Aerospace battle what?

[Type1106]

I've just read in the Torygraph under graduations from Sleaford Tech that two have graduated as "Aerospace Battle Managers".
Would someone be so kind as to explain to an old fart WTF is an Aerospace Whatsit?

[ObiOneKenobi]

Used to be Fighter Control branch

[Roland Pulfrew]

Fighter controller!

[Haraka]

Dunno, AKA Fighter Controllers perhaps?
It's the sort of title they would use in the world of wanquespeak.

[500N]

Isn't this a flow on from the other US term, "Battlespace" ?

[Type1106]

Ah... thanks - glad I'm long gone!
1106

[MG]

It's much more descriptive of the roles that they now do. The old term was very limited and only a few in that branch actually controlled fighters, even when we had some.

Change isn't always bad, unless you read Pprune, it would seem.

[Chris Kebab]

...but still reading the graduations; you miss it really:ok:

[Wensleydale]

They still keep the FC brevet though (even if it does sound like an Italian football team).

[NutLoose]

Posh words for desk jockeys

[muppetofthenorth]

Can't have been reading them that closely, been titled as such for at least 5 years.

[Cows getting bigger]

The third man in the cockpit, or is it the second? :rolleyes:

[Wensleydale]

I believe that the old Fighter Control advert read "Squat beneath the Rest"?

[Sandy Parts]

old news - got to have a new title so they can keep the monopoly over 'space towers' at Fylingdales. Plus keeps all the brevet sellers in a job selling the old ones to the 'I graudated before ABM' brigade. Embrace change, you'll be asking why the Observers are wearing WSO brevets next...:)

[Haraka]

Sigh. It all began when dustmen started being titled "refuse disposal officers"......

[MPN11]

I wonder when they will make ATC "Aerospace Peace Managers"? :cool:

[Davef68]

Aerospace Deconfliction Managers surely?

[MPN11]

There was a day when I was vectoring a pair of Wattisham 'Nings onto their tanker on Towline 6. Victor was turning at the Southern end of the racetrack, and as he rolled out onto North so did my 'Nings ... A couple of hundred yards behind and 1,000 below. The nicest thing a fighter pilot ever said to me was ... "Contact, Eastern ... You're in the wrong job."
:cool:

[Pontius Navigator]

Not enough fighters to go around so had to come up with a new name :)

[big v]

in other words it wasn't like that when I was a lad. For gawd's sake, things change, let them get on with it. I'm sure that members of the RE Kite Squadron were equally concened about "pilots." Why not rant at the Daily Mail or do something equally constructive.

[newt]

Are they still nice young things you would like to take in the bar on a Friday night?

I thought not:cool:

[big v]

and can write backwards in chinagraph on tote boards while standing on tiptoe.....

Now look at what's happened

[Wensleydale]

"Are they still nice young things you would like to take in the bar on a Friday night?"


Those were the Aerospace Bottle Managers!:}

[Heathrow Harry]

things move on - 114 years ago a Pilot was the guy who parked your battleship..................

[MPN11]

"Are they still nice young things you would like to take in the bar on a Friday night?"

I hope that was meant to be "take TO the bar" ;)

[KPax]

I thought it was a name for failed Air Traffic Controllers.

[Haraka]

Hmmm.
The usual rule was that those who drove the progress and knew the implications, would inevitably be subsumed in recognition by the name changers and self-publicists.

[teeteringhead]

I thought it was a name for failed Air Traffic Controllers. Naaaah!

Isn't that the Flight Ops Branch? ;)

Hat, coat, stab vest .........

[Canadian Break]

The one Branch in the Air Force whose utility is directly linked to it's postcode. :E

[tailchase]

Resistance is futile.

Whilst ATC has been rooted in its airfield centric history and Ops Spt going nowhere fast..............................................ABM has well it's obvious really, become Battle Managers in a world of technology - it's not just all about banging fighter v fighter although that might have been fun - no matter how much you might disagree. It's too late whahhhhhhhaaa

[Proletarian]

I suppose we should be used to the scopies changing their names, after all they’ve gone from GD(G)FC to Ops Spt FC to ASACS to ABM. Aerospace Battle Management is certainly an interesting title and presumably is aimed at attracting recruits, rather than the specialisation having to put up with individuals who didn’t really understand what they were being shoehorned into during selection at Cranwell, or those who’ve failed courses elsewhere.
I think the old ASACS bosses played it quite cleverly when the Cold war ended and they realised their specialised role would rapidly shrink and so shifted their emphasis to Battlespace Management and have re-titled themselves accordingly.

Of course yet another change is just on the horizon, as yet another study is underway to merge ABM with ATC or ATM as it is now titled. When the study is complete, I imagine the eventual fallout will be the closure of Boulmer and the move of the School of Aerospace Battle Management (SABM) to combine with CATCS to form a new combined training unit within 22Gp at RAF Shawbury, provided the money can be found from somewhere. Perhaps we chould have some suggestions for the title of a combined school and the merged specialisations?
SCABM - School of Control and Battlespace Management and ATBM are my suggestions - haven't got time to think oif anything more amusing!

Proletarian

[HTB]

Do they really mean "aerospace", or "airspace"?

As for the newspaper ads trying to attract people into these areas, I thnk the slogan was "Supersonic battle of (t)wits".

Mister B

[tailchase]

ASACS is the overall AD system not the name of the FC branch/specialization. ASACS has a wider NATO feel to it after UKADGE.

[teeteringhead]

a wider NATO feel ... are we back with the "nice young things"? :E:E:E

[Boldface]

I have to say that by far the best flt cdr I've had on any fleet was an FC on 23 Sqn. Top guy who really knew his stuff in the air as well.

[NRU74]

I see in today's Torygraph (or at least the on line version) there's a list of Cranwell graduations including 'No 8 Commissioned Warrant Officers' Course'
What's that all about ?

[teeteringhead]

NRU 74

Warrant Officers and MACR have for a few years now under certain circumstances been eligible do a short (2 weeks IIRC) Commissioning Course.

Quite understandably (IMHO) we have now come into line with t'Army and realised that an experienced RAF WO doesn't need the same training as a spotty youth, and many WO/JO posts are virtually interchangeable anyway.

[Haraka]

The Americans have had Commissioned Warrant Officers for donkeys' years. I worked with one who was a Major equivalent.

[HTB]

Haraka

The difference here between the UK/US CWO concept is that the US variety remains a CWO; the UK version are WOs who, after a short officer training course, become commissioned officers (there is no CWO equivalent rank).

Mister B

[Haraka]

HTB,
Indeed, but there was also the anomaly of an American Army CWO staying in an RAF Officers' Mess.

[teeteringhead]

the anomaly of an American Army CWO staying in an RAF Officers' Mess Not necessarily an anomaly Haraka.

In some respects their top rank (CWO-5?) is regarded as Wg Cdr equivalent. I think in RAF terms it's more like Spec Aircrew (but not PA!) but with more ranks.

Certainly a lot of the instructors at Rucker are CWOs, up to and including those positions which would certainly be sqn ldr or wg cdr on RAF Stations.

[HTB]

Yes, it is anomalous, but in UK thinking, so is the situation of holding both a Royal warrant and a Royal commission. The US, not having a "Royal", do not encounter this apparent disparity.

I presume that you mean not being allowed to stay in an officers' mess; that's probably because of a lack of knowledge/information in UK military circles about the status of CWOs (certainly the RAF not knowing about anyone's army, let alone the US:E, and the aforementioned anomaly).

Mister B

[MPN11]

Wiki is quite informative on this subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_officer_(United_States)

Having known and worked with a few CWOs, they are a singular breed! But, essentially, they're specialists in their field and don't go leaping from job to job every couple of years on posting. The Spec aircrew comparison is pertinent!

[HTB]

Following the Wiki link has just confused me - the US Army seem to have "Chief" Warrant Officers; I didn't see a reference to "Commissioned" WO.

Any US Army types (current or serving) able to enlighten us?

Mister B

[Haraka]

From "about.com US Military"
"Title 10 USC authorizes the commissioning of warrant officers (WO1) upon promotion to chief warrant officer (CW2). These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists."

[MPN11]

Thanks, Haraka ... I'd read the 'specialist' VS 'generalist' quote a few years back, and couldn't recall where! Sums it up perfectly.

[Roland Pulfrew]

There was a very argumentative but often amusing debate about the US warrant officers' status on PPRuNE Mil (http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/189612-us-army-warrants.html) a while ago. Unbelievably long topic debating whether a US WO should be in the Os' or SNCOs' Mess - which ISTR ended with the US side saying "you lot don't understand how important we are" and the UK (and International) side saying "get over it; the clue is in the warrant officer bit". :E

In some respects their top rank (CWO-5?) is regarded as Wg Cdr equivalent. only by the 'Mercans I suspect :E :E

[GreenKnight121]

In the USMC Warrant Officers who have served 8+ years as a WO/CWO can convert directly to Captain (O-3) if they so choose - they continue in their specialty but are "limited duty officers", which means they can never command squadrons, companies, etc. They can command non-combat units, such as logistics centers, admin units, training schools, etc.

They can be promoted to Lieutenant Colonel (O-5), but no higher.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

MPN11

"Are they still nice young things you would like to take in the bar on a Friday night?"

I hope that was meant to be "take TO the bar"

Not if you know newt!

Bloggs:hmm: