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John Hill
20th Apr 2014, 08:38
Russia writes off debt.

Russia writes off 90 per cent of North Korean debt, expected to build gas pipeline.......

............Russia's parliament has agreed to write off about $10 billion of North Korea's Soviet-era debt, in a deal expected to facilitate the building of a gas pipeline to South Korea across the reclusive state.

The State Duma lower house in Moscow on Friday ratified a 2012 agreement to excuse the bulk of North Korea's debt.

It said the total debt stood at $10.96 billion as of September 17, 2012.

The rest of the debt - $1.09 billion - would be redeemed during the next 20 years, to be paid in equal instalments every six months.

Russia appears to be another country prepared to try to move forward following the path of constructive and positive engagement with North Korea.

tony draper
20th Apr 2014, 08:48
Hmmm, not sure those south Koreans have thought this through.:uhoh:

Keef
20th Apr 2014, 09:03
When you realise NK has neither inclination nor ability to pay, you can't find a pretext to invade, and you want an outlet for your production that's losing market share in its primary market, what else do you do?

He's a shrewd rogue, that Putin.

VP959
20th Apr 2014, 09:08
Russia appears to be another country prepared to try to move forward following the path of constructive and positive engagement with North Korea.

I assume there's supposed to be a "tongue-in-cheek" emoticon after this.

What is transparent here is that Russia needs to sell gas, one of its major exports. It needs the income from selling gas, and, given the return to Soviet-style government within Russia it probably also sees some political advantage in aligning itself with a state that is still run along extreme Soviet communist principals.

Writing off this massive ancient debt (which North Korea is in no position to repay, anyway) kills several birds with one stone for Putin's government. It builds a better relationship with North Korea, it allows Russia to expand its gas export business and it makes South Korea (one of the fastest growing economies in that region) dependent on both Russia and North Korea, giving Russia a very powerful political and economic lever (not dissimilar to the levers Russia uses to influence Germany and the Ukraine).

Mark Cumberland
20th Apr 2014, 09:30
I would say that this is more about Russia earning some very needed foreign currency and that it would be unlikely that North Korea could pay off it's debt in any case.

So Russia knows this and is prepared to right off the debt knowing that they will earn good money instead and not any inherent concept of helping North Korea.

How coy would it be for the South Koreans to know that someone over the border could close a valve if it suits them at any time?

John Hill
20th Apr 2014, 09:55
I am just looking forward to the day I can buy a train ticket from Seoul to Edinburgh.

Meanwhile I dont really care what Putin's motives might be but I do know that for every country that has any relationship with North Korea the less chance there is of everything turning to custard.

ORAC
20th Apr 2014, 10:06
I am just looking forward to the day I can buy a train ticket from Seoul to Edinburgh. Getting permission to build a line through such a left wing, socialist country is very hard to arrange on a commercial basis, so I wouldn't hold your breath.

North Korea might prove difficult to negotiate with as well.....

tony draper
20th Apr 2014, 10:12
I would advise Ivan not to fit a stop cock in N/Korea.:uhoh:

cavortingcheetah
20th Apr 2014, 10:15
One suspects that the pipeline will be built with slave labour thereby adding a little piquancy to the entry of South Korea into the energetic claws of the bear.

mixture
20th Apr 2014, 10:15
ORAC,

You may wish to Google Gyeongui Railroad Line and Dorasan Station. :cool:

John Hill
20th Apr 2014, 10:16
I can already buy a train ticket from Pyongyang to Edinburgh.

ORAC
20th Apr 2014, 10:26
I can already buy a ticket to the moon (http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/golden-spike-space-tourism-company-to-the-moon/2012/12/06/52eedcc8-3fc3-11e2-ae43-cf491b837f7b_story.html). :p

onetrack
20th Apr 2014, 12:05
If NK can't pay its outstanding, Soviet-era debt .. how is Russia expecting to get paid for all the gas it sells to NK? :confused:

Oh, hang on .. NK has all these gulags .. Russia now gets cheap labour for its factories, then .. instead of payment in hard currency. :suspect: :ooh:

VP959
20th Apr 2014, 12:16
If NK can't pay its outstanding, Soviet-era debt .. how is Russia expecting to get paid for all the gas it sells to NK?

Oh, hang on .. NK has all these gulags .. Russia now gets cheap labour for its factories, then .. instead of payment in hard currency.

The pipe line is feeding SOUTH Korea.............

G-CPTN
20th Apr 2014, 13:15
The pipe line is feeding SOUTH Korea.
That is because North Korea has no need for gas (or electricity) . . .

Fareastdriver
20th Apr 2014, 14:27
North Korea wont turn off the tap even if it is built. They will get commision on every cubit foot that goes though and they are not going to kill that cash cow.
It must be remembered that thoughout the Mao regime in Peoples Republic Hong Kong was, and still is, continuously supplied with water by China.

Dushan
20th Apr 2014, 14:44
I assume there's supposed to be a "tongue-in-cheek" emoticon after this.



Not when John Hill talks about his idolized country and its virtues.

Dushan
20th Apr 2014, 14:47
I am just looking forward to the day I can buy a train ticket from Seoul to Edinburgh.

Meanwhile I dont really care what Putin's motives might be but I do know that for every country that has any relationship with North Korea the less chance there is of everything turning to custard.

Why, are you afraid of flying?

As for "every country", the Soviets, err, Russians always had a good relationship with the Norks. No change here, whatsoever.

Oh, and those pesky little apostrophes. Did you lose them, again? I thought chuks gave you a whole bag full of them.

Toadstool
20th Apr 2014, 14:53
I thought chuks heve you a whole bag full of them.

Karma works quick around here.

Does Chuks also have a bag full of how to write correct English?:D

Apologies though. I just love it when someone has a little snipe at someone else about their Grammar/Spelling and, in doing so, also makes an error.

Dushan
20th Apr 2014, 15:02
Toad, big difference of deliberately not using the apostrophe in words like "don't" and being caught by autocorrect...

I fixed mine. Let's see what John does?

VFD
20th Apr 2014, 15:51
If you consider Putin's propensity of taking control of the governments of the countries that Russian natural gas lines transition. This might not be a good option for the NK leadership.


Just a thought.


VFD

racedo
20th Apr 2014, 15:58
Read about this last year and found Russia had written of massive amounts of debt owed by countries to former Soviet Union.

These include quiet a few old Warsaw pact countries who while abusing Russia on one hand were also desperately asking for help to write off debt. Russia did its part while politicians in the Debtor countries refused to tell what really happened. Contrast this with some of the Vuture capitalisim of the west.

StressFree
20th Apr 2014, 17:35
John Hill,

Please don't buy a ticket to Edinburgh, no-one wants dross like you in the UK.........:*

perthsaint
20th Apr 2014, 17:50
Both rude and inaccurate, Stressfree:=

Did someone break your Easter egg?

cockney steve
20th Apr 2014, 19:05
Perhaps Mr. Putin will convince Kim Yong Ill (or whatever the fat little toad is called)
that Russia has rented the entire country from him and not just the passage of the pipeline.
OTOH, he might decide the blessed one needs a new haircut and order everything above shoulder level to be removed :}

John Hill
20th Apr 2014, 21:47
Both rude and inaccurate, Stressfree
But he did say 'please'!:p

rh200
21st Apr 2014, 00:30
If you consider Putin's propensity of taking control of the governments of the countries that Russian natural gas lines transition. This might not be a good option for the NK leadership.

I think the Chinese might have a thing or two to say about that, and I'm betting its a bit more of a stern response than Obama's. Unless they are so pissed off with NK and are wiping their hands of them.:)

What all of you are forgetting, is the really big picture, the question that should be on every ones mind. Is Putin going to get a Toupee so he can have a hairstyle like Kimmy, or is kimmy going to get shaved and start running around with no shirt on and wrestling baby bears.:p

500N
21st Apr 2014, 00:35
"Unless they are so pissed off with NK and are wiping their hands of them.:)"

China will never be so pissed off with NK that it would let a super power get control with a border that abuts China.

rh200
21st Apr 2014, 00:47
China will never be so pissed off with NK that it would let a super power get control with a border that abuts China.

Of course, though I thought we where talking about Russia, is there a superpower involved? (Apart from the bald ones ego):E

500N
21st Apr 2014, 00:53
Compared to all but the US and China, Russia is still a super power compared to most other countries !

And even if it wasn't, you still wouldn't want them on your doorstep !

John Hill
21st Apr 2014, 00:58
And even if it wasn't, you still wouldn't want them on your doorstep !
China does have a border with Russia.

The pipeline from Russia to Korea(s) would not have to go via China.

rh200
21st Apr 2014, 01:46
Compared to all but the US and China, Russia is still a super power compared to most other countries !

Bit early for you is it 500N:p I'm fishing and taking the Piss:E.

onetrack
21st Apr 2014, 01:53
Does anyone really believe that the South Koreans are going to become reliant on a gas pipeline that has even the slightest chance of being controlled by NK?? :rolleyes:
Does anyone really believe that a pipeline going to SK from Russia, isn't going to be tapped by NK on a regular, highly-surreptitious basis, so they can freeload off SK?? :suspect:

This scheme is nothing more than a pipedream, with a dozen insurmountable obstacles that will remain, while the Fat Wun and the NK military still rule NK.

A Pipe Dream? Russia, North and South Korea's Gas Pipeline Quest | The Diplomat (http://thediplomat.com/2012/10/russias-pipeline-dreams-in-korea/)

VFD
21st Apr 2014, 02:10
I think the Chinese might have a thing or two to say about that, and I'm betting its a bit more of a stern response than Obama's. Unless they are so pissed off with NK and are wiping their hands of them.:)
Obviously, Putin has played his next card.
I suspect this will get a much more interesting.


VFD

John Hill
21st Apr 2014, 04:56
This scheme is nothing more than a pipedream

Purrrlease!

rh200
21st Apr 2014, 07:34
Does anyone really believe that the South Koreans are going to become reliant on a gas pipeline that has even the slightest chance of being controlled by NK??

Not really, but it could be a nice way to have alternative supplies, as long as you don't rely on them.

tony draper
21st Apr 2014, 07:36
Careful what you watch,that RT has very effective propaganda,I find myself rooting for Putin more and more often now.
:E

Fareastdriver
21st Apr 2014, 10:05
China does have a border with Russia.

Your're dead right they do and there is an awful lot of unfinished business there. A considerable part of the PLA is beased up in the northwest owing to the frequent punchups over a few aquare kilometres of territory in the past.

500N
21st Apr 2014, 10:12
I know they have a border.

I meant another one.

MG23
21st Apr 2014, 19:36
Does anyone really believe that the South Koreans are going to become reliant on a gas pipeline that has even the slightest chance of being controlled by NK?? :rolleyes:

Would anyone really believe the EU would let its energy supply be controlled by Russia?

As for China, they're just waiting for the last Russians to die off before they move in.

500N
21st Apr 2014, 20:06
"Would anyone really believe the EU would let its energy supply be controlled by Russia ?"

With the way the EU thinks, yes. They would think that everything is fluffy luvvy and everyone loves each other and no one would do harm to each other and Russia wouldn't dream of turning off the gas, especially during winter :rolleyes: :ugh:


Whereas Putin would have his hands on the balls and squeeze at the most appropriate time.
And one of the few that has the "balls" to stand up to Putin would be Angela Merkel :O

Lonewolf_50
21st Apr 2014, 20:21
I'd guess that Putin wold make an exception in her case and just squeeze her tits. Win win. :bored:

500N
21st Apr 2014, 20:26
I don't think he is game, she'd kick him in the nuts.

Merkel is one of the few that would have his measure !

tony draper
21st Apr 2014, 20:38
She's from E Germany,she's probably one of his KGB sleepers.:rolleyes:

500N
21st Apr 2014, 20:54
I was thinking of her East German back ground when I wrote that.

Probably why she doesn't cow tow to anyone.

Lonewolf_50
21st Apr 2014, 20:56
She'll melt like a horny cheerleader as soon as he takes of his shirt, and shows her the size of his natural gas pipeline ... :p

500N
21st Apr 2014, 21:05
:D:D:D:D:D

Thanks, I needed a good laugh :ok: :O

And when she takes off her shirt, Putin will be glad he has kept up his weight lifting !

chuks
22nd Apr 2014, 06:25
There are some unredeemed Czarist-era Russian railroad bonds available for sale, but just as examples of high-quality engraving. If Vladimir really wanted to impress us, he could redeem those, instead of forgiving debts that are never going to be repaid anyway.

It will be interesting to see if North Korea can come up with any repayments at all, unless the Russkis are happy to take cash, dodgy $100 bills.

The Third World is lousy with Russian junk that was sold on the never-never. Of course there's plenty of ours dotting various landscapes as well.

Could we call this "a marriage made in heaven," Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un, with the banns having been read by our very own John Hill? It all seems a bit far-fetched, somehow, a gas pipeline across North Korea, but then we did have Kim Jong Un presented to us as a progressive so, "Why not?"

It's an interesting idea, Putin being under pressure to find new markets for his gas. Here in western Europe there's talk of trying to find alternate sources of supply, having seen just how dependable Putin really can be, as a trading partner. Any deal involving North Korea must hint at desperation, though, and I don't think things have gone that far. Still, what do I know, especially since this is insider information we have been given?

Cacophonix
22nd Apr 2014, 15:30
and shows her the size of his natural gas pipeline ... :p


Reminds me of that old African joke about that girl Sahara Pipeline (or Sarah Pippilini) being laid by a thousand men...

damn that is such a bad joke...!

Caco