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superq7
1st May 2014, 12:49
Subway have decided to have some shops only serving Halal meats, see link.

Subway removes pork from stores after 'strong demand' from Muslims | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616576/Subway-removes-ham-pork-nearly-200-stores-strong-demand-Muslims-eat-Halal-meat.html)

PTT
1st May 2014, 12:52
Market forces at work.

Given that the only thing I ever buy from there (and then rarely) is an Italian BMT those stores have lost what little custom I gave them.

Lightning Mate
1st May 2014, 12:53
There I was thinking we were talking about submarines.

Blacksheep
1st May 2014, 12:54
Makes sense to me.
I guess ham sandwiches wouldn't be very popular at a Subway in the Bury Street district of Luton. Or Uxbridge Road in Southall.

. . . and it's hardly news. Mrs BS sold halal KFC in Harrow and that was back in 1979. :rolleyes:

RAC/OPS
1st May 2014, 13:04
When will we see the headline:

Riyadh Subway introduces pork on subs after strong demand from Christians

Capetonian
1st May 2014, 13:05
When will we see the headline :
"TAIL WAGS DOG"

SMT Member
1st May 2014, 13:07
Who the frack want's to eat a sandwich where the bread is made from plastic anyway? Subway to remove chemical from bread - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/06/health/subway-bread-chemical/)

Ah, yes, forgot: The unwashed masses will eat anything cheap and crappy, as long as it keeps them out of the kitchen.

tdracer
1st May 2014, 16:28
Market forces at work.

Exactly - Subway is responding to customer demand. Keep in mind that Subway has over 1500 outlets in the UK, and only about 10% or so are going with the Halal ingredients. Presumably those Subways that are going Halal will be located in areas with a strong Muslim presence.

When I lived in Indonesia, the pizza toppings were always Halal - the same basic stuff but with turkey substituted for pork. Still tasted like pizza :rolleyes:

A company responding to customer demand - what a novel concept :ugh:
As controversies go, this is pretty much a non-starter.

wings folded
1st May 2014, 16:57
Why anyone should want to eat the shit they purvey is a mystery, however it is slaughtered and whatever the species of the alleged meat which is involved.

bedsted
1st May 2014, 17:37
Quote:
"There I was thinking we were talking about submarines."

That just about sums up your worldwide knowledge LM:p

Solid Rust Twotter
2nd May 2014, 18:29
Their sandwiches are crap and I couldn't be bothered with them anyway, so no skin off my arse.

BenThere
2nd May 2014, 21:03
As a road warrior, I think Subway offers a consistent product. The sandwiches are no less healthy than a fine steak dinner at a posh steakhouse. The bread is fresh, the ingredients are at your option, and a healthy meal can be had.

You can do a lot worse than Subway.

500N
2nd May 2014, 21:42
BenThere

The salads might be "fresh" and the bread so so but the majority of the meat is processed meat, not cut off the bone.

They are OK but I don't think top of the range.

TWT
2nd May 2014, 22:00
Given a choice of McDonalds or Subway,there's no contest.Subway is a healthier option.

500N
2nd May 2014, 22:02
Anything is better than McDonalds !

TWT
2nd May 2014, 22:06
KFC isn't :p

500N
2nd May 2014, 22:11
I didn't eat KFC for 35 - 40 years because of a bad dose in the UK.
Until one of my GF's kids loved it so didn't have much choice.

The problem is, they have such a range these days, some of both menu's
are OK and some are just bloody awful !!!

Burnie5204
2nd May 2014, 22:20
The thing is - a lot of meat sold in the UK is already halal. Only very strict muslims insist on unstunned slaughter, the rest have caught up with humane slaughter.

So here's the processes

Normal - stun animal, slit throat
Halal - stun animal, slit throat....

There's no difference to the product but its all in the marketing. Muslims wont buy food that is not expressly stated as halal, many non-muslims wont buy food marked as halal even though the 2 may be the exact same meat.

Windy Militant
2nd May 2014, 22:28
Ah that explains it. I've seen Cows, I've seen sheep, I've even seen pigs. But I've never seen a Halal! I've been wondering for years what they looked like!:}

nomorecatering
2nd May 2014, 22:39
So what about the non Muslims, are they now being forced to comply with Islamic practice. What about other religions who might say they have to eat pork. Is the UK now the Islam Kingdom.

500N
2nd May 2014, 22:42
Burnie

You got it in one !

ManUtd1999
2nd May 2014, 23:32
So what about the non Muslims, are they now being forced to comply with Islamic practice. What about other religions who might say they have to eat pork. Is the UK now the Islam Kingdom.

Last time I checked Subway didn't force you to buy anything. If, like me, you disagree with Halal (although bove quotes re stunning are interesting), don't go to Subway. If enough people do it, then they'll change back. It's nothing to do with "Islam Kingdom", just pure business.

nomorecatering
3rd May 2014, 02:06
if certain religions don't want to eat pork then fine, don't eat it, but if I want a pork roll but someone wont sell it to be because of their beliefs, then I'm being forced to comply with their beliefs. It's a restriction of my freedom. You people in the UK seriously need to wakeup and see what is happening in the UK.

Lantern10
3rd May 2014, 05:39
The smell, simply walking past a subway outlet, turns my stomach.

PTT
3rd May 2014, 06:35
if I want a pork roll but someone wont sell it to be because of their beliefs, then I'm being forced to comply with their beliefsSilly argument. You can buy what you want in another shop. Just because you want to buy a garden shed from PC World doesn't mean they have to accommodate you if they think they will be more profitable not selling garden sheds.

meadowrun
3rd May 2014, 06:49
I suppose there are a few things that bite my ass about this. The one I find most curious is that I know a high percentage of Muslims who profess to require halal meats will quite happily pop into McDaniels or Boigerking or Wilmas for their doses of hamburgerland and that is just the two-faced behavior I have come to know.

Brian Abraham
3rd May 2014, 06:57
Silly argument. You can buy what you want in another shopSilly argument. Checked an Ozzie web site for a world wide chain and for the life of me could find no mention of any store catering for kosher or halal, but they do have certain stores, as we know. From their web site the impression is a bacon burger is available from all stores, which we know is not the case.

PTT
3rd May 2014, 08:16
Brian Abraham - You're going to have to narrow down which "worldwide chain" you mean. If it's McDonalds then your answer is here (http://yourquestions.mcdonalds.com.au/questions/31313).
Hi Robert. McDonald's offers halal menu items in select stores in NSW, ACT and Victoria, in response to consumer demand in those areas. Not all items in these restaurants are halal, but those that are can be found listed on the certificate on display at the front counter and Drive-thru window. You can always ask any member of our friendly crew if you need more information, too.

For your reference Robert, we have listed those restaurants that do offer halal menu items, below:

Braddon, ACT: Cnr Cooyong & Mort St

Auburn, NSW: 116 Parramatta Rd

Lidcombe, NSW: 9-15 Vaughan St

Punchbowl, NSW: 1171 Canterbury Rd

Lakemba, NSW: 804 Canterbury Rd

Liverpool South, NSW: Hume Hwy & Atkinson St

Bankstown, NSW: 37 Rickard Rd

Bankstown Square Food Court II, NSW: Bankstown Centro Shopping Centre (downstairs)

Rockdale, NSW: 603 Princes Hwy

Roselands, NSW: Roselands Shopping Centre

Greenacre North, NSW: 74 Roberts Road

Granville, NSW: Cnr Woodville & Merrylands Roads

St Albans, VIC: 5 St Albans Road

East Brunswick, VIC: Cnr Holmes & Albion Sts

Roxburgh Park, VIC: Cnr Somerton & David Munro Dr

Preston, VIC: Bell St & St Georges Rd

Dandenong, VIC: 97-99 Cheltenham Rd

Williams Landing, VIC: Corner Sayers and Forsyth Rd

We hope that helps, Robert!

Maybe you just need to use their website better? ;)

SMT Member
3rd May 2014, 10:27
You can buy pork in most of the Middle East, with certain obvious exceptions. Does that mean they're been 'Christened by stealth', or does it mean someone is responding to market demands?

The xenophobia here is quite revolting, but not as disgusting as a sandwich from Subway.

Oh, loved the idea that Subway is good, because it's more healthy than Mickey D's. Well, yes, in the same way that SARS is more healthy than Ebola, I suppose.

Wyler
3rd May 2014, 10:35
Lived in two Muslim countries. Just about all the shops sold pork and access to alcohol was allowed, albeit tightly controlled in one of the countries.
Basically, Subway is working to market forces and I see absolutely no problem with this.
The Reds under the Bed brigade need to get out more.

PTT
3rd May 2014, 16:23
"Xeno" comes from the Greek xenos, meaning foreign or strange, with "phobia" coming from phobos meaning fear. "Foreign" does not just relate to nationality, but can relate to anything which is out of its normal place: think of FOD if you want an example. Xenophobia is an entirely appropriate word.

PTT
3rd May 2014, 17:33
Mirriam-Webster, Collins, Chambers, Macmillan and dictionary.com disagree. Still, if it's the appropriate use of some word you are objecting to (grounds based on a red herring if ever there were) then how about the following:
The fear of that which is foreign here is quite revolting.

tony draper
3rd May 2014, 17:42
I was once promoted to the official Xenophobic misanthropic misogynist of prune by Danny.
:rolleyes:

El Grifo
3rd May 2014, 17:55
Not bad Tony, I was the Anti-semetic, Jew hating, Revisionist !

Despite the fact that I had great time on the Golan in '73

Had a way with words that Danny chappie :ok:

Shalom

El G.

Seldomfitforpurpose
3rd May 2014, 18:50
Mirriam-Webster, Collins, Chambers, Macmillan and dictionary.com disagree. Still, if it's the appropriate use of some word you are objecting to (grounds based on a red herring if ever there were) then how about the following:
The sceptasim of that which is foreign here is quite healthy.

There fixed it for you, just because you don't see it don't mean it might not be :p

PTT
3rd May 2014, 19:14
sceptasimThe what? :confused:

Rosevidney1
3rd May 2014, 19:23
The Shorter OED offers 'A deep antipathy to foreigners or foreign things'.

Burnie5204
3rd May 2014, 19:49
Just reading this thread it's quite astounding the number of people who describe halal meat as "islamification", "filth" or "disgusting".

How about, before you spout your opinion in public, you do exactly what you all insist other people should do before spouting opinions on aviation topics in public - learn a bit about what it is you're actually mouthing off about.

Having an opinion is one thing, having an informed opinion is even better.

con-pilot
3rd May 2014, 19:56
When it comes to Hala meat or non-Hala meat I really don't care how it is slaughtered.

What I care about is how the meat is treated after the animal is slaughtered.

PTT
3rd May 2014, 20:01
When it comes to Hala meat or non-Hala meat I really don't care how it is slaughtered.

What I care about is how the meat is treated after the animal is slaughtered.Spot on....

BenThere
3rd May 2014, 20:24
I'm not an expert on the topic of livestock slaughtering by any means. And I'm certainly not a fluffy, as those who know me on Pprune will attest.

But I do believe we owe respect to the animals who feed us. They should not suffer at their slaughter, and measures should be taken to assure they don't.

As I understand ritual Halal, it is a throat-slitting and bleeding process. I would think there are more humane ways and methods of taking the lives of the animals we feed upon.

Further, I think Halal and Kosher were established in the old days so as to ensure general health more than to establish a religious ritual. Much like the obsession with pork. It was more dangerous then to eat meat. The Bible and Koran didn't contemplate that pork could be made safe; nor did it foresee modern livestock processing methods, which might have persuaded the elders to be a bit less rigid.

meadowrun
3rd May 2014, 21:09
I will maintain that this topic is not about foreigners or how they are thought of.


It is about killing living organisms to provide the meat we eat. It is about how to most humanely kill animals. Experts have determined that of the options we have at this time, to stun first is the best way to do an awful thing. The majority of the populations of most of the world agree.


Here we have an issue of "most humane" or "ancient religious tradition". For me, I think religion should have no say in this matter.

cornish-stormrider
3rd May 2014, 22:22
Halal, or not is mostly an irrelevance.
guess what - most of you who have eaten from supermarkets have eaten horse......
if you are really unlucky then you will have sampled "long pig"

the convoluted/contorted/deliberately falsified/ route than animal protein goes thru before ending up bright red in a plastic tray surrounded by oxygen and bacteria would seriously worry you if you knew......

you think the horsemeat scandal actually dealt with more than 5% of the issue?

you want my advice - find a good butcher.
Mine can name the farm, the cow, where slaughtered, how hung and for how long and also will recommend cooking styles.
(admittedly I dont need the last one)

vac bags are the work of the devil.

TWT
3rd May 2014, 22:44
Your butcher can name the cow ? Are they all called 'Daisy' ? :p

BTW,agree 100% about buying meat from a local butcher.

kkkkkkkk

superq7
3rd May 2014, 22:56
Burnie, with due respect nowadays a quick Google search tells us all we need to know about Halal meat, IMO it's a cruel way to kill an animal, and I do care how it's slaughtered ie minimal pain, is that too much to ask ?

Cacophonix
3rd May 2014, 23:03
Despite the genius of the British navy we all know that if you are going to talk about subs (unless you are a pervert like me) you have to talk about the US Navy...

Are Muslims allowed to serve as officers... (at all)?

Over to the cross Atlantic submariners here!

Caco

West Coast
4th May 2014, 01:01
Sure they are, ask Major Nidal Malik Hasan if you don't believe me.

Admittedly a bit of a cheap shot, but he's likely the best known Muslim officer. I'm certain there's many many others who do their jobs competently.

Cacophonix
4th May 2014, 01:08
Come on West Coast, despite all the shit you guys have to deal with here , you know we respect you...

David Kramer - Weskusklong - YouTube

Caco

Clare Prop
4th May 2014, 01:39
The issue as I see it is that people who previously just went and got their lunch are now having to consider that there are others who consider their food and belief system is superior to ours and we kaffirs have to obey. Some may say "the West" deserves this for past colonisations. I disagree. It wasn't me who went on the crusades.

I understand that Halal certification costs a fair bit so every time you eat halal food you are making a donation to a religious institution. To an atheist like myself that is a good enough reason not to buy from any retailer who does this.

Cacophonix
4th May 2014, 01:44
Clare, are you talking about vegans?

Caco

Clare Prop
4th May 2014, 02:19
AFAIK vegans don't demand that food retailers pay them a fee to sell vegan products.

I know many vegans and none of them have ever demanded I eat what they eat. And most of them are atheists too.

Cacophonix
4th May 2014, 02:22
And most of them are atheists too.

I like them for that...

BAD COMPANY - ROCK STEADY (STUDIO VERSION) - YouTube


Caco

10Watt
4th May 2014, 02:39
All this palaver over 4% of the population.

A couple of years ago advertising hoardings were being defaced around

Luton because of the women portrayed.

lt stopped when a young ( and brave ! ) local newspaper reporter did

a tour of the Asian newsagents checking the titles of the top shelf mags

on display.

sitigeltfel
4th May 2014, 04:55
All this palaver over 4% of the population.

But they are now having an increasing hold over the lives of the other 95%.

(I have put aside 1% for their apologists)

PTT
4th May 2014, 05:53
people who previously just went and got their lunch are now having to consider that there are others who consider their food and belief system is superior to ours and we kaffirs have to obey.Everyone with a belief system thinks it's superior to other peoples'. I don't think this is an issue of demanding conformity, though, but of market forces: I doubt there is someone in Subway HQ with a finger on a dead man's switch currently demanding the removal of pork products from selected outlets...

F.B.Eye
4th May 2014, 06:52
The halal certification industry has grown worldwide so what happens to the money the halal certification companies rake in?

While the figures being paid canít be established due to the secrecy the scam is shrouded in, it is obvious that it must be costing consumers millions of dollars a year.

In Australia, because islam is designated a religion, they pay no taxes on the money they make.

Burnie5204
4th May 2014, 14:06
BenThere, Superq7

Neither of you are clearly reading this thread fully.

The majority of meat sold as Halal was killed the EXACT same way as much of the meat that the rest of us buy - Stunned and then had its throat slit.

Just read that again - killed the EXACT same way as much of the meat that the rest of us buy


Yes, ancient tradition was to not stun but that's from a time where animals weren't stunned. Nowadays the absolute majority of halal butchers have caught up with humane practice whilst still remaining 'halal'.


The real travesty is, as others have said, that they have to pay the Islamic religious leaders to allow them to market the product as Halal.

G-CPTN
4th May 2014, 14:30
Captive bolt pistol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captive_bolt_pistol)

As a pre-teenage boy I used to help deliver meat from the butcher's shop across the road (I would deliver the meat to the customer's house, having been driven there in the van).

I was taken to the abattoir where I observed the animals being 'stunned' and then having their throats slit and bled before being butchered by the workers.

The above article about the captive bolt gun has enlightened me - I thought that I understood the process, but, clearly, that was just half the story.

flyhardmo
4th May 2014, 15:27
In Australia, because islam is designated a religion, they pay no taxes on the money they make.

Neither does Sanitarium, the parent company of weetbix, wholly owned by the 7th-day Adventist church. Neither do any Christian, catholic, Muslim, Jewish or any other religious schools that make a profit.

Why such an uproar with a halal subway. If you disagree, go and open a deli next door to a halal subway and put them out of business if you think you can.
They've made 200 out of 1500 stores Halal to boost their business based on demographics which most people on here whinging would never go to those area's on the first place.

Metro man
5th May 2014, 00:25
McDonalds also adapts to local demand, in Israel there are no cheese burgers on the menu as Kosher laws forbid the mixing of meat and dairy products.

Have a look at their Indian store menu Favorites (http://www.mcdonaldsindia.com/menu.html)

NO BEEF !

The cow being a scared animal in India, plenty of veg and chicken options though and spicier than other locations.

They are simply catering to what their market wants.

F.B.Eye
5th May 2014, 02:59
I donít buy Sanitarium, Cadburys or even Vegemite because I object to subsidisingislam. Where does this money go and what does it support?

McDonalds in some areas do not have bacon on the menu becausethe locals donít want their halal meat processed on the same equipment.
Our local supermarket has a bakery which is halal certified butthey produced hot cross buns for Easter. Double standards?

West Coast
5th May 2014, 04:19
Metro

The cow being a scared animal in India, plenty of veg and chicken options though and spicier than other locations.

I understood what you meant, but couldn't help but chuckle at the typo. I don't think there's any animal less scared in India!

Akrotiri71
5th May 2014, 08:23
McDonalds also adapts to local demand, in Israel there are no cheese burgers on the menu as Kosher laws forbid the mixing of meat and dairy products.

Applies to sweeties also. Saw these in a supermarket yesterday.

Market forces an' all that.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ytz1is.jpg

500N
9th May 2014, 21:45
Did people see the article in the DM about Halal meat ?