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er340790
31st Mar 2014, 15:39
Was talking to a Dr. last night whose specialty is Infectious Diseases. To say he is alarmed at the latest Ebola outbreak(s) would be an understatement.

Apparently Ebola has now spread to Liberia from Guinea (78 confirmed deaths). Senegal has also closed its border with Guinea. Also unconfirmed cases in Sierra Leone.

More worryingly, this time it has spread from its usual remote village / rain-forest areas to Conakry - the capital of 2 million - whose airport has flights throughout Africa and direct to Paris, Brussels and Dubai...

Considering that this disease kills 90% of those affected, the world media seems pretty muted about it. :confused:

Wondering if it might be time to stock-up the cabin???

SpringHeeledJack
31st Mar 2014, 15:54
Wondering if it might be time to stock-up the cabin???

It helps if one has a cabin to get away from the masses in the first place I'd wager :hmm: Yes these types of disease are a threat and if they get going it will be problematic to control their trajectory within the masses. The threat of losing so many tax payers might kick western governments into taking preventative action before things get out of control.



SHJ

tony draper
31st Mar 2014, 16:03
No doubt the fluffies will soon be demanding all those stricken be allowed to come here for treatment.
:uhoh:

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 16:03
Never mind EBOLA scary as that is they do believe that TB is once again going hit us hard.

500N
31st Mar 2014, 16:10
Tom

Why is that ?


What has made TB rise up ?


It is virtually unheard of in Canada, the US and UK, unlike here in Aus where it is still around in some places.

racedo
31st Mar 2014, 16:15
"Getting out of the UK without leaving a trace would be the most difficult to achieve,"

TB an issue in particular it seems with UK resident from SE Asia.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/majority-of-london-tb-cases-are-in-non-recent-entrants-to-uk

er340790
31st Mar 2014, 16:20
CDC Update - 27 March

Outbreak of Ebola in Guinea | Ebola | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/guinea/index.html)

Lon More
31st Mar 2014, 16:21
the world media seems pretty muted about it

It'll appear on the front page of the Fail, probably in about a year's time

500N
31st Mar 2014, 16:27
A mate of mine got TB from eating infected Buffalo meat.

He's fine and just carries on as normal, isn't a danger to anyone.

awblain
31st Mar 2014, 16:32
Same old story, outbreak of Ebola (or some other hemorrhagic fever) in central Africa, tens or hundreds die, outbreak ends due to quarantine, and careful handling of the victims.

Not that it's not serious, but it's not obviously anything for a Canadian to worry about.

In a world where media's dominated by the availability of photos and video, there's no-one wanting to go and take any of this here, and those treating the sick don't want anyone coming and going, so the story doesn't run.

rgbrock1
31st Mar 2014, 16:52
er34 wrote:

Considering that this disease kills 90% of those affected, the world media seems pretty muted about it

The world's media seems pretty muted about it because they're spending most of their time with "Breaking News" about MH370. (Not that there is one iota of breaking news as far as that's concerned.)

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 16:58
It is not the riskiest of diseases, despite the fatality rate. It develops fast and requires transmission by blood, body fluids or tissues. This makes it hard to contract provided sensible measures are taken. To quote from the WHO's website today.

WHO does not recommend that any travel or trade restrictions be applied to Liberia, Guinea or Sierra Leone based on the current information available for this event.

There is, of course, the risk of a huge death toll in squalid, overcrowded conditions where superstition forms a large part of people's attitudes.

racedo
31st Mar 2014, 17:02
There is, of course, the risk of a huge death toll in squalid, overcrowded conditions where superstition forms a large part of people's attitudes.

There goes London.................

air pig
31st Mar 2014, 17:05
A mate of mine got TB from eating infected Buffalo meat.

He's fine and just carries on as normal, isn't a danger to anyone.

It is if it's multi drug resistant.

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 17:11
Tom

Why is that ?


What has made TB rise up ?


It is virtually unheard of in Canada, the US and UK, unlike here in Aus where it is still around in some places.

500N

On the contrary TB is very much present in Europe. I had thought TB had been virtually eradicated but was watching a documentary the other week on BBC four which shattered that belief. Programme highlighted the rise of multiple drug resistant TB (MDR) is Swaziland. It's a horrible disease which is easily transmitted (airborne) and can lay dormant in your body for years. The current vaccine is some 40 years old and with the global explosion in air travel the experts are taking the threat seriously. The vaccines we presently have are completely ineffective against the XDR variant of TB which is fatal. I don't have any links to hand but I do know that the rate of TB diagnosis in London is presently giving the health authorities in UK concern.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-14902186 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-
14902186)

UK risks time bomb of untreatable TB as number of drug-resistant cases rises rapidly - Health News - Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/uk-risks-time-bomb-of-untreatable-tb-as-number-of-drugresistant-cases-rises-rapidly-8547108.html)

ps, never heard of anyone getting TB by eating something - it's an airborne disease. I guess if some spittal had contaminated uncooked food which was subsequently eaten. Normal transmission path is from person to person. Anyway you live and learn, hope your mate is ok now.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 17:15
There goes London

"London Calling to the zombies of death,quit holding out and draw another breath.
London Calling...."

The Clash - London Calling - YouTube

cavortingcheetah
31st Mar 2014, 17:27
Cute little Chlorocebus sabaeus rises once again from the ashes of its medieval city twin town as scientists discover that bubonic plague, far from being spread by fleas, was a pneumonic plague and spread from human to human. All that's required is a long hot summer to stoke up the sepsis, so to speak. Go mercury go!

vulcanised
31st Mar 2014, 17:36
There is also the matter of TB being spread by cats.

OFSO
31st Mar 2014, 17:40
squalid, overcrowded conditions where superstition forms a large part of people's attitudes.


There goes Computer/Internet Issues & Troubleshooting

alisoncc
31st Mar 2014, 17:40
Would suggest that with all of these types of things one needs a positive outlook.

I read years ago that following the Black Death plague there was measurable and significant cooling of the planet as vast tracts of land returned to carbon-dioxide absorbing forest. So a half-way decent plague could fix up over-population, climate change and the mass movement of immigrants looking for a better economic future. There you see, good could come of it.

con-pilot
31st Mar 2014, 17:41
TB is alive and well, most prisons around the world have active TB cases.

Back in my Marshal days we had to have a TB test every six months.

What is inexcusable is the resurgence of polio. Polio was nealy completely eradicated until the Mulims started a propganda campaign against the vaccination and the workes that were vaccinating untreated children in third world countries, claiming that it was a CIA plot to make the children infertile.

Just last week a female UN aid worker in Pakistan was murdred because she was attempting to vaccinate Muslim children. The compound that her family lived in was raided, she was dragged out into the street and beaten to death.

The lists of attack on heath aid workers attempting to vaccinate children in third world coutries in Africa and in Pakistan by Muslims is nearly endless.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 17:45
We should link this up with the Sharia Law thread. Given the Black Death had a significant effect on the power of Religion, perhaps we should simply await the result of the next round of Religion vs Disease. My money's on the microbes!

con-pilot
31st Mar 2014, 17:48
My money's on the microbes!

As it has been proven in history, you are right, microbes will always win.

Oh, I forgot to add, polio has spread in Syria since the civil war has started.

sitigeltfel
31st Mar 2014, 17:51
they do believe that TB is once again going hit us hard.Oh hell, he isn't running for PM again?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 17:52
On 3rd Anniversary Of Syrian Civil War, Children Face Malnutrition, Poverty, Death (How To Help) (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/15/syria-war-children_n_4967063.html)

War, Famine, Pestilence, Death? All Four Horseman hacking across Syria.


..and the Fifth Horseman, TB himself, feels obliged to get involved too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/25/tony-blair-syria_n_3986524.html

apparently a few more bombs will help...

con-pilot
31st Mar 2014, 17:58
All Four Horseman hacking across Syria.

One would never know that if one only watched US news media. Not even the much degraded Fox News.

Obamacare and the Chris Christie troubles are much more important. :rolleyes:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 18:01
For those unfamiliar with Revelation, after the Horsemen, the next two Seals are

The fifth seal is broken revealing the souls of those who had been slain for the "Word of God".
The sixth seal is broken "and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, The sky was split apart, every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

n.b. The Horsemen were given power over a fourth of the Earth. It is possible to interpret Syria and Iraq as a quarter of the Ancient World. Just sayin'

http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/euphrates-river-valley-map.html

racedo
31st Mar 2014, 18:07
What is inexcusable is the resurgence of polio. Polio was nealy completely eradicated until the Mulims started a propganda campaign against the vaccination and the workes that were vaccinating untreated children in third world countries, claiming that it was a CIA plot to make the children infertile.

Just last week a female UN aid worker in Pakistan was murdred because she was attempting to vaccinate Muslim children. The compound that her family lived in was raided, she was dragged out into the street and beaten to death.

The lists of attack on heath aid workers attempting to vaccinate children in third world coutries in Africa and in Pakistan by Muslims is nearly endless.

CIA used Vaccination program to find Obama Bin Laden .........................not a shock people are now suspicious.

racedo
31st Mar 2014, 18:08
n.b. The Horsemen were given power over a fourth of the Earth. It is possible to interpret Syria and Iraq as a quarter of the Ancient World. Just sayin'

Aren't you a cheerful soul this last day of March.....

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 18:10
There is also the matter of TB being spread by cats.

Why would you eat a cat?:E

Ok I know, hat, coat..

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 18:15
I am a cheerful type!
In the midst of an icestorm here and lost power twice, but I have the day off work (paid) as a consequence and it's warm and dry inside.

Being Faithless, I'm not the least bothered by the ravings of some desert-dwelling fisherman.

This is the closest I get to religious experience
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NXgqFbfrd8&feature=kp

racedo
31st Mar 2014, 18:32
I am a cheerful type!
In the midst of an icestorm here and lost power twice, but I have the day off work (paid) as a consequence and it's warm and dry inside.


Oh Yeah forgot you from Saaskatoon............

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 18:34
Nope, the Maritimes; currently delightful

https://flightplanning.navcanada.ca/Latest/gfa/anglais/produits/uprair/gfa/gfacn34/Latest-gfacn34_cldwx_000.png

awblain
31st Mar 2014, 18:37
It's polio that's the best example of the difficulty of persuading superstitious dim<>?)s from threatening other people with their deranged views on the evils of immunization.

Polio was almost gone from the face of the Earth, and then the tribal areas of the 'stans screwed it up. Now it's back in northern Nigeria, taking advantage of war in Syria too.

And TB? Yes, he's still around in the middle east too.
But there is always hope of eradication, hopefully eventually by justice.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 18:41
Do you think his ex-mates in Parliament brought in the 'TB' Badger cull in the hope they could 'off' him and claim mistaken identity on account of the black and silver hair?

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 19:11
For those unfamiliar with Revelation, after the Horsemen, the next two Seals are

The fifth seal is broken revealing the souls of those who had been slain for the "Word of God".
The sixth seal is broken "and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, The sky was split apart, every mountain and island were moved out of their places."

n.b. The Horsemen were given power over a fourth of the Earth. It is possible to interpret Syria and Iraq as a quarter of the Ancient World. Just sayin'

Euphrates River Map (http://www.biblestudy.org/maps/euphrates-river-valley-map.html)


No not Syria or Iraq. If I remember from my theology class the reference to "power over a fourth of the Earth" was taken as being conferred only on the forth horseman and his mount - death. The quarter of the Earth being Hell If I also remember my theology instruction correctly - we were told to avoid any interpretation of the Book Of Revelation. :ok:

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 19:14
And TB? Yes, he's still around in the middle east too.
But there is always hope of eradication, hopefully eventually by justice.

Like smallpox it's best to keep at least a sample alive - what we need is a vacination against him - you know so he can't come back:E

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 19:26
OK, I'm happy to keep a small part of TB in a freezer in a BSL-4 containment vault! (He probably has a very small part)

p.s. thought I'd read up a bit more on "the fourth part" - boy, are there some whackos out there!

Lonewolf_50
31st Mar 2014, 19:30
Obamacare and the Chris Christie troubles are much more important. :rolleyes: Indeed they are, given that the news is being delivered to an American audience.

FFS, what is happening in Syria is happening to foreigners. Just how much do you require the average American to care about foreigners killing other foreigners? :confused:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 19:49
Further evidence the US media doesn't report good news - several bunches of Islamic extremists fighting each other in the middle of nowhere is keeping them all off your back. ;)

500N
31st Mar 2014, 19:58
Not sure you will ever eradicate TB.

Too much around in Cattle / Buffalo etc in various parts of the world,
including in some remote areas of Australia and SE Asia.

Rossian
31st Mar 2014, 20:00
.....when I went to Poland in 1999 I got chatting to a Polish army doctor and asked him why I'd "HAD to have" a diptheria jab before embarking. He said that respiratory diseases were common throughout the Baltic states and Poland and that the biggest problem was with TB. Usually it came from side effects of AIDS wich came from sharing infected needles.

"You got good advice" he said.

But as it happened I'd had TB when I was six, which came from unpasteurised milk from the local man with his horse and cart who bought dodgy milk from dodgy crofters trying to meet the demand for free school milk!

The Ancient Mariner

ExXB
31st Mar 2014, 20:08
... And let's not forget those goody goody do gooders who just know that autism is caused by immunisation. No better than the mullahs, IMHO.

500N
31st Mar 2014, 20:11
Oh yes, the do gooders !

An article in the paper the other week re where the clusters are.

Some surprising areas in both Melbourne and Sydney.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 20:50
Brain Changes in Autism Likely Start Before Birth | LiveScience (http://www.livescience.com/44409-autism-brain-changes-likely-start-before-birth.html)

say no more...

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 20:57
OK, I'm happy to keep a small part of TB in a freezer in a BSL-4 containment vault! (He probably has a very small part)

p.s. thought I'd read up a bit more on "the fourth part" - boy, are there some whackos out there!

Lol absolutely Fox3 and most of them use Revalation as a road map. In Roman Catholicism it plays a very minor role in the catechism and interpretation is held very very loosley :p

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 20:59
Not sure you will ever eradicate TB.

Too much around in Cattle / Buffalo etc in various parts of the world,
including in some remote areas of Australia and SE Asia.

Include Europe in that list as well, unfortunately.:ok:

tony draper
31st Mar 2014, 21:02
We all used to be tested for TB at school,I remember it as a special evil looking multi needled implement,dont suppose they do now,it would probably violate their human rights.
:uhoh:

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 21:04
Indeed they are, given that the news is being delivered to an American audience.

FFS, what is happening in Syria is happening to foreigners. Just how much do you require the average American to care about foreigners killing other foreigners? :confused:

We can only live in hope:ugh:

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 21:05
Here's a sample from Whackoville
Revelation in our Generation? (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/revelation_our_generation.htm)

Is this what Governments intended when they closed the lunatic asylums? ;)

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 21:06
Nope it's still used, it tests against reaction to the vaccine. It's what you knew as teh BCG test.

Edited - I removed the image - it's displaying too large. here's the link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BCG_apparatus_ja2.jpg

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 21:21
Here's a sample from Whackoville
Revelation in our Generation? (http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/revelation_our_generation.htm)

Is this what Governments intended when they closed the lunatic asylums? ;)

I blame the teachers:E

VP959
31st Mar 2014, 21:33
At least there is a little bit of common sense in this thread, rather than DM-like scaremongering.

Haemorrhagic fevers tend to be very self-limiting (which is why they are of no use as biological weapons), for several reasons. The incubation time tend to be short, so people infected with the disease can't normally travel far before they become incapacitated. People who are infected tend to die quickly, so further reducing the time window in which they can pass on the disease. Finally, as mentioned above, transmission is principally by exchange of bodily fluids, which makes them about as contagious as HIV.

The above is the reason we don't have haemorrhagic fever epidemics, those infected die before they can pass on the disease to enough people to create an epidemic.

Sure, haemorrhagic fevers are seriously scary (they are Cat 4 pathogens) but only because the fatality rate is extremely high amongst those infected, and because there is no effective treatment. That doesn't make them high-risk diseases, just diseases with a very high mortality rate and a low transmission effectiveness.

awblain
31st Mar 2014, 21:53
Tom, :)

Like smallpox it's best to keep at least a sample alive - what we need is a vacination against him - you know so he can't come back

It would be much more comforting if he was safely locked away in a secure facility.

500N
31st Mar 2014, 22:01
Isn't the only reason the US still has the Small pox virus is because Russia won't destroy the samples they have ?

Although I believe it should be kept.

awblain
31st Mar 2014, 22:05
It's a shame they can't be housed together, but no luck: TB is probably old enough to have been vaccinated against smallpox as a child.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
31st Mar 2014, 22:07
Interesting how we can find advocates for North Korea dictators and lethal diseases but not a single person, to my recollection, has ever defended TB on Pprune. :ok:

500N
31st Mar 2014, 22:08
AW

What do you mean by

"TB is probably old enough to have been vaccinated against smallpox as a child." ?????

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 22:40
500N

Both Russia and America had agreed to destroy the smallpox virus but on advice from WHO is was agreed that a sample should be retained for research purpose - study of the virus is useful to virologists researching modals of mutation in emerging viruses.

Edited: TB - ex pm of UK

TomJoad
31st Mar 2014, 22:42
Tom, :)



It would be much more comforting if he was safely locked away in a secure facility.

Yes, but not the UK please;) Perhaps the space station:ok:

awblain
31st Mar 2014, 23:06
Perhaps the Milosevic Suite is still vacant?

G&T ice n slice
29th Jul 2014, 14:26
Seems to be a sort of conversation going on in the ME forum.

This outbreak began in Feb and is getting worse and spreading.

Is it time to lay in a lot of canned food and head for the hills?

Here's the latest.... (originally posted by mooseknuckles)

Outbreak of Ebola in Guinea | Ebola | CDC

Interim Guidance for Airline Workers | Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers | CDC

Ebola in Guinea - Alert - Level 2, Practice Enhanced Precautions - Travel Health Notices | Travelers' Health | CDC (http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/alert/ebola-guinea)

http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-...july-2014.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...leone-liberia/



I wonder if our governments have issued and sensible instructions to carriers, airport workers, and border protection bods?

By the time most governments wake up to this stuff it'll be too late

gloom, doom, despondency

AtomKraft
29th Jul 2014, 14:29
Just take a couple aspirin, stay warm an drink plenty of fluids.....:ok:

jolihokistix
29th Jul 2014, 16:15
Forgive if this is a repost:
New fears about Ebola spread after plane scare ? Japan Today: Japan News and Discussion (http://www.japantoday.com/category/world/view/new-fears-about-ebola-spread-after-plane-scare#comments)

tony draper
29th Jul 2014, 16:27
It's the ease of travel these days that will wipe us out.ban all flights and all travel in and out of any country that has Ebola cases ie no flight originating in Africa allowed to land in the UK.
Of course the above would never be allowed to happen the fluffists would scream racism,and the ratbastards in Brussels would tell our ratbastards in Westminster they were being naughty and to stop it at once.
:rolleyes:

dazdaz1
29th Jul 2014, 17:41
Very true Tony. I'll give this outbreak a couple more months, any cases in Eastern Europe then I'm heading to the hills, with my bully beef and tinned beans. This could turn bad.

tony draper
29th Jul 2014, 17:55
The Flu pandemic at the end of WWI was mainly spread by tens of thousands of troops returning to their home countries,such huge masses of people moving about the world was very unusual in those days,those kinds of numbers are traveling every day now.
:uhoh:

ORAC
29th Jul 2014, 18:06
Ebola outbreak: Victim who sparked fears of global epidemic was on way home to US (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/10998222/Ebola-outbreak-Victim-who-sparked-fears-of-global-epidemic-was-on-way-home-to-US.html)

An Ebola victim who was allowed to board an international flight was an American citizen on his way home to the United States, it has emerged.

Patrick Sawyer worked for the Liberian government and was visiting his sister there when he developed symptoms while on a plane to Nigeria. He was quarantined on arrival in Lagos and died on Friday......

The 40-year-old father-of-three is believed to have contracted the disease from his sister, whom he was caring for without knowing she had Ebola.

Mr Sawyer took two flights to get to Nigeria from Liberia, where he had attended his sister's funeral. The first took him from Monrovia to Lome in Togo, where he boarded a plane to Lagos. He collapsed at the airport on landing.

The Nigerian authorities have closed the hospital he was treated at, First Consultants Hospital in Obalende, one of the busiest parts of the city with a population of around 21 million. Manifests of the passengers and crew who travelled on the same flights as Mr Sawyer have yet to be released......

His job involved promoting trade in West Africa and he was on his way to a conference in Lagos from where he planned to travel back to the US when he fell ill with vomiting and diarrhoea. Fellow passengers on his plane were given warnings about the disease’s symptoms, which can include bleeding from the nose and mouth, but were allowed to continue on their journeys.

As Ebola has an incubation period of up to 21 days, there are fears that some may even now be spreading the disease still further.......

500N
29th Jul 2014, 20:07
Just what exactly is a fluffie God that is tempting but I know you don't like me using the words
after the lashing you gave me a few weeks back ;)

Fox3WheresMyBanana
29th Jul 2014, 20:09
In my experience, even fluffies run a mile from anything to do with highly contagious lethal diseases.

uffington sb
29th Jul 2014, 20:10
US Doctor Stricken With Ebola 'Is Terrified' (http://news.sky.com/story/1309462/us-doctor-stricken-with-ebola-is-terrified)

And he'd just been home to the US for a wedding.

500N
29th Jul 2014, 20:12
In my experience, even fluffies run a mile from anything to do with highly contagious lethal diseases.



Or if they are part of the UN they bring lethal deseases into
previously clean countries (Haiti) ;)

500N
29th Jul 2014, 20:25
Lone

It's OK, your "lashing" at us of a few weeks ago was actually quite appropriate and I did use those words and / or the sentence with latte and tofu in it a bit too often :O so have tempered my use of them :ok:

It is a lazy, throw away line as you described in the post above.

tony draper
29th Jul 2014, 20:26
I can use the word fluffy or rather Huggy Fluff if I want,after I invented it,some other prooner came up with Fluffist which I am forced to admit is superior.:rolleyes:
Anyway,if it is Captain Trips, rather like the Black Death changed everything, when the grass has grown long and trees have sprouted over the plague pits, the survivors will look around em at a much safer world or at least a much less crowded one.

pigboat
29th Jul 2014, 22:01
Anyway,if it is Captain Trips, rather like the Black Death changed everything, when the grass has grown long and trees have sprouted over the plague pits, the survivors will look around em at a much safer world or at least a much less crowded one.

Agreed Tony. If people aren't shit scared of this outbreak they bloody well should be.

rjtjrt
29th Jul 2014, 23:46
Ebola outbreaks have in past been in isolated village/area - isolating an isolated area is easy, hence the word isolate.
This outbreak is very serious now it has reached an area (Lagos) with 21 million densely packed people and an international airport and frequent connection to rest of world. It would be remarkable if it was not by now well past Lagos - we will find out shortly!
Lagos is the ideal place for it to spread - dense, poor, corrupt, third world institutions.
Problem for Lagos, big problem for rest of the world. Europe or Middle East is the next likely place for cases to be reported.
Not time for panic but time for alarm.
Spare a thought for the courage of those health workers who look after these poor patients. Very courageous and unsung people.

PS Notice how we are slowly getting more of these threatening outbreaks of infectious diseases? SARS, Bird Flu, etc.
There is a limit to world population and nothing will stop Mother Nature sorting it out.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
30th Jul 2014, 00:28
The BBC series 'Survivors' is an excellent series about the consequences of a worldwide pandemic. The original 3 series were made in 1975, and were so shocking that the BBC never repeated them despite many requests. They have though now made it available on DVD; 38 episodes. It shows its age for about 2 episodes, but the rapid failure of modern society means it's not really dated from then on. The characterization is excellent, and it has many shocking moments.
It was remade in 2008 (only 2 series, not all three). Kids (under 30's) will prefer the later series initially as it fits what they know (one baddie is now a smarmy Government advisor, rather than the gruff '70s union leader), and it's still very good, but the earlier series has more impact - there were no punches pulled, unlike the newer version.
Highly recommended.
Survivors - Series 1-3 Box Set [DVD] [1975]: Amazon.co.uk: Denis Lill, Lucy Fleming, Ian McCulloch, Carolyn Seymour, Talfryn Thomas, John Abineri, Terry Scully, Lorna Lewis, Dennis M. Hill, Celia Gregory, Peter Bowles, George Salkind, Stephen Dudley,

rh200
30th Jul 2014, 00:58
but the rapid failure of modern society

The concept of what happens to modern societies after some major calamity is not new. Its a basic logical outcome of understanding human nature, which is animal nature.

At the end of the day the ones that will survive will be the ones that have strong bonds amongst their social groups, or the power to enforce their will.

Hence Western society is stuffed in those situations. As such, on a smaller scale you look in your local area and see what groups stick together. They will be the ones to form strong groups in the aftermath of some calamity.

Then there will be the groups that are held together by force. Its all very ho hum. To model when and if that happens, you need to look at the calamity, and then the perception of whats happened and going to happen amongst the survivoirs.

Another words calamity x happened. What happens on the ground, will depend on perception of whats actually happened, and the probability of help comming from some central power.

Another words if its a local thing, and help may be a week away, then limited effects. If it becomes known there is no more central power, then its back to the strong will survive.

Lantern10
30th Jul 2014, 01:12
Survivors was an excellent series and can be watched again here

Watch Survivors Serie Online - Watch Series (http://watchseries.lt/serie/Survivors_%281975%29)

The later series is also available

Watch Survivors Serie Online - Watch Series (http://watchseries.lt/serie/survivors)

Well that's the weekend sorted:ok:

500N
30th Jul 2014, 01:16
It looks like (and reads like) this Ebola outbreak got ahead of everyone, either before they realised it was so big or before someone made the decision to shut down areas / places.

I noticed the other day that the some local populations are now attacking the NGO's / Doctors that arrive to treat or look at possible cases.

Once you get to this stage, damn hard to contain.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
30th Jul 2014, 01:35
I've been following this from about case 20. All of the risks and problems about spread were known and advised. The problem is local religions and cultures. This is why WHO has not advised any massive worldwide response.
That said, there will always be a risk of worldwide spread via the airline network, albeit small.

Brian Abraham
30th Jul 2014, 06:49
requires transmission by blood, body fluids or tissues. This makes it hard to contract provided sensible measures are takenSame with HIV Fox3, and look where we are. there will always be a risk of worldwide spread via the airline network, albeit smallI only hope your "small" is far, far smaller than mine.

tony draper
30th Jul 2014, 08:40
Yer Africa has been very successful at dealing with aids,report on the news tother day that some people forced their way into a hospital and removed a relative suffering from Ebola,they have more faith in the witch doctor than western medicine.
If you're a plague and want a good foothold on this mud ball you could pick no better place to set up your tent.
:ooh:

Akrotiri71
30th Jul 2014, 08:44
There is going to be a COBR(A) meeting this afternnon to address the Ebola issue.

Those not familiar with COBR(A).

Cabinet Office Briefing Room - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office_Briefing_Room)

ATNotts
30th Jul 2014, 09:29
If half the amount of time, energy and money that has been thrown at HIV / AIDS had been directed towards Ebola since it was first identified then I feel sure that by now 90% of cases wouldn't be resulting in death.

However Ebola is a disease of poor Africans, whereas HIV / AIDS was identified as a live threat to the USA and the rest of the western world, as well as to Africans.

The drugs companies and university researchers are primarily in the wealthy western world and so the money goes into diseases threatening the west.

Now, shock, horror there is the chance, albeit a remote one today, that Ebola might reach us in the cosy west and suddenly HMG holds a COBRA meeting!

It's an unfair, divided world, in which most of us here fortunately live on the sunnier side of the street.

OFSO
30th Jul 2014, 13:44
Question: how long after becoming infected with Ebola does

a) the infected person become contagious and able to infect someone else ?

b) symptoms appear on the infected person ?

Given the sexual proclivities of men in the African countries it strikes me that one prostitute could infect a large number of men if contagion appears before symptoms.

Checkboard
30th Jul 2014, 13:58
No doubt the fluffies will soon be demanding all those stricken be allowed to come here for treatment.
:uhoh:
If by "here", you mean the EU - then, yep:

It is not clear exactly how Dr Khan became infected, but health workers are at particular risk from Ebola, because it is spread by contact with an infected person's blood or bodily fluids, including sweat and saliva.
"Even with the full protective clothing you put on, you are at risk," Dr Khan said.
There has been wide speculation in Germany that Dr Khan was the unnamed patient a Hamburg hospital had agreed to treat after an urgent request from the World Health Organisation (WHO), despite fears of the spread of the disease.

Ebola doctor leading fight against outbreak dies of disease - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/sierraleone/11000341/Ebola-doctor-leading-fight-against-outbreak-dies-of-disease.html)

Checkboard
30th Jul 2014, 14:10
Question: how long after becoming infected with Ebola does...
The Ebola virus has an incubation period of 4 to 16 days. The onset is sudden and harsh. Infected persons develop fever, severe headaches and muscle aches, and loss of appetite. Within a few days the virus causes a condition known as disseminated intravascular coagulation (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/165973/disseminated-intravascular-coagulation), which is marked by both blood clots and hemorrhaging. In the case of Ebola fever, clots are concentrated in the liver, spleen, brain, and other internal organs, forcing capillaries to bleed into surrounding tissue. Nausea, vomiting (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/632709/vomiting) and diarrhea (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/161659/diarrhea) with blood and mucus, conjunctivitis (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/132870/conjunctivitis), and sore throat (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/554862/sore-throat) soon follow. A maculopapular rash (discoloured elevations of the skin) appears on the trunk and quickly spreads to the limbs and head. The patient is then beset by spontaneous bleeding from body orifices and any breaks in the skin, such as injection sites, and within the gastrointestinal tract, skin, and internal organs. Death is usually brought on by hemorrhaging, shock (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/541306/shock), or renal failure and occurs within 8 to 17 days.Ebola (virus) :: Course of infection -- Encyclopedia Britannica (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/177623/Ebola/280820/Course-of-infection)

People are infectious as long as their blood and secretions contain the virus. Ebola virus was isolated from semen 61 days after onset of illness in a man who was infected in a laboratory.
The incubation period, that is, the time interval from infection with the virus to onset of symptoms, is 2 to 21 days.
WHO | Ebola virus disease (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/)

So probably two days from initial infection to generate enough of the virus to become infectious - and then 2-18 days before you show symptoms (where you are REALLY infections, as you are secreting fluids) until you either die (body is still infectious) or up to seven weeks after you recover from the disease (if you are one of the "lucky" ones).

vulcanised
30th Jul 2014, 15:26
Just wasted ten minutes in the supermarket looking for that Ebola Spread.

Settled for Flora :}

Fox3WheresMyBanana
30th Jul 2014, 16:15
Ironically, supermarkets are #2 after transport as the best way to spread Ebola. Some have already been closed in West Africa.

FrontPageAfrica - Fearing Ebola: Liberians Cautious as Virus Report Spreads (http://frontpageafricaonline.com/index.php/health-sci/1135-fearing-ebola-liberians-cautious-as-virus-report-spreads)

CathayBrat
30th Jul 2014, 18:12
Tongue in Cheek
"If this Ebola is so dangerous, when are we invading the region of EbolaStan!"

Having worked for the CDC in E Africa, transporting samples from the deep DRC to their local labs for testing/onward shipping, it is F*%KING scary stuff.
If we had crashed on landing back at base, we were told not to expect any help from the fire services (so normal ops then!). We had to fly in RASCAN (sp?) suits, the blue ones that are meant to be sealed from all nasties. However they get bloody hot, our feet were sloshing around in boots full of sweat.
The samples were in a vial, in a Thermos type thing, in a cool box, in a bigger cool box and then in a metal crate. All this was covered in warning labels, do not open, bio-hazard etc.
The first official chap we saw was customs, wanting to know what was in the box, and to open it for inspection!
We walked away.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
30th Jul 2014, 19:15
Is this not a good way to curb the excesses of the TSA? :E

I remember sim rides in AR5 gear - you have my deepest admiration for a job well done CathayBrat :D:D

tony draper
30th Jul 2014, 19:19
Hmmm, politicians murmuring phrase of comfort on the telly, senior medical men who suck on the government tit doing the same,time to start worrying folks.:uhoh:

crewmeal
31st Jul 2014, 09:01
So if an aircraft was on it's way from somewhere in West Africa to Europe or the US and a passenger showed symptoms of ebola, would that aircraft passengers and crew be isolated? All this reminds me of that movie 'The Cassandra Crossing' made in the 70's.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074292/

Interesting times ahead.

500N
31st Jul 2014, 09:08
I wonder what will happen if and when the first case does show up in
Europe, the UK or the US.

Will we see blind panic from Gov't's ?

tony draper
31st Jul 2014, 09:09
Good grief no!Mr Crewmeal, that would be violating their human rights.:=

tom775257
31st Jul 2014, 09:11
Crewmeal: If you suspect a passenger has a communicable disease of concern, the captain has a responsibility to contact the port health authority on arrival and await instructions.. In reality you probably would have been talking to medlink already, who would have already informed them before you even land.

crewmeal
31st Jul 2014, 09:20
tom - I know that, it goes without saying. My question was what would happen on the ground? Diversion? Isolation?

Cacophonix
31st Jul 2014, 09:34
While EBOLA is a major threat in west Africa and our government is right to look at possible contingency measures to protect the population here in the UK I can't but help thinking that there is nothing like the news of some 'exotic' tropical illness (the more gruesome the symptoms the better) to excite the press into spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt amongst the population.

One only has to look back at the SARS and Bird Flu hysterias in the press over the last decade to see how these panics feed on themselves and result in dubious policies being adopted by the powers that be. In the case of Bird Flu the millions that the government spent on the Tamiflu drug were most likely wasted as their is little evidence that the drug has any prophylactic or any other efficacy at all and in many cases is it most likely bad for patients...

The drugs don't work: Britain wasted £600m of taxpayers' money on useless flu pills stockpiled by Government in case of pandemic - Science - News - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/britain-wasted-600m-of-taxpayers-money-on-useless-flu-drugs-stockpiled-by-government-in-case-of-pandemic-9249396.html)

No doubt passengers and crew travelling from parts of Africa who have the common cold (for example) will now be subject to additional screening which will probably not really add any real security as the virus has a +-4 week incubation period and asymptomatic suffers are more likely to be able to board and travel than those who are just showing the first symptoms.

A nasty and deadly virus indeed but let's keep a sense of proportion please.

Caco

G-CPTN
31st Jul 2014, 10:03
the millions that the government spent on the Tamiflu drug were most likely wasted as their is little evidence that the drug has any prophylactic or any other efficacy at all and in many cases is it most likely bad for patients...
What it did do was to reassure the public (however misguidedly) that 'something was being done' and so helped to quell anxiety.
At present there is the possibility that panic might ensue, whereas the reality is that there is little risk - apart from contact with faeces from an infected person (which is most likely on an aircraft).

SpringHeeledJack
31st Jul 2014, 11:02
Forgive me if this has been mentioned before in the previous 6 pages, one is away from one's cave and cannot be so profligate with the internettery , so here's a :roll eyes: to save the effort. As some good citizens of Nigeria have been infected and have returned to their home country, with a population of over 175 million, it must surely only be a matter of time before it spreads there and sadly to other countries outside Africa ? I watched a Nigerian health official 2 days ago on TV trying to contact "The 30,000 people that an infected man would have come into contact with since leaving Sierra Leone…." and it was at that point that an uncomfortable feeling descended in one's brian that this could get serious in the near term. How in hell does one initiate an effective quarantine in such circumstances ?


SHJ

G-CPTN
31st Jul 2014, 11:22
I recall the briefings that I received during the Cold War concerning the aftermath of a nuclear bomb strike in Britain.

The military would patrol the streets and exterminate those seeking non-existent food and those with radiation injuries that were considered beyond treatment.

tony draper
31st Jul 2014, 11:40
In my time wandering the earth even the biggest dump of a port on earth had a Port Doctor who along with the pilot and customs was the first aboard the ship when you arrived, anyone suffering from anything apart from the usual seafarers affliction ie Crabs,the French Disease ect and the ship would be quarantined,nobody allowed ashore or aboard until such time as the affliction was identified.
:rolleyes:

Checkboard
31st Jul 2014, 12:38
Regulations 11 and 12 of the Public Health (Aircraft) Regulations 1979 (England and Wales) (and broadly similar provisions in Scotland and Ireland) impose a number of duties on the commanders of aircraft in terms of notifying cases of infectious disease on board their aircraft prior to landing, as well as supplying information as to the health conditions on board the aircraft once the aircraft has landed.

My question was what would happen on the ground? Diversion? Isolation? Possibly diversion to one of the designated airports (if the notification was given in flight with enough time). On the ground, yes the aircraft would be parked and quarantined with the passengers on board. The health officials on the ground would then prepare suits and doctors to enter the plane and test the passengers - and those with symptoms would be moved to a prepared quarantine area in a local hospital.

For something as serious as a suspected case of Ebola, it would take up to a day or so to prepare the hospital and ground teams - so you may have to spend 24 hours on the aircraft with the sick people, until you can be assessed and disembark. (Worst case scenario, of course.)

example during the SARS event:
Hop flight quarantined in France over swine flu fears - AOL Travel UK (http://travel.aol.co.uk/2013/11/30/hop-air-france-plane-quarantined-passengers-swine-flu-symptoms/)

rjtjrt
31st Jul 2014, 12:41
G-CPTN wrote apart from contact with faeces from an infected person
That is factually incorrect.
I suggest you look at

WHO | Ebola virus disease (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/)

Checkboard
31st Jul 2014, 20:09
It's serious enough now for the World Health Organisation to commit $100 million US dollars to the breakout.

BBC News - Ebola crisis: WHO to announce $100m emergency response (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28593987)

meadowrun
31st Jul 2014, 20:37
It's not the travelers from Africa alone the UK and I suppose Europe need to worry about. 4,000 tons of poorly processed and totally illegal "bush meat" is smuggled into the UK each year. It is a prime (or THE prime) source of the disease.


So, available at market stalls in London, Ebola - because it's a "cultural thing".

Brian Abraham
1st Aug 2014, 05:24
On the news last night of two infected Americans being repatriated in isolation aboard a military looking Gulfstream back to the States.

West Coast
1st Aug 2014, 06:19
Photo: N173PA (CN: 313) Phoenix Air Gulfstream G-III by Piotr Pasula Photoid: 6931916 - JetPhotos.Net (http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6931916)

Believe this was the aircraft in question.

Andu
1st Aug 2014, 06:30
Well, if the outbreak becomes widespread in Nigeria, I suppose we can all expect to be receiving incredibly heartwrenching emails begging us to offer our support for some poor soul who has contracted the virus.

Either that, or someone in Lagos will have discovered the cure - and YOU can invest in the wonder drug that will save the world.

All you'll need to do to save the poor (wo)man or to make your fortune by investing in the cure will be to send her/him your date of birth and your bank account details and all will be well.

mikedreamer787
1st Aug 2014, 14:24
Me and a mate were talking about
that over a beer last night Andu.

We thunk why not start scamming
the well-heeled with an Ebola cure
etc and try to get some advice on
scamming. The PT Barnum theory
is well proven and still active.

Alas we thought it fully through and
had decided it'd be just too obvious
and transparent for all the research
and work we'd have to put into it.

G-CPTN
1st Aug 2014, 15:02
G-CPTN wrote Quote:
apart from contact with faeces from an infected person
That is factually incorrect.

I knew that, but, consideration of risk, the most likely source for travellers would be from an aircraft toilet.

dazdaz1
1st Aug 2014, 15:43
It's not looking good. Apart from flights to the UK one must take into account persons arriving on our shores via merchant shipping crews, and channel ferries from France to the UK. As posted previously, if the ebola moves to Eastern Europe, we are in a very very serious situation.

Prediction, if this virus caused large casualties in the UK. One could say farewell to family members who contract this virus. No funeral, lime pit for thousands of burials, the crematoriums would be running 24/7

Having said that, It'll be sorted out by Christmas. No probs.

Cacophonix
1st Aug 2014, 15:53
For those positing these gloomy outcomes for this contagion one must note the length of time that Ebola has been present in Western (and other parts of) Africa and the low number of cases that have been noted in Europe and the USA (for example) over that period.

The virus although deadly is not easily transmitted in the air (although it can be) and is relatively fragile. Unless it has mutated or found a new vector I would suggest that the chances of a world pandemic are negligible although the number of cases outside the African context may rise and that for the victims (and their families) would be tragic.

Caco

G-CPTN
1st Aug 2014, 17:04
BBC News - Ebola crisis: Virus spreading too fast, says WHO (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28610112)

ChrisVJ
1st Aug 2014, 18:16
Up till now Ebola has largely been confined to rural areas, small villages etc where access is minimal and controllable. If it gets a foothold in a city like, for instance, Lagos where there is relatively poor services, 21M people and things llike public transport it may well be a different matter..

For Western countries, sifting the travellers off the plane from Liberia is one thing but from several major African cities, then I'd hope they cut off travel from them entirely.

I suspect the 'thirty thousand' contacts are not just those of the one infected person but possible two 'generations', ie, those on the plane, those they came in contact with and maybe those that the second generation came in contact with. A lot of work and that sieve would be full of holes.

meadowrun
1st Aug 2014, 18:58
Cutting off traffic from Africa would not be a comprehensive measure because those pax would then fly to a destination in Europe and then to the UK or elsewhere.

letsjet
1st Aug 2014, 19:06
N173PA

Anyone know if this plane is headed back to the US? Did they take off with the medical passengers?

meadowrun
1st Aug 2014, 19:18
N173PA ? FlightAware (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N173PA)

letsjet
1st Aug 2014, 19:26
Thanks, I guess this isn't the aircraft. I understand the plane is already in Africa.

meadowrun
1st Aug 2014, 19:43
Emirates first major airline to suspend flights to Ebola-hit countries
African carriers Arik and ASKY stopped flights to Liberia and Sierra Leone
BA confirms it will continue operating Heathrow flight despite Ebola fears .DM

Cacophonix
1st Aug 2014, 20:23
The only things that can kill us are Ebola and fear itself...

Ebola outbreak: We know the disease is killing people, but is the panicked response killing people too? - Africa - World - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/ebola-outbreak-we-know-the-disease-is-killing-people-but-is-the-panicked-response-killing-people-too-9643733.html)

Caco

Brian Abraham
2nd Aug 2014, 00:19
USAtoday is carrying the story that the two Americans are being treated at the Emory University Hospital in Atlanta. Was an Atlanta based Gulfstream which did the retreaval. Appears to be a medical specialty aircraft with a large upward opening cargo door at the front.

BenThere
2nd Aug 2014, 00:41
Ebola sufferers world-wide should head, as soon as possible, for the US Southern border where they can enter the US, get the care they need, and not have to pay for it.

galaxy flyer
2nd Aug 2014, 01:37
In my never-ending search for uses of nuclear devices, Ebola is a gift of the Gods. Just nuke west Africa, game over.

GF

pigboat
2nd Aug 2014, 02:17
Never let a good disaster go to waste? :p

galaxy flyer
2nd Aug 2014, 02:49
The Obama Administration should be proud. Speaking of disasters, how's Chicago working for Rahm Emanuel?

GF

G-CPTN
2nd Aug 2014, 20:10
The private flight from Liberia has landed with its patient in Atlanta Georgia.

US aid worker infected by Ebola arrives in America for treatment - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11007678/US-aid-worker-infected-by-Ebola-arrives-in-America-for-treatment.html)

SLFgeek
3rd Aug 2014, 01:01
CDC: Interim Guidance about Ebola Virus Infection for Airline Flight Crews, Cleaning Personnel, and Cargo Personnel

Ebola Guidance for Airlines | Quarantine | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/air/managing-sick-travelers/ebola-guidance-airlines.html)

(updated 2 Aug 2014)

visibility3miles
3rd Aug 2014, 01:28
How long does the Ebola virus stay active when it isn't in somebody?

i.e., If you have contaminated clothing, how long is it still infectious if it sits around without anybody touching it?

Some viruses aren't very robust and tend to die off rather quickly. Others are made of sterner stuff.

Do you have to burn clothing?

What do they do with hospital beds before they re-use them?

pigboat
3rd Aug 2014, 02:09
Good questions. Since it's an African disease, how does it do at -40?

Fox3WheresMyBanana
3rd Aug 2014, 03:34
There has to be at least one benefit to living in Winnipeg ;)

pigboat
3rd Aug 2014, 04:01
Or Sept-Iles. :p

obgraham
3rd Aug 2014, 04:37
How long does the Ebola virus stay active when it isn't in somebody?

From an infectious disease site:
SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST: The virus can survive in liquid or dried material for a number of days (23). Infectivity is found to be stable at room temperature or at 4°C for several days, and indefinitely stable at -70°C (6, 20). Infectivity can be preserved by lyophilisation.

Looks to me like you Winnipegers/SeptIslers aren't off the hook!

brickhistory
3rd Aug 2014, 04:39
I'm not worried.

I've got my Obamacare...

West Coast
3rd Aug 2014, 04:50
And the VA as a backup.

brickhistory
3rd Aug 2014, 05:04
What could possibly go wrong?

Amelia_Flashtart
3rd Aug 2014, 06:32
In response to visibility3miles questions - anything that is not disposable or hard surface able to be sterilized by other means is incinerated at high temperature. Anything porous or absorbent is destroyed this way. Anything that body fluids have come in contact with is contagious and must be treated as such.

When I was working in Northern Africa I asked doctor friends who have worked in infection control and disease control in Africa - much the same precautions are taken for all highly infectious and deadly diseases. Some of these same friends are now working with this current outbreak

dazdaz1
3rd Aug 2014, 16:22
Galaxy Flyer...."In my never-ending search for uses of nuclear devices, Ebola is a gift of the Gods. Just nuke west Africa, game over."

I fear this may come about, in scenarios where the medical staff loose the battle, pull out because of their own health concerns. I would predict prior to the above quote, the first ditch solution would be a bullet to the head of persons having the Ebola virus, no fluids or paracetamol, just finish it.

meadowrun
3rd Aug 2014, 16:49
Wasn't this a Dustin Hoffman movie?

chopper2004
3rd Aug 2014, 22:51
@meadowrun,

Yep it was 1995 movie - Outbreak ...use of Fuel Air Explosive - napalm in the opening of the movie on the village , dropped by a C-47 (all the mercs execpt doctor on the ground thought it was aid :eek:) then at end when Colonel Sam Daniels (Dustin Hoffman) and Major Salt (CUba Gooding Jnr) in their MH-6 try to obstruct the C-123 with same Fuel Air Explosive to be dropped on Cedar Creek (the town of infection )

cheers

Lantern10
3rd Aug 2014, 22:58
Ebola terror at Gatwick as passenger collapses and dies getting off Sierra Leone flight


Ebola terror at Gatwick as passenger collapses and dies getting off Sierra Leone flight - Mirror Online (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ebola-terror-gatwick-passenger-collapses-3977051#ixzz39MuItDSI)

chopper2004
4th Aug 2014, 12:11
Were not the tests concluded the unfortunate soul did not pas away because of the disease?

Cheers

OFSO
4th Aug 2014, 13:00
After possibly the most depressing Sky News this morning I've ever seen - West Africa, Libya, Gaza, Ukraine, Syria, Egypt, and Iraq - it occurs to me that a few judicious fuel/air explosions would sort out the lot of them...

(Is this part of growing old ? more and more I find the stupidity of people who can't sort their own problems out beyond my contempt. And before any BHL's rush to tell me Ebola isn't anyone's "fault", no but the spreading through ignorance and promiscuity and the lack of funds to deal with it within countries which have so many resources of their own is.)

Fox3WheresMyBanana
4th Aug 2014, 16:02
Just stop watching Sky news is my advice. There is a trend in popular news to list the 10 nastiest events first, and to portray the participants as dumber than their average viewer. It's the modern equivalent of the Flavian Amphitheatre, and makes the average viewer more likely to buy from the advertisers.

Canadian media is generally less sensationalist, but obviously doesn't have the European focus and massive reporting base. Try it for bigger world events like Ebola ( CBC News - Latest Canada, World, Entertainment and Business News (http://www.cbc.ca/news) , News - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/) )

G-CPTN
6th Aug 2014, 18:39
On Wednesday, a man suspected to have contracted Ebola died in Saudi Arabia. If confirmed, this will be the first Ebola-related death outside of Africa.

From (and more at):- BBC News - Ebola: Global experts begin emergency talks at WHO (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28673380)

pigboat
7th Aug 2014, 00:36
Taki's Magazine: The End, or Something Like It. (http://takimag.com/article/the_end_or_something_like_it_guy_somerset#axzz39Za7dERF)

On August 2, 2014, the Obama Administration allowed the first of two American health care workers who had contracted the Ebola virus back into the U.S. There is no logical reason to have done this; in fact its illogic is so great as regards possible spread of the epidemic that this act borders on madness.

For those who question the degree of alarm this return of infected parties to native soil engenders, of the 1,440 people so far afflicted, over 100 have been medical professionals. In total 887 (and rising daily) have perished. Or in layman’s terms, even those with the most experience and best protective equipment, and who have taken every precaution to avoid exposure, have succumbed. This, for a pathogen with a 50% mortality rate on the low end and 90% on the high. There is no vaccine and there is no cure.

500N
7th Aug 2014, 00:43
I don't get this from the link above.

"Derbyshire MP Pauline Latham has soundly criticized the UK government for permitting her and others to travel in the area and disputed the minimization of risk versus the gravity on the ground. She characterizes the Home Office diffidence as “foolish.”

Why did they go then and not make their own decision not to go ?

meadowrun
7th Aug 2014, 01:20
Apparently quite a few people are hauling their Ebola dead out of their homes and into the streets, dumping them there to avoid being placed in quarantine themselves.


There will be no effective containment of this disease in some African countries.

pigboat
7th Aug 2014, 01:25
Why did they go then and not make their own decision not to go ?
Because some people are so 'kin stupid they are unable to make a sane decision for themselves?

rh200
7th Aug 2014, 01:31
As bad as it is, the ebola death rate etc. is not a be all to end all apocolypse scenario. As such there was most likely a risk assesment (cost benefit) done on returning the yanks.

The biggest threat I would imagine, is the friggen thing mutates into something worse. So there could be a good reason to get some specimens (patients) back to the US.

500N
7th Aug 2014, 01:33
pig

I think you are right.




rh
I still can't see why return them to the US, like the article says.

pigboat
7th Aug 2014, 02:26
I still can't see why return them to the US, like the article says.

For the conspiracy theorists among us... :p

Obama Signs Executive Order to Detain Americans With ?Respiratory Illnesses? | Global Research (http://www.globalresearch.ca/obama-signs-executive-order-to-detain-americans-with-respiratory-illnesses/5394419?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=obama-signs-executive-order-to-detain-americans-with-respiratory-illnesses)

rh200
7th Aug 2014, 05:00
I still can't see why return them to the US, like the article says.

Could be a few things, right things to do for an American citizen. Or better able to study the specimen, oops I mean patient. I think the facilities there would be a bit better than Africa

OFSO
7th Aug 2014, 06:14
They are returning infecting Spaniards to Spain also. Pics on TV news this morning showing conversion of airliner for carrying patients.

John Hill
7th Aug 2014, 06:25
I still can't see why return them to the US, like the article says.

Maybe they can get some material for use at Fort Detrick?

500N
7th Aug 2014, 06:30
They already have it in the US.

Cacophonix
7th Aug 2014, 08:48
Interesting to see the use of infra-red heat monitors of international passengers & crews entering South Africa to identify those who may be a bit feverish... Not sure how effective this is as people can be asymptomatic for up to 3 weeks before the fever breaks out.

Caco

Andu
7th Aug 2014, 08:58
At the risk of being considered politically incorrect, it would be rather poetic - and interesting to see how the main players would handle it - if the outbreak was to find its way to the battlefields of Iraq. Particularly with one side indulging rather freely in spilling the blood of their enemies (when the behead them), the virus might spread rather rapidly if it ever became established there.

It would be one hell of a way to empty a battlefield. Just announce that the city under siege was afflicted with ebola.

I suspect there'd be more than a few jihadists from Western countries applying for new copies of the passports they so publicly burned a few short months ago. (Not that I believe for one moment most of them burned their actual passport.)

ORAC
7th Aug 2014, 09:21
Interesting way of telling the world you have a cure - and, no, we're not sharing....

Giving Americans Drug for Ebola Virus Prompts Flak (http://online.wsj.com/articles/second-ebola-patient-lands-in-u-s-1407256243)

Obama: Too early to send Ebola drug to Africa (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2014/08/obama-too-early-send-ebola-drug-africa-201486233959405345.html)

tony draper
7th Aug 2014, 10:02
I suspect our bearded friends are already scratching their chins and figuring out how to make a Ebola Vest.:uhoh:

500N
7th Aug 2014, 10:11
Andu

I would suggest smallpox but not sure if they have been immunised.


Your suggestion is good but would suggest something with a shorter
Incubation time.

ORAC
7th Aug 2014, 10:49
I'd have thought they'd be more likely to try and find a victim and get a load of suicide volunteers to get infected then send them to target cities in Europa and the USA with instructions to spread themselves around glad handing and getting personal in crowded locations such as the underground, theatres etc.

Lonewolf_50
7th Aug 2014, 16:24
quarrantine: not a bad idea, why isn't there one in place?
Or is there, and I just don't get the right news feed?

500N
7th Aug 2014, 17:03
I see they have repatriated someone to Spain in a mil aircraft.

Priest Miguel Parajes becomes first Ebola victim brought to Europe for treatment | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2718716/Missionary-struck-Ebola-person-brought-Europe-treatment-African-countries-declare-national-emergency.html)

OFSO
7th Aug 2014, 17:44
See my post 158. Was on TV news here this morning.

Regarding jihadistas disseminating ebola via suiciders, no doubt if the oft-lamented Slasher were still with us he would as a warning post pictures of toothsome ladies of arabian extraction willing and likely to mingle their contaminated body fluids with unsuspecting northerners.

In all seriousness in a country like Spain where prostitutes stand at every roadside it wouldn't take long to infect a sizeable amount of the population. Do this at the huge truck parks at the border crossings and it would spread across Europe like wildfire.

500N
7th Aug 2014, 17:51
You'd hope that anyone in Africa into Necrophilia ceases their activities for a while.

Regarding jihadistas disseminating ebola via suiciders, no doubt if the oft-lamented Slasher were still with us he would as a warning post pictures of toothsome ladies of arabian extraction willing and likely to mingle their contaminated body fluids with unsuspecting northerners.Re above and infecting ISIS, Taliban with Ebola etc, all you need to do is find out if goats and donkeys can carry the disease
and send a few of them in, most will be infected in very short order as they share goats, especially if they have been deprived for a while ;)

(No Kiwi jokes please, they might get offended !)

obgraham
8th Aug 2014, 01:07
I rather suspect that ladies of the night who know they are Ebola infected are scarcely able to ply their trade during the illness. And most of them would not be back next week by the same lamp-post.

SOPS
8th Aug 2014, 07:28
What am I missing here? I thought the WHO said it was hard to get. That you had to be in contact with body fluids. I would have thought people who were treating victims would take all precautions, but they seem to be falling ill. Is this thing easier to catch than we have been told?

ORAC
8th Aug 2014, 07:53
Ebola spreads to Nigeria. Government declares emergency (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/08/07/ebola-spreads-to-nigeria-goverment-declares-emergency/)

Nigeria’s health minister has declared a health emergency as the deadly Ebola virus gained a foothold in Africa’s most populous nation, according to news reports. “This is a national emergency. Everyone in the world today is at risk. The experience of Nigeria opens the eyes of the world,” Minister of Health Onyebuchi Chukwu told the country’s House of Representatives.

Nigerian authorities moved quickly late Wednesday, gathering isolation tents as five more cases of the Ebola Virus were confirmed in Lagos, a city bursting with 21 million people. All five people are believed to be health workers who had direct contact with one man traveling from Ebola-ridden Liberia to Nigeria — making this country the fourth now infiltrated by the deadly disease.

The World Health Organization meanwhile convened to discuss whether the crisis warrants a global health emergency, BBC News said, as the virus grips Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone and, now, Nigeria...........

cavortingcheetah
8th Aug 2014, 16:14
It's now confirmed. The great pandemic is underway.

BBC News - WHO: Ebola 'an international emergency' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-28702356)

Rumours are that all flights from the countries affected will soon cease as airline crews refuse to operate into the affected areas. Crews from aircraft based in the plagued ridden towns and cities will disembark in their European and other destinations and refuse to return home, seeking asylum on the grounds that their health would be endangered were they to be forced to do so.

Jacob Zuma is reported to be having a new shower system installed in each of his mansions.

meadowrun
8th Aug 2014, 16:57
Aye, that'll fix it Zuma. I also hear a diet of okra and marzipan is a good cure.

vulcanised
8th Aug 2014, 17:32
An overheard conversation :-

"It's about time they got rid of that Obama thing before it kills any more"

West Coast
8th Aug 2014, 18:49
ORAC

Interesting way of telling the world you have a cure - and, no, we're not sharing....

Experimental drug. Imagine the outcry if the experimental US drug was given to Africans and they died as a result of it. While chances are they would have died anyway, the optics would be horrible. What headline (or pprune thread title) would it be? "US experimental drug test kills Africans, research continues"

baggersup
8th Aug 2014, 21:43
Too true.

This is a classic case of damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I'd bet the responsible family members for the two missionaries being treated in the U.S. with the experimental drugs had to sign release and permission papers stacked an inch high in order to be treated with the drugs.

500N
8th Aug 2014, 21:46
bagger

Agree, papers galore signed to allow it.

baggersup
8th Aug 2014, 22:12
Exactly!

I signed about 25 pages of stuff recently just to get a routine test that required sedation.

It's hard to imagine what you'd have to sign to get experimental life saving drugs in an emergency. Bet a room of lawyers was in scrubs with pens poised.

obgraham
8th Aug 2014, 22:13
If you had spent a bit of time working in the rural African health system, you would see why this disease spreads easily there.

The great percentage of people are uneducated, indeed illiterate. They follow tribal customs dealing with birth, death, and social conventions.

They have not learned modern concepts of disease prevention, in my own opinion largely because their leadership has failed them so abysmally.

baggersup
8th Aug 2014, 22:20
Well, if it's in Lagos now, tick tock. The airlines seem to be the ones who have to make some decisions at the coal face at the moment, especially those who have regular service into Lagos to Europe and beyond.

The world health people in all areas have been very cautious and have parsed their words very carefully when discussing the threat of pandemic.

They could have panicked everybody by speaking too harshly, but they've been playing it very cool.

500N
8th Aug 2014, 22:37
bagger

I'd sign it, hell, what an opportunity.

tony draper
8th Aug 2014, 22:47
Wonder how much of this money being pledged by various governments will go toward helping the problem and not into the pockets of African officials and politicians,greed always beats fear.

con-pilot
9th Aug 2014, 00:00
Wonder how much of this money being pledged by various governments will go toward helping the problem and not into the pockets of African officials and politicians,greed always beats fear.

That Sir Draper, is the problem. One can only hope that those leaders that steal the money meant to stop this disease and help those that are suffering and dying from this disease, catch it themselves.

DG101
9th Aug 2014, 02:36
Ebola hits Lagos? OMG! What percentage of the population will perish? What will happen to all those unreleased millions? Will our Cape Crusader die of boredom? :ooh:

John Hill
9th Aug 2014, 07:28
Barack Obama has used genetics to manufacture the most powerful virus in the history of mankind. The virus is an evolved form of EBOLA, a deadly virus that causes the body to bleed to death in a week.

According to sources, there is an antidote for the virus. The cure was tested at the CDC facility in Georgia this week, where an infected doctor has been nearly cured, against all odds.

Obama is Infecting Christians with Ebola To Destroy Jesus and Start A New Age of Liberal Darkness ? ChristWire (http://christwire.org/2014/08/obama-is-infecting-christians-with-ebola-to-destroy-jesus-and-start-a-new-age-of-liberal-darkness/)

SOPS
9th Aug 2014, 08:19
Please get a grip.

exeng
9th Aug 2014, 08:46
I read that the Nigerian President has approved spending U.S. $11.7 million to fight the desease. What percentage is that I wonder of the yearly oil revenues?

This pathetically small amount of money gives some insight into the thinking of the Nigerian government.


Regards
Exeng

worldpilot
9th Aug 2014, 09:54
The containment of Ebola is proving difficult due to the cultural way of engagement in the African Society. To effectively control and contain the spread of the pathogen, socio-economic measures are necessary, and such measures must be established as long-term proactive strategies.

Reacting to the situation by spontaneously injecting financial resources won't alleviate the circumstances that favor the trajection of the pathogen.

WP

500N
9th Aug 2014, 10:17
John Hill

You have surpassed yourself with that post, you really have.


The US has probably every known pathogen and probably a few not known
and the means of security and delivery.

OFSO
9th Aug 2014, 10:28
Mr Hill, what an excellent website that is ! I'm sitting here shivering in fear at all the new things I have learned about lesbians, masturbators, lesbians, dangerous dogs, conspiracies...you name it. Oh and lesbians.

reynoldsno1
11th Aug 2014, 05:23
It certainly gives the Onion a degree of gravitas ...

moosp
11th Aug 2014, 07:07
A staff member of ours in Cape town is a Sangoma, a traditional healer.Recently she asked for two days off to go to the Eastern Cape to attend to the funeral of a cousin who had died of aids.

One of her duties was to was wash the body, then do some form of disembowelling for purification before burial. We asked her if she used any medical protection, gloves, mask, gown, anything. Oh no, that is not part of the dress of a Sangoma.

She has no education but knows something of the risks. Such behaviour is unfathomable to us who were brought up in the concept of scientific method.

I have no doubt that similar procedures occur in West Africa, hence the extreme difficulty of containment of a fluid transferred pathogen.

tartare
11th Aug 2014, 08:05
Acknowledging the misery and suffering of those in some of the poorest parts of Africa who have already died or are ill - this whole wider `it's spreading' scare is laughable.
Filoviridae like Ebola and Marburg are very effective killers, but they're not transmitted by aerosol.
So unless you touch the bodily fluids of an infected person, you're not going to get it - regardless of the `it'll spread by the international airline system' furphy.
As an expert from the CDC said on radio here over the weekend "...these are diseases that do not spread easily."
If you want to read something really scary - pick up a copy of the 1995 book `The Hot Zone' which talks about the Reston strain of Ebola - had mutated to become airborne - but luckily killed only monkeys.
Meanwhile, as the media wets it's pants over Ebola, the good old flu virus continues to quietly mutate and alter form year in, year out...

Fliegenmong
11th Aug 2014, 08:13
Thanks Mr Hill......I am much the wiser for your posting!, an example below....:D:D

Do you know the password to all her Internet accounts?


If not, then it is probably because she gets updates from gayteenforums.com on a regular basis. She also probably has a girlfriend she fornicates with in steamy cyber emails. A good Christian parent keeps a close eye on their child’s online activities, as it is the favorite medium for gays to penetrate your home and your daughter with their huge dildos and other foreign objects they use to satisfy their beaver-lust. Do not let your daughter have her own passwords. Choose them for her, and if she protests, show her what happens when homogays get AIDS.

Does she use a Mac?



The entire operating system was meant to cater to the homogay culture in San Fransisco.

tartare
11th Aug 2014, 09:55
Mother of God - I had no idea - I'm posting this from a Mac...

SpringHeeledJack
11th Aug 2014, 14:50
I always suspected you of lesbianism mr tartare.

The authorities have been VERY quiet all things considered, no doubt more to do with not panicking the masses, rather than not seeing any real danger to the world. All that is needed is a few persons of 1st world countries returning from visiting relatives in or near affected areas and 'kiss kiss hug hug welcome home' and the bodily fluids vector will be initiated. Without being overly alarmist many might well be affected unknowingly with the virus incubating inside them. It might well be prudent to set some type of real quarantine controls to alleviate further dangers despite any protests of prejudice that might rear their heads. Apparently there is a suspected new case of an infected medicine student from Germany who is in Ruanda presently.



SHJ

lomapaseo
11th Aug 2014, 15:01
Tartare

Mother of God - I had no idea - I'm posting this from a Mac...

so that's where the word "tart" comes from

MG23
11th Aug 2014, 16:38
All that is needed is a few persons of 1st world countries returning from visiting relatives in or near affected areas and 'kiss kiss hug hug welcome home' and the bodily fluids vector will be initiated.

Except everything we know about Ebola says that it isn't infectious before the infectee is showing symptoms. Hopefully, by now, anyone returning from these countries knows to avoid people if they feel sick after they return.

Of course, quarantining the whole area would make a lot more sense, but I'm sure many governments won't do that until it's too late.

SpringHeeledJack
12th Aug 2014, 10:07
Without wishing to insult those returning from Western Africa, I wouldn't want to rely on them self quarantining, much as most of us don't hide away at the first sign of a cold or flu. As an aside the Spanish priest that was repatriated from his health mission a few days ago and given the experimental drug has passed away from the virus…..



SHJ

LowNSlow
12th Aug 2014, 14:36
Kevin Myer had some harsh things to say about Ethiopia and Africa in general back in 2008, [URL="http://www.ethiomedia.com/all/6214.html"] and again in 2009 http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/kevin-myers-africa-has-to-learn-lessons-the-hard-way-if-necessary-26577403.html I doubt he's changed his mind much since the Ebola outbreak....

Fox3WheresMyBanana
12th Aug 2014, 16:10
Don't see why he should change his mind - he's right. Those of us who refused to donate to Live Aid way-back-when should be forgiven if we say "Told you so"; but we won't be, so largely we don't.
Hey ho - you can't change a continent; it has to do it itself.

500N
12th Aug 2014, 18:56
With the Spanish priest dying, something obviously went seriously wrong with the handling of patients.

[QUOTE]Ebola has now claimed four lives in 10 days among the staff of the same Saint Joseph Hospital in Monrovia, which has since been shut down.[QUOTE]

tartare
13th Aug 2014, 03:34
I assure you, I am very male.
Although I would go Lesbian for Charlize Theron.

fitliker
13th Aug 2014, 04:11
Would a 21 day incubation period warrant a 21 day quarantine period ?
Or are Quarantines only for dogs and ships with plague, not airplanes ?

OneOffDave
13th Aug 2014, 09:39
I can't see how you could practically quarantine a whole country. You could close border crossings and airports but unless it's surrounded by a large fence people will be still able to come and go and you won't know who they are or where they're going.

If ships and aircraft arriving from an 'infected' country were quarantined there'd be quite an impact on airlines as they'd run out of crew fairly quickly as they'd have to be in quarantine too

SpringHeeledJack
13th Aug 2014, 11:43
Over 170 of the medical staff wearing bio-hazard protection have succumbed to the virus in the affected countries so far, which raises the question, how did they become infected ?


SHJ

tony draper
13th Aug 2014, 11:50
How long do viruses (sp?)survive outside the protection of the host? ie if a effected person sneezes how long would the sneezed out critters have teeth, anyone know?
:confused:

OFSO
13th Aug 2014, 11:58
Depends on environment, Tone, temperature & humidity. Why colds and flu don't have a chance of spreading in extremely low and dry climates. Nobody ever caught a cold at the sounding-rocket range in Kiruna in December !

500N
13th Aug 2014, 12:20
I can't see how you could practically quarantine a whole country. I read today that the age old method of closing off areas
and no one being allowed out was being implemented.

I think S/L and two other countries were working together
to cut off a certain area where the borders meet.


Spring
"Over 170 of the medical staff wearing bio-hazard protection have succumbed to the virus in the affected countries so far,
which raises the question, how did they become infected ?"

I was thinking the same thing when I read a lot of medical staff were patients or had died.

highflyer40
13th Aug 2014, 12:50
for one thing they don't have proper bio hazard gear!! just haphazard gloves and masks, so accidents can still prove dangerous. As well their training and decontamination procedures will be sorely lacking. And let's face it medicine in many parts of Africa is pretty poor, that's why Ebola can get a foothold and spread, without a mutation to an airborne vector Ebola would never get a foothold in the western world.

500N
13th Aug 2014, 13:06
Christ, if the West got organized I am sure there is an excess of gear and people to train on it somewhere.

UN ? MIA ?

Having a two day gob fest to say using untested drugs on Ebola patients is OK. Of course this is after they have been used :rolleyes:

"At the UN Headquarters in New York, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon designated David Nabarro as the Senior UN System Coordinator for Ebola Virus Disease. In a press encounter, he called on the international community to respond urgently to the shortage of doctors, nurses and equipment, including protective clothing and isolation tents, saying “We need all hands on deck.”"

MG23
13th Aug 2014, 17:39
Over 170 of the medical staff wearing bio-hazard protection have succumbed to the virus in the affected countries so far, which raises the question, how did they become infected ?

You really think every nurse or doctor in Africa dealing with someone who has flu-like symptoms puts on a full bio-hazard suit?

I'm sure everyone dealing with suspected Ebola cases today is using as much protection as they have available. I'm equally sure that many medical staff who came into contact with Ebola early in the outbreak were not.

G-CPTN
13th Aug 2014, 17:45
Just heard about a place in the UK afflicted by norovirus saying that they have to clean every surface that might have been 'handled' (ie touched by anyone's hands or liable to be touched by hands in the future).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-28768362

No information on how long the infectiveness persists, however:-

The viruses are transmitted by fecally contaminated food or water, by person-to-person contact, and via aerosolization of the virus and subsequent contamination of surfaces.
The viruses continue to be shed after symptoms have subsided and shedding can still be detected many weeks after infection.

Vomiting, in particular, transmits infection effectively, and appears to allow airborne transmission. In one incident, a person who vomited spread infection right across a restaurant, suggesting that many unexplained cases of food poisoning may have their source in vomit.

126 people were dining at six tables in December 1998; one woman vomited onto the floor. Staff quickly cleaned up, and people continued eating. Three days later others started falling ill; 52 people reported a range of symptoms, from fever and nausea to vomiting and diarrhea.

Researchers plotted the seating arrangement: more than 90% of the people at the same table as the sick woman later reported becoming ill. There was a direct correlation between the risk of infection of people at other tables and how close they were to the sick woman. More than 70% of the diners at an adjacent table fell ill; at a table on the other side of the restaurant, the attack rate was still 25%.

Shellfish and salad ingredients are the foods most often implicated in norovirus outbreaks. Ingestion of shellfish that have not been sufficiently heated poses a high risk for norovirus infection.
Foods other than shellfish may be contaminated by infected food handlers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-20739085

highflyer40
13th Aug 2014, 19:21
G-CTPN
your point is?

tens if thousands get norovirus every year. it is quite a common virus.

back to protective clothing a proper biohazard suit costs tens of thousands of pounds. you can be sure they are not present in large numbers in Africa even now. The CDC people will have them and some other western medical staff but I doubt any African medical people have them.

they will have normal face masks and gloves and smocks and little else, and just imagine as you come up to give someone a drink of water and they have a coughing fit and projectile vomit blood filled mucus all over you.

G-CPTN
13th Aug 2014, 19:27
G-CTPN
your point is?
Just 'explaining' the persistence of the norovirus and the measures needed to curtail it.

Ebola is probably at least as persistent.

highflyer40
13th Aug 2014, 20:35
the thing with Ebola though is it is not spread easily. take a look online at Expert reports ( not news articles ) it is really only contagious in the final stages where people are not going to be out in public as they will be to sick.

it is mainly passed on to family and friends who look after the sick person.

Tarq57
13th Aug 2014, 21:48
the thing with Ebola though is it is not spread easily. take a look online at Expert reports ( not news articles ) it is really only contagious in the final stages where people are not going to be out in public as they will be to sick.

it is mainly passed on to family and friends who look after the sick person.
I've had a look at the CDC site, and the pages associated with the Ebola outbreak and nature of the disease.

I find it interesting that it is stated that contact with infected body fluids is required for infection (meaning it is infectious, but not as infectious as, say, a cold or flu.)
In another section of the site, it states that aerosol transmission has been demonstrated in the lab, but there is no evidence of it occurring in the field.

I wonder how they studied the likelihood of ''not occurring in the field"?

It would seem to me that there is definitely a chance of catching this one from airborne droplets, in some circumstances. G-CPTN's 'vomit' scenario seems a likely candidate for the spreading of virus.

It's kind-of like AIDS in the eighties. The experts came out with definitive statements on how it could be transmitted. Didn't/couldn't account for the 10% of "unknown means of transmission" cases.
Some of those would have been needles/unprotected sex, and the subject was either telling porkies, or genuinely couldn't remember. Some others were probably an unknown - and considered unlikely -method of transmission.

Just conjecture on my part. I know enough about viruses though to know that I wouldn't want to be in the same room (or country) as this one, though.

unstable load
14th Aug 2014, 08:05
Herr Drapes,
I can't find the link where I read it, but the virus appears to be quite hardy when in body fluids/faeces etc, but is not an aerosol transmission risk. In other words, if someone sneezes in a room, chances are you will be OK, but if you clean up his vomit/crap/blood without adequate protection, then you are in trouble.
Corpses are supposedly contagious for a few days after death, too.

Semen is rather bizarrley infectous for up to 50 days, so if you survive Ebola, don't go out for a few beers and a leg-over to celebrate for a while...:E

OneOffDave
14th Aug 2014, 09:50
From conversations with virologists, the difference between the theoretical airborne transmission in the lab and the unlikely transmission in the field is that the fluids that it's carried in don't readily become aerosol out in the real world. Splashing with vomit or blood doesn't usually have enough velocity to aerosolize the fluid.

Rwy in Sight
14th Aug 2014, 10:49
So how to you clean vomit or other bodily fluids without making the matters worst?

Rwy in Sight

tony draper
14th Aug 2014, 10:58
What happens if it gets into the drinking water?:uhoh:

OneOffDave
14th Aug 2014, 12:53
RWS:

Decontamination guidance is in Appendix 10 of this document.

Management of Hazard Group 4 VHF (http://www.hpa.org.uk/webc/HPAwebFile/HPAweb_C/1194947382005)

500N
15th Aug 2014, 04:27
Just heard on the radio that they have severely underestimated the level of infection and spread of Ebola across Africa and are playing catch up big time.

ORAC
15th Aug 2014, 08:45
The World Bank said on Thursday that international agencies were considering emergency food drops to help starving people in parts of Liberia and Sierra Leone that have been cordoned off to help stop the spread of the disease. Deaths of farmers have meant crops have rotted in the fields, while shops have closed and lorry drivers have refused to take deliveries to affected areas.

Tim Evans, senior director for health at the World Bank, said the Mano River region, home to about 1 million people and an epicenter for the deadly disease, was a major concern. “There has been a lot of inflation in food prices and a lot of difficulty in getting food to the quarantined population,” he said. “We are looking at exactly what the needs are and where, and then looking at how we contribute to making sure that food gets to the right places.”

The UN's World Food Programme (WFP) has declared a Level Three food emergency, its highest threat rating, in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leon. It is urgently mobilising teams to get food into the area and prevent widespread hunger and deaths.

“We are pulling out all the stops,” said Steve Taravella, WFP spokesman in Washington.

vee-tail-1
15th Aug 2014, 09:58
That HPA report makes nightmare reading. If vomit and excrement gets into the sewage system no one knows what could happen. It's possible the virus may remain active for an unknown time .. perhaps weeks. Sewage often ends up in the sea in some countries, and washes around the coasts. How long might the virus remain active in the sea and how far might it travel in that time? Truly those of us that believe in such things might start to pray ... for there's not much else we can do at the moment.

vee-tail-1
15th Aug 2014, 10:53
So is this a likely World scenario for the next few decades?

1. Overpopulation due to an explosive birth rate in most countries.

2. In most European countries production and distribution of vital resources like food and water, highly dependent on oil and oil related products.

3. All remaining oil reserves located in Middle East countries.

4. Religious war erupting in Middle East resulting in redrawing of old imperial boundaries. (Think 18th Century Catholic/Protestant Europe) Now Iran and the Shias verses Saudi Arabia and the Sunnis.

5. All non Muslim people being removed from the Middle East by genocide or eviction / invasion.

6. Vast numbers of homeless displaced refugees needing help.

7. Fanatics gaining control of the oil wells and dams. High probability that oil will be cut off and dams destroyed.

8. Western governments fearing a major energy crisis opt for fracking as a short term fix while the religious wars in the oil producing countries play out over some years.

9. Huge increase in wind farms and solar panels as a way of keeping some of the lights on in European countries.

10. Muslim immigrants cause ever increasing violence in Europe as they follow their Sunni or Shia brother jihadists killing non Muslims to set up an Islamic caliphate.

11. God adds a side swipe to all this by causing a world wide epidemic of the Ebola and other viruses.

12. Mass deaths of humans all over the planet with a 90% fatality rate of those infected.

13. Peace returns to planet Earth with a small human population of a couple of million who were naturally immune to the devastating virus infections.

tony draper
15th Aug 2014, 11:24
14,Some bastard wanders in from desert and claims he has been talking to a god and has a new book of instructions for us,he is jumped upon by crowd and beaten to death.
Hopefully.
:rolleyes:

highflyer40
15th Aug 2014, 15:06
you ever think the reason the Middle East might be kicking off is because they no longer have main supply of oil? the time of Middle East excess is soon to come to an end as they run out and/or others start supplying there own

500N
15th Aug 2014, 15:08
No, I don't.

.......

500N
15th Aug 2014, 15:30
Geneva: The Ebola crisis in west Africa is outstripping the ability of aid organisations to stem the epidemic, the head of international medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) said Friday, likening it to a war.
"It is deteriorating faster, and moving faster, than we can respond to," Joanne Liu told reporters a day after returning from a 10-day mission to the hard-hit region.
"It is like war time. There is fear," she said.
"It's moving, and advancing, but we have no clue how it's going. Like in a war time, we have a total collapse of infrastructure," she added.
The outbreak started at the beginning of this year in the forested border zone between Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia, and has also spread to Nigeria.
While Guinea had initially been the hotbed, the pace of the outbreak there has slowed, with concerns now focused on the other countries, notably Liberia.
"If we don't stabilise Liberia, we'll never stabilise the region," said Liu.

Read more: Ebola moving too fast, doctors say (http://www.smh.com.au/world/ebola-moving-too-fast-doctors-say-20140815-104rik.html#ixzz3ATGv77pa)

MG23
15th Aug 2014, 17:51
Fear is probably the best thing at this point, since that will discourage people from doing stupid things that spread it further. Like continuing to fly people out of the countries that have serious infections.

PingDit
16th Aug 2014, 17:38
I've always wondered if mosquitos have helped to spread the likes of AIDS. After all, they're no more than flying, infected needles. Could the same be true of the Ebola virus?

OFSO
16th Aug 2014, 18:03
This question was asked and answered by the US military when I was in Germany, since the Rhine crossing near Oppenheim (where temporary bridges were kept stowed) was infested by mosquitos. It was said that the mosquitos could not transport sufficient amounts of the AIDS virus from an infected person.

Whether this is true or not I don't know, but it was the guys in the military told me THEY had been told by their officers.

I'm sure someone will now tell me it is BS.

OFSO
16th Aug 2014, 18:10
vee-tail-1, I fear your scenario(s) to be all too likely. The only thing you omitted was at some point the indiscriminate use of ABC weapons of which there is a legacy in Eastern Europe.

For myself I'm of any age when I expect to be Moving On in the next 10 (or if I am lucky, 20) years, but I'm related to several lovely children for whom I am very sorry. Plus my godchildren, ditto.

Capetonian
16th Aug 2014, 18:34
Can anyone explain if mosquitos have any useful purpose. Most animals/insects do, but mozzies seem to be a dangerous and annoying nuisance. What animal causes more deaths in Africa than any other? The mosquito.

I would have thought that eliminating the bloody things (pun intended) from the face of the earth would be a huge benefit. Anyone care to disagree?

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKPKwhpmd9BnJ-BkzqONCvXrkAgK5biZtNpoCZRSV-DVuda0gW

Mac the Knife
16th Aug 2014, 18:44
Nuclear (fission) power has been demonised for years by hysteria and ignorance about radiation and terrorism.

Fission technology has stagnated for years because of this and so we sit with an ageing number of reactors designed with '50s technology - no wonder there are problems like Fukushima.

All the world's long-lived high-level waste could be safely stored in a few square miles of desert or used as nuclear fuel in new cycles.

We have the potential for clean and safe unlimited carbon-neutral power from 6th generation fission reactors right now - a lot cleaner and safer than the billions of tonnes of filthy carcinogenic fossil fuel residues we so casually accept.

Solar, wind and wave power is expensive, litters the country with hideous wind-farms and collectors and the production of cells and magnets is certainly not carbon-neutral or non-polluting.

We are now resorting to fracking to find the last few pockets of fossil fuel - fouling the ground-water with all sorts of garbage.

No matter what techniques we use, fossil-fuel is going to run out (even when we've finished fukcing the Arctic and Andarctic). Meanwhile we bow and scrape to a bunch of camel-shaggers whose insane religion wants to obliterate Western civilisation (such as it is....)

Fusion is certainly not clean - absorbing the high neutron flux produces kilotonnes of highly radioactive waste from the reaction chambers which have to be periodically rebuilt from scratch at vast expense. And we still haven't reached even a break-even power output!

Fellers, we've gone completely bonkers and we'll sure as sugar-plums pay for it.

Mac

(who lives 30km from an antique 1970's fission reactor)

:cool:

tony draper
16th Aug 2014, 19:12
One suspect that as we speak in Nigeria tens of thousands of little glass vials are being filled with distilled water to be sold as Ebola Vaccine throughout the world at a fiver a hoy.
What an I talking about, why bother with distilled water,the punters wont know the difference.
:uhoh:

racedo
16th Aug 2014, 21:45
What happnens if Ebola mutates with Influenza virus ?

500N
16th Aug 2014, 21:56
You get Efluenza

CathayBrat
16th Aug 2014, 22:22
What happens if Ebola mutates with Influenza virus ?

They are trying to do that at Porton Down.

500N
16th Aug 2014, 22:25
And probably the CDC as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if the CDC has been working on this for a while since they have every known disease in the world.
Hence the sudden emergence of the drug that was previously unknown.

fitliker
17th Aug 2014, 02:24
How did they come up with the name ?
Does it have a technical name ?

Tarq57
17th Aug 2014, 06:41
You get Efluenza
Sounds like purgatory. ;)

highflyer40
17th Aug 2014, 06:59
500n

if you are talking about zmapp that is just one of about 5 Ebola drugs in testing right now. the canadian government has just shipped 1000 doses of another experimental drug to Africa as well.

just because we haven't heard of them doesn't mean they don't exist.

500N
17th Aug 2014, 07:05
Understand. Interesting re the Canadian one.

I can understand companies not wanting it "out there" so to speak, as happened with Zmapp, the clamour to use it when it hasn't been tested is huge. You see it with other drugs as well and people tend to go to the media to put pressure on to get it "approved".


Just reading various articles from around the world, it seems WHO have been behind the eight ball on this one from early in the piece, vastly underestimating things.

OFSO
17th Aug 2014, 07:28
Catalan TV news just reported a case in Alicante.

500N
17th Aug 2014, 07:36
Mainland Europe. Interesting to see what happens now.

OFSO
17th Aug 2014, 07:44
Property prices drop ?

500N
17th Aug 2014, 07:47
We are talking Spain, can they drop any lower ????

I would say a severe drop off in Tourism would be the biggest worry.

OFSO
17th Aug 2014, 09:01
We are talking Spain, can they drop any lower ????

Where I live prices hardly dropped at all. What did happen is that sales stagnated because owners hung on to properties. However two villas in our road sold in the past three months, at acceptable prices. One German sold to French, the other English sold to Russians. Another empty plot sold to French who built on it. Two other sales in our road in 2013.

Smaller real estate agents have gone bust. Bigger real estate agents are doing OK.

No doubt down south with gimcrack building and far from anywhere things are bad.

ORAC
17th Aug 2014, 10:13
Catalan TV news just reported a case in Alicante. Seem precautionary.

Health Authorities In Alicante Activate Protocols Over Another Suspected Ebola Case in Spain (http://www.thespainreport.com/10398/spanish-health-authorities-alicante-activate-alert-protocols-two-possible-ebola-cases/)

Spanish health authorities in the eastern Valencia region of Spain activated alert protocols on Saturday night over a new possible case of Ebola after a young Nigerian man was admitted to a hospital in the city of Alicante with fever and “several other symptoms” of the disease. If confirmed, this would be the first case of Ebola virus reported in Spain. Father Miguel Pajares, a Spanish priest, died last week in a Madrid hospital after being repatriated from Liberia where he was infected with the disease.

The Nigerian patient’s partner, without visible symptoms, was also present at the hospital but had not been admitted, a spokesman for St. John’s Hospital told The Spain Report by telephone. “An alert protocol has been activated preventively due to a suspected Ebola virus case”, said the spokeswoman: “the patient has been admitted, and is clinically stable in an isolated area. He was initially admitted to the General Hospital and then brought here. Both his clinical and epidemiological symptoms suggest it might be Ebola. He has a temperature above 38.3ºC and has been vomiting”. She said the patient had told doctors he had arrived in Spain: “a few days ago”.

Samples have been taken from the patient and are being sent tonight to Spain’s National Microbiology Centre near Madrid for analysis. The spokeswoman could not confirm when the results are expected........

Doctors at the city’s General Hospital sent the patients to the St. John’s Hospital as this is the designated health centre in the city for dealing with Ebola cases. St. John’s hospital would not confirm news that the man had been admitted at 7 p.m.

Police escorted the young Nigerian, in his thirties, between the two hospitals in a medicalised ambulance. His partner was transported in the small convoy but in a normal ambulance. The patient originally refused to be moved between the two hospitals without his partner, so she was brought along in a second ambulance. Online news site Alicante Actualidad reported the patient spent six hours in the emergency room of the first hospital before being transferred to the second.

Health workers were wearing protective gear, and regional newspaper La Verdad reported a special containment unit had been set up in the emergency room of St. John’s Hospital......