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eastern wiseguy
29th Apr 2014, 17:17
Saudi Arabia criticises Norway over human rights record - News - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/saudi-arabia-criticises-norway-over-human-rights-record-9301796.html?sdjfkl)


You have to love irony.

Sop_Monkey
29th Apr 2014, 17:26
What a bunch of retards. You couldn't make it up.

Blues&twos
29th Apr 2014, 17:32
Saudi Arabia Takes The Piss is surely a more accurate headline?

Sallyann1234
29th Apr 2014, 17:33
As Crocodile Dundee would have said, "call that a kettle?'

Compare that situation with Russia calling on Ukraine to stop being beastly to its citizens in the east, while at the same time arming Assad to slaughter his citizens by the tens of thousands.

airship
29th Apr 2014, 17:45
From eastern wiseguy's link above: Saudi Arabia has criticised Norway's human rights record, accusing the country of failing to protect its Muslim citizens and not doing enough to counter criticism of the prophet Mohammed.

Seems fair enough. As most western European countries do very little (if anything) to protect their own implanted religions (Christianity, Catholism, Judaism, Buddhism etc.) anyway, confronted by increasingly "secular" governments...?

Yeah. I'm CofE at least officially. I go to church when someone close to me in my family dies. For the burial. As for the other 364 days in the year. Well, I don't (bother attending church services)...?!

Surely "others here" are taking the piss?! And not all "the retards" have yet shown themselves here...?! :D

Lonewolf_50
29th Apr 2014, 17:49
Saudi Arabia has criticised Norway's human rights record, accusing the country of
failing to protect its Muslim citizens and
not doing enough to counter criticism of the prophet Mohammed.
Regarding point 1: Norway protects its citizens of all sorts just fine, rights wise. No hands lost for thievery, no stonings for adultery, etc.

Regarding point 2: It is not the government's job to counter criticism of the prophet Mohammed. The Saudis therefore are criticizing a government for not doing a job it isn't supposed to do.

Here's a thought: any Muslim who feels less than protected or happy in Norway ought to feel free to head off to the Land of the Prophet, Saudi Arabia, so they can feel better protected.

Funny, I don't see the stampede beginning any time soon. :p

airship: indeed, all religions get their share of criticism in Norway, and for that matter the rest of Europe.

eastern wiseguy
29th Apr 2014, 17:57
How the Saudis operate on their own patch

Religious Freedom in Saudi Arabia (http://berkleycenter.georgetown.edu/essays/religious-freedom-in-saudi-arabia)


As a secular humanist I would fare less well......Fortunately I can foresee zero reasons to travel there.

Saudi Arabia declares all atheists are terrorists in new law to crack down on political dissidents - Middle East - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-arabia-declares-all-atheists-are-terrorists-in-new-law-to-crack-down-on-political-dissidents-9228389.html)

airship
29th Apr 2014, 18:26
Lonewolf_50 and eastern wiseguy: Sadly, I see a period in the near future, when very many western European (and other countries farther afield), where many politicians will choose the platform of "religious differences" from which they launch their election campaigns. :sad:

Perhaps you will give them the benefit of any of "your own" doubts?! Though that hardly matters. There has never been a time when politicians haven't tried to use similar arguments. It worked more or less well for Adolf Hitler.

Hitler's accolytes exist, even to this day. Somehow, all those of us Brits, who do envisage a future, must attempt to make some accommodations (with the UKip) apparently, (instead of simply wiping them off the surface of the planet). Which would be the simplest solution (I leave others here to suggest "final solutions". If they dare...?! :rolleyes:

PTT
29th Apr 2014, 18:41
As an atheist I find the Saudi suggestion ridiculous. That religion should require protection is testament to its weakness.

Lonewolf_50
29th Apr 2014, 18:57
airship, review Godwin's Law. Evoking Hitler needlesslly is such a trite cliche. Bad form, old chap.

PTT: if you look at the Saudi policy on atheists, it's more than just "ridiculous" at work here. The complaint about Norway fits hand in glove with their domestic policy of intolerance. From the link, not even Muslims (of some kinds) are free from Saudi official scrutiny, so atheists there would be in much religious company ...
Yet last month further regulations were issued by the Saudi interior ministry, identifying a broad list of groups which the government considers to be terrorist organisations - including the Muslim Brotherhood.

Article one of the new provisions defines terrorism as "calling for atheist thought in any form, or calling into question the fundamentals of the Islamic religion on which this country is based".

Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director of Human Rights Watch, said: "Saudi authorities have never tolerated criticism of their policies, but these recent laws and regulations turn almost any critical expression or independent association into crimes of terrorism.

"These regulations dash any hope that King Abdullah intends to open a space for peaceful dissent or independent groups," Mr Stork said.
FFS, Mr Stork, it is a no-fooling Monarchy. Monarchies have rarely handled dissent well.

If I may misquote Jean Meslier ...
... may the last of the kings to be strangled by the guts of the last mullah ...

airship
29th Apr 2014, 18:59
**** Godwin's law as you mentoned it above...?!

Do you have another "anti-argument"? Don't be embarassed to remain silent (not having any other valid argument to put forward)...?!

Lonewolf_50
29th Apr 2014, 19:29
airship, when you go from theocracies to Hitler, you step into a non sequitur at best. Your leap there struck me as simple laziness.

Suggest you take a look at the origins of Godwin's Law. See also Reductio ad Hitlerum. The rapid leap to Hitler and the Nazis is the tool of the intellectually lazy.

The hint was as follows: raise your game.

The history of politics of at least the last three or four centuries has a core element of politicians seeking support making appeals to how much "we" have in common and how much "they" are wrong. Accentuating differences is how people often collect votes. Hitler and his cronies, aside from being an egregious example of this habit, didn't invent it. Don't give them so much credit.

The joys of democracy and pluralism, as it were.

Returning to topic, those joys are hardly available to the folks of Saudi Arabia. Unfortunate, but there it is.

airship
29th Apr 2014, 19:57
For sure, you and I both, have "the luxury of commenting on Scandinavian human-rights records from our arm-chairs".

During WWII, Sweden at least was non-aligned. Serves them right that in 2014, the car-maker VOLVO today is just a Chinese subsidiary. However, another Swedish company which I won't name has succeeded in convincing most European consumers to buy their products and frequent their superstores. Even if the company behind this success is a trust which hardly pays any taxes. Even if on occassion, their managers have been suspected of racism here in France. Many "other shops to buy from" here in France without similar problems.

Sweden, like GB, is a EU member, whilst neither have yet adopted the EURO currency. It's their choice. Back in WWII though, we knew where each member stood. Some might have a valid claim, others should keep their claims to "saint-hood" in their car museums...?!

obgraham
30th Apr 2014, 02:33
Well let's see...perhaps due to some unusual circumstance, there were only two countries I could choose to live in. Norway. And Saudi Arabia.

Let me think it over, and I'll get back to you on it. After all, it gets cold in Norway. Do they have enough sweaters?

How about this: F**k this Mohammed guy, and all the camels that came after.

onetrack
30th Apr 2014, 03:32
Ahhh, yes. All those poor, downtrodden, repressed, and totally unprotected Muslim citizens of Norway.
Having to cope with their God being ridiculed in the odd cartoon, and having some people expressing opinions, that Muslims don't fit comfortably, into Norwegian culture.
Just makes you wonder why they all left their Muslim home countries, to go to such a sh*thole, doesn't it?? :E

airship
30th Apr 2014, 04:04
onetrack, never forget that in many Arab countries, they're basically forced to emigrate (or else live their lives in refugee camps). If you have even an ounce of empathy, you'll appreciate where I'm coming from. And if you can put yourself in their position, it might surprise you to think that "you're there, or where you are" not merely because of war etc. in Syria or wherever, but also that many countries feel they have some responsibilities towards you (as a result of their normal pursuance of their national interests). Long may that semblance of responsibility continue?!

PS. White immigrants in Australia is at least "unusual" (considering the history of that continent). Whereas the Oz govt. once practised a mainly "whites only" immigration policy, they had to change this so as to comply with the new south African regime. And ever since, the Ozzies practise a very controlled form of immigration, even to the extent that UK wannabe barmen in OZ bars are not very welcome, even if thousands of Ozzies live and work in the UK today...?!

What's fair or unfair? We certainly don't need some UKip nuthead telling us what to do. If they're ever voted in, they won't be telling us all what to do, they'll be directing us...?! :uhoh:

onetrack
30th Apr 2014, 04:34
Airship - And they're "basically forced to emigrate", because of what reasons?

I'm suggesting it's because of a totally intolerant, vicious religion that constantly reinforces murder, savage retribution, and severe restrictions on personal freedoms, as its major controlling forces, in the countries where they "escaped" from.

These Muslims flee to Western countries because of our tolerant, freedom-loving societies that live in the 21st century, not the 5th century.

Then the likes of Saudi Arabia - which nation has been enriched beyond belief by Western contact, education, and financial gain - has the hide to try and bring our Western nations laws and cultures back into the 5th century, where Saudi Arabia still prefers to reside - governmentally, culturally, morally, and religiously. :ugh:

baggersup
1st May 2014, 01:23
Learned everything I needed to know about the embracing of new immigrants in Norway by watching "Lilyhammer" with Stevie Van Zandt. Stevie plays a mafia informant who gets the bright idea he wants to go to Lilyhammer for witness protection only because he saw the Olympics on tv.

One of the funniest darned things I've ever seen.

The running gag in the series is the various third world immigrants who are in the centres where they are teaching them about Norwegian culture and the language and whatnot, in order to allow them to assimilate, etc.

Then of course Stevie's character comes along, doing what he does best--illegal mafia stuff in the midst of all the tree huggers--and tends to befriend and organize the various immigrants into various of his illegal but brilliant crime schemes.

A fantastic satire on the whole crazy mess.

When he's got a reindeer farmer strung up on a rope because he's been up to no good (Stevie's somewhat the local "enforcer" when the uber-liberal law fails), his two henchmen stand by and the three watch the farmer whining and yelling.

Stevie's character, in his best "Silvio" impersonation, looks down at his phone and yells over to the farmer, "Shut up! Ahm tweetin' heah!"

Tankertrashnav
1st May 2014, 09:15
I got into Lillyhammer by accident, thinking it was another of the "Scandi-noir" crime series that I'm addicted to. I thought it was brilliant!

I'm usually on this forum defending the vast majority of Muslims against the more rabid forms of Islamophobia which abound here, but in this instance I am wholeheartedly with the sentiment of the OP. For Saudi Arabia which is a human rights nightmare to criticise Norway would be laughable if it weren't so tragic.

Cacophonix
1st May 2014, 10:42
From what I have seen of Norway it is probably one of the most civilized nations on the face of this planet (save for the odd murdered whale or two) so it beggars belief that a corrupt, barbaric, medieval and religiously crippled regime like Saudi Arabia dares criticise Norway.

Caco

Sop_Monkey
1st May 2014, 11:16
If they actually cared about human rights they could solve the Palestinian problem, with the stroke of a pen. If they really gave a damn about the Palestinians human rights, they would host them. The whole lot. They have the infrastructure, money and the space. Why don't our governments pressure them instead of hammering Israel? I'll tell you why, oil, contracts and jobs. If every stupid head of state who want s to make the middle east their number one priority, then pressure them, not the state of Israel.

The Sudanese in the late '70's IIRC hosted several camps of Palestinians for a while. Even they had to eventually boot them out as they caused so much trouble.

PTT
1st May 2014, 12:53
most of them :rolleyes: