-pilot
6th May 2014, 18:14
the small executive jet with 4 rear-mounted engines

It's the Lockheed Jetstar that you are referring to and yes I flew one for a couple of years. One of, if not, the best flying aircraft I have ever flown. But not the series flown in the movie, the one I flew was a 731 Jetstar, the 731 indicating the newer, more modern and more powerful engine modification.

But I wish I'd flown the one in the movie, all those women in the film. :(


By the way, it was a Lockheed demonstration crew that flew the Jetstar in the Bond movie. Lucky arseholes. :E

airship
6th May 2014, 18:23
I'm very sorry to learn that you were not piloting any Jetstars during the original filming. Hence did not / were not able to "become better acquainted with" either Ms. Honor Blackman or Ms. Tania Mallet... :{ :ok:

Cacophonix
6th May 2014, 19:02
All this talk of wild fires made me wonder whether the mighty Martin Mars still operates in Canada or the US?

Martin JRM Mars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_JRM_Mars)

Caco

http://wildfiretoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Martin_Mars_wing.jpg

Newforest2
7th May 2014, 06:41
No. :(

Martin Mars water bomber grounded after 53 years in B.C. - Times Colonist (http://www.timescolonist.com/martin-mars-water-bomber-grounded-after-53-years-in-b-c-1.624458)

Cacophonix
7th May 2014, 07:15
That's a pity Newforest2. I guess the cost of keeping the aircraft airworthy is just too prohibitive.

Interesting to see how they used a helicopter with infrared facilities to lead the big beast in for a water bombing run.

Caco

pigboat
7th May 2014, 12:21
I guess the cost of keeping the aircraft airworthy is just to prohibitive.

That's one reason, but maybe not the primary one. The BC Government, in its wisdom, decided that a fleet of smaller more mobile aircraft would be better able to combat a fire in its initial stage when it's easier to beat down. They may have a point, but the accountants have forgotten that one Mars can save enough timber in one afternoon to pay its operating cost for a year.

MX Trainer
7th May 2014, 14:16
Con-Pilot

I hope we haven't sent the CL 44 - not to sure if we have any airworthy ones left!! One seriously great airplane in its' day!!

Canadair CL-44 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-44)

But the CL 415 would probably be a better choice!!


Bombardier 415 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_415)

In any case - Glad to hear that all is well with you!!

Mx

con-pilot
7th May 2014, 16:17
Con-Pilot

I hope we haven't sent the CL 44 - not to sure if we have any airworthy ones left!! One seriously great airplane in its' day!!

Canadair CL-44 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the CL 415 would probably be a better choice!!


Bombardier 415 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In any case - Glad to hear that all is well with you!!

Mx

Thank you, my mistake, I just saw a quick photo of the aircraft on the news, and in my old mind, got the name of the aircraft wrong.

It is a 415.

Thanks again. :ok:

Gordy
7th May 2014, 16:51
As one who does this for a living, currently sitting on fire contract in Cloquet, Minnesota with MN DNR, I can say that they would not have intentionally lit the fire if they thought it would escape. Sometimes it does happen....

Prescribed fire, (or controlled burns as most know them as), need to be lit to undo the many years of suppressing every wild fire. We are playing catch up in the US trying to burn the dead and down under story that has accumulated over the last 100 years. In order to get it burnt, we must have favorable conditions for fire otherwise we are wasting our time.... it is a fine line. Some parts of the US are more open to us setting fires than others. I know in California I have only set three fires for a total of about 5,000 acres in the last 7 years, and yet in Missouri I set an average of 40,000 acres per year. Typically we show up and are handed the "prescription" which states the conditions under which we are allowed to light it, and the overall objectives of the fire. We can control the intensity and heat index of the fire by utilizing the aircraft and various ground units.

Here is a video of what Con-Pilot speaks----with air attack, and the tankers etc:

IBJvQNdJqcY

And for those who are interested, here is a couple of videos of me setting a "prescribed fire" with the heli-torch in Idaho:

B359-jTq-24 I3cMabmUOf4

con-pilot
7th May 2014, 17:26
Thanks Gordy. :ok:

By the way, I've been meaning to ask you this, but havenít had the chance until now.

Back in my Marshal days, 1988-1998, we ended up with more Sabre 80s than we had pilots for, we were always short of pilots back then, and one of our 80s was given to the Forestry Service.

Because of lack of recent jet experience of the Forestry Service pilots they requested that one of the Marshal pilots fly with their Chief Pilot and Deputy Chief Pilot in one of our Sabre 80s before they went to Flight Safety for their type ratings.

As usual I was on our chief pilots sh!t list, for doing something I thought was funny, but he didn't, I was stuck in the office, the worse punishment ever, when this happened. So I jumped up and volunteered, anything to get out of the office.

I flew with these guys, very sorry I cannot remember their names, for a week. They were fun guys and good pilots. At the end of the week the chief pilot promised me that I could fly one of the OV-1s or 2s, can't remember which they had now.

So my question or questions are, what ever happened to the Sabre 80 and do you guys still have the OVs?

Gordy
7th May 2014, 17:48
I have no clue what happened to the aircraft. I know Cal-Fire still uses OV-10's, and Huey's that are owned by USFS. The USFS uses a bunch of king airs, cessna, piper, DC-3's, beavers, and I think there is a citation for the night time infra-red flights. I do know that once taken out of commission they have to be scrapped.

Here is a list of all the aircraft registered to the USFS:

See Here (http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/Name_Results.aspx?Nametxt=USDA%20FOREST%20SERVICE&sort_option=1&PageNo=1)

con-pilot
7th May 2014, 18:01
Thanks for the list Gordy. :ok:

They still have the Saber 80, N774W, found it on page six. Don't know if they are still flying it. Never got to fly one of the OV-10s. :(

Solid Rust Twotter
7th May 2014, 18:53
One would part with major organs to fly an OV-10.

Cacophonix
7th May 2014, 19:52
One would part with major organs to fly an OV-10.

A certain Belgain pilot nearly did while aerobating one a couple of years ago. Good to hear he is well on the mend and his survival in many ways due to the toughness of the OV-10...

Bronco Demo Team OV-10 - YouTube

Caco

Solid Rust Twotter
8th May 2014, 04:12
Shazbat! Can't see that. Heavily censored server kind of thing....:suspect:

500N
8th May 2014, 04:19
Gordy

"And for those who are interested, here is a couple of videos of me setting a "prescribed fire" with the heli-torch in Idaho:"

Very interesting.


What are you dropping to get such a nice even spread / line of fire ?

Gordy
8th May 2014, 05:24
500N

What are you dropping to get such a nice even spread / line of fire ?

The old days of the powder mix are gone....this is a 50/50 mix of diesel and gasoline mixed with a product called "Flash 21".

See here (http://www.phos-chek.com.au/sites/default/files/Flash%2021%20Data%20Sheet%20_%20Phos-Chek%20Australia.pdf)

It is basically a gelling agent that works really well. In the past, we would have to mix 2 or 3 barrels separately and let them sit for 30 minutes to "gel up"...not so with Flash 21....it gels in about 3-4 minutes so we only use one mix barrel and pump directly into the torch barrel saving lots of time and risk exposure. It gets pumped out of the nozzle and ignited as it drops....

In reality---it is modern napalm...... I have to say....it is the biggest rush one can ever have.....setting fire to 10,000 acres of forest at a time.... (Obviously do not try this at home etc.......)

500N
8th May 2014, 05:27
Thanks - interesting.

'Only ever set fires up North Aus, once on a flood plain because the Aboriginal
was going to do it so it just meant 4 of use lit fires at the same time in a line.

The other time was in the scrub up north on a farm, the bloke lights
fires at the end of the wet season as soon as it is partially dry to burn
off the grass etc before it gets too dry and turns into a raging fire late
in the dry season.

Gordy
8th May 2014, 05:48
It can be a lot of fun......

Having said that it is extremely rewarding. Once you understand fire and can read the fuel types, topography, weather and fire intensity---you can control the rate rate of spread, intensity, speed and even stop it..... Obviously there is a limit to what we can control, and occasionally there will be a weather shift and there is nothing one can do to stop the escape.

It is an art form performed by a team.....and is truly magical to be a part of.

pigboat
8th May 2014, 12:26
Great little vids Gordy. That stuff ain't something you'd use to burn the backyard leaves. :ooh:

Con check out Patty Wagstaff's page on FB. She flies the OV-10 for Cal-Fire during the season.

angels
8th May 2014, 13:30
connie - That's really funny that you've never seen a tornado!

pigboat
8th May 2014, 14:53
My favourite Mars pic. :ok:

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/Siddley-Hawker/untitled_zps37821db9.png

500N
8th May 2014, 14:58
I agree, I really liked that when I saw it in a link the other day.

India Four Two
10th May 2014, 08:39
My favourite Mars pic. :ok:

pigboat,

Great! A definite candidate for the caption competition.

Cacophonix
10th May 2014, 09:23
The Mars airframe must be (was) extremely rugged given the pounding water operations and scooping must impose on it and not one Mars lost to fatigue or cracking to my knowledge...

Martin Mars Water Bomber to be Retired? - YouTube

I remember reading that fully laden the Mars needed +- 3 miles to get airborne... !

Well worth a read...

http://www.martinmars.com/pdf/martin_mars_brochure.pdf

http://www.ruudleeuw.com/pdf/martin_mars-by-septer.pdf

Caco

Cacophonix
10th May 2014, 09:58
Two other big beasts of the water bombing world...

The Evergreen 747...

Evergreen International Boeing 747 super tanker firefighting - YouTube

and the Russian IL76...

http://images.theage.com.au/2009/10/20/802298/Ilyushin-420x0.jpg

Caco