VIETJET AIR /ATRANS AVIATION

[Air Tama]

Dear fellows Aviators,

I just wanted to know if any of you has ever heard about "ATRANS AVIATION" working with Vietjet Air??? To check if this "brooker" can be trusted or it is a scam.

Any advise will be much appreciate.

Happy landings!!!

[Romeo.a320]

Hello

I dont think they do cuz im just about to join vietjet through another agency and they are exclusive!!!!

[lingdee]

So far quite a number of agents promise pay to fly line training with vietjet but none turn out to be legit since Vietnam DCA insist they take only local pilots unless experience foreign pilots with hours on type.

[Romeo.a320]

Can you name those agencies?

[pfvspnf]

Romeo, if you do get into vietjet, pls let us know that way we will know that southern aviation is legit.

[Romeo.a320]

Wilco pfvspnf... I hope so at least for my sake ;)

[pilotchute]

P2F price at Vietjet is 59,000 Euro! More if you don't have the rating or base training.

OMG what is happening to this job. Sadly they will be lining up for it.

[zed7]

anyone with any further news and updates about the Atrans A320 program, please share.

[Marcomarco]

I met the people behind Atrans Aviation in person last month. Also went to the company to check everything. The contract has been reviewed by my laywer. All seems to be very professional and clear. There are no payments in front. During the programme you will work with the Airline and them together. Once again; every payment is done when you completed the check in Bangkok and are released by the Airline to strart the Line Training. I will start within two months. At the end: Is Ryanair not a P2F?.

[pilotchute]

Marco,

As much as Ryan air charge you over the odds for a type rating they don't fit in to the pay to fly model. Paying 60k euros after you have a type is. Are you serious? Your going to pay someone 60k euro to sit and operate the gear handle?

You must have more money than brains

[typhoonpilot]

I think a blacklist should be developed. Any pilot who pays to fly in any of these programs should be placed on that list. All other airline pilots should work very hard to ensure such pilots never get an opportunity to work in the industry again. They are destroying the pay and benefit packages worldwide by their short sighted actions and should suffer the consequences of those actions.


Typhoonpilot

[USMCProbe]

There is nothing wrong with the aviation market right now. It is booming all over the world. Unfortunately there are a bunch of bottom feeders that still can't get jobs and are willing to P2F instead of working their way up from the bottom like the rest of the "real" pilots.

[pfvspnf]

So is SAS exclusive for vietjet as Romeo claims ?

[MDT06]

Thyphoonpilot has a very good point. Something has to happen to make it stop.

As far as Zed7's comment,
"Let people do as they please, most of of these threads end up with messages against P2F and how its fuking the industry, ok , understood ! now lets move ahead and talk about stuff that matters rather than a general negative attitude towards P2F."

P2F really matters to must PROFESSIONAL pilots, it matters more than you could probably comprehend.

Such a statement shows the lack of professionalism.

MDT06

[Luke SkyToddler]

To the best of my knowledge the CAAV still requires minimum 500 on type to issue a conversion from a foreign licence. And they are very specific about it, i.e. they require actual A321 time for Vietnam Airlines foreign pilot conversions, they don't count A320 or A319.

Vietjet isn't short of pilot applications, a very large number of hugely experienced local Vietnamese pilots from Vietnam Airlines have applied for the job.

I would be very very very very cautious about paying money up front to anybody for a job with Vietjet. Especially an agency that nobody's ever heard of.

[pfvspnf]

Is it me or is pay to fly on the way out ? More and more people find it very very difficult to get the line training completed ! They usually get scammed into doing the TR with the agent.

[lingdee]

That,s correct Luke . Few of my mates flew to hanoi and that is what they were told in order for a foreign pilot be employed there.

CPL 200 hour fresh pilots are only for locals.

They lost a lot of expats fo to vietnam air recently.

[Greenlights]

a very large number of hugely experienced local Vietnamese pilots from Vietnam Airlines have applied for the job.

I would say the contrary...
going from VNA to VJ, glup ! or something wrong with their mind !

[Dihedral1]

VJ offers a better pay and time off package for locals.
As Luke inferred many local VN pilots are making noises about going over to VJ, however they still need to be released from the 15yrs- lifetime (retirement age) training bonds. Last TRE who left had to bring a lawyer and pay off his not inconsiderable bond. Also..
The CAAV will accept either A320 or a321 time, they issue a license to pilots to fly 320's but VN only have 321s. 319 however does seem to be a sticking point.
Disagree with Luke that VJ is not short of pilots, talk to the guys there. Their short and with an aircraft a month (to fulfill 92 a/C order) going to get shorter, unless they do a Skymark (380).:=

[pfvspnf]

Does the CAAV know about the pay to fly program? Is this an approved training program ?

[Greenlights]

Does the CAAV know about the pay to fly program? Is this an approved training program ?

I know some guys in VJ; there is no p2f program...dunno where you get this info?
if it was the case, why the CAAV should say something ? as long as it brings money, they won't say anything. Especially in VN. :O

[pfvspnf]

Guess more people are in the process of getting scammed. If you want to pay to fly, why don't you check with the airline directly ? The shady agent diesnt want you talking to anybody from the airline and usually threatens to cancel the deal if you do so.

[Bushpilot87]

Some guys I know in Vietjet heard some rumours abt the pay2fly programs but nobody is sure. We'll I suppose it's a good sign if they let you do a sim check with someone of the airline without paying the full amount of the program up front.. But then for the ppl who are willing to go for this they still have to be cautious..

[the grove]

Typhoon,

There is no practical way for non union pilots to enforce a blacklist. If there was, our distinguished poster Tanua would be unemployable, having left his mates on a picket line and transferred to another division of the same corporation, where he promptly performed struck work. There is a word for this but I can't say it, because the sensitive lad runs to the mods to have posts deleted when his feathers are ruffled.

The safety records at some of the pay2fly operations show that they are playing with fire. Airlines that cut corners in one area tend to do it in others as well. If there is an economic price to pay, it might finally force them to reevaluate pay2fly.

[pfvspnf]

Where is Romeo ?

[dickandballs]

This is a another place run by a big talker in Sri Lanka. Dont get trapped he has political connections where he can get away ,, goons are on his side your money will dissapear,,,,

[Romeo.a320]

whats up pfvspnf? you miss me? I'm here reading all the posts, never gone away.

folks, i have a confirmation from the OP manager at vietjet that SAS is the only agency, what now? convinced

[pfvspnf]

That's good to hear. So you are implying that atrans is a scam ?

Did you pass the sim eval ?

[Romeo.a320]

well, I'm not ruling anything out but, i know what i know and that it. maybe atrans is also providing, dunno. but based on OP managers email, sas IS the only one.

do you fly anywhere pfvspnf? or just like us looking for a contract some where.

[A320flight]

who is OP manager Romeo ?, can you provide me.
I have checked with Vj as well and confirmed that Atrans is a agent providing exp pilots and cadets for line training program.
Also i got the contract as well as details of line training program from Atrans, everything is very clear and reliable.
I don't have to pay anything before the the Skype interview with VJ even after by Atrans. i just pay very small amount (1,500e) when i enroll the program in VN and do the Sim check. the 2nd payment is after passing the sim check and after signing the agreement with both VJ and Atrans. 3rd payment is after passing the line check.
So i don't know what i have to worry abt ? please advise me when anyone have any info, thanks

[pilotchute]

Guys in Vietnam anything is possible. This agency or that doesn't matter. It will be corrupt management at Vietjet behind any P2F scheme.

[Luke SkyToddler]

FFS I cannot advise you strongly enough do NOT take the word of ANY agencies or anyone on pprune claiming that such-and-such agency has a deal with the airline.

The national sport here is taking money off gullible westerners, and the sums you guys are talking about spending is like a lottery win to the Vietnamese. (Literally - I think the biggest prize in the national lottery is 3 trillion VND which equates to about 100,000 euro).

I don't approve of P2F but I approve even less of people throwing their money away for nothing - therefore I say again PLEASE contact the airline directly for the correct info regarding the recruitment process. People are getting scammed here without a doubt.

Also, for what it's worth, there are rumours every day about the number of local Vietnamese pilots who have resigned from VNA in order to move to Vietjet (yes really, because it's a massive pay rise for them). Most of them are very experienced and well connected - and it's all about politics here. Whether or not they get the Vietjet job is another matter, but rest assured if the locals think their interests are being compromised by 200 hour foreigners, they will be phoning the CAAV and doing everything in their power to get them removed.

And if that was to happen, I would say anyone who had paid for P2F would have less than a snowball's chance in hell of getting their money back :rolleyes:

[Dihedral1]

Suggest you all read AGAIN, Luke's post..It is on the money. :ok:

[Greenlights]

Also, for what it's worth, there are rumours every day about the number of local Vietnamese pilots who have resigned from VNA in order to move to Vietjet (yes really, because it's a massive pay rise for them)

They're crazy... VNA may pay less (i don't know exactly) but the routes are far more interesting, the planes too (777, 330 etc), the IATA member, yes they should not forget that, good to go on holidays for a cheap price etc.

VJ has : some routes, 320 (only), it's LCC (so...it says all) and not IATA member.

They should really do the maths before (and think in long term career too).

[aba343]

Vietjet good for desperate pilots, and or inexperienced capts f/os with no place to go. Corrupted place. No medical no loss of license no benefits. Basic salary is a joke. And now they tying to play dirty game with salary payment , you never get what you suppose to be paid at the end of the month they keep some of your money just in case you leave !! Be careful guys.

[Dihedral1]

We'll that all depends. VN is a State Owned Enterprise

Vietnam to guarantee $626 mln bonds to help tackle Vinashin foreign debt | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/vietnam-debt-vinashin-idUSL4N0I03GO20131010)

[Greenlights]

someone raised the P2F point, and it's right actually..mea culpa.

Apparently it's an agency based in Rome (i don't have the name), who rents the sims from Alitalia, they work with
atlas jet, vietjet, vietnam airline, tunisair...

that's really bad but not surprising from them.

[SOPS]

I'm glad I am about to retire. This industry is going to hell very soon pilots won't get paid at all, they will just pay to "work" . How the hell these kids think they are going to bring up a family is beyond me. They just don't get it. They think they will pay to fly, get hours and go somewhere else. But when they try to get another job, all the positions will be taken by other pay to flyers.

It's a fcing mess, but they have made it themselves, enjoy.:ugh:::ugh:

[Greenlights]

I'm glad I am about to retire. This industry is going to hell very soon pilots won't get paid at all, they will just pay to "work" . How the hell these kids think they are going to bring up a family is beyond me. They just don't get it. They think they will pay to fly, get hours and go somewhere else. But when they try to get another job, all the positions will be taken by other pay to flyers.

It's a fcing mess, but they have made it themselves, enjoy.:

i am not sure who to blame actually. BUt for sure the kids do some wrongs things by paying;

But in the case of Vietjetair, at first, this airline had offered Type rating (Toulouse) to some cadets under a local contract for 5 years. So it was not that bad.

It seems that now the airline turned badly... I think, they got inspired by some european or others asian airlines mainly and not by the kids.

It's like a cancer :( first the airline is in a good shape and then it becomes bad... sad.

[Greenlights]

Alwayswannafly, sorry for you man. But as you say, you deserve surely a better opportunity.

The bad thing, is you may wait for a long time...unfortunately, as I said, It is something that spreads like cancer cells.

Indeed VJC, before this sh**;paid for TR (against a 5 years contract, actually one year but renewalbe) , and pilots were paid during LT. Except the OBS flights...
Do they still offer some food on board to the crew or make they it pay like other LCC ? I would not be suprised that one day, 100% of food will be paying.

Now, some pilots are ready to pay just to go beyond others. But that will not last, they will see that when VJ will not need of them, they will kick their ass, and their career will be quite unstable.

Glad I have a business beside, so I only use this inudstry to fly where I want and when I want, but not for a real career. Oh no...no no.

VJ may be a cool environnement, especially with cabin crew (well apparently with the technicians it's not so fun sometimes), but the way they treat pilots and passengers (they are often late according to articles) it says it all.

[pfvspnf]

So you can confirm that vietjet does do paytofly?

They are going on my blacklist !

More details? Who are the agents? How much does it cost? And what sort of individuals are lining up for this 'privilege' ?

[pfvspnf]

and paying for OBS? hahahaha :D

[Greenlights]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsQIqv1PfTM

So you can confirm that vietjet does do paytofly?

They are going on my blacklist !

More details? Who are the agents? How much does it cost? And what sort of individuals are lining up for this 'privilege' ?

check the YT link, it's in french... would be nice with subtitles, maybe someone would do it...anyway, at the 59 minutes, you will hear clearly the airlines names who signed a contract with an italian agency...no name ! what a pity...it was under hidden camera.

some french, have balls to talk about pay to fly theme ! and it's not finished. The broadcast is short , about 20 minutes...what a pity too.

But that's a start.

About the OBS flights, if it's true that it's paying, ahahah what a shame.

You do work during OBS flights !!! (radio, or doing the loadsheet, even though now, apparently in HCM and Hanoi, the ground staff does the loadsheet).

[pfvspnf]

So I'm paying for OBS, hours I cannot count as I'm not operational yet, you do limited cockpit preparation and maybe some radio work. ! And they want money for these sectors ? For the most part you look at the window and take pictures for Facebook !

That's all these p2frs are good at selfies. !

[Greenlights]

So I'm paying for OBS, hours I cannot count as I'm not operational yet, you do limited cockpit preparation and maybe some radio work. ! And they want money for these sectors ? For the most part you look at the window and take pictures for Facebook !

Dude, can"t you imagine that you'll be airline pilot, best job (sorry.. hobby) in the world ?
so, yes, you have to pay for this privilege to post pics on FB !!

god ! you should pay for this job, and not being paid! so be happy ok ?

(irony) ;)

[ANGRY Pilots]

Greenlight, I want to thank you for the link to the french TV. I am the one that participate...

I made some enquiries for the TV and I obtain several propositions.... There are so many offers for Pay To Fly with no contract, no salary, nothing,....

Subtitles are coming soon....

We have created a petition against Pay To Fly. We need 100.000 signatures to be heard by european commission:
https://secure.avaaz.org/fr/petition/p2f_must_stop/

Please, sign and make it turn!

[Greenlights]

Greenlight, I want to thank you for the link to the french TV. I am the one that participate...

I made some enquiries for the TV and I obtain several propositions....

Subtitles are coming soon....

You ? wow awsome buddy !
No prob, don't mention it! you're welcome....
I understand french that's why I heard about it, but sure, the subtitles are more than welcome too.

There are so many offers for Pay To Fly with no contract, no salary, nothing,....

haha ! you bet !

[ANGRY Pilots]

As you said, it's just the beginning.... We are making noise and some european pilots associations are supporting us....

We have to speak loudly about Pay To Fly to be heard

[CockpitSeeker]

Yep, I confirm.
French SNPL is backing us. Swiss AEROPERS ans Belgium BeCA is discussing support as well as the ECA (European Cockpit Association), in a meeting set this week.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Wow I bet all the P2F airlines of southeast asia will be shaking in their boots, when they hear all those european pilot's unions in France and Belgium are "holding meetings" and "discussing support" and "making noise" :rolleyes:

That's all that unions are good for these days unfortunately

[pfvspnf]

I think lion air should be punished but it's the agents themselves that need to learn a lesson !

[faacfilookingforajob]

P2F airlines are probably laughing at pilots.

Like alcohol & drug, more prohibited it is, more....

12 Bad Effects of Prohibition You Should Know (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2009/03/12-bad-effects-of-prohibition-you-should-know/)

[pfvspnf]

They are having a good laugh, so are these scam agencies when you send the money to their bank account.

Romeo can you give us an update on your progress. ?

[Rotorhead1026]

These unfortunately aren't actually VietJet girls; they're professional models.


Racy photos of scantily-clad VietAir flight attendants stir controversy | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2014/09/23/racy-publicity-photos-featuring-vietair-flight-attendants-slammed-before/)

[Greenlights]

Of course...
In Vietnam, many things are just fake or put out smoke and mirror. (like their pseudo order of 90 airbus).
The girls are from Venus agency. And by the way, those kinds of girl would rather work as pro model than being an underpaid flight attendant in a scout uniform all the day long. I know it, I dated a pro model and they would never change their job, except when older obvisouly^^.
And personnaly, I never date a FA in the same airline...bad idea, especially when the airline is small.

Vietjet use a lot marketing strategy and they do need girls because........... they only have that. So they try to attract the young generation.

[JAMUP]

I ve seen some comments about Viet Jet /Atrans Aviation but cannot see a direct frank comment whether this program is something similar to Lion Air ?

I am looking forwrd to see somebody actually has gone through this program and flying for Viet Jet

Thanks

[pfvspnf]

That's probably because this program doesn't exist and the agent is lying to you

[ANGRY Pilots]

That's a pity. A lot of messengers I have written on that topic are not published.... :(

[Greenlights]

That's a pity. A lot of messengers I have written on that topic are not published....

Pprune is not like any others forum I know....freedom of speech is not taken into account. :mad:

[Cris_Flores]

Not with vietjet....but Atransaviation states that they have line training in cambodja with
Angkor air, but probably is a scam, because this Angkor air, changed name few months ago...and on the old airline there are still waiting for line training 15 pilots from south korea!!!!

If an airline changes name, asks for new line training pilots, but the old airline still have 15 new recruits waiting for starting line on the bus, do you think this new Angkor air will make line training for the new pilots/recruits?

I dont believe so...if i know this story...i think atransaviation knows this story too!!!!

[pfvspnf]

What a scam mate , first vietjet now Cambodia, they keep throwing out names. A friend of mine was told his linevtrainjng will be in Congo then Mexico then Tunisia and was finally screwed over by the agent .

[lee_apromise]

there are still waiting for line training 15 pilots from south korea!!!!

These idiots paid $50K for A320 TR and line training fees. All they get paid is per diem whilst flying. P2F never fails to disappoint! :D

[pfvspnf]

So they are flying ? Do they get a job after ?

[lee_apromise]

So they are flying ? Do they get a job after ?

AFAIK, they were told that if they perform well during their 500 hours line training, they would receive job offers but if you are the owner, will you offer them job offers? There are plenty of other people lining up to give you $50K per head for giving them 500hrs on A320. Besides, that airline is not financially stable anyway.

[squarecrow]

Chris Flores,
That Information is Bull with a Capital B. Cambodia Angkor Air is 49 percent owned by Vietnam Airlines. They have been going for 5 years plus and currently don't have dealings with Korean's or P2F schemes.
They also have not changed the Name either. Sounds like a scam going on with an outfit called 9star in Thailand or maybe Skywings is involved in Cambodia. Both have Korean Management.

[Cris_Flores]

Cambodja Angkor Air is the national airline, never made P2F schemes. Will start now?

Sky Wings managed by Korean team changed name couple weeks ago. And has p2f pilots waiting to join...

Now...which one it is...

[Luke SkyToddler]

Cambodia Angkor Air is effectively a subsidiary of Vietnam Airlines, and is operated by VNA pilots with Vietnamese licences. They are absolutely definitely NOT involved in selling any kind of pay-to-fly, through themselves or any agency.

Anyone who claims otherwise, or asks for money from aspiring pilots, is lying and should be reported to the local anti-fraud authorities.

[ZFT]

I suspect that Cris_F may be getting himself confused with Bassaka Air which has started up in Cambodia with I believe Chinese money and support?

[kwaiyai]

Angkor Air has no need or plans to set up some P2F. Luke is correct except there is a few Local and Foreign Non VNA Crew with them.

Skywings is still operating as Skywings and there is another new start called Apsara which just got its AOC.

Bassaka has no dealings with P2F and anyway my SSCA Friend told me
still No AOC yet for them. Suspect its Skywings up to something, if you know the Management there Nuff said.

I also hear 9star Boss is up to some Dodgy scam with an ex Non Thai FO who went to Vietjet then left under a cloud again. Lots of post's about that Wazz on here. Something about Korean Cadet's so figure that one.

[Cris_Flores]

All i wanted to say was that Skywings is in trouble because has 15 new pilots to join linetraining since June/July. The national carrier Angkor air will not start p2f.


So if atrans aviation is stating that will have line training in Cambodja with one airline called Angkor Air, its a SCAM for me.

[squarecrow]

Cambodian start-up, Apsara Int'l Air, launches flights

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/stock/2034.jpg © Apsara International Air Logo of Apsara International Air (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/31798-cambodian-start-up-apsara-intl-air-launches-flights)

09OCT2014
Apsara International Air (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/PKH) (IP, Siem Reap (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/2589)) commenced scheduled operations on Wednesday, October 8, 2014 with daily flights between Phnom Penh (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/PNH) and Siem Reap (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/REP). Operations are on-board a sole A320-200, XU-ZAB (cn 476), sourced from fellow Cambodian carrier, Skywings Asia Airlines (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/GSW) (ZA, Phnom Penh (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/2587)).

Airline CEO, Zhang Xiaopeng, says the Chinese-backed carrier intends to open up international routes to Japan, South Korea and Russia, once domestic operations have stabilized.

About Apsara International Air

Type Scheduled Carrier (https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airline/PKH) Base Siem Reap (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/airports/REP) Aircraft 1 (http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/aircraft/search?search=1&cha=PKH)

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[WYOMINGPILOT]

Add to this list Bassaka Air another Chinese backed Cambodia start up to launch in Dec. 2014 using A-320s. It seems like Cambodia is turning into a huge start up market.

Profile on Bassaka Air | CAPA - Centre for Aviation (http://centreforaviation.com/profiles/airlines/bassaka-air)

[Luke SkyToddler]

... and I'll bet $100 that at least half of them will be gone again within a few months of starting up ... basically as long as it takes for them to run up some huge unpaid bills for fuel and maintenance and landing fees, and fleece a few wide eyed wannabes for a few hundred grand of "line training" ... then hello mysteriously one morning the office will be locked and the "management" will be nowhere to be seen :hmm:

[kwaiyai]

I like the way it say's Bassaka will start ops in Dec 2014. Last I heard still no AOC and 2 planes parked at PNH. I also hear SSCA not happy as they have been doing stuff without approval.

[pfvspnf]

There is no line training with SAS or ATRANS . Someone confirmed this to me

[Cris_Flores]

squarecrow...right on spot! Thanks.

Now its clear....

[kwaiyai]

I stand corrected Bassaka got it at last so good luck to them.

Luke with respect the way Cambodia Angkor is being run is not impressive at all either, take that any way you want.
Regard's

[Superstaraut]

Hello Marco,

Did you really met them?
Please tell us more about them..
Do you think they are really serious?
Thank you so much

[Greenlights]

If you are FO you have very few chances now to interest them.
VJ have more cadets than seats available now. PLus some FO pay for line training...so even with experience on type it is tough to move here unfortunately.

[pfvspnf]

There is no Line training at viet jet now only cadets and experienced FOs

[squarecrow]

How about VNA Starskate. With your time should be pretty fast for you.
They lost alot of crew recently of 321 I heard but not sure about latest on Upgrade time and deal.

[flying headbutt]

......afford line training! You gotta be kidding me :ugh: pay peanuts, get monkeys! :=

[pfvspnf]

Haha ! Amazing how these clowns appear out of no where! There is no training , viet jet have cadets in a pool who have been waiting for sometime . Most of the hiring has been for experienced airbus FOs.

[pilotchute]

Superaut,

People wanting too join VJ have the option for a while now to pay 30k USD'S to back door the way in. Usually 200 hour guys.

The company is seriously short of trainers and rostering is a sms every evening for your next day's schedule.

[pfvspnf]

Most airlines ask for line training ? You are utterly confused! You will be laughed and ridiculed when you tell your next employer you paid for line training.

For your info I've flown everything from dash 8s to medium jets so I'm not waiting around for anything. And how dare you poke fun at Nigeria! You are a waste of time..

This is a scam , go ahead and do it!

[FFRATS]

The problem is there will be managers (locals) getting a cut from any P2F program so there all for it! Corruption is a normal part of running a company here.

As far as what's not new is you pay for Upgrade Training currently. :ugh:

You are also asked to pay for a new Type rating if you change or you AC phased out regardless of years of service. e.g VN are asking for A350 or B787 endorsement costs, JPA went from B737 to A320 and charge for endorsement. (Some refused and left company)

If you come here as a high time FO thinking of quick Command, if you are offered be ready to pay for your training to do so!

I's not right, but P2F is used in some form already.

FFRATS

[Vatslav]

Hi all,
I am aware that this thread is old, but just wanted to know if someone got the experience with Atrans Aviation and Vietjet?

[JAMUP]

Hi

Has anobody dealt or done training with Alpha Flight training in Philipines and then joined Viet jet,?

[pilotmostafa]

does any one know anything about line training is it for real or not , and people that are saying we are talking shortcuts give me the long way i will do it but simply their is no other way

[Vatslav]

pilotmostafa - I can confirm that it is for real and I am planning to go there myself at end of jan. or beginning of feb. Doing my A320 TR now

[ReleasePT]

Hi,

I'd appreciate any info you might be able to provide. Could you please share?

Thanks.

[danirao]

I just wanted to know if any of you has ever heard about "ATRANS AVIATION" working with Vietjet Air? or BAA training.

[BAe 146-100]

Its real, but your gonna have to pay a small fortune to join.

[pfvspnf]

Pay them per flight? :O! haha!

All of this is pretty corrupt. Be careful

[Vatslav]

Yes unfortunately it does cost money to join, not a big surprise there.
I have joined Vietjet and did not had any problems with them so far. Furthermore I know 10-15 other cadets who went same way as me.
If anyone have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me.

[pfvspnf]

There are many who have had many many problems either ripped off or were on the ground for more than two years. Don't pay

[Falcon999]

@ Vatslav i have some questions and just sent you an email, looking forward to hear from you. Thank you

[HornetDrvr]

And why would you ever pay for a job??? They are supposed to be paying you, not the other way around...

[pfvspnf]

The program is cancelled but most captains have paid for the upgrade

[BAe 146-100]

VJ has a pilot shortage, and cadets are still in line training right now, VJ needs pilots to expand and that is not going to change.

[Vatslav]

Program is not cancelled. (pfvspnf - where do you get that information from?)

[pfvspnf]

Go ahead and convince others to get scammed, maybe you are recruiting people to take their money ? It's a corrupt airline . Lots of nasty stories on the inside

[yang919]

Yes unfortunately it does cost money to join, not a big surprise there.
I have joined Vietjet and did not had any problems with them so far. Furthermore I know 10-15 other cadets who went same way as me.
If anyone have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me.
Viet jet still looking for A320 Capt?any agent suggestion?

[yano]

Any info on payscale? Roster?

[Vatslav]

Go ahead and convince others to get scammed, maybe you are recruiting people to take their money ? It's a corrupt airline . Lots of nasty stories on the inside
I definitely don’t want anyone to be scammed, nor am I recruiting anyone.
However, what I am doing is that I am trying to help people that have questions.

I have been in their place and was asking same questions in this forum as well, without getting any clear answers, (you can search my thread/post history)

Now I am inside and been through all the process and only happy to help others.
I don’t' feel scammed; I got what I have paid for. Yes, it is P2F, but we all make our own choices in life. Some are lucky to get a job without P2F, I was not one of the lucky ones, so I went the P2F route and now flying a "shiny jet" on same conditions as all others.

So, I still don't really understand what you mean by "scam"? How are people scammed here and where do you have that information from? If it can be confirmed, then I would only be happy to share your information with others.

[johnjohncafe]

Hey Vatslav, I sent you a message a couple of weeks ago :)
Could you please get back to me ?
Thanks and I wish you the best of luck cause even if it's p2f, nothing is granted !

[Vatslav]

Hey Vatslav, I sent you a message a couple of weeks ago :)
Could you please get back to me ?
Thanks and I wish you the best of luck cause even if it's p2f, nothing is granted !
Heya johnjohncafe,
I just replied, hope you got it.

[BAe 146-100]

now flying a "shiny jet" on same conditions as all others.

Hahaahah, funny stuff.

How is that 500 hours on no salary treating you.

[Vatslav]

Hahaahah, funny stuff.

How is that 500 hours on no salary treating you.
That's for sure difficult the first 500 hours, I admit and agree with that :(
But I was aware of that condition before joining the program.

[erick12345]

Yes. I heard that Atrans Avi from my one of my friend.
What is true for cadet. If you are doing with Atrans Aviation agency, you will not get salary until 500hr. I mean your salary is 0 USD. And from 500hr to a years your salary will be 1,000usd or 2,000usd. And from a year to second year, your salay will be 2,500USD.

Quite a nice contract with Atrans Avi. Haha.
If you are a rich guy. Go for it.

You must buy food. Pay for trasportation and find out rent home. How? By own your money. Haha.

But i have no idea. Why???? Many people still wanna contract with Atrans Avi? If you want be a slave for Atrans, go for it.

[yellowcontrails]

A communist operation. You gotta be desperate to fly for those commie thugs.

The ex-PM of VietNam is part owner. How does a PM of one of the poorest countries in the world has money to open an airline? Crooks. Buyer beware!

[EuroFin]

Very corrupted!! cadets pay 95-125k to get right seat, Right seat pays up 60k to get left seat, after sucking locals D.., left seat pay +50k for TRI etc...all about the money and corruption. If you know airplane have two wings & engine below you are in! And good to know is ; Vietnamise invented aviation... Good luck to you all & be safe !!

[BAe 146-100]

^^

What he said.......

It is true that Vietjet has the most wealthy pilots in the world though. Just good luck getting out of there after you get your upgrade or TRI, because as far as I know no one managed to join somewhere decent.

[pfvspnf]

Certainly going to find a way to blacklist them , will get out the pen and paper pretty soon for my letters to the authorities , you can't have your instructors also paying for positions.

[izu]

Is Vietjet Air accept A320 rated first officers or they just prefer cadets ?

Thanks

[EuroFin]

Sure they will accept but depends how much money you have?
They don't make money on passagers they make their money
On pilots !! Safe flying and good Luck ;) new cars ordered already so welcome!

[pfvspnf]

What a terrible company name to have on your resume, pretty sure your cv will go straight to the trash the minute you try to leave

[erick12345]

Is there anyone who know information that Atrans Aviation agency has over/ finished from vietjet air for cadet programme?

One of my friend who is still waiting for cadet at vietjet air through Atrans Avi Agency told me, its over. No more. All contract was canceled.

Somebody know about this?

[pfvspnf]

Did your friend pay ?

[erick12345]

Did your friend pay ?


No. He just took a type rating. not pay yet. He is still waiting for Atrnas agency call.

Do you know much detail information?

[4runner]

There is nothing wrong with the aviation market right now. It is booming all over the world. Unfortunately there are a bunch of bottom feeders that still can't get jobs and are willing to P2F instead of working their way up from the bottom like the rest of the "real" pilots.

I knew you had to be an American...semper fi

[Dream_Job]

Hi Vatslav,

I sent you PM.

Thanks.

[Blackbird99]

hi Vatslav, I tried to send you a PM but for some reasons it is not working for me. I will be traveling to Vietnam in about 2 months. I have some questions about Atrans Aviation P2F, could you please send me an email so I can email you back my questions? my email is [email protected]

Thank you in advance for your information!

[CockpitSeeker]

First message of 2017. Happy new year guys I guess ;)

This is what someone showed me recently concerning the wikipedia article on p2f:
Hi, CockpitSeeker. In your Pay to fly article refer to Atrans Aviation, They are a scam in Vietnam and so many cadets here lost money badly with them, Many cadets trust them cause they appear into your article Can you please remove their name into the article so no one else will be cheated. I hope you can help people to do a good thing. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richk1consult (talk • contribs) 08:06, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Is this guy for real? Some of you went on the p2f wiki and thought this was some kind of shopping list? Get serious.
If any of you had troubles with Atrans, please contact me, I (truly) know some good lawyers that had to deal with p2f issues. And FFS people, STOP this BS already. Where do we have to shove you the warning sign so you understand this is all fraud?

[pfvspnf]

I don't understand ? What happened ? Did they get scammed ?

[CockpitSeeker]

Yes, if I am to trust the message I saw, many cadets in Vietnam lost money badly with Atrans Aviation and the pilots trusted Atrans because they appeared in the wikipedia page about pay-to-fly (!)

Common sense is a scarce commodity :ugh:

[pfvspnf]

Haha lmfao

[4runner]

Double Dong aviation is pleased to announce our commencement our cadet training program on behalf our client. We are currently recruiting for Airbus A320 series First Officer candidates. Our selection process involves a personality test, psychometric test and panel interview. Upon successful completion, you will be invited to attend simulator and line training on a self-sponsored scheme. Applicants should apply immediately as opportunities are limited for foreign pilots.

[squarecrow]

Great English for a start.

[pfvspnf]

What's truly shocking is that even experienced FOs pay and bribe to get into vietjet , they also pay the big bucks for command

[4runner]

Keep in mind that this thread shouldn't accuse or assume that all Vietjet boys paid for the pleasure. On the contrary. I have a good friend who is a current Vietjet Skipper and former left handed gear monkey that was hired and promoted based on merit. He's fuming at these shenanigans and the eurotards that blocked several of our experienced friends that were not hired, while 250 hour bribing wonder pilots got the gig instead. I've flown with many P2F guys over the last decade and with a few exceptions, none were worth a damned.

[azoff]

Please stay away from Atrans Aviation, This company is totally a scam they took our money and scare to kill us when we requested a money back. We are now working with the lawyer to sue Atrans but they are not legitimate here. It is totally a fraud, if you don't want into trouble be stay away.

Dear CockpitSeeker, can you please provide your email so we can contact you for help and We can warm peoples to stay away from trouble.

[pfvspnf]

I told you so....

[Flappo]

".... and promoted based on merit...."


Yeah, 18.000 merits......

[Vatslav]

Once again bull****!
I am still with ATRANS and 30+ new cadets just started last week.
Also, here is proof that Vietjet still work with ATRANS as their recruiting group:


http://i68.tinypic.com/29xslcx.jpg


Those who write this bull****, are probably other agencies "undercover" who really want to scam people, so future cadets will chose them instead of ATRANS.

If anyone interested in joining ATRANS, I will personally be happy to help you, just send me an email. To those who sent me mails in November last year, sorry I did not reply, I was not reading this forum and donøt know if you still need any information. If you do, please write me again and I will be happy to help as much as I can.

P.S. Sorry if I reply slowly, but I am not sitting on this forum all the time.

Have a great day

[pfvspnf]

Wow ! Looks like you are the agency owner . I just flew with someone who's son was scammed by VJ . Don't do it , don't pay . If you do get scammed it's your own fault

[Vatslav]

Wow ! Looks like you are the agency owner . I just flew with someone who's son was scammed by VJ . Don't do it , don't pay . If you do get scammed it's your own fault
I will just copy/paste what I wrote in the other thread 2 sec. ago:

Lol pfvspnf - I thought you would be the first one to reply :D
Do you even fly anywhere or just sitting on these forums crying about P2F?

Now, the question is.....as I asked you earlier many times, where is your proof???
If my mail means nothing, why does your words mean something lol?
However, if my mail means nothing, you can come by Ho Chi Minh and meet me as a real person, working for Vietjet - through ATRANS.
What else do you need for proof? lolz

Please give me your proof now. And not just some random guy from this forum, with 1-2 forum posts - that might as well be you :D

Have a nice day

[Vatslav]

Ohh yeah and here is a bit more proof for ya pfvspnf (but ptobably still means nothing for ya).

My schedule for the rest of this month:
http://i68.tinypic.com/9r6on6.jpg

[umop apisdn]

Wages:
$0
$0
$0
$0
$0
$0
They forgot that bit ;)

[pfvspnf]

Not to mention you are in the negative from what you paid, and your captain has probably paid to play as well

[BAe 146-100]

Vatslav nice way of advertising that your a sucker who paid 100,000 to sit on that seat, how is your pay slip doing

[Vatslav]

BAe 146-100 - As I mentioned earlier, call me what you want, sucker, punk, what ever lol :)
And no, I am not advertising, but helping guys who have questions about ATRANS. Gee, that I also mentioned before I believe.

In any case, sure I am a sucker, I paid and do what I love now. Was it worth it? Yes. My pay slip? As it was stated in the contract.
Now what? You will be crying over others that want to be "suckers"? What is it to you lol? :-D

Some people buy cars, boats, etc. that cost much more, you also go to them and call them suckers? Lolz.
Sounds more like a kid, that cant get his toys and start calling others names ;)

Last but not least....what is your point in this post? I am explaning and answering questions about Atrans from own experience. You?

[BAe 146-100]

Im sitting in that same seat for more money then you kid and i didnt pay half as much

[Vatslav]

Im sitting in that same seat for more money then you kid and i didnt pay half as much
Congrats, we are happy for you. Well done.
Now, let me ask you again, how does that help when someone asking about ATRANS and Vietjet? What all this forum thread is about if you have not noticed and not about you lol.

But once again, very happy on your behalf lolz

[4runner]

BAe 146-100 - As I mentioned earlier, call me what you want, sucker, punk, what ever lol :)
And no, I am not advertising, but helping guys who have questions about ATRANS. Gee, that I also mentioned before I believe.

In any case, sure I am a sucker, I paid and do what I love now. Was it worth it? Yes. My pay slip? As it was stated in the contract.
Now what? You will be crying over others that want to be "suckers"? What is it to you lol? :-D

Some people buy cars, boats, etc. that cost much more, you also go to them and call them suckers? Lolz.
Sounds more like a kid, that cant get his toys and start calling others names ;)

Last but not least....what is your point in this post? I am explaning and answering questions about Atrans from own experience. You?

You're a sucker because you paid for a position rather than earned it. You can rationalize it however you wish. P2F doesn't take the best applicant, just the one with the finances to fund their "training". You are lowering the bar for an entire industry. I do not respect you as a pilot or a person.

[Vatslav]

Ok.
But I am not here to ask or earn for your respect, nor do I really care about it. Sorry if it hurt your feelings? Also, nowhere have I ever stated that I was best/better applicant?
Did you even read what I replied earlier about suckers, punks, and so on? Once again I dont understand the purpose of your reply 4runner?

Another useless post in my opinion....

I will be happy to answer questions regarding Atrans and Vietjet, but not going to waste more time replying on useless post like this one.

Have a beautiful day all....both suckers and non-suckers :)))

[BAe 146-100]

That is the very point, your only in that seat because you bended over and got housed by atrans, vj are famous for taking anybody who pays, no quality control there, enjoy flying your 320

[Vatslav]

I still dont see how you contribute here Bae 146-100?
What is it to YOU, what I am doing??? Obviously you gotta be jalous. If you were not, you would care less. Like I really dont care where you fly, on what A/C and where, cause I am happy where I am ;)
But ok thanks, I am enjoying and will continue to do so. Hope you are enjoying too.
Ohh and latest news is that VJC is expanding to Europe and rest of Asia drain ;)

Have a beautiful day Sir. ;)

[BAe 146-100]

737s are coming too.... yes really

Lolz!!!! 😂😂😂

[DirtyProp]

Now, let me ask you again, how does that help when someone asking about ATRANS and Vietjet? What all this forum thread is about if you have not noticed and not about you lol.



Telling them that they will scam you and screw you royally is not a good enough reason, Captain Sucker?
Not everyone is willing to prostitute himself like you did. And you know why they keep doing it? Because there are plenty of suckers like you, willing to be scammed and screwed in order to sit on that big, shiny jet that you love so much.
I guess you love it more than your self-respect.

What is it to YOU, what I am doing??? Obviously you gotta be jalous. If you were not, you would care less.
You are lowering the standards for everyone else in the industry, newcomers and veterans as well. But I guess you don't even know what "standards" are.
Jealous of a sucker? We pity you.

[Vatslav]

Very easy to answer on this.

1. I don't feel scammed at all. Everything was as promised, no surprises.
2. No need to pity me, I am happy with what I have.

But thanks :)

On a side note…..The standards you are talking about are long gone. What stone have you been hiding under Sir?
I was applying in the “normal” way, for about 2 years, been FI for a year, but I am not getting any younger as you probably know.
So naturally, I jumped on the train, before THAT was too late.

Otherwise, I would still be sitting and doing nothing. Perhaps crying on this forum - who knows. (no offence)
I know many people who gave up. You suggest I do the same?? Or how can you help the “industry” and get the standards higher?
Then you have to get everyone to stop paying for TR, LT and even the education it self - you honestly belive that will ever happend??

Wake up buddy (notice I don't call you a crying sucker); it will never be what it was before, sorry to break the news to you.

have a great day :)

Telling them that they will scam you and screw you royally is not a good enough reason, Captain Sucker?
Not everyone is willing to prostitute himself like you did. And you know why they keep doing it? Because there are plenty of suckers like you, willing to be scammed and screwed in order to sit on that big, shiny jet that you love so much.
I guess you love it more than your self-respect.


You are lowering the standards for everyone else in the industry, newcomers and veterans as well. But I guess you don't even know what "standards" are.
Jealous of a sucker? We pity you.

[DirtyProp]

1. I don't feel scammed at all. Everything was as promised, no surprises.
2. No need to pity me, I am happy with what I have.

Happy to be scammed then.
Because paying a ludicrous amount of money in order to get a job is perfectly fine - as long as they tell you in advance.
Great, just shows how high your standards are.

Otherwise, I would still be sitting and doing nothing. Perhaps crying on this forum - who knows. (no offence)
I know many people who gave up. You suggest I do the same?? Or how can you help the “industry” and get the standards higher?

Stop prostituting yourself - simple as that.
But I guess you love that big, shiny jet too much.


Then you have to get everyone to stop paying for TR, LT and even the education it self - you honestly belive that will ever happend??

Considering how happy you are to be taken advantage of (being a sucker) and how many suckers are out there no, I don't think it will happen.
But it won't stop me or others to call you for what you really are: a sucker.
Enjoy your so-called job, Capt. Sucker.

[Ting3327]

I agreed that everyone should have their own way to chase their dream and should not saying people Lowering the standard.

Rather than doing nothing and sit down watching people flying is a very hard time.

Therefore if there is a chance to get into the industry, I will go for it. :)

[zzt0117]

two of my friends(same with me fresh graduated pilots)just finished the A320 type rating conversion in philippines. they found an agent, paid almost 110k USD
entered viejet as cadet pilot(the payment can guarantee them enter the vietjet airline as cadet).
I dont know if it is worth to pay such a huge amount to get
a job.....they said vietjet has good pay for FO, they can get the sum of money back in 2 years.
maybe pay2fly is a choice for low hrs fresh pilot....
but i dont have so much money.....lol

[Droste]

two of my friends(same with me fresh graduated pilots)just finished the A320 type rating conversion in philippines. they found an agent, paid almost 110k USD
entered viejet as cadet pilot(the payment can guarantee them enter the vietjet airline as cadet).
I dont know if it is worth to pay such a huge amount to get
a job.....they said vietjet has good pay for FO, they can get the sum of money back in 2 years.
maybe pay2fly is a choice for low hrs fresh pilot....
but i dont have so much money.....lol
I don't like to share much things in PPRuNe.

Please send me private message with your WeChat or Line ID. Thank you!

[profoundmemory]

I don't like to share much things in PPRuNe.

Please send me private message with your WeChat or Line ID. Thank you!

please add me wc profoundmemory.

[pfvspnf]

Your TRI would have paid to teach you how to fly the a320 , fantastic

[Intruder One]

I cant really promote or discourage guys who are paying to fly.If I could have skipped years of CFI work crappy single and ME flying and years at regionals just by paying..maybe ?? You can waste allot of years trying to get to large aircraft,its tough no doubt.Well unless your daddy works at United but that's true anywhere.
But this post is really for DEC joining.Be sure of what you're getting into.A few facts...base is $4600,you aint flying that's all you get.Go to ground school...$0..sim check every 6 months(takes 2 to 3 days)..$0...visa expires,go get it yourself..$0.
Medical..travel to Hanoi for this on your time...$0.Basically anything other than your butt in that seat..$0.When you are hired initially if a ground school is held up ..sim delayed..line check delayed you get nothing and I mean nothing.That $4600 will not start until checked to the line.Jetstar appears to be the best deal in Vietnam,at least its a decent salary whether your working or not.
FYI....

[RTBCXP]

Hi

Sorry if my email are not appropriate.

I'm just graduated from flight school, and hold ICAO CPL/IR/ME License. Now I'm looking for Line Training Program and job opportunity after that.

Is there any guy who had experience with LT program?

[momo95]

Hello guys,

does anyone know what the situation with vietjet is? are they currently hiring FOs with 500hrs or even less?

Also im trying to find details on the pay but can't, does anyone have the figures or a link?

thanks

[Fly1414]

Hi

latest update about vietjet ?

[pfvspnf]

Everyone has to pay for everything

Extremely corrupt

Everyone knows now, VJ people are not going to get employment anywhere else

[Greenlights]

this is an email that a friend received directly from VJC. Dunno about transaviation. :

Line training cost: 50,000 USD (Paid by cadet before taking SIM check) -Line training and base training fees will be paid by cadet and VietJet will pay for SIM screening and admin fees.
-Contract will be followed the company policy at the time of reviewing.
-The Staff will be re-evaluated based on company's evaluation after ending the first working year.
-After evaluating the First working year, if the staff does not meet the company's standard evaluation, the staff will be terminated the contract and must reimburse the costs (if any).
-75% of FO’s salary (included basic salary, flying hour allowance and sector allowance) followed as Vietjet’s pay scale until reaching 500hrs on A 320.
-After reaching 500 flying hours on A 320 receive 100% of FO’s salary.

[pfvspnf]

The minute I see vietjet on a cv your resume is going straight in the bin .

[Jappilot1995]

The minute I see vietjet on a cv your resume is going straight in the bin .

I was wondering why you know very well about Vietjet.
I'm just curious.

[1234578]

two of my friends(same with me fresh graduated pilots)just finished the A320 type rating conversion in philippines. they found an agent, paid almost 110k USD
entered viejet as cadet pilot(the payment can guarantee them enter the vietjet airline as cadet).
I dont know if it is worth to pay such a huge amount to get
a job.....they said vietjet has good pay for FO, they can get the sum of money back in 2 years.
maybe pay2fly is a choice for low hrs fresh pilot....
but i dont have so much money.....lol

Hi did your friends successfully get into vietjet? And is it possible if you could give me the name of this company thanks.

[BAe 146-100]

Knowing the spineless chief pilot will help too.

[pfvspnf]

The incidents that they have is also crazy

[JJ320]

Hi Greenlight,
Did you friend join the Vietjet?

[donovan333]

Hi guys!

I just resigned from vietjet.
It was the worst company in my carrer.
If you are looking for a job as a captain please consider that company with its people as the last option.
Terrible.
It doesn't apply to pilots working for vietjet. It only applies to vietjet management in all levels.

All the Best!

[fatbus]

What did management do to you? Or not do?

[topoftheloop]

Hello, I am looking for an A320 Type Rating sim partner in SE Asia. PM please for details.

[machngm]

Good afternoon everyone i am new here and considering joining a company in vietnam to be closer to my wifes country in asia, i am in my mid 50”s here and was wondering how are the medicals in vietnam? Are they as strict as in china? Your feed back is truly appreciated. I am still looking at options but would appreciate your knowledge on this subject, thank you again

[FlexToga]

Good afternoon everyone i am new here and considering joining a company in vietnam to be closer to my wifes country in asia, i am in my mid 50”s here and was wondering how are the medicals in vietnam? Are they as strict as in china? Your feed back is truly appreciated. I am still looking at options but would appreciate your knowledge on this subject, thank you again


Medicals in Vietnam are quiet straight forward, simple and without any strange checks...

Vietnam still is a good place to work IMO.

Cheers