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probes
18th Apr 2014, 07:17
KIDS REACT TO WALKMANS (Portable Cassette Players) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk_vV-JRZ6E#t=301)

(and you'll find more KIDS REACT... to feel smug? :E)

sitigeltfel
18th Apr 2014, 07:32
A friends three year old granddaughter tries to make the pages in magazines move by scanning her finger over them, just like on her mums iPad.

arcniz
19th Apr 2014, 15:24
Conformity Cults are big among kids and teens -- a chance to be one with the junior version of Ausverkauf Zeitgeist, and thus with-it and included-in by virtue of one or another irresistable gadget that seems so essential for the moment, thus hard to pass.

Play this forward in incremental decade steps for the time it takes to grow up, find a job, find a mate, settle into living somewhere, then maybe upgrade that a time or two -- and the cohort has mostly all the same things, now perceived as mostly quaint and declasse, but still precious.

Later, a few auctions or yard-sales on, they'll be lighter but no wiser.. all enviously wanting the same brand of in-head sound-systems and thought-driven house-bots to watch over their quieting years.

Hrrrumpf.

probes
19th Apr 2014, 15:31
I was wondering if there will be a day when young people don't know how to open doors (or that it can actually be done manually). :}
How many of you have bumped into a glass door, because you assume it's automatic? I nearly have :p.

Groundgripper
19th Apr 2014, 16:01
In my case it's usually because I have forgotten that it isn't open. :ugh:

The patio door out of my study into the conservatory now has a strip of translucent Scotch tape across it at eye level height to remind me. (Actually it's got two, one at my eye level and one, somewhat lower, at my wifes' because she's just as likely to forget as I am).

GG

500N
19th Apr 2014, 18:15
Cars that don't have electric windows seem to confuse young kids.

A A Gruntpuddock
19th Apr 2014, 18:50
I always wanted one of these - http://grouchyoldcripple.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/blondco-300x281.jpg

Capetonian
19th Apr 2014, 18:58
Walked into a glass door once, it was sliding door but the mechanism had broken, I just assumed it would.

This afternoon, out driving, went to refuel the car, somewhere I'd never been before. Diesel. Nozzle wouldn't fit into the hole Checked to make sure it was diesel not petrol. Correct. Nozzle didn't seem distorted or anything ....... turns out the pump was for lorries ...... no indication of that, and when I when inside to ask they said it's the same fuel ........ huh! I would have expected cheaper commercial fuel for lorries but apparently not. Bizarre.

Toadstool
19th Apr 2014, 21:51
How many of you have bumped into a glass door, because you assume it's automatic? I nearly have .

Seems to be a common theme. It happened to me also, but in front of a lot of people. I didn't notice them at first though, as it was the most exquisite pain I have ever felt. I think every part of the front of my body hit the window at the exact same time.

Worse than childbirth. Fact!

Sorry, thread drift. Back to technology.

onetrack
19th Apr 2014, 23:58
'Tis even more embarrassing to run through a glass panel, mistaking it for the door, when you're a handbag snatcher ... :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytoorIN9_aU

llondel
20th Apr 2014, 00:09
Cars that don't have electric windows seem to confuse young kids.

In the US it's cars with a clutch pedal. Apologies if it was on here, but I do remember reading somewhere about an attempted carjacking where the would-be thief had no idea how to drive an expensive sports car with manual transmission.

Looking through Google, it appears to be more common than one might think, even to the New York Times noting that manual transmission is a useful anti-theft device.

WAC
20th Apr 2014, 00:48
The bigger nozzle for trucks is a high flow pump.... If you are going to put on over a thousand litres at a time, it helps to have a bit larger flow rate..... And the twisty filler pipes of light vehicles can't handle the higher flow without spashback, hence the difference.

Cacophonix
20th Apr 2014, 05:38
It is not just kids that seem to be flummoxed by yesterday's technology. In truth we all are evolving (or regressing, you take your pick) at a rapid rate and great swathes of technical skills that once were de rigueur are now obsolete if not fast becoming so...

What price typists and typewriters? Shame about all those aircraft navigation officers and the flight engineers. When did you last use your sextant and come on (if you are a pilot) when did you really last use your wiz wheel in earnest if it wasn't to bamboozle some young upstart and show him or her who was really boss?

The ability to technically evolve quickly is a strength but also presents the potential for an even greater catastrophe if we entirely forget those skills of yore!

Caco

500N
20th Apr 2014, 06:06
I honestly wonder how many would know how to use a compass,
protractor, map and do any sort of manual navigation now.

A few younger outdoors type might now but I feel the art is being lost.

Krystal n chips
20th Apr 2014, 06:52
" This afternoon, out driving, went to refuel the car, somewhere I'd never been before.

I know, it's always a dilemma when you visit a new location in the, presumably, UK and have to replenish your car / vehicle with fuel....it's easy to become confused therefore with these outlets known as petrol stations...it's not as if they all look the same for example.


Diesel. Nozzle wouldn't fit into the hole Checked to make sure it was diesel not petrol. Correct. Nozzle didn't seem distorted or anything ....... turns out the pump was for lorries .

Size, as they say, does sometimes matter.....and is usually rather evident as in, well the size of the dispenser and the hole wot the fuel comes out of....not forgetting that HGV pumps tend to be separate from those for cars and vans.....and marked as such.

However, on the subject of technology, it would be nice, though unlikely, to see a couple of generations actually use mental arithmetic rather than instant recourse to a calculator....I know the latter is more convenient, but it's disturbing to see how many people simply cannot do basic mental arithmetic. I'm all for progress...unlike some on here....but simple daily use maths don't require, or shouldn't require, a calculator

Solid Rust Twotter
20th Apr 2014, 07:28
I honestly wonder how many would know how to use a compass,
protractor, map and do any sort of manual navigation now.


Most studes I've lectured are only interested in learning enough to pass the exams and get through the nav test. I've seen PPL candidates who haven't yet got a student licence to go solo, walking around with the latest in hand held GPS fashion.

Anyone making up a dead pool list would be wise to include these Darwin candidates. You could win a bit of money when tech hiccups cause a brain fart resulting in their demise, or when the utter reliance on the thing tempts them into penetrating foul weather in a piston single.

500N
20th Apr 2014, 07:41
SRT

Not being a pilot I don't know what you get taught. Have only ever tried to nav in one helo in the mil and learn't how fast you pass waypoints :rolleyes::O

Can nav on land and sea without a problem and it was good to learn the manual method just before GPS came in.

GPS's do fail so having a fall back helps IMHO, or at least an understanding of what is what.

Cacophonix
20th Apr 2014, 07:55
Bring back the NDB and revive the dying art of NDB tracking. In with the old, out with the new. I mean who needs those new fangled VORs...? ;)

I guess the truth (as highlighted by previous posters) is that one should always have a fall back position. The GPS is a great tool but it will blink out at the most inconvenient moment and then where the hell are you?

So saying I do wish the UK would adopt GPS aviation technology wholeheartedly in terms of procedures and standardisation of operation and clearly its sensible use should be given much greater focus in training pilots from PPLs all the way up to Sky Gods...

Caco

Capetonian
20th Apr 2014, 08:32
The bigger nozzle for trucks is a high flow pump.... When I compared the two, it was only fractionally bigger, and my first thought then it would fit was that perhaps someone had jammed something into the filler neck of the car in an act of petty vandalism.

Now I need to find out how to send an MMS .............!

ExSp33db1rd
20th Apr 2014, 08:38
........when did you really last use your wiz wheel in earnest.......Yesterday, in the Supermarket ( mini wallet sized one ) to prove to my wife that 2 full price 1/2 litre (approx.) sized things were cheaper than the 1 ltr. "On Special"

In the US it's cars with a clutch pedal.Fooled me too, sneeringly told Mr. Avis that of course I could drive a manual, especially as it was cheaper, then had to crawl back and ask how to start it!! ( when did they make it compulsory to depress the clutch pedal to use the starter switch ? - new to me, bloody computerised cars )

A few younger outdoors type might now but I feel the art is being lost. A thousand years ago ( circa 1957 ) I was driving from Lancashire to London ( i.e. vaguely North to South) and picked up a soldier trying to get back to his unit on a Sunday night. He told me he needed to get to Colchester, ( towards the East Coast of the UK ) so I explained that my route was no use to him, but I would drop him off somewhere where a major trunk road crossed our route ( I knew the road that I intended at that time, but have forgotten now) couldn't remember if it was North or South of our next major town. I told him to take the AA handbook out of the glove compartment and told him to look at the maps.

After a long time of silence and map perusing, I asked him of he had found Colchester ? Not yet he said, there's someplace here called Plymouth, (on the South coast, Westward) he said. I gave up and dropped him off at the next major intersection. Best of luck, Mate.

Once had a trainee co-pilot on a trip from Singapore to Australia, just after take off ATC cancelled the planned departure route and sent us to a new "waypoint" that we hadn't programmed into the INS ( prior to, but like, GPS for those under 40 ) I told the co-pilot to re-programme the INS and adjust the Fight Director. Black velvet night, artificial horizon indicating our left turn from the 200 deg. runway direction for take off and suddenly the FD demands a turn to the right, and he is demanding " steer 310 deg. Captain"

I ignored him and made vaguely in the direction of Jakarta until I had time to sort it out. Later I told him that I wasn' upset that he had screwed up the INS, it was a new toy to both of us, but we were in Singapore, flying to Australia, and he wanted me to fly Northwest ? That's the problem.

Not long ago we had a charter heading for New Zealand, they programmed the Long. as 174 West instead of 174 East. Nearly missed the the whole damned Country, could have been a precursor of MH 370 - an aircraft flying off into the Wide Blue Yonder, and never seen again. ( thinks ? MH 370 ?? no, no, can't be ! )

Flying the microlight not so long ago, ATC demanded some data, and rather than re-programme the panel mounted one I pulled out a handheld and used that. Had to smile, 50 years ago it was a sextant in a 707, now TWO GPS's - in a microlight ! World's Gone Mad.

IMHO INS was the greatest advance in Aviation in my lifetime, I recall doing a trial with a unit fitted to one of our freighters, it was an enormous thing bolted to the side wall of the fuselage, reminiscent I guess of early IBM computers that I'm told occupied a whole room. and had a RAM of about 1 Kb ? Took me over 30 mins to switch it on and get it up and running, and when we lined up for take off it announced that we had moved 1 mile West and 1/2 mile South from our starting position. I was impressed. Now we get GPS gadgets on your wrist.

If I tell anyone now that I used to navigate a 707 with a sextant, they start looking for the Men In White Coats. I recently had a student pilot ask me what a sextant was? One could weep.

Happy Days.

Capetonian
20th Apr 2014, 08:49
How about the cars with automatic handbrakes and electronic fuel flaps?

500N
20th Apr 2014, 11:40
Cape

Have been caught out by electronic and manual fuel flaps before.
Nothing worse than driving into a garage and spending 5 minutes crawling around looking for the release :rolleyes:. I found one, the only one in the glove box !!! :rolleyes:


Ex
Good stories.

Mac the Knife
20th Apr 2014, 11:51
Tom's been having driving lessons at a School - took him out the other day in the old Corsa that he will inherit and he was very unhappy with the non-power steering.

Told him that he should be glad we hadn't taken the old Series III Landy - that really builds up your biceps!

Mac

:p

Shaggy Sheep Driver
20th Apr 2014, 11:52
And cars with automatic headlights.... There's a couple of tunnels near here and as one drives through (they are well lit, so no need for headlights) quite often the headlights on the car behind come on, about half way though the tunnel. They stay on until just before entering the next tunnel then go off. Then halfway though that one, on they come again.

I'm all for labour saving stuff like electric start instead of hand cranking the engine, or electric windows and roof-lowering on convertibles, but really, shouldn't 'decision' stuff like when to turn on lights be part of the drivers' responsibility? The more 'babying' of drivers, the less aware they will be that they are responsible for a couple of tons of metal hurtling along among other road users.

And all this 'display' stuff in today's cars.... A friend has a hybrid car which has a large colour display in the middle of the dash. This shows schematics of the wheels and drive motors, and engine and batteries, with current flows, engine on or off, etc.... a real time display of where the car's power is going to and coming from. All very interesting, but shouldn't the drivers' eyes be outside, not staring at a complex display on the dash?

500N
20th Apr 2014, 11:56
Mac

"Told him that he should be glad we hadn't taken the old Series III Landy - that really builds up your biceps!"



I learn't to drive on a Series 11 Landy.

I wonder how kids would go without Synchromesh and double de clutch
or whatever it was called.

I did get in an old farm vehicle once, truck and after a few hiccups
had to be reminded by the farmer !!! :O

Oktas8
20th Apr 2014, 12:37
I wonder how kids would go without Synchromesh and double de clutch or whatever it was called.

Rarely, when i feel like a challenge in a manual car, i try to change gear without use of clutch at all. Third to fourth is the easiest, second to first is very difficult. Bit like disengaging syncromesh i suppose.

Blacksheep
20th Apr 2014, 17:27
My Honda has automatic lights but I use the manual switches to turn them on and off.

I learned to drive in a Royal Air Force Mk.1 Landrover out on the Line at Waddington. I remember the windscreen wipers had to be started manually. Once they were going you thought you might as well have not bothered. The heel over when cornering on the perimeter track at 70 mph was about 30 degrees :uhoh: and although the brake pedal was massive, standing on it didn't seem to do very much. Unless you were half way round the curve at top speed. :ooh:

One of these . . .

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C450836

500N
20th Apr 2014, 18:39
"Mk.1 Landrover out on the Line at Waddington. I remember the windscreen wipers had to be started manually. Once they were going you thought you might as well have not bothered."


Landy and Windscreen wipers - didn't they go faster the faster the Landy went and when you stopped they slowed down to almost nothing that you couldn't see the lights ???

Capetonian
20th Apr 2014, 18:41
Old VWs did that too. And there was only enough current for either the headlights or the windscreen wipers, not great when you were driving in the Southern Cape on a wet windy night and had to alternate (pun!) between the two.

ExSp33db1rd
20th Apr 2014, 21:53
Trouble with my auto. headlights is that they don't come on in mist or heavy rain, they have to be moved to a manual "on" position, then my Jap. car doesn't switch them off when you turn off the ignition outside the Post Office - only does that when in the auto. mode. ( yes, one can still park right outside the Post Office, and the Bank, and the hardware store, and the Bakery, and the Dairy etc. in NZ ! )

A frequent sight in NZ towns is Mr. ExS. standing at the side of the road waving a pair of jump leads at passing motorists,with a hopeful expression ! I never select Auto for that reason.

Akcherly - now finding that many motorists refuse a jump start unless the leads have some sort of gadget installed to prevent electronic disaster to the computer that tells them if the seat belts are done up, or how many litres per 100 Km they are using, constantly - bugger just driving the car.

Also -at 12 kph all my doors auto. lock, not a bad idea I suppose if one is in danger of being carjacked at every red light, but a PITA when one gets out, goes around to the other side, and tries to open the rear back door to extract something. Grrrr !

I'm shortly to re-cycle my car, and asked a passing salesman if I could buy a car that had a manual gear shift, and NO computerised electronic gear whatsoever, and definitely no GPS. A radio I might accept, but not a CD player ? He started to look anxiously for assistance from this psychopathic nutter.

World's Gone Mad. I blame Bill Gates !

Wasn't it the Ford Anglia / Prefect range that had windscreen wipers worked off some sort of engine manifold pressure, such that when the accelerator was pressed in an attempt to induce more power ( futile really tho' ) to overtake, all the urge went to the engine and none was left to work the wipers, so one always overtook with a rain obscured windscreen ? Such Fun !

Flash2001
21st Apr 2014, 00:17
Was a time, in North America anyway, when all windscreen wipers were driven by manifold vacuum. Therefore, matting the loud pedal stopped the wipers!

After an excellent landing etc...

500N
21st Apr 2014, 00:20
ExSp

"A frequent sight in NZ towns is Mr. ExS. standing at the side of the road waving a pair of jump leads at passing motorists,with a hopeful expression !"


I would have thought that she knew better ways of getting people to stop than waving jumper leads around :O ;)

Ever thought of providing her with a mobile phone ???? :O ;)

onetrack
21st Apr 2014, 00:29
The design trend in modern vehicles is all about dumbing down the driver skills required, until anyone with just button-pressing ability will be able to drive a vehicle (or fly a 'plane!).

In the not-so-distant future, you will climb into your car, select the destination on a touch-screen dash display, sit back, and you will be taken there, with no further input from yourself. There will be no control inputs that will allow you to take control of the vehicle.

There will be a "fail-safe" mode in the computerisation of the vehicle that will pull it up by the side of the road if anything goes wrong - and you will then have to call for tech assistance or a tilt-tray towing service, as there will be no hood you can open, and nothing on the vehicle that is "user-repairable". Sets of "jumper leads" will become amusing museum pieces.

If the vehicle suffers a major fault in the drive system, you'll be directed where to dump it in the local vehicle-recycling centre - and you'll then have to hitch a ride down to the dealership to purchase a new one, just like you buy a new toaster. Your new vehicle will have about as much character as a toaster.

Laugh you may - but when you see the current-level technology of driverless trains, and fully-automated dump trucks and diggers on minesites - without a single person in any of the machines - then you can see exactly where we're heading.

ExSp33db1rd
21st Apr 2014, 01:46
Ever thought of providing her with a mobile phone ????Akcherly ........ I said Mr. i.e. yours truly, Mrs ExS manages to remember to turn them off, and when I forget slopes off for some retail therapy, leaving me to sort it out. Most times have found many kindred spirits who presumably relate to my plight and are willing to stop.

Came back from an overseas trip to find the car dead left in the 'free' club car park and eventually diverted a motorist to come and help me, then when I opened the bonnet discovered that I'd disconnected the battery - and forgotten !! Such fun !

P.s. She doesn't want a mobile phone, must be the only female that doesn't have one permanently welded to their right paw ?

probes
21st Apr 2014, 04:19
ShShDr -shouldn't 'decision' stuff like when to turn on lights be part of the drivers' responsibility?
no, they have to be nannied. A friend from the States surprised me claiming that the law forbids an open bottle of alcohol (like beer) in the car - whereas I've always thought the driver should have enough willpower to stay sober even if the whole freight is drinking like horses.


P.S cute car, Blacksheep! I had the privilege of driving a Nissan Patrol once that had some lazy elves sitting between the steering wheel and the other wheels - you turned the steering wheel, then it took several moments to figure out what you actually meant, and then it started to turn. :E

MFC_Fly
21st Apr 2014, 08:01
........when did you really last use your wiz wheel in earnest....... Yesterday, in the Supermarket ( mini wallet sized one ) to prove to my wife that 2 full price 1/2 litre (approx.) sized things were cheaper than the 1 ltr. "On Special"
You needed a 'wiz wheel' for that? :eek:

Cacophonix
21st Apr 2014, 08:15
P.s. She doesn't want a mobile phone, must be the only female that doesn't have one permanently welded to their right paw ?

She sounds like an admirable woman and one well deserving of her very own wiz wheel with which to bamboozle the kids on the tills when shopping! :ok:

Caco

ExSp33db1rd
21st Apr 2014, 08:21
........the law forbids an open bottle of alcohol (like beer) in the car......
In NZ it's not actually illegal to be drinking whilst driving, just don't be over the legal limit if stopped. ( not that I'm anxious to prove the point ! )

You needed a 'wiz wheel' for that?!!Sorry - I knew someone would pick that up, 'twas a general example of what I use my pocket whizz wheel for ! The actual conversion yesterday was between containers of 286 ml and 340 ml, - of whatever it was that she was contemplating - and no, I can't do that in my head,hard enough even with the whizz wheel !!

What I usually use it for is to work out the Unit Price, which is only just coming into practice in NZ, and not all products on the shelf are marked, and I actually use the wheel in preference to a pocket calculator, sort of seems easier once one is used to it, tho' it did befuddle the 6th Former on holiday work experience once, and suggesting that it was really just a circular slide rule didn't help.

I find it easier than a calculator to work out more than one amount of the same currency conversion, unless one uses the calculators' 'constant' formula - which I always seem to cock up - once the rate is set on the wheel it is easy to read off different amounts quite quickly, it is rarely necessary to need the answer to 1/1000 ths of a cent.

Cacophonix
21st Apr 2014, 08:27
Being analogue the wiz wheel is a superb fit for those types of problems that involve ratio and proportion. I know a couple of people who wouldn't know how to tackle such a problem with a digital calculator but who intuitively solve such problems far faster on a wiz wheel than I can with my calculator...

Caco

Capetonian
21st Apr 2014, 08:31
Went to the Post Office once, bought 10 x R4.00 stamps, put R50 down on the counter and was waiting for my change. The woman was fumbling around looking for something so I asked what the problem was .............. she needed her calculator to work it out. FFS!

ExSp33db1rd
21st Apr 2014, 09:27
Once had a Flt. Eng. who had taught himself to use a Japanese Abacus whilst on a Tokyo posting for 3 months, and he then eschewed his trusty slide rule for his new found toy, and was actually quite adept and accurate with it, but we had to stop him using it - the clacking of the beads kept us awake all night!

Tankertrashnav
21st Apr 2014, 09:35
I rarely use a satnav but on a trip from Cornwall to some place East of Reading I relented and used one for the last 10 miles or so. It went spectacularly wrong and sent us off a roundabout back in a Westerly direction. My brother was reluctant to believe me until I pointed out that as the sun was now on our left we couldnt possibly be travelling East.

Astro triumphs over new technology!

Shaggy Sheep Driver
21st Apr 2014, 09:40
Ah! Twatnavs! A whole world of stupidity is enabled by those devices. Like an ambulance in Essex that needed to go to a nearby village a few miles away... after a few HOURS and by then somewhere near the top of the M1, dumbo driver starts to question his 'magic box'. Hope the call wasn't urgent!

Or....

"Why did you turn sharp left at the level crossing and drive along the railway track?"

"Because my Twatnav told me to!"

As a 'dumbing down' device, a Twatnav compared to a map can't beaten.

Chris P Bacon
21st Apr 2014, 12:30
I picked up a hire car at Munich airport a couple of weeks back. On my drive into town, i started to feel the heat on my backsides. Someone had left the heated seat on full blast.
It was night time and I was on the motorway, so not easy to find the switch or pull over, so I ended up trying to float over the seat for ten minutes, until I could pull over.
Another thing added to my pre set off check list.

cattletruck
21st Apr 2014, 12:53
I kinda hate it how one of my TVs has to "boot" up straight into "smart" mode after which I have to manually select "TV" mode :ugh:. It's considerably slower than the valve TV it replaced, so now it takes even longer to figure out there's nothing worth watching on TV.

Also hate it how everyone seems to driving with annoyingly bright headlights around town, you'd think street lights were only put in for decoration. Headlight technology has improved so much they should introduce a law limiting their brightness in built up areas.

I reckon I will also see the day when they print a warning on chocolate Easter eggs that says "Do not eat wrapper".

Gen Zombie is a comin' and they is looking for braaaaaaaaaaaaains.

ian16th
21st Apr 2014, 15:15
when did they make it compulsory to depress the clutch pedal to use the starter switch ? Not compulsory.

I've only come across it once, like you with a hire car, a Korean one.

I'd arrived late at night and arranged for the car to be delivered to my hotel the next morning.

Of course it is delivered mid-breakfast :sad: So I get up and go out to the car park and note the lack of damage and sign for the car. Delivery crew do a runner.

I finish breakfast etc and eventually with SWMO, we get into hire car. :sad:

Now left with the no start problem and severely testing my 4th rate French over the phone.

ian16th
21st Apr 2014, 15:58
I believe that I was lucky to learn to drive 'agricultural' vehicles on virtually empty airfields.

In my case the 1st things that I drove, circa 1954 at Lindholme, were a Bedford 30 Cwt RVT and a Standard 9 BABS van. Both with 3 speed crash gearboxes.

Having mastered these, a normal civilian, even of 50's vintage car, was pure simplicity and by the time I came to 'mix it' with public road traffic, I was competent and confident in my vehicle handling.

WRT the 'modern' features on later cars, the most significant is the humble windscreen washer. My 1st car so equipped was a 1960 Morris Oxford, which I bought about 1968-9. It was a hand operated pump and vastly superior to the Squeezy bottle that I operated out of the window on my earlier cars.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
21st Apr 2014, 17:05
What about bluddy computers? How often have you been typing happily away when all of a sudden the screen changes to something you don't want, because you inadvertently hit a key combination that's a 'short cut' to a 'feature'!

Grrrr! Who are these spotty IT geeks who design this stuff? It's not clever or user-friendly to have it do that... keep it simple, stupid!

Rossian
21st Apr 2014, 17:38
......to trash satnavs. I beg to differ.
Set it up right and it took me right into the residential part of Rouen with nary a quiver and announced as we sat outside theB&B gate "you have reached your destination". Sans perspiration.

Set it up with the right numbers and it will give you notice that you're driving a tad quickly - useful on French autoroutes when the variable speed limits can catch you out easily.

My other nav - the one that sits in the pax seat, often says "xyz whatever"
"Yes,love, it told me that 5 secs ago".

And, of course, a little preplanning with a real map, can give you a mental picture before you set off.

And, finally, you don't HAVE to do what it tells you to do if your eyes tell you that it doesn't look right.
"Turn right down a railway line"??? Nah, don't buy that one.

The Ancient Mariner

Capetonian
21st Apr 2014, 17:51
Satnavs are useful for decision support when you can't look at a map, or in cities where you may get caught up in the maze of one-ways. For me, it's map every time if possible.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
21st Apr 2014, 18:28
Yes of course **** navs can be useful if properly used (try finding a particular hotel somewhere in central Turin while riding a motorbike using just a map!).

But the stupid use them improperly, not recognising major errors like taking hours to cover journey of a few miles and not realising summat's wrong.... or driving onto rail tracks. You may not buy it, but it's true. From the Mirror website:

"Motorists must realise that while they are a helpful navigation tool, they should not follow their instructions to the detriment of road safety."

Last week van driver Graham Foster, 21, received a suspended jail term for causing a train crash after claiming his satnav misguided him on to the Newcastle-Carlisle rail line.

An express with 45 passengers smashed into his delivery van in Bardon Mill, Northumberland, but no one was hurt.

Or from the Kentonline site:

An elderly woman almost caused a catastrophe last night after turning left at a level crossing and driving along a live track... because her sat nav told her to.

The dopey driver, who is in her 80s, hurtled up the line for 30 metres at the Broad Oak crossing in Canterbury before realising her mistake.

Panicking witnesses frantically called 999, fearing the grey Rover was going to be hit by a train as the crossing barriers went down shortly before 7pm.

But emergency crews were quickly on the scene and alerted the driver of an oncoming train.

They also induce the lazy not be 'situationaly aware'. Not to know for instance such simple geographic knowledge that Manchester is north of London, and Brum is somewhere in between. They have their uses, but they can also encourage stupidity and laziness.

Rossian
21st Apr 2014, 20:16
.....I should have made it clearer...

The two posters above have described the situations I outlined in my post where I find a satnav useful.

The "Nah. Don't buy that one!" was not doubting the events you describe but gave my reaction to the stupid instruction "turn right onto the railway line"

The Ancient Mariner

ian16th
21st Apr 2014, 20:47
What about bluddy computers? How often have you been typing happily away when all of a sudden the screen changes to something you don't want, because you inadvertently hit a key combination that's a 'short cut' to a 'feature'!SSD

Would you rather the combination of computer, operating system and application did NOT do what you intended, when you do hit the correct keys?

Something that for most people is the majority of the time.

The golden rule is that these damn computers do what you tell them to do; not what you meant to tell them to do.

cumulusrider
21st Apr 2014, 21:01
A couple of years ago I was in control at a gliding competition and one of the competitors landed out about 60 miles away. His crew called in to say he had the destination and was on his way with the trailer. 3 hrs later the crew phoned in to to say he was nearly there and he was near Ely in norfolk which set alarm bells ringing as the the glider was near nottingham.
He had put the destination as E rather than W in his sat nav. Pilot slept in his glider and the crew in his car and they met next morning.
I imagine the atmosphere in the car must have been somewhat frosty on the drive back:)

Capetonian
21st Apr 2014, 21:19
My brother was reluctant to believe me until I pointed out that as the sun was now on our left we couldnt possibly be travelling East.I was driving in Switzerland (no Satnav) with SWMBO 'navigating' and telling me we were on the right road. The problem was, I told her, that we going the wrong way on it, and she asked me how I knew. As we were meant to be heading East, and the sun was in front of us and it was early evening, it was instinctive to me but women don't seem to get that. On the other hand, they will notice a house with two green windows and a red flower box and a blue gate and a labrador ........... but won't have a clue where they are.

500N
21st Apr 2014, 21:25
Cape

"As we were meant to be heading East, and the sun was in front of us and it was early evening,
it was instinctive to me but women don't seem to get that."

It is to me as well.

It sometimes happens to men as well who either don't have a clue
or just can't get the head around it - or just have never been taught.

ExSp33db1rd
21st Apr 2014, 22:22
And don't forget the BOAC aircraft that crashed in the North African desert, after a passenger told them that the sun was on the wrong side of the aircraft and they eventually ran out of fuel.

Turned out that the professional, experienced, navigator had a compass system on to which one could set the local magnetic variation, instead of manually adding a factor to the True Heading each time. ( or something like that, read the report, can't remember all the detail now.) Got it wrong.

Same problem cropping up now with modern computerised stuff, throw the basics out of the window just obey the amber winking lights on The Magic Box. Scary.

Old navigator instructor told me to stop trying to do a maths exam in a rattling steel cabinet, to pretend to be sitting outside on the tail and steer the thing over a map. Point it in the right direction first, lad, then refine the nitty gritty.

500N
21st Apr 2014, 22:29
Ex

"after a passenger told them that the sun was on the wrong side of the aircraft."

That is how I work out roughly where we are heading in an aircraft
since you have so few other clues.


Re "just obey the amber winking lights on The Magic Box. Scary."

As much as i used to tell students to trust the compass and not dead reckoning or gut instinct, it also needed pointing out a number of other things.

- Cross check that the features you see are the same place on the map.
- Anticipate what you are going to be coming up to - a marked feature like a river or saddle etc so when you get to it it confirms your nav.
- And of course, if you don't think you know where you are, instead
of carrying on blindly, stop ! and sort it out.

Hydromet
22nd Apr 2014, 03:23
- And of course, if you don't think you know where you are, instead
of carrying on blindly, stop ! and sort it out.
When in danger, when in doubt, stop the plane and all get out.:ok:

500N
22nd Apr 2014, 04:00
Yes, well, I suppose flying an aircraft is a bit different :O
Luckily never had to teach it !

llondel
22nd Apr 2014, 04:04
When we did a stint in the SF Bay area a few years ago we started with a rental car that had satnav fitted. It was only when we got a car without that we really started learning our way around the place.

I learned not to trust any computer mapping system without independent verification of the route and destination back when Autoroute first came out. Southend is somewhere in Scotland, Southend on Sea is in Essex. Fortunately I was just playing with it at the time, asking it for routes to places I knew.

Satnav scores when your careful planning just collapsed in a heap due to traffic jams and/or road closures and you have to make it up on the fly. It's also useful when you know basically where you're going, and use it to alert you to an impending non-obvious turn.

ExSp33db1rd
22nd Apr 2014, 08:22
Yes, well, I suppose flying an aircraft is a bit different

Not really, still all about commonsense and situational awareness - just happens a bit faster !

Shaggy Sheep Driver
22nd Apr 2014, 09:31
The golden rule is that these damn computers do what you tell them to do; not what you meant to tell them to do.

No shit sherlock!

Actually, they do what the systems designer told them to do when the operator makes certain inputs.

I did spend a career of 40+ years in IT so I know a bit about computers and how they work. I also know how good software should work, and 'features' that users can inadvertently trigger when they don't want them are indicative of carp system design philosophy.

If the user wishes to invoke a 'feature', it should only be possible so to do by deliberate selection that can't be inadvertently entered easily (and therefore unintentionally). That's part of what systems design is about.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
22nd Apr 2014, 09:35
The "Nah. Don't buy that one!" was not doubting the events you describe but gave my reaction to the stupid instruction "turn right onto the railway line"

I think it highly unlikely that the twatnav said "turn right onto the railway line", but it might well have said "take the next right turn". Which is what those dopes did, despite 'the next right turn' being off the side of the level crossing and onto the railway line!

Shaggy Sheep Driver
22nd Apr 2014, 09:42
When we did a stint in the SF Bay area a few years ago we started with a rental car that had satnav fitted. It was only when we got a car without that we really started learning our way around the place.

Exactly! Just as some folk use a calculator to work out the cost of 10 stamps because their brain has never had to do even very simple sums, many today have no idea of geography, even local geography, as the twatnav comes up with the magic instructions.

Of course, because they don't have any geographical knowledge they can't detect massive gross errors if they've pressed the wrong button; hence destinations a few miles away not being reached after a few hours and the dumbo driver not suspecting a problem!

TWT
22nd Apr 2014, 10:53
Occasionally,I'll ask my cab driver if we are North,South,East or West of the CBD.In the last 5 years,at least half of them just give me a blank look.

I always put in a lat/long on my satnav to navigate me to the driveway of a hotel,for example, after consulting Google Earth.

onetrack
22nd Apr 2014, 11:08
And, of course, a little preplanning with a real map, can give you a mental picture before you set off.Glad to see I'm not the only one who practises this. I memorise a route from a map of the area and usually proceed without further referral.
I can only memorise about 8 or 9 streets at a time, so I have to do this reasonably close to the required destination.
I suffer from severe deafness as result of war service, so talking maps with soft female voices are good for SFA.
The streets I hate are the ones with gradual semi-circular curves, that give you slow disorientation at night.
Modern town planners love these type of street layouts, and they can really throw you out in strange territory.

500N
22nd Apr 2014, 11:16
One track

I do likewise and also agree re long curved roads !


The other thing I have noticed, particularly with GF.

I can look at a map, online or our local street directory and
pick the easiest and quickest route to get to a house in an
estate.

GF on the other hand seems to pick the hardest and least
intuitive route with more turns than hot dinners.

At Xmas, I queried why she chose a route to a party and
pointed out that we were only 2 streets from the main road,
not 5 or 6 she had taken. When I picked her up I drove my
way out to the main road and she couldn't believe it.

Rwy in Sight
22nd Apr 2014, 12:22
Funny this thread come about now. On my current vehicle sat nav was not activated and I use internet maps to to learn my way around before start a trip. And since leaving my childhood behind I have no problem to ask for assistance when I get lost.

I love to have a GPS available mainly as a back up plan when the planned route turns to be a parking lot, but I think map reading is a skill I love to have acquired.

Rwy in Sight

G-CPTN
22nd Apr 2014, 22:48
My current car came with satnav - even though I declared that I didn't want it.

I now use it, but frequently ignore the instructions when it wants to divert me from my known route - the gismo recalculates and offers an alternative solution.

Where it can be frustrating is when you select 'shortest route' and it tries to take you along tracks better-suited to goats and with fords only suitable for agricultural tractors - though you do discover routes that you never knew (however, shortest is rarely fastest - or easiest).

I just wish it had an 'economical' option.

The satnav can be useful for when you are in an unknown area and miss a turning (ironically often caused by an indeterminate instruction to take the next turning - which turns out to be the entrance to an industrial estate or a carpark) as it will recalculate the route within seconds.

500N
22nd Apr 2014, 23:02
SatNav's I've used are good going to another big city - like Sydney as you can see the route ahead of you which is useful.

But it can send you down funny streets sometimes !!!


Re routes, my ex assistant used to get to the Freeway from my house via the back roads to one freeway that after 2 kms lead to the Airport freeway.

I used to go from my house, straight onto one freeway that bled easily onto the airport freeway.

Now, is slightly shorter - her way - but with more twists, turns, round abouts and traffic lights - better than a quick route to the freeway and easy driving all the way at 100 kmh ?

The other night, my house to the airport, drop off and return, 1 hour 5 or 10 minutes, all but a few kms at 100 kmh on cruise.

I often wonder which way a Sat Nav would suggest.

con-pilot
22nd Apr 2014, 23:44
We had a GPS in our hire car in Ireland.

If we had not had it, we'd still be driving around Dublin looking for our hotel.

Not really, but it became invaluable for driving all over the country.

Funny enough, the only time we became lost and it became worthless, was when we tried to return the car to the Hertz center in Dubin, it didn't know where it was, it only knew the airport location. :p

Today, I will not rent/hire a car without a GPS SATNAV when I am in a strange area/city/country.

500N
24th Apr 2014, 22:57
This is worth a read for a laugh. Funny text's by parents to kids,
most of them technology related.

Don't have your coffee in your hand when reading them ! :O

I love the kids text to Mum re WalMart !


Just the pictures of the texts
Hilarious texts from tech-troubled parents to their baffled children | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2612085/You-dont-run-Google-Hilarious-texts-tech-troubled-parents-baffled-children.html)


The Daily mail story
Hilarious texts from tech-troubled parents to their baffled children | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2612085/You-dont-run-Google-Hilarious-texts-tech-troubled-parents-baffled-children.html)

superq7
24th Apr 2014, 23:54
500 ^^^^^^ brilliant thanks.