LH cancels 3,800 flights due to pilot strike

[ChiefT]

Lufthansa cancels 3,800 flights due to pilot strike | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/03/31/uk-lufthansa-strike-idUKBREA2U0TS20140331)

" Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) has cancelled 3,800 flights for April 2-4, or virtually all of its operations, due to a planned walkout by pilots, in what would be one of the biggest strikes ever to hit the German airline.

Vereiningung Cockpit, the union representing most of Lufthansa's 5,400 pilots, last week said it was calling for a three day strike from April 2 over plans by Germany's largest airline to scrap an early retirement deal.

Although Lufthansa had improved its offer, the pilots said it wasn't enough as it didn't apply to pilots joining after 2014.

The Lufthansa units affected by the strikes would normally operate around 4,300 flights over the three days, but the walkout means it will be able to operate just 500 short and long-haul flights during the three-day period, it said.

The strike affects flights run by its Lufthansa brand as well as its Germanwings low-cost unit, and it has also cancelled 23 out of a planned 31 Lufthansa Cargo flights for the strike period.

Lufthansa said on Monday the strike would cost it tens of millions of euros just for its Lufthansa and Germanwings passenger operations.

"A large amount of damage has been done just by the announcement of the strike, because passengers have already changed their bookings and cargo customers have switched to other airlines to transport their goods," Lufthansa said in a statement.

Back in 2010, Lufthansa pilots called a four-day strike over cost cuts. Although the action was called off after one day, it still resulted in the cancellation of around 2,000 flights and cost Lufthansa 48 million euros (£39 million) in lost revenues.

Analysts now estimate that a full three-day strike could cost the airline 30-50 million euros in profit.

Lufthansa said it would rebook customers onto other airlines or trains. Its units Swiss, Austrian, Eurowings, CityLine, Air Dolomiti, plus partner Brussels Airlines, would use larger aircraft on routes to and from Germany where possible.

A Lufthansa spokesman said that while the group was still considering the possibility of legal action, the damage had already been done."

The main reason is, that LH pilots want to keep their early retirement scheme allowing them to retire with 55 but not later than with 60 getting about 50% of their salary until the final retirement.

LH want to change that due to a recent EU Court ruling, allowing pilots to fly until the age of 65 - provided they are fit to fly, of course.

[3MTA3]

They now manage to be on strike more often than Air France :E

[blind pew]

Good luck to them...at least they aren't endangering everyone by flying until 65.:ok:

[Volume]

I always love this calculation of losses...
LH loses 48 M€ on thre days, this obviously means they make 5.8 G€ (365*48M/3) every year.
Did I misunderstand Mathematics, or do the LH people simply put rhetoric pressure on the pilots, having fully valid issues?

[ChiefT]

Nobody will be endangered because a pilot is 65. There are some conditions to fulfil.
One is, that there will be no complete crew above 60. They have their medical as well. So where do you see a passenger endangered, if a pilot in the age of 65 is at the flight deck?

[nonsense]

I always love this calculation of losses...
LH loses 48 M€ on three days, this obviously means they make 5.8 G€ (365*48M/3) every year.
Did I misunderstand Mathematics, or do the LH people simply put rhetoric pressure on the pilots, having fully valid issues?

You misunderstand mathematics.

Lufthansa don't take 48M€ off its passengers in a normal three days and move them about at no cost; as we surely all understand, airlines are very much a matter of margins; the costs are huge, the revenue is huge, the difference is the profit or loss. And when the revenue goes away, many of the costs don't.

At its most basic, 48M€ is the lost revenue minus the costs avoided - unpaid wages for striking pilots and fuel not burnt.

For example if the normal expected revenue without the strike was 90M€, the normal expected cost of operation for that period was 89M€, then normal profit for the three days would be 1M€ and annual profit would be about 122M€ per year.

If the cost of fuel and pilot's wages saved was 42M€, but the lost revenue was 90M€, then instead of making 90M€-89M€ = +1M€, they'll save 42M€ but lose 90M€, making 42M€-90M€ = -48M€.

A 48M€ loss, and a huge hole in the annual profit.

And that's with no allowance at all for damage to the reputation of the business or for the people who planned to fly Lufthansa one way during the strike and the opposite direction before or afterwards, who are forced by an industry that largely runs on return tickets to fly both legs with someone else.

I am reluctant to believe that this level of mathematics or accounting is beyond anyone who is capable of obtaining a pilots licence.

[Superpilot]

It's not difficult but one clearly needs the time to work it all out. Time that is not readily available for most people. ;)

[Hussar 54]

Slight thread drift, but while we're talking about Lufthansa....

For quite a few years, I've been trying to point out here on PPRuNe the remarkable ease with which Lufthansa has been able to overcome any EU competition concerns when they have bought or invested in various carriers - Swiss, Austrian, BMI, SN Brussels, Germanwings, et al....Certainly when compared to the hoops that BA has had to jump through over the years, and also compared to the EU's outright opposition to Government funding for the likes of Alitalia and Malev while turning a blind eye to the 'Regional Incentives' picked up in the millions by Ryanair and some other LoCos....

By amazing coincidence, just as Lufthansa has a slight problem on their horizon, the EU has almost simultaneously announced that it is to investigate two recent airline deals -

Etihad's investment in Air Berlin - which, again, by complete coincidence just happens to be Lufthansa's only serious competitor in the German market....

Delta's investment in Virgin - which the EU seemed to ignore for years when the same investment was in the hands of Lufthansa's Asian partner, but is now to be retrospectively investigated just a year or so after the EU originally gave the go-ahead for Delta to purchase Singapore's holding in Virgin....

Now I happen to be seriously concerned about the involvement of these Government backed ME carriers outside of their own geography, and the damage they have inflicted on many US and European legacy carriers - enough to have made me question on here, in the past, the EU's lack of interest in ensuring a level playing field for European carriers....It always seemed to me to be stupid that the EU has contributed to the troubles at Olympic, Alitalia, and effectively closed Malev, by specifically denying the ability of EU governments to support their own nations' airlines with their own citizens' taxes whilst at the same time providing an open door for these ME state backed carriers....

But as soon as Lufthansa feels it might be disadvantaged by another mega carrier investing in one of its major competitors, the EU springs into action....And then reopens its file on the Delta / Virgin deal....

Coincidence, I'm sure....

[FoxHunter]

blind pew
Good luck to them...at least they aren't endangering everyone by flying until 65.


Looks like the change to age 65 resulted in the best safety record in the history of the airline industry.:ok:

[Bigmouth]

LH is going on strike for better pay and working conditions. And instead of supporting them, ppruners mock them. These days, it appears, our goal is working for Mickey Mouse Airlines while lowballing everybody else.

[golfyankeesierra]

Its units Swiss, Austrian, Eurowings, CityLine, Air Dolomiti, plus partner Brussels Airlines, would use larger aircraft on routes to and from Germany where possible.
I wonder what the unions of said companies will say about taking over some of LH's product

[Alexander de Meerkat]

I am 54 and intend to enjoy commercial flying until I am 65. I do not accept it is a 'young man's game' - it is a game for anyone who has the heart to still do it. I have no ex-wives, but I do love flying and will do it as long as I am able.

Regarding the decision to strike by Lufthansa pilots, I am sure they have their reasons. Past experience suggests that legacy carriers enjoy a massive level of support from their passengers that we in the loco world would simply never have. Nonetheless, this cannot be good news and will not be seen as that by the people in charge. I have always seen this type of thing as an absolute last resort, but that view is not shared. Even if you are Lufthansa you only get a certain amount of slack from your loyal customers. There is not shortage of companies like our own champing at the bit to take their customers. We will have to see who the winners and losers are.

[exeng]

Talk about a thread drift.

I'm nearly 62 and it is I who is awake at 10,000 ft in the climb on a 6 hour night sector leaving at 01:00 hrs. (F/O Snzzzzzzzzzzzzzz) This is after stating that if you are tired in the cruise please tell me and we will have controlled naps. Happened twice in the last two years.

Told to take up the hold over the airport VOR. The senior and young F/O repeatedly tries to enter in the FMC (its not sequenced in the legs), I have a brief go (failed) so say just do it manually (I meant twiddle the heading nob). At this point he just said to me "you have control" - and this was on exact direct entry to the hold!

Countless other stories, most regarding basic handling problems which should have been sorted out before the F/O's reached 3000 hors.

At 62 I do believe I am still doing the public a service. Whatever, they are still paying me for it so I must suppose they believe they are getting some value.

It's a young mans game and not for old f@rts like me.

I would have to say that you have to make the call on that personally - as you obviously have done. However do not generalise in age or anything else - you may be surprised just by what some other people are capable of.

[deefer dog]

Good luck guys....bravo for having the balls to strike!

[Best foot forward]

Ditto what Deefer Dog said. Good luck.

[nugpot]

It is a real shame that as pilots we only have the blunt instrument of industrial action/strike when negotiations fail. It does nothing for our image with the general public, who have no understanding that pilots (as long term employees and more than any other mustering in an airline) have a vested interest in the health and wealth of the airline and that the decision to strike is always an absolutely last resort.

Good luck LH colleagues!

[AviatorDave]

Well, the instrument of strike is not really blunt. A pilot strike can put some real pressure on an employer, and an angry public certainly helps to increase this pressure.
Some uneducated people that don't (want to) understand what pilots are fighting for are what I would consider collateral damage.
Of course, the press tries to whip it up against the oh-so-overpaid-get-tons-of-money-for-lazily-pushing-some-buttons pilots and tries to stir anti-pilot sentiments, but a lot of sensible and informed folks do get the pilots' points.

Compared to strikes e. g. in the IT sector (which I haven't heard about yet, but not all is going well there either with all that outsourcing to Asia and cost cutting), pilots are in a much better position to lend weight to their issues.
If IT guys went on strike, well ... hardly any employer would seriously care.

[Old Carthusian]

There are no high minded principles involved in this dispute just a desire to maintain a rather privileged situation by the pilots and a desire to eliminate it by the company. That being said this post does not represent any judgement on who is correct in this dispute.

[Metro man]

As long as Lufthansa's customers are happy to continue paying the higher airfares needed to support the pilots generous packages, the company remains profitable and isn't begging for taxpayer handouts then I can see no problem.

It's the old legacy airlines which cling to outdated working practices, pay the staff more than they are worth and expect government handouts to keep it all going that are the problem.

A quality service requires better staff who expect to be paid more. If the customer is prepared to pay extra to fly Lufthansa instead of Ryanair then fair enough.

[main_dog]

As long as Lufthansa's customers are happy to continue paying the higher airfares needed to support the pilots generous packages, the company remains profitable and isn't begging for taxpayer handouts then I can see no problem.

I also doubt the cost of LH pilot labour amounts to more than a few percentage points of LH's total costs. As usual we pilots overestimate our cost to the operation and underestimate our value, almost as if deep down we felt we shouldn't be paid as much as we are for a job we often love. Typically, we would rather drag down colleagues with better Terms and Conditions to our level, rather than aspire to raise our package to their level.

I say good luck to our LH colleagues.

[Leg]

Bigmouth, it's because proon is not for pilots anymore, it's full of spotters... :ugh:

Main dog, excellent post, spot on 100% my man.

Never ceases to amaze me that as professional flight crew there are some among us who wish to assist management in the race to the bottom. They must be management wannabes, turkey's don't vote for Christmas. :=

[Sqwak7700]

I salute you guys, thank you for standing up to the continuous decline in our profession. I don't care how much it costs them, obviously, they can afford it. Because fixing the problem would be a lot cheaper than letting you go on strike.

I wish we had as many willing professionals showing such unity in my patch of grass.

Best of luck. :ok:

[Mark in CA]

From today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/business/international/for-many-germans-pilots-walkout-crosses-a-line.html

Some strong whiffs of elitism on this board, not unlike what one encounters with some doctors. Yes, we all know about and appreciate your professionalism, but you should not be surprised when many in the general population find it difficult to sympathize with those earning four to five times what they earn who then go on strike because they don't want to be forced to wait until they are 61 to retire. I'm not making any judgment about that, but you also can't avoid human nature, especially in these economic times.

[Gretchenfrage]

Young people strive to get the best jobs. When they fail assessment or tests they subsequently take up the B or C-team jobs and henceforth tune in to the shallow song of mainstream media shouting down the top earners.



Talent follows renumeration, i guess the romantic communist principles have sufficiently proven wrong. If unilateral reductions from regular employers are to be the norm, talent will go the other way. Most probably more sleazy lawyers and rogue bankers, that's where today's government allows the big buck to remain.


When the bigmouthed shouters mentioned above have their own contracts unilaterally changed, they go on strike. Why not, it's their right. When other go on strike and mess up the cosy everyday of Mr. and Mrs. Everybody, they are blamed. Normally it's called double standard.


When accidents happen the same shouters from all sides call for better quality, better training, better everything. That there needs to be talent to achieve this is brushed under the carpet, the industry says everyone is capable of doing right with the adequate training AND (certainly) their superior product .... They are constantly proven wrong.

When the very same shouters go to purchase their next air travel ticket, they only look at the price. Everything above is forgotten.

The conditions for the LH colleagues might be high, but don't we all wish to have the same? Don't we feel deep down that we deserve the same?

If not, i feel sorry for you having failed the assessment!

[AviatorDave]

From today's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/business/international/for-many-germans-pilots-walkout-crosses-a-line.html

Some strong whiffs of elitism on this board, not unlike what one encounters with some doctors. Yes, we all know about and appreciate your professionalism, but you should not be surprised when many in the general population find it difficult to sympathize with those earning four to five times what they earn who then go on strike because they don't want to be forced to wait until they are 61 to retire. I'm not making any judgment about that, but you also can't avoid human nature, especially in these economic times.

Most criticism comes from the folks who work for peanuts because they and their pals have either missed or failed to fight for their compensation.
Instead of supporting those who strive to preserve a decent work environment, people are envious. "Why should you do better than us" is the common phrase, which shows how much disunited employers already are when it comes to standing against decaying wages and work conditions.

[BRE]

Well, my impression is that the NYT article is not representing the mainstream of public opion, not even the full reporting in business friendly publications like Handelsblatt.

VC has a good reputation as an advocate for flight safety, and they were up to now not being perceived as an aggressive player in labor conflicts. The norm in Germany is that there is only one union representing all employees in a company, so e.g. for Siemens and BMW, it's the metal worker's union which will also do negotiations on behalf of the engineers, the administrators, the cooks and the janitors (unless these service jobs have been outsourced, that is).

Resentment from the big unions usually surfaces when there is a specialty union representing only one profession with a small number of employees that can do maximum damage calls a strike to demand substantially more than the big unions are able to negotiate for the rest of the employees, e.g UFO (LH cabin crew), GdL (traindrivers) or in this case VC.

One the one hand, VC are calling for a 10% raise and a continuation of the generous retirement package (the total amount of the retirement fund is 12 bn €, about half of LH's total retirement obligations), on the other hand LH management has been aggressively slashing employee benefits and promising its shareholders (three anglo funds being the largest with a total of 15%) 2.3 bn € operating profit for next year.



Interesting graphic about pilot pay:
http://www.handelsblatt.com/images/infografik-pilotengehaelter_serioes_md-logo/9685008/1-formatOriginal.jpg

Now why are some major players like AF missing?

How do Etihad and the likes get away with paying so little?

[737Jock]

http://www.handelsblatt.com/images/infografik-pilotengehaelter_serioes_md-logo/9685008/1-formatOriginal.jpg

Because the table is completely wrong

Easyjet Spain doesn't even exist anymore.

EasyJet France: captain starting at 132.000 basic + sector pay
Considering guaranteed loyalty pay (5% 3 years in company, 10% 5 years in company, 15% 10 years in company, payable every year not just anniversaries), so year 10 in company (not rank) this becomes 151.800 + sector pay maximum. Sector pay is about 20k a year.
Euros offcourse.

Easyjet UK: approx 110k basic + sector pay. Loyalty pay is the same as above. Rising to approx 125k basic + sector pay. Values in euros, converted with 1.20 exchange rate

Salaries in ethihad emirates are taxfree. Plus I believe the numbers are wrong. They would do better comparing take-home pay!

Anyway to me it looks like someone is trying very hard to make it look like Lufthansa pilots earn double of most their colleagues in other airlines... Which is simply not true.

[SOPS]

As far as that table goes, it seems to be missing quite a bit in regards to EK. I'm not sure where the numbers come from.

[ChiefT]

Just got some facts out of a German news magazine; please excuse the possibly bad translation:


How much pilots really work? What do they earn? How much does Lufthansa cost the strike? A compilation.


+ 29 to 33 months at least takes the training to become a commercial airline pilot at Bremen Pilot School of Lufthansa.

+ Approximately 30 percent of income improvements have fought after several work stoppages in 2001 by the pilots and their union cockpit.

+ 40 percent of total pension expenses, which makes Lufthansa for about 84,000 active or former employees in the country, benefit the approximately 8,400 pilots, ten percent of the workforce.
About 60 percent of the month is a pilot working - only a third of the time he is at home.

+ By 60 percent, to more than a billion euros, Lufthansa has increased its profit in 2013, when all non-recurring items are eliminated from the result.

+ 80 hours flight service per month pilots may operate in the cockpit according to the law. A flight operation can take up to 16 hours including preparation and waiting times. Overall, a 40-hour week.

+ The pilots of Lufthansa and German Wings fly their customers, according to the coming summer flight schedule, to 235 destinations in 78 countries.

+ 3800 flights are canceled during the three-day strike.

+ 5400 pilots pare on strike from Wednesday to Friday.

+ 20,000 additional passengers per day will use the train Deutsche Bahn, on Friday there will be more.

+ 60,000 to 80,000 euros does it cost to become a commercial pilot, according to the union Vereinigung Cockpit.

+ Up to 124.000 € per year is in the transitional care for a 55-year-old captain to the entrance to the official retirement age of 65.

+ 150,000 e-mails and text messages with strike information Lufthansa has sent to their customers.

+ Up to 150,000 Euro per year earning the captains of the Lufthansa Group belonging Swiss.

+ Around 260,000 euros, including allowances, per year earned a Lufthansa pilot who has been through all salary levels in the course of his career.

+ 425,000 passengers of Lufthansa and German Wings are affected by the three day strike.

+ In the "mid single digit" millions of lost revenue to the airport will be missed by Passenger, takeoff and landing fees, according to the airport operator Fraport.

+ With around 25 million euros costs every day of the strike; LH estimates a "high double-digit millions" loss for the three days off.

+ 104.6 million passengers carried by Lufthansa German Wings, Swiss and Austrian Airlines in 2013.

+ 181 million passengers took off and landed at German airports in 2013, the daily average of just under 500,000 passengers.

+ More than 1 billion euros has made provisions for the retirement of its pilots with 55 years Lufthansa.

+ Around 2.6 billion passengers were transported, according to the Federal Statistical Office in 2012 over the rail, which are 14 times as many travelers as in air traffic.

+ 5.9 billion euros spent the Lufthansa Group in 2013 for the salaries and wages and nearly 1.5 billion euros for social security or pensions.

Source: http://www.spiegel.de/reise/aktuell/lufthansa-streik-piloten-verdienen-260-000-euro-im-jahr-a-962200.html

[Admiral346]

ChiefT, quoting without naming the source is not common practice anywhere.

The source is "Der Spiegel online".

And it is a bunch of nonsense.

I am too lazy to think about each one, but

80 hours flight service per month pilots may operate in the cockpit according to the law. A flight operation can take up to 16 hours including preparation and waiting times. Overall, a 40-hour week.

is obviously wrong.

As a pilot you should know this. Also the max hours can be increased with enlarged crew.

[Jwscud]

Heard plenty of Lufty call signs over the fatherland today, so strike clearly isn't total grounding.

[ChiefT]

With regards to this table http://www.handelsblatt.com/images/infografik-pilotengehaelter_serioes_md-logo/9685008/1-formatOriginal.jpg and from where the figures come: Have a look at the bottom of the table, where all sources are named. ;)

[ChiefT]

Well, "Admiral346", if pointing on a fail, then you should be able to name the source correctly.

But thanks, I simply forgot it and added it already.

In content, it is not necessarily my opinion; I simply posted the facts published by DER SPIEGEL. Nothing else.

[altiplano]

Good for LH pilots! I am behind them standing up for our profession 100%.

Really happy to see them stand up for the next generation hired after 2014. No two-tier B-scale solutions. It only serves to divide.

... and for those working at LCCs or others who think Legacy carriers have it too good - remember that is the bar that your scale is based from. If it goes down for them - it will surely go down at a LCCs and non-union shops to match.

It's their right to negotiate and if you have a problem with it and want to just get what you are told go to China.

[foxcharliep2]

@ Hussar 54

You write :
By amazing coincidence, just as Lufthansa has a slight problem on their horizon, the EU has almost simultaneously announced that it is to investigate two recent airline deals -

Etihad's investment in Air Berlin - which, again, by complete coincidence just happens to be Lufthansa's only serious competitor in the German market....


That is utter :mad: .

The reason Air Berlin is investigated is becuse it has failed to report the annual numbers in time and has delayed it twice, which is not permitted by German law.
Also, the capital lenders want to take it out of the stock exchange so as to not to endanger landing rights in case of an Etihad majority stake.

Get your facts right before you step into merde.

Wishing LH pilots the best.

[Hussar 54]

Yes, you're absolutely correct - Air Berlin has failed to file its financial statements on time....Which in every EU country is a criminal offence to be resolved by each individual country's financial and tax authorities....

It is estimated that at any moment in time over a million corporate entities around the EU ( whether major publically quoted companies such as Air Berlin, or whether Joe Soap's one-man painting and decorating company ) are late filing their accounts, but I don't recall, ever, the EU deciding that one of their zillions of commissions is going to investigate the circumstances of why one of these millions of companies is late with its filing....

So I wonder why they have now suddenly decided that it needs an EU commission to investigate the reason why Air Berlin are late filing their financial statements....

The answer is, in fact, they haven't....The EU has stated that it is a question of who controls Air Berlin, and just because Etihad have only a minority stake in Air Berlin, it doesn't mean that they don't control Air Berlin....

Shareholdings In European Airlines Face EC Scrutiny (http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/avd_03_28_2014_p01-01-675798.xml)

And while they're at it, good old Lufthansa are complaining about Etihad's possible rescue of Alitalia....

And so Delta's investment in Virgin now gets dragged in as well, although it seemed OK when this shareholding was in Singapore's hands....

But without Etihad, Air Berlin is a goner....And let's just have a guess - who has most to gain from Air Berlin going under ??

Wake up at the back !!

[Thin Albert]

The Same Clown , CEO Franz, who forced Swiss Pilots in 2005/2006 , ging on Strike, tries it now with LH Pilots, good try, maybe he should distribute Croissants in the Terminal like he did. in 2006!
Keep going guys, dont let ihm pull down the Standard!!!:D

[heavy.airbourne]

@Hussar 54: Welcome to my ignore list! :ok:

[RTO]

Now I happen to be seriously concerned about the involvement of these Government backed ME carriers outside of their own geography, and the damage they have inflicted on many US and European legacy carriers - enough to have made me question on here, in the past, the EU's lack of interest in ensuring a level playing field for European carriers....It always seemed to me to be stupid that the EU has contributed to the troubles at Olympic, Alitalia, and effectively closed Malev, by specifically denying the ability of EU governments to support their own nations' airlines with their own citizens' taxes whilst at the same time providing an open door for these ME state backed carriers....

How do you expect EU to save us from the arabs, when we have Norwegian bending the playing field and destroying the business right in our back yard, all with EU's blessings?

[Hussar 54]

AIRBOURNE....

Why ?

Edited to add that 12 hours later I see that Airbourne perhaps works for LH....

If so, good luck with the strike if you've joined in - it's your company that I have a problem with, not you guys...

[foxcharliep2]

Hussar 54 :

If so, good luck with the strike if you've joined in - it's your company that I have a problem with, not you guys...

When you're in a hole ... stop digging :=

[Hussar 54]

I think you're probably right....

So here goes....

Greedy Lufthansa Skygods....Already the best paid in Europe and they still want more....:mad: !

There you are....Feel better ?

If, on the other hand, you prefer the twin benefits for Lufthansa of ( 1 ) Air Berlin going down the tubes and around 2,000 flight crew hitting the unemployent lines and ( 2 ) Lufthansa having a 90% plus market share on routes between Germany <> Austria <> Switzerland <> Belgium with Air Berlin out of the way, then just continue to ignore Lufthansa's spoiling tactics....

Big business and politics in Germany is an old boys network, and the relationship between Lufthansa and the EC Commissioners is unhealthy...

Don't agree with me ??

Etihad buys a minority stake in Air Berlin....Lufthansa cries foul....And the EC decide this merits an investigation....

SUBSIDIARIES OF THE LUFTHANSA GROUP

Cityline – wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa March 1992
Luxair – owned 13% acquired December 1992
BMI – acquired 20% of BMI, July 1999
Air Dolomiti – wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2003
Eurowings – wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa December 2006
Germanwings – wholly owned 100%, acquired via Eurowings December 2006
Sun Express – owned 50%, acquired February 2007
BMI – acquired further 10% of BMI, July 2007
Swiss International – wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa July 2007
AeroLogic – owned 50% since September 2007
Jet Blue Airways – owned 15.8% since December 2007
Brussels Airlines – owned 45% since September 2008 with an option to purchase the remaining 55%
BMI – acquired remaining 50% of BMI, October 2008
Eidelweiss – wholly owned 100%, acquired via Swiss International November 2008
Austrian Airlines – wholly owned 100%, acquired by Lufthansa September 2009
Tyrolean Airways – wholly owned 100%, acquired via Austrian September 2009
BMI – sold 100% to IAG, March 2012

Amazingly, only two of these 16 acquisitions and the single disposal attracted the attention of the EC’s Competition Commissioners –

In June 2008, the Austrian Government were advised to sell AUA to foreign ownership, and Aeroflot, Singapore Airlines, Turkish Airlines, BA, AF-KLM, S7 and Lufthansa all approached the Austrian Government as potential buyers. In September 2008, it was announced that Lufthansa had been selected as the buyer. In July 2009, the EC finally agreed to an enquiry into the deal, after it was revealed that the Austrian Government had committed to provide the airline with a €500 million restructuring grant ‘ once the deal has been closed ‘ AF – KL complained that this had not been openly communicated to the other companies interested in acquiring AUA, but the Austrian Government refused to hold a re-tendering process and completed a deal with Lufthansa. The EC stated that it had suspicions that ‘ The tendering process was a fake one, everything having already been decided in favour of Lufthansa ‘ Just three months later, the Commission waived the deal through after Lufthansa ‘ agreed to change the structure of the deal retrospectively ‘.

And the disposal of BMI to IAG in 2012 was only allowed to proceed by the EC Competition Commission after IAG agreed to give up 14 slots at Heathrow. But as an IAG Senior Manager reportedly said to a Press Briefing at the time ‘ It’s a small price to pay, because if wasn’t Lufthansa selling it to us, we certainly wouldn’t have been allowed to buy BMI ‘.

You're not Lufthansa management yourself, are you ? Just asking, because I seem to have touched a nerve with yourself and Airbourne...

[lederhosen]

The main issue according to the VC website (union) is the right to retire at 55. Their standpoint is that this is effectively cost neutral as the older pilots cost more and replacement pilots start at the bottom of the pay scale so cost less. They go on to say that this is already paid for, so is already in the pension pot. At first sight this argument seems to have some merit.

However so far I have not seen any concrete numbers. The counter argument would be that as life expectancy increases and investment returns decrease most pension funds and indeed state pension schemes are facing huge deficits. I confess I do not know the details of the LH scheme's funding. But I would be amazed if it is does not face some of these issues.

Lufthansa shut down the network for three days and anounced a strike cost in the tens of millions. But they have said they do not intend to make a better offer. The suspicion must be that LH management have picked where they want to fight.

[foxcharliep2]

Hussar 54

You're not Lufthansa management yourself, are you ? Just asking, because I seem to have touched a nerve with yourself and Airbourne... Nope, retired at 56 some years back and enjoying life... :cool:

... so keep digging, it's your hole and I couldn't care less about your foggy theories, hope they keep giving you a nice heartburn ... :p

[Hussar 54]

You must have been an absolute joy to work with...

OK...Over and out...

[His dudeness]

Etihad buys a minority stake in Air Berlin....Lufthansa cries foul....And the EC decide this merits an investigation....

Thats easy: Etihad = non EU outfit, LH = EU outfit.


And if you honestly think Etihad & the other guys from the gulf play on an even field, then you are most likely really ...... .

[ROSCO328]

Best of luck to the LH pilots!! 100% support your actions!! :ok:

[jetopa]

I disapprove some of my LH colleagues' snotty attitude, whining about their tough working conditions, covering different time zones and climates, working at night etc..

But they are right.

It only takes one high profile mishap which can be attributed to bad decision making, flawed maintenance or whatever and the jobs of an entire company are in danger. So, in principle I do support their fight against deteriorating working conditions of the industry as a whole because: everybody's watching this fight.

And why on earth should LH pilots pay for their managements flawed decisions in the past? I don't see why they should.

Maintaining airplanes is expensive, training good people is expensive. Cutting cost and cutting corners cannot be the universal solution.

The question should be: where is a viable concept? How does LH intend to deal with the LCCs in Europe and the competition on the long haul in the ME or in Turkey, for example? I cannot see one and that's why I as a passenger am asking myself: what do I get for paying extra flying with LH (or 4U)?

The question is also a strategic one and has to do with what sort of airline industry Europe wants and what it is ready to pay for that. As long as there is no clear concept nor unified efforts, LH is fighting an uphill battle that they cannot win.

Also true: if the LH pilots really cared about the future of their employer, they should join the forces with their colleagues in the cabin and on the ground. Because: they are already paying the price for a downsizing of salaries.

Good luck though!

[Hussar 54]

Surprised no mention of yet another strike....

That's what - 11 in just over a year ?

Can't imagine the comments and frog-bashing we'd have on here if this was happening at Air France....

But genuinely glad to see that there are some pilot groups who still have the balls to try to halt the race to the bottom....

Pilots' union calls two-day strike at Lufthansa's Germanwings | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/02/10/uk-lufthansa-strike-germanwings-idUKKBN0LE2TB20150210)

[Zephyr1977]

Absolute support to Vereinigung Cockpit! We must understand that we are all in same business and must suppott each other in this hard moments for pilots worldwide.. We must not be vane, jealous..

[Hussar 54]

And another....

Lufthansa Pilots Union Calls 12th Strike Over Benefits - Bloomberg Business (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-17/lufthansa-pilots-union-calls-12th-strike-over-retirement-plans)

[B-HKD]

This is what the ground crews have to say about it:

This ACARS message was sent from the CYVR ground crew to DLH493 YVR-FRA on 19/3/2015.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10603671_10206441557827614_3703808521908333650_n.jpg?oh=02e8 2293ec2b84399f5c600543bfa403&oe=55B3F5E9&__gda__=1438484118_0c392064f9d6a622d9a1657d0a9eb3ad

[Dufo]

Really professional. Especially the 'we hate you' part.

[B-HKD]

LH managed to operate about 60% of the longhaul flights scheduled on the 19th. Some flights being covered by management pilots, while others who would otherwise be striking have no problem operating the flight as scheduled as it is their ride home...

[Global_Global]

In view of the current onslaught by the ME3 and as they are facing the consequences I think that the groundcrew have a good point... :cool:

Whether it was a good way to pass the message is to be debated...

[Reimers]

f i l l e r s

[Cliff Secord]

Quote from Old Cathusian

There are no high minded principles involved in this dispute just a desire to maintain a rather privileged situation by the pilots and a desire to eliminate it by the company. That being said this post does not represent any judgement on who is correct in this dispute.


I think this is well put. I'm a long in the tooth unapologetic person when it comes to this subject. You fight for your terms because you want your terms. You don't use tenuous, barely believable ideas or threats (such as "smoking holes" when talking about experience levels). Call a spade a spade. Companies themselves fight for work because they want money. They don't throw a tantrum if they don't win that ACMI contract, citing ideals. It's dog eat and they treat us the same. So we as workers have to treat them the same. The toothless get ruthless.

A comment further back alluded to public blaming LH and getting annoyed with the company for this. In my opinion striking never garners public support. Well it does, unless they're a customer! In the minors strikes the lights go out or in this case you miss your holiday. Then you can bet your ass it won't be the company they're annoyed with. It'll be those " £&)@ pilots"!!!! That's the downside to striking, but you're not doing it to win public support. It's last resort time.

[McBruce]

Wouldn't like to be dispatching LH flights out of YVR in the very near future, better be a flawless turn :E

It's good to see a workforce not accept the constant onslaught of reductions to contracts/agreements. If legacy carriers loose the fight in this area we are all screwed.

[olster]

The person(s) who sent that acars to an operational crew should be sacked immediately. The implications from the CRM perspective are significant. The lack of understanding from ground personnel on the technical complexities of operating a modern jet transport are mind blowing yet we all work in the same industry. It is probably inconvenient to rebook a wide body load of passengers but the industrial relations between LH and the pilot group has nothing to do with check in agents. The lack of respect for the pilots demonstrated here is a result of the 'dumbing - down' of the industry which resonates conveniently with the bean counter view of pilots as overpaid bus drivers. I am actually shocked by the vindictive nature of this acars; I very much hope that the LH crew reported this and disciplinary action followed by immediate termination of the jobs of those responsible has taken place.

[Plastic787]

Hear hear to the above post

[Bokkenrijder]

Good luck to them...at least they aren't endangering everyone by flying until 65.:ok:
Spot on! I would fly with Lufthansa any day! They have an excellent safety record and product, and all employees of DLH (Deutsche Luft Hansa) IMHO deserve a decent salary and decent working conditions!

Besides, why work yourself to death? DLH pilots obviously understand that working harder and harder for less and less money is a death spiral, and that the only thing that will improve in the company will the bonus of their managers.

That ACARS from YYR is nothing short of pure mobbing and DLH management should perhaps start with cutting pay and benefits of those YYR 'volunteers.'

[FRying]

These german boys and girls REALLY impress me !

At least some pilots have b@lls on this continent, unlike...the remainder.

[sidtheesexist]

Good luck to em all! Maybe we could get their union officials to pop over to Blighty and instill some Teutonic Steel into BALPA......Better still, how about getting them to represent us? I certainly voted with my feet. I salute the cajones of my Saxon colleagues ;)

[wiggy]

Maybe we could get their union officials to pop over to Blighty and instill some Teutonic Steel into BALPA......Better still, how about getting them to represent us?

..it might be even better still get "them" to change UK Industrial Relations legislation to match the Teutonic version.

[Greenlights]

like Air france, I think this strike will be completely useless unfortunately.
AF is sinking, there is no way out.

[lederhosen]

I posted nearly a year ago (post 43) that there is more to this than meets the eye and that management appear to have picked where they want to fight. Their resolve may well be reinforced by the government's stance on reducing the power of smaller unions. Train drivers are also in the spotlight.

The current argument about the final salary pension has been described by some as a 'Platzhalter' or surrogate for the real issues, which by law the pilots could not strike about.

I personally know people who have left the union and others that are actually retiring early because they do not think the current pension scheme will continue.

The latest twist is the cabin crew union offering to act as mediator. Imagine that at BA! The new boss Spohr is (was?) an LH pilot and I would be amazed if he gives in.

[blind pew]

If Aeropers and it's members had more balls then Swissair would probably still exist...it didn't and started screwing the unions in the 80s...first of all the catering...created a new company and paid the workers 20% less...no one stood up for them...similarly Swissport...and a few others...building up Crossair - I was at a meeting with the chief pilot who was warned they would have a major accident...they had two...then they stopped our profit sharing and inflation pay rises.

Strangely the Swiss admired Thatcher who destroyed the British Unions and huge cost to the UK...They didn't understand why Britain had such strong unions...my explanation was ignorant, bullying management - which was why Balpa was strong in my days in BEA.

[Tourist]

Yes, Blind Pew.

Thatcher was really bad for Britain, and the Unions were what was keeping Britain strong and world beating......:rolleyes:



Before thatcher the unions were to strong, crippling the country now they are too weak. That is the nature of all such things. They are cyclic.

Between the two extremes are the good times.

Back then we needed Thatcher desperately. Now we need a little bit of good Union leadership.

[blind pew]

Or just honest leadership

[wondering]

The current argument about the final salary pension has been described by some as a 'Platzhalter' or surrogate for the real issues, which by law the pilots could not strike about.

Everybody looking behind the curtain knows that the real issue is 'Wings' and its implication on mainline.