Low cost regional pilots to fly Swiss LH!

[Daneflyer]

Reports: Low-cost regional pilots considered for Swiss Boeing 777-300ER fleet | Labor content from ATWOnline (http://atwonline.com/labor/reports-low-cost-regional-pilots-considered-swiss-boeing-777-300er-fleet)

This is not good news for any LH pilot in Europe. Will BA, LH etc be next??
:sad:

[captjns]

Its been going on for years in the US with the advent of the regional carriers. The unions and their representation in Europe appear to be stronger than their US counterparts. Take your stand against management. Thwart off the attempts by management of European carriers in establishing such schemes. Succeed where the US unions failed.

[yoland]

Looks like Crossair/Swiss European are back to save Swiss yet again.:D

[hoox]

Well, the LH guys at swiss pretty much screwed themselves (as well as the SH guys...).
The management recently tried to unite the SH and LH pilot groups, effectively giving all of them the way better LH contract. The only thing LHs had to give were 2 variable off-days a year.

They rejected the new contract, and the management now reacts in a way any halfway smart person could figure out they would.

[Winnerhofer]

LH have already castrated ex-SR's salaries and perks by 30%.
LX crews work more than LH and now the latter really wants LX to be an all-LCC like 4U.
Regional rejects to fly B77W with no basic B739 or A320 skills!!
This is like going from a moped to an F1!
LH are themselves in dire merde and only survives by way of generous subsidies à l'AF.
QF are also guilty of the same misguided approach in lowering standards of safety and pay to regional standards.

[fatbus]

You must be a star pilot

[speed_alive_rotate]

WOW! Real team spirit in the company when a pilot is referring to their fellow pilots as "Regional rejects ".

[wondering]

I reckon Winnerhofer represents the general view a large percentage of LH mainline pilots have regarding their fellow 'Team Lufthansa/Lufthansa Regional' pilots. Nothing really new. :yuk:

Good luck to the LX pilots moving to the 777. :ok:

[Iver]

Winnerhofer states:


"LH have already castrated ex-SR's salaries and perks by 30%. LX crews work more than LH and now the latter really wants LX to be an all-LCC like 4U. Regional rejects to fly B77W with no basic B739 or A320 skills!! This is like going from a moped to an F1! LH are themselves in dire merde and only survives by way of generous subsidies à l'AF. QF are also guilty of the same misguided approach in lowering standards of safety and pay to regional standards. "




Sorry, but that is an absolute ridiculous statement above. If you can reliably land an Avro at LCY on a windy/rainy day I am sure that flying a 777 to Bangkok would not be so taxing if you are given appropriate type and international flying training... Regional rejects? Really? From what I have been told, the Swiss Regional pilots have the option of continuing on to Swiss after a set number of years flying the Avro. Are they rejects for starting at Swiss Regional?


Look, I think this Swiss Regional/Swiss situation, like the Austrian/Tyrolean situation, is ridiculous and should be avoided at all costs because of the precedent set for all other Euro pilots. But that provocative statement above is not professional or appropriate. I have met several regional pilots with 20,000+ hours on RJs who prefer the lifestyle and home-basing of regional flying - they are not "rejects".

[captplaystation]

Bit of Swiss "Weiner Waving" there, suggesting a FBW 777 is somehow more difficult to fly than 5 APU's.

Merely a matter of "International/LH Route Training" I would suggest.

[TheBigFella]

To answer the question at the top of this thread I think it is probably a while off yet before someone like BA was to use its 'regional' arm of BA CityFlyer to crew its mainline operation. I definitely think it would like to as subsidiaries/regional arms are always a much lower cost base. BA CityFlyer has proved that it can make money flying out of LCY which is subject to some harsh restrictions such as landing and weather minima not to mention it is shut most of the weekend. However, as long as the regional arm/subsidiary continues to grow and make money it will become a larger and larger threat to the Ts and Cs of the pilots of its parent carrier. Swiss LH pilots missed a good chance to cement Ts and Cs across the whole of their airline - a united workforce working for their common good. The fact now that the Avro pilots probably feel 'rejected' by their colleagues at LH Swiss has no doubt galvanised them to say 'two fingers to you LH lot' and they won't give a toss if they replace some LH pilot in the near future. However, that would not make it a pleasant place to work - a divided workforce on an 'A' scale and 'B' scale salary. The management would love it - an easy way to get rid of highly paid LH pilots over the long term. Perhaps BA pilots would consider bringing their 'regional rejects' in one day; before it becomes too late.

[Mister Geezer]

Regional rejects to fly B77W with no basic B739 or A320 skills!!
This is like going from a moped to an F1!

A bit of an overstatement there! I went from a 146 (note 146 and not an RJ!) to a 777 and passed the course in the allotted timeframe with no problems.

Bit of Swiss "Weiner Waving" there, suggesting a FBW 777 is somehow more difficult to fly than 5 APU's.

Merely a matter of "International/LH Route Training" I would suggest.

The 777 is no more demanding to fly/operate when compared to the RJ. It's just different.

[Winnerhofer]

The Swiss strife started even before SR went bankrupt when SR began outsouring MRO to subrate third-parties instead of SR Technnics, crews knew that they would be next for cuts.
When LX management took over SR, this was the case of class war for they had envied the gilded pay whilst LX earned crisps.
The merging of crews after 2002 proved that tensions have not settled and worsened by bloody-minded LH CEOs who were hell-bent to take the SR out of SR!
A lot of SR crews jumped shipped and hopped onto U2.
So what LH is doing is making LX into a LCC by forcing their non-regional crews to thrown in the towel and allowing regional crews to man the brand-spanking new B77W exclusively even though they will be earning up to 50% less than their A330/A340 counterparts.

[seat 0A]

As always, the lack of a "scope clause" in European collective labour agreements is biting pilots in the tail.
Somebody here stated that the European unions seem stronger than their US counterparts? I don't believe so.
At KLM the regional pilots were integrated into the mainline seniority and conditions. Almost two decades ago. Painful operation at first, but the constant pressure of regional pilots flying ever more and bigger planes is now history.

Something to think about in the Alps perhaps?

[Winnerhofer]

The Swiss rise early but wake up late...
SR's downfall began after the rejected referundum in Dec 1992 to join a free economic area with EU.