The sensible JAA vs FAA thread

[foghorn]

I invite Ronchonner, Mechantloup, Flyboy11 and anyone else to join this thread and have a sensible discussion about the merits and the demerits of the two major flight crew licensing systems in the world today.

If this thread descends into any sort of slanging match I will delete it.

Remember the outcome of this discussion is completely academic to me as I want to fly in the UK and so need a JAA licence. This also applies to the majority of pilots flying on both sides of the Atlantic. To the majority of us the argument is therefore pointless. So let's treat it as a rainy Saturday in the clubhouse type of discussion.

enjoy!
foggy.

[ 15 September 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]

[G SXTY]

Oh no, now you’ve done it foggy!

JAA v FAA, well let’s see.
1) I’m British
2) I have a right to work anywhere in the EU
2) I want to be a commercial pilot, based in the UK or elsewhere in Europe
3) I do not have the right (or the desire) to live and work in the USA
4) I need a JAA ATPL
5) Erm, that’s it.

Phew, glad we got that out of the way. :)

[foghorn]

G-SXTY,

Ditto all that for me.

Next?

cheers!
foggy.

[EGDR]

Ditto

I have flown in the US and there are certainly not lower standards over there. The differences between the two are in the details. Enough said.

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Foggy,
Got to agree with you mate....however can we have FAA prices and some of their sunny weather over here.I get the impression that the FAA actually like people to fly over there whereas the CAA.....well....erm...
:D

[Jepp]

There should be an FAA vs JAA forum .
Can we have one please ?
just to prove the FAA system is king

[Jepp]

There should be an FAA vs JAA forum,
Can we have one please,even if it is just just to prove the FAA system is king , let's face it aviation is USA lock stock and barrel, they invented it so let them run it.

Flybabefly
( no I'm not a yank )

[foghorn]

Out of interest has anyone calculated the total cost of getting an airline job in the US compared to the UK? Including the lost income getting the extra hours required for a job in the US?

Now, the cost of getting a CPL/IR over there is much cheaper, however I understand to even get a look in at a regional turboprop job you need 3,000+ hours and turbine time, which is often got flying cheques or other freight around in small turboprops for next to no money, or even paying to be a first officer.

Such things do not happen here where it is common for people to get regional or even jet jobs with less than 1,500 hours.

I would vouch that the lost income over the extra years on breadline wages in the US goes a long way to balancing the costs of getting that prime airline job when the UK is compared with the US.

Thoughts? Corrections from US pilots?
foggy

[cyclops]

The ground examination procedures in the USA are a farce. You can pass with no knowledge whatsoever, as long as you have a good memory.The flying side is another story; the standards required for an IRT are the same as Europe. With these qualifications you can now start to accumulate your 2000hrs multi-engine time. When said 2000 hours are in the log book a major airline MAY consider you. Loads of tests and interviews. Then they put you straight into groundschool to teach you all the bits you you didn't understand when you did the ground exams. At this time there is a 50% failure rate due to either lack of brain power or cannot stand the high pressure groundschool. These statements come direct from the airlines. So in the end you either pre-select before the training starts generally as in Europe or you weed out later on as in the US. The end result is a bunch of pilots who have roughly the same ability and roughly the same amount of theoretical knowlege. For the airlines pre-selection is cheaper and this is now starting to be recognised in the US.

[Kenny]

Popular misconception in Europe that you need 3000+ hours to get a job with any airline in the US. Fact is until recently (last tuesday) to get a job with a commuter like flying an emb-145 at COEX you had a look in with 800 TT and 200 Multi. In fact this has been quite standard for them over the past 12 months. At the other end of the commuter scale is ACA that has been looking for 1200TT and 400 Multi for the CRJ.

As far as Majors are concerned, yes, you'll need around 4000-5000 TT and a bunch of P1/PIC time.

Of course, last tuesday changed that, and right now everyone is cancelling class dates and interviews for the rest of the year. Probably longer.