Why does Maverick Helicopters not hire female pilots?

[Helomaniac]

I am appalled by my recent research into Maverick Helicopters. I have learned that the rumors are true, they refuse to hire ANY female pilots. Do they feel females aren't good enough pilots or is this simple (and illegal) discrimination? How do they get away with such an archaic hiring policy in this day and age?

[ReverseFlight]

As you said, it's just a rumor. I appreciate it's a fine line between rigorous selection and discrimination.

I have not flown the EC130, but as it is a variant of the AS350, I'd like to know how many pounds of force is required on the cyclic where there is hydraulic failure, the servos are dumped and you need to fly it for some distance to a run-on landing (even guys break into sweat). I have undergone such training on the AS350 and wonder whether it might be a factor influencing selection. I know of at least one charter company who had to let go of their best (lady) pilot precisely for this reason.

[Curtis E Carr]

I thought the EC130 had dual hydraulic systems

[eivissa]

:ok:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/83128200/Hyds.JPG

[jayteeto]

Last I heard, there wasn't quotas to fill. Some major companies do not have female pilots. That doesn't mean that they won't, it's just they don't. Huge difference. HUGE.
A few years ago, whilst a pilot on a police unit, our boss was tackled by HR. Apparently the unit had no 'minority' personnel and it didn't look good. We needed to positively look at ethnic (no applications) female (ditto) Blind!!, wheelchair and LGBT amongst others. The only posts on the unit were active aircrew.
The answer to this conundrum is simple. Employ the best applicant for the job, forget sex, race and orientation and get the PC brigade to poke off.

[Dennis Kenyon]

Not sure how relevant this might be, but when I flew with Maverick out of Grand Canyon airport, a couple of years back, the CP simply told me the sight-seeing pax didn't like seeing a lady at the helm!!!!

I've taught a dozen or so females for PPLs and have to say the majority possessed handling at least as good as most males, and a few were better!

Head down and away! Dennis K.

[topendtorque]

Certainly would be perhaps not illegal, but grossly stupid and incompetent to discriminate against a very competent pilot applicant just because he didn't wear a bra. This reminds me of an argument I had with the local postmaster once.

I had gone to see him to complain about us getting the wrong mail all the time. It was easy to see that the mail sorter was dyslexic because of the box numbers that appeared on the mail in our bag. I found that the person responsible was known to me and had a well known problem in this regard.

The PM told me he cannot discriminate against applicants and was bound to employ anyone. I said, "you stupid little bastard, how do you think I would go employing a pilot with no arms because of the same childish rule, the fact is this person has a severe disability which precludes her ability to do the specific task she is required to do, are you going to shift her on so we can get our own mail or do I go to a higher authority?"

He quickly changed the staff member onto something else, like sweeping floors or similar.

[Helomaniac]

Not sure how relevant this might be, but when I flew with Maverick out of Grand Canyon airport, a couple of years back, the CP simply told me the sight-seeing pax didn't like seeing a lady at the helm!!!!

That is the reason I have heard as well Dennis. I wonder how many of those tourist flew into Vegas on an airliner with a lady up front?

[Brian Abraham]

the CP simply told me the sight-seeing pax didn't like seeing a lady at the helmA sight seeing company (fixed wing) employs many, many female pilots here in Oz. At one time numbering some 90% of the crews. Owner preferred them in fact.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m56/babraham227/img012.jpg

[Cows getting bigger]

I know a 350/355 TRI/TRE and senior CAA examiner who, last time I looked, was most definitely not male. She's also rather good at what she does.

[jayteeto]

I'm not saying the girls are not good, but saying it's illegal grips my s##t.

[rantanplane]

"the CP simply told me the sight-seeing pax didn't like seeing a lady at the helm!!!!"

so were the sight-seeing pax mainly male or female? any hen partys?

[OvertHawk]

It may "grip your ****" Jay, but the simple fact is, in most developed countries, that it is illegal - whether you like it or not.

I am no fan of the PC, pandering, quotas that you describe in your earlier post. Nor am i a fan of "positive" discrimination - discrimination of any kind is unfair.

What is needed is sensible recruiting that gives the job to the best person regardless of race, gender or other factors but that is allowed to take account of certain physical attributes associated with the job (such as not employing a very small / slight person - of any gender - to fly an AS350B3 if there is a fear that they can't handle it without the hydraulics).

Any employer who is clearly operating a policy of not employing women (or anyone else for that matter) and openly boasting about it is merely setting himself up for a legal battle, which he is unlikely to win, and strengthening the case for those who want quotas and positive discrimination.

It has been my experience that the women i have come across in this industry have, generally, been better than the average man since they have had to be more committed and determined to succeed.

And while we're at it... Topendtorque - Whilst having a dyslexic mail sorter is clearly a silly idea, the suggestion that an appropriate job for someone with a disability is "Sweeping floors or something similar" is exactly the kind of condescending, patronising, attitude that has gotten us here in the first place! :ugh:

[topendtorque]

condescending, patronising, attitude that has gotten us here in the first place! :ugh:

You are right of course, she should have been let go on the spot, perhaps he was being kind to her but dashed if I can think of anything in a fixed full on paper clerical office that would have suited her. Unless I have missed something, there ain't anything condescending about not receiving your mail because someone with a known disability is unable to sort it.

BTW I have personally employed a number of female pilots and checked out quite some others, as DK says, some excellent, some good, some not so good, some bloody hopeless. That is a fact of life, no law is going to change that, so think carefully about your PC laws.

[SilsoeSid]

The girls must be as good as, or even better than, the boys, otherwise how else would you be able to explain why the Dennis Kenyon Scholarship was only ever won by a female?

[fly911]

I'm not saying the girls are not good, but saying it's illegal grips my s##t. jayteeto Employ the best applicant for the job, forget sex, race and orientation and get the PC brigade to poke off.
Jayteeto, I wish it were that simple. I remember in the 1960s walking up to a diner and seeing a sign that read "WHITES ONLY". The reason that those signs aren't still there is a law saying that you can't discriminate on the basis of race. Yes, it may be a pain at times, but it's a small price to get those signs out of the window. Please be patient. We are on the road to a better world.

[jayteeto]

Its that simple where I work. There are equal amounts of females in the team, we have an open gay man and half of our doctors are not white. Everyone is treated equally and I personally have never heard any discriminatory gossip. Each and every one of them is there on merit, not quotas. Imagine how it would be seen if the law demanded it??? People would be viewed as a 'token' minority who probably stole the job from a more capable white guy.
If in the, so called, majority of developed countries, this is illegal, then they have some more developing to do.........

[Flyting]

Imagine how it would be seen if the law demanded it???
You don't have to imagine... just look at the demise of South Africa. The entire professional/educated work force are suffering because of BEE...to the slow destruction of every service, production, manufacturing etc etc...
A few years back SA Airways had to send their trainee pilots to Australia just so that there was no 'pushing through' because of quotas :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[Helomaniac]

Overthawk says it best. By no means am I one to advocate lowering standards in order to satisfy quotas. All I am saying is that it's wrong to dismiss an applicant in advance simply because she is a female. I have instructed males and females and there are males who aren't strong enough to handle hydraulics off as well as some of the females do. If a person, male or female doesn't appear to have the physical strength then they aren't qualified and that would be a good reason not to hire them. But everyone deserves a chance and if you have over a hundred pilots on staff but not one is a female, I find it hard to believe female applicants are getting that chance.

[jayteeto]

Help, agreed 100%, if they are openly bragging about it, not good.

[Radgirl]

Thank goodness such sex discrimination is illegal in the modern world. Please don't lump stopping women having equal employment prospects 100 years after suffrage with the positive discrimination South Africa imposed just weeks after the fall of apartheid.

When you dinosaurs fall ill and come into my hospital I will presume you will only want to be treated by a male doctor. Sadly there are days when we are all women.

[Matari]

If this business is discriminating on the basis of sex then the business in violation of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and subsequent Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Act. The business and owners would be subject to prosecution and any potential job applicant who was discriminated against would have a cause of action against the business.

And rightly so.

[jayteeto]

Radgirl, dont be such a drama queen. I'm no dinosaur, quite the opposite. When I go into a hospital, I want to be treated by the doctor that was the best one to apply for the job, not one who was forced on the hospital. If that doctor was a female, black, lesbian, wheelchair bound gypsy, I would be happy.

[The Night Owl]

I'm highly critical of femal drivers, however their attention to detail, adherence to the rule book and 'lack of testicles' is very reassuring up in the air.

All female pilots I have encountered have impressed me with the aforementioned attributes as well as many more, while some of their male counterparts who impressed me albeit for different reasons are sadly no longer with us.

[grumpytroll]

This is a pilot who I flew with and worked with. She is highly skilled both on the flight deck and as a leader of people. She has had a very challenging career and has risen above all obstacles. Her bio is much more impressive than is written in this article. She is currently flying SPIFR in the 145 and the BK is the backup ship at her base.

If the link doesn't work, google Jan Sierra 2013 National EMS Pilots Association Pilot of the Year.

Award-winning pilot keeps Flight For Life in good position (http://www.jsonline.com/news/waukesha/award-winning-pilot-keeps-flight-for-life-in-good-position-b99142711z1-232946901.html)

I have flown with hundreds of pilots and she is at the top of my list.

Cheers

[Dennis Kenyon]

For SS and interested readers ... Let me tell you a story.

Yes, the last three winners of the 'Dennis Kenyon Junior Scholarship' HAVE all been female. Applications are initially sifted by me and although I sit as Scholarship Chairman (Person!) I don't vote. Applicants whose Dad is an airline pilot, a well placed businessman or similar ... don't get past the first stage since the scholarship is intended only for those who haven't a financial cat in hells chance of becoming a rotary flyer.

The applications that make it through to the second stage are individually considered by a scholarship committee and around a dozen or so are selected for interview. Following interview up to four finalists are selected for an aptitude flight test with an independent TRE/CP. (The last being the highly experienced Ian MacGregor ...CP of Fast Helicopters.

Our previous two scholarships had been won by females, and following the committee interviews stage, two applicants were selected for final flight test selection ... being one male and one female. On test day, I visited Ian in his office and said something like "Look Ian, we've had two successive lady winners, we can't really have a third."

Ian's secretary was present and pulled me aside. "Dennis, if you really mean that, there would have been no point in any females making an application."

I realised what a prat I'd been and accepted the point instantly. "OK Ian, my apologies," I said. "Just select the applicant you consider best." Ian made his decision and our scholarship was won yet again by another lady.

Out of interest, our first winner was Zoe Spain, who many of you will have spoken to since she is an Air Traffic Controller at Fairoaks Airport. The second lady, Hannah Nobbs joined Agusta Westland and now works in the design department. Our third lady winner was Georgie Dixon who works at Sywell Airfield with Sloane Helicopters.

Hope these notes solve the ideas of partisanship. I plead not guilty.

We are hoping to run the scholarship with a major media sponsor for 2015. If successful, details will be announced in the aviation press.

Regard to all Pruners. Dennis Kenyon.

[jayteeto]

Tell Ian to give his secretary a pay rise, he/she had the guts to speak up and be honest. A few people in the industry could do with listening to a person like that. So,

Best person for the post, EVERY time!!

[Azhigher]

The last I heard Maverick had a female pilot flying their fixed wing. They've also had female pilots in their 130's in the past.

I asked the CP of Maverick Las Vegas if he didn't hire females or if he just didn't have one at the moment and he said the latter.

Sidenote: I worked there.

[jayteeto]

So, if that is true, can we say that the following scenario is true........

Candidate: "You didn't employ me because I am a/b/c/d or even e?"

Maverick: "No, we didn't employ you because the person who got the job was better than you. Oh yes, he happens to be male"

[Thomas coupling]

But one has to accept that female pilots go on maternity leave without warning, distract male crew members, take umbrage at certain male chauvanist jokes and sue at the slightest sign of anything that might be remotely perceived as sexist.
Apart from that I am surpirsed tourist operators don't employ more women pilots purely because of the added bonus of them being eye candy perhaps?
Take me for instance - I only hire female PA's - it save having to stock air fresheners in the office, kitchen and changing rooms.:D

[Old Age Pilot]

TC,

I do believe you may have just killed this thread off :)

[Peter-RB]

Hey TC,

You old antique, even you will know maternity leave comes approx 7/8 months after the initial things like ...Oh well done, and what do you want, Boy or Girl.., and things like pass the sick bag please TC...that's whilst you are still in the pre-flight.

Sorry Girls, but TC has a point,.. but everyone understands what he means, its just that most of them are trying hard to be really good Politicians.

Me I am a realist I have a shed full of children and never taken maternity leave, cos I didn't swell up and get all moody and tearful, so don't take it too hard, that's what The Lord put us all here for

Peter R-B
Lancashire :eek: