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View Full Version : In Uk 2014: the government frowns on people fighting for wht they believe in...


airship
4th May 2014, 03:03
Ignore for a moment that just a few months ago (until parliament basically said "No" to David Cameron's initiative to intervene in Syria), so we didn't...

We now have a huge operation conducted by David Cameron's government and the intelligence agencies to both identify Britons who've decided to go and fight in Syria nevertheless, yet face arrest and being accused of various crimes should they ever return to the UK...?!

I do and can understand the legitimate worries of any government. But in the aftermath of WWII, we had several 100s of thousands of ex. servicemen, most of whom were perfectly adept at manipulating explosives etc.

Just before WWII, many people of various nationalities, volunteered to fight in the Spanish civil war. And against the Nazis who supported one side there. Did they ever face any recriminations when returning to their native Canada, USA, the UK etc.?

Al Stewart - On the Border (live) - YouTube

What strikes me about the actions of our governments these days (at least the UK one), is that the UK were "gung-ho" for intervening in Syria a few months ago. That hasn't stopped many from the UK going over there "voluntarily". Yet, we're given the impression by the government that all such activity should be considered as highly suspicious etc...?!

I wonder how many of the Canadians, Brits etc. who "volunteered" to fight in the Spanish civil war were similarly mal-considered?! That the UK government has embarked on this strategy doesn't surprise me in the least. The country is run by imbeciles whose sole recourse to appear seemingly viable compels them to placate the UKIP and others. Completely forgetting their own responsibilities before the general public and the Crown (whose patience with their elected governments never ceases to amaze me).

I believe that both the Crown and the current government have "lost it". They continue as if nothing was amiss. Believing (or at least hoping) that the general public remain completely ignorant:

Nostradamus - Al Stewart - YouTube

Perhaps they'll have once again recourse to the "young 'uns" here in UK and elsewhere. Send them to fight over Ukraine, instead of Syria. No more battles before 10am if you please, gentlemen...?!

Mac the Knife
4th May 2014, 05:15
Yes, many foreigners left their homes to fight in the Spanish Civil War (including my father) - some for the Government and some for the Republic.

Widely billed as the "last romantic war" it was anything but. A confused piece of dreadful butchery used by the Russians and the Germans as a prequel for WW2. A mess of right and left political parties whose farcical acronyms (POUM anyone?) were only exceeded by their propensity for fighting each other. Rape, priest-murder, summary executions, torture, civilian slaughter and confused combat. Bit like Syria really.

It was a long time ago and as different from Syria as the Boer War was for the hundreds of young European (mostly Russian) idealists who travelled the 8547 miles from Moscow to Bloenfontein to fight the British oppressors all those years ago*.

Mac

*one was even promoted to Veggeneraal (Fighting General) which suggests that even then we know the difference between real generals and staff officers.

cattletruck
4th May 2014, 05:34
Cameron isn't frowning on those fighting for gay rights, marriage redefinition, sex reclassification, etc, etc.

Reckon you're all gonna be buggered soon.

bcgallacher
4th May 2014, 08:23
The problem is that the individual who goes to Syria to support a radical islamic group will return to the UK - if he survives - probably even more fanatical and will pose a threat to our society. I do not think that any sensible person will deny that radical islam is a clear threat to our way of life.I have spent many years in islamic countries both extreme and benign and am under no illusion that with large sums of money available to extreme organisations we in the west could have major problems in the future.

Mac the Knife
4th May 2014, 13:05
Many people who returned from the Spanish War (on both sides) were deeply disillusioned by the lies, political posturing and stupid slaughter.

It didn't make any difference to WWII though (second round of WWI).

Mac

Most of the people I know who came back from Vietnam, Africa, the Border, the Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq found it very hard to adjust. Many (except perhaps the Falkland guys) came home feeling that they had been suckered.

Many of the Islamic volunteers are likely to feel a little disillusioned too - it may give them a better appreciation of where they started from and what they got into (and again, it may make them even batshit crazier!).

:suspect:

One of my surgeon students went over to Libya to clear out Ghadaffi - he was happy to have done what he did, but the things that he saw from both sides left him deeply ambivalent about the uses of patriotism and his religion.