210 down near Numbulwar?

[that guy]

Heard the mayday over center this morning, engine trouble over rough land looking to put it down in the trees.. Doesn't sound good...

Dornier and several other planes searching the area this afternoon, any news?

Hoping all are well

[SpyderPig]

Word is 2 POB, Both survived with injuries but managed to walk away and evac'd to Darwin for treatment.

Details are sketchy but for sure very well done by the pilot to get a result like this in a difficult situation in a very unforgiving part of the country.

[Jabawocky]

Great news for a change from a bad situation. Keep clam and wings level and fly it all the way.... :ok:

Glad to hear that result.

[that guy]

Great news! Good job to the pilot!

Also a big shout out to the guy relaying in UZO, calm and concise while one of his coworkers was in peril, great work mate!

[seneca208]

If the bloke in UZO was one of his coworkers, it'll be a Katherine Aviation machine I think.

[caa]

HGZ. T210 converted to IO-550.

[AussieNick]

If I remember correctly, that is a harsh area.

Very close to the water though

Not wrong there. Unless he was coming in from Groote he'd be over the trees. Not too many places I'd want to try and put a plane into.

Good to hear they got out alright.

[Lasiorhinus]

What a scary scary place to have to put an aeroplane down. There is no roads or flat land at all out there, and to have managed to walk away from a wreck like that is simply incredible! Every landing you can walk away from...

Congratulations CC, you did well.

Also a big shout out to the two in UZO and YDU - both of you remaining calm and methodically searching the area until you found her. I can't imagine what was going through your head, but to keep it going so professionally until you had positive confirmation that they were alive - to both of you, too, well done.

[PLovett]

I thoroughly endorse what Lasiorhinus said. Top effort by all involved. :ok:

Having flown there more than a few times it is not a place to have an engine problem no matter where you are coming from. :uhoh:

[BreakNeckSpeed]

Have any details emerged as to the cause of this event?

[SpyderPig]

Preliminary report here

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2014/aair/ao-2014-059.aspx

[Octane]

My brother and his mates flew that 210. I've had a few rides in it, the boys liked the extra "go" it had. But that was 20 years ago! Amazed it's (was) still around....

[Octane]

My brother and his mates flew that 210. I've had a few rides in it, the boys liked the extra "go" it had. But that was 20 years ago! Amazed it's (was) still around....

[maxgrad]

On that one day that pilot was the best pilot on the planet.
No ego
No pretending
No bullish t
Two people lived when the universe conspired against them.
My hat off to you.

[Lumps]

The engineer reported that, although the aircraft had been using oil at a higher rate than previously, the compression testing performed at the last 100-hourly inspection indicated that compression was within tolerances.
The engineer had advised company pilots that, rather than flying at higher altitudes, with higher engine revolutions per minute (RPM) settings and a MP of about 21 inches Hg, it was more desirable to remain at a lower altitude where 23 inches Hg could be achieved.

Oil consumption going up, directed to fly power settings that would produce slightly higher than normal peak pressures, and most probably a lifetime of running at slightly ROP settings creating maximum force on... the.... Conrod! C'mon ATSB isn't anyone in there curious? We've been building these engines for over 50 years really shouldn't be breaking conrods anymore. Unless for some reason these engines are actually very strong but are getting unknowingly abused...

Is there evidence that supports the implied assertion in this report that low rpm / high mp will reduce oil consumption versus high rpm / low mp?

[BlatantLiar]

The ATSB really should elaborate on why the conrod actually broke. Instead they've left a lazy comment that reads 'The engine failed due to a broken conrod'. A life of operating at 70% power at 50degROP and climbs conducted at 25/2500 took its toll on this engine. As Lumps mentioned, these engines are very strong thats why most of them last but you'll get one that doesnt (100HTR, nearly buddy, nearly!) and it ends up becoming involved in a completely avoidable accident.

[yr right]

I saw the pics when the aircraft was retrieved. It failed down around #1 and 2 cly and lifted both mags out and onto the case
Nasty hole in the top of the case.

Cheers

[Jabawocky]

Investigation: AO-2014-059 - Collision with terrain involving a Cessna 210, VH-HGZ, 50 km W of Numbulwar Aerodrome, NT on 28 March 2014 (http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2014/aair/ao-2014-059.aspx)

I thought the Airvan report was a complete and utter embarrassing disgrace. This one makes the Airvan report look like a technical masterpiece.

ATSB........either get some experts or get out of the business. :=

What waffle.

JD......you wanna start up articles again mate? :E

[displaced gangster]

"Is there evidence that supports the implied assertion in this report that low rpm / high mp will reduce oil consumption versus high rpm / low mp?"





Low rpm/high mp increases radial tension on piston rings reducing glazing and subsequently oil consumption.

• Atmospheric engines that have been ferried across the Pacific on delivery tend to have higher oil consumption in service, this is due to the low mp at high levels during delivery and reduced radial tension on piston rings and cylinder glazing during the important running in phase.

• Older Catepillar Diesel engines are notorious for high oil consumption if the engines are not loaded up, in fact the old 12E graders had a placard in the cabin stating not to "baby the engine".
If they were operated at low power settings for extended periods of time, accumulated engine oil would stain the exhaust stack.:cool

[NIK320]

Still in plaster from what I have heard.

[Hempy]

I am in full concurrence with Jaba, the ATSB should be ashamed to put the title "Investigation" on that piece of rubbish.

A brief commentary on the flight, some obscure reference to oil and manifold pressure, all summed up in total with this gem of a conclusion..

From the photographs provided by the operator (Figure 2), the ATSB assessed that a connecting rod appeared to have broken and separated from the crankshaft, resulting in a hole in the crankcase. This precipitated a catastrophic engine failure. The smoke entering the cockpit was likely to have been from burning oil.

Seems to me they've had a phone interview with the LAME, the pilot or passenger, and the CP, got 2 photos emailed to them, pulled the ATC tapes and called it a day.

Solid work gentlemen
:rolleyes:

edit: Apologies, the actual conclusion is this..


...
The object of a safety investigation is to identify and reduce safety-related risk. ATSB investigations determine and communicate the safety factors related to the transport safety matter being investigated.
...

About this report
Decisions regarding whether to conduct an investigation, and the scope of an investigation, are based on many factors, including the level of safety benefit likely to be obtained from an investigation. For this occurrence, a limited-scope, fact-gathering investigation was conducted in order to produce a short summary report, and allow for greater industry awareness of potential safety issues and possible safety actions.

Thank you, ATSB. You've just 'communicated' to us all and made us 'aware' that (if in fact it was the conrod that caused the initial failure in this case) by your 'determination' conrods can break, and this is a 'potential safety issue'..

[Jabawocky]

I doubt they used words from the CP. I know him, and I think he is far more astute than the reports words, so I really wonder what they got from where. :confused:

[Delta_Foxtrot]

A bit semantic but, in my experience, the hole in the crankcase is usually caused by the portion of connecting rod which is still connected to the crankshaft while it is still rotating (momentarily) at 2000+ RPM. The portion of connecting rod which is 'separated' generally comes to a standstill with its piston inside its associated cylinder. If a big end cap comes off, the connecting rod would be unlikely to put a hole in the top of the crankcase. :ugh:

[Hempy]

:rolleyes:

Engine manufacturer/type: Irrelevant
Pilot age/experience: Irrelevant
Gear/flap settings: Irrelevant
Examination into the prior days maintenance and the 'suggestion' of low altitude/high mp ops: Irrelevant
Commentary on:
- SE Charter ops over tiger country
- The value of a MAYDAY call on a remote CTAF v's Area frequency
- Survival factors..

..Irrelevant :rolleyes:

There's not enough useful information in that thing to be of any use for even any sort of trend analysis. What a joke. :ugh:

[BlatantLiar]

Engine manufacturer/type: Irrelevant
Pilot age/experience: Irrelevant
Gear/flap settings: Irrelevant
Examination into the prior days maintenance and the 'suggestion' of low altitude/high mp ops: Irrelevant
Commentary on:
- SE Charter ops over tiger country
- The value of a MAYDAY call on a remote CTAF v's Area frequency
- Survival factors..

..Irrelevant

There's not enough useful information in that thing to be of any use for even any sort of trend analysis. What a joke.

Apart from the tiger country bit, Damn straight! ATSB you reading?

[Hempy]

Apart from the tiger country bit, Damn straight!

Fair cop, although tbh reading the "investigation", other than the fact he couldn't see anywhere to put it down from 4,500 where there weren't any trees, no one would know what the terrain enroute was like :rolleyes:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

O.K....

I'll add to the post.... Re the quote....
"93 Km west of Numbulwar Aerodrome, Northern Territories, but the aircraft impacted trees and caught fire."

Which one of the 'Northern Territories' Oi wonder.......

Probably just a 'typo' OI know....but where's the 'proof reading' by the original author..??

OOOAAA...:=

Orf to take me pills now.....:p

[Pinky the pilot]

Orf to take me pills now.....

Don`t forget the tot of single malt to wash `em down Griffo:ok:

Wonder if we can persuade Mac Job to take over the report writing again?
(Pity there isn`t an `oh how I wish` smilie)

I say again; Bring back the old Aviation Safety Digest!!:ok::ok::ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Thanks Pinks....:p

Perhaps I should have indicated my real disappointment with the current mob....

Quality of reporting, integrity, and therefore, credence.... Of said report....:sad:

No cheers here.....:eek:

[Lumps]

Low rpm/high mp increases radial tension on piston rings reducing glazing and subsequently oil consumption.

Thanks for that gangsta. I've heard another along these lines - low mp high rpm can cause ring 'flutter' and that high mp will prevent this by the higher radial tension. Can you confirm / debunk this?

(I assume by flutter that the engine oracle I was speaking to meant the ring was somewhat 'loose' in the barrel which made it prone to a stop - start sort of motion within the cylinder groove. Just guessing, don't know how you'd ever investigate it)