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funfly
28th Apr 2014, 18:40
This has got to be one of the simplest crimes to carry out so I thought I would share it with fellow JB's in order to get as many people as possible to be aware of it.

A few weeks ago an elderly woman was fleeced of her life savings of around 145,000

She received a phone call purportedly from her bank advising her that there was a problem with the security of her savings account. The caller said that, in the name of security, she should personally call her bank on the number from the back of her card.

She dialed her bank and, after giving identification, the lady she spoke to on the phone confirmed that her account had a problem, she was told that the bank would set up another account which would be secure and she should transfer her money into it. Over the phone she arranged the transfer of her savings, around 145,000 to the other account using her passwords etc. and all seemed good.

What she did not realise was that the first caller had never rang off - her dialling was a waste of time and she simply talked to a lady partner of the scammer still on the line - who had talked her into transferring her savings to their account.

She didn't get her money back.

Capetonian
28th Apr 2014, 19:06
It's an old and well known technique of scammers.

Unfortunately the sort of people who are likely to fall for it are not likely to be users of websites such as this one, scambusters, 419eater, etc, but the way to avoid this situation is to make sure you get a dial tone, dial another number, and then dial your bank. But of course we know that ...... victims don't which is why they become victims.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
28th Apr 2014, 19:39
So, we have bank security that makes it a total pain in the backside to withdraw your own small amounts, yet there isn't any check on large amounts like this.
The end is nigh.

Worrals in the wilds
28th Apr 2014, 23:15
I'm pretty sure that my bank has a phone/internet banking maximum daily transfer limit of $5000. Any more than that and you have to show up at the branch with ID.

A lot of older people have trouble with phone/internet banking, and they are easy prey for these sorts of scams. The banks have been happy to shove everyone out of the branch and save costs, but it leads to this sort of thing when customers can't get their head around what's legit and what isn't.

ExSp33db1rd
29th Apr 2014, 01:53
And which of the Ten Commandmants states that one must own a Computer, anyway ?

onetrack
29th Apr 2014, 02:57
This scam relies on the victims being simple and over-trusting. Would you really fall for this? I don't think so. If it was me, I'd be hanging up, then calling the bank on my mobile or another line, just to check - and I sure as hell wouldn't be giving any personal details or banking details to anyone who hadn't indulged in some kind of verification known only to me.

The scammers take great care to select naive, simple, over-trusting victims. The world is littered with them, and I doubt that you will ever stop these scams, no matter how much you advertise their modus operandi.

We even have victims of Nigerian scammers here in Oz who still refuse to believe they have been scammed, even when confronted by police with proof of fraudulent behaviour by the scammers. They still insist the people they're dealing with are genuine, and they'll deliver on their promises. :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

ExSp33db1rd
29th Apr 2014, 03:42
They still insist the people they're dealing with are genuine,

But people believe in Father Christmas, and the Tooth Fairy, too.

Nowt so queer as folk.

onetrack
29th Apr 2014, 04:19
Nowt so queer as folk.ExSp33db1rd - This is true. However, remember that Father Christmas has been known to actually deliver real Christmas presents - and the Tooth Fairy has actually been known to leave 5c pieces (or sixpences) under pillows.
I can't say the same for those nasty scammers - they just take, and take, and take, and give nothing back. :p

cattletruck
29th Apr 2014, 05:31
I always thought the best bank scams were the Greek ones.

Bank robber walks into bank and demands 100K Euro then makes a getaway. Greek Bank Manager picks up the phone and calls police telling them he's just been robbed of 200K Euro.

TWT
29th Apr 2014, 05:36
Just like the police scam.Cops bust drug dealer with 10kgs of goodies and charge him with possession of 5kgs.

llondel
29th Apr 2014, 06:05
I always admired the chap who came up with the midnight lines scam and allegedly took BT for quite a sum of money, all perfectly legal.

Back when phone calls were fairly expensive, BT offered a tariff called the "midnight line", where the line was effectively free for use between midnight and 6am. It was aimed at companies who wanted their central computer to dial a load of outstations and collect/distribute data, lots of fairly short calls, each of which would incur the minimum charge.

What this chap did was get a bank of midnight lines and a bunch of premium-rate numbers and arranged for the former to call the latter at midnight and sit on the lines until 6am. BT had apparently neglected to prohibit this in their standard contract, so they had to pay him for the calls to his premium rate lines. I think contract terms got tweaked slightly after that, but he got to make his money until his original contract expired.

Did this actually happen, or is it just one of those good stories on the net?

onetrack
29th Apr 2014, 06:25
Cattletruck - I have to disagree. The best bank scam was the one where the crims nearly got away with a transfer of $150M in superannuation funds.
It was only stopped in its tracks at the last second by an alert Greek bank employee, and a stupid move by one of the crims - who added the Australian "Pty Ltd" to a Cypriot company name on a fax, that didn't fit with the Greek company terminology.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/the-three-letters-that-brought-down-a-150m-sydney-superannuation-heist/story-e6frea8c-1226059956234

Capetonian
29th Apr 2014, 06:35
The greatest scams of all time, in chronological order, are religion, communism and its odious offshoots, and the EU.

acbus1
29th Apr 2014, 08:09
Over the phone she arranged the transfer of her savings, around 145,000 to the other account using her passwords etc.
As I understand it, it is essential to never give your full password to anything other than the correct website login screen (https) or limited elements of your password via the correct, dialled phone number. The victim should have realised a problem when the so-called 'bank' asked for her full password.

I took an online broker to hell and back when they changed their name and website without proper procedures. First I knew of this was when I went to the old website and was redirected to the new. Alarm bells rang in my head (the new pills are helping, though) and I refused to give anyone my password until the FCA had confiirmed the exact situation. Hard work, given that the FCA are so excruciatingly slow, in my experience.

Tankertrashnav
29th Apr 2014, 10:18
and the Tooth Fairy has actually been known to leave 5c pieces (or sixpences) under pillows.


Cheapskate :=

;)

ian16th
29th Apr 2014, 15:11
Cheapskate :=

Not necessarily so!

Probably just old like me. I can remember when NAAFI tea was 1d a cup and 6d was a significant sum.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
29th Apr 2014, 15:21
Why does the telephone system have this flaw? Surely if either party hang up, the line should be dropped. What possible purpose is served by holding the line open if only one party hangs up?

radeng
29th Apr 2014, 15:40
One can waste their time by giving a sort code for a bank you don't bank at, an invented 8 digit account number and an invented password.

Capetonian
29th Apr 2014, 17:04
I would question why her bank allowed her to have such a large sum on call. It should have been in fixed term accounts earning interest...... Her bank is at fault and should bear liability for not giving her sound financial advice.

When my mother started losing the plot, I started to look through her finances to make sure bills were paid and so on. In that process, I found in her current account that over about 5 years she had had an average balance of about 70,000. She assured me that 'the bank must have made a mistake when they type out those statements they send you ......' and she was going to call them to tell them. Warning bells. I went in to the bank and saw the 'manager', a cocky little cockney accented whippersnapper with a cheap suit, loud tie, spots, and hair gel, and a rude and condescending attitude. It was, he said, entirely my 80 whatever years old mother's problem. I worked out in my head the interest she'd lost (a few thousand pounds as rates were then higher) and said I'd be taking this up with the FSA.

In the end I took it up at a senior level in the bank and got the amount I'd asked for, plus a hefty ex-gratia payment. It pays to stand up and fight back.

The Flying Pram
29th Apr 2014, 22:54
What possible purpose is served by holding the line open if only one party hangs up?That's a throwback from the from the days of electro-mechanical exchanges. The originating party kept the complete string of relays and switches operated, even if the called party hung up. This was known as "CSH" or Called Subscriber Held, and gave rise to many fault reports each day, whereby an exchange engineer would have to trace the call back to find the source, and physically disengage the switch.

When electronic systems came in, a time limit (usually 3 minutes) was introduced, after which the called party's line would be released. I suppose there is no reason why the call couldn't be dropped if either party hung up, but this would mean the called end couldn't replace one phone handset, and go to another room/phone and pick up the call again, which was common place before cordless phones became so popular...

ExSp33db1rd
29th Apr 2014, 23:50
I can remember when NAAFI tea was 1d a cup and 6d was a significant sum.

And petrol was 1.9d (8p ? ) a gallon. Not that I was buying of course, but my dad was, and I remember the horror of paying 5 bob a gallon myself ( but then my wage was only one pound a week )

You remember the NAAFI ? !!

Cheapskate

You're forgetting thre'penny bits.

onetrack
30th Apr 2014, 03:56
No, I don't regard myself as a cheapskate, and in quoting sixpences and their 5c equivalent, I was thinking back to when I was a child in the mid-1950's, and when sixpence was enough to buy an icecream. In fact, in that era you could actually get a smaller size dollop of icecream in a cone, for threepence.
It's a far cry from the $4.50 or $5.00 they ask today, but I guess it's all still relative.
I can remember my Dad getting a resident-hotel-painter job when he sold the dairy farm in 1957, and he was very pleased to get 15 pounds ($30) a week in wages.

llondel
30th Apr 2014, 04:30
A few times when I've shifted significant sums through my current account on their way to buy a new car or pay off a chunk of mortgage, the bank clerk has always noted the high balance and tried to start the sales patter for a savings account. I just deflect it by noting that the money is unfortunately "just passing through" and the relevant cheque was written within a week.

ian16th
30th Apr 2014, 12:54
in 1957, and he was very pleased to get 15 pounds

I should think so! I was a Cpl in an advanced a/c trade, on my 1st overseas tour, getting 7 a week.

With duty free whisky being 7/6 a bottle and duty free ciggies 7/6 for 200 I was really struggling.

But I didn't 'alf enjoy it :ok:

Dont Hang Up
2nd May 2014, 13:48
I always thought the best bank scams were the Greek ones.

Bank robber walks into bank and demands 100K Euro then makes a getaway. Greek Bank Manager picks up the phone and calls police telling them he's just been robbed of 200K Euro.

Cattletruck - I have to disagree. The best bank scam was the one where the crims nearly got away with a transfer of $150M in superannuation funds.
It was only stopped in its tracks at the last second by an alert Greek bank employee, and a stupid move by one of the crims - who added the Australian "Pty Ltd" to a Cypriot company name on a fax, that didn't fit with the Greek company terminology.

No you are both wrong. The best Greek scam is where the bank manager phones the Deutsche Bundesbank and says the country has mislaid 150 billion Euros. Would they kindly replace the shortfall before the end of business today.

Lightning Mate
2nd May 2014, 18:10
I do not subscribe to internet banking - it is a very stupid thing to do.


I thus have no passwords or details that may be hacked.


I go to my local branch and speak to people.


If you do anything else you are just stupid!

Dont Hang Up
20th May 2014, 12:57
In truth, the easiest way to hack into someone's account is to create the internet account from scratch where the person has chosen not to set it up for themself. That way the hacker has the account tied in with an email account / mobile phone etc of their own choosing, giving them a really easy ride.

Hacking into an existing account (with a good secure password that is not written down) is actually quite tricky. And the hacker has the added risk of the legitimate owner getting emails and texts alerting them to possible misuse.

Capetonian
20th May 2014, 13:54
I do not subscribe to internet banking - it is a very stupid thing to do.For some people it is a necessary evil, and that would apply to many of us who are 'mobile'. I need to have bank accounts in three countries and currencies, and when I am on the move I do not have the luxury of going into a branch and talking to a person.
There is also the aspect of doing banking from home instead of having to sit in traffic, find parking, stand in a queue breathing other peoples' farts and bad breath, and being dealt with with by a disinterested and barely competent clerk.
For those and other reasons, internet banking serves me very well.

Bob Viking
20th May 2014, 15:00
With the greatest of respect, I'm assuming you're retired. This, I'm sure, gives you ample time to get to the bank to carry out your business. Think back to your RAF days and how often were you based within easy reach of a bank? Probably more often than now since many of the smaller branches have been closed.
Until banks actually work hours that are convenient to those that work for a living or who live outside of towns then my visits will remain few and far between.
For what it's worth I love internet banking. For instance, I have just been able to transfer money from my UK account to my Canadian account with the click of a finger. A damn site easier than trying to talk to someone from across the Atlantic!
BV:ok: