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meadowrun
22nd Mar 2014, 09:37
There are two types of airport terminal seats.

Type One - reasonably comfortable bench that in a pinch (delays, cancellations, acts of god, terrorist activities 10,000 miles away etc.) could be used as a makeshift temporary cot.

Type Two - reasonably comfortable bench when sat down that has been designed, specified to be as impossible to sleep upon as is possible. This usually consists of the addition of many arm rests or metal half hoop dividers at thigh level. To create these requires a conscious decision to do so. Something like this - " I am fully aware that bad things happen occasionally and people will end up stranded for hours and hours and sometimes overnight(s). They will eventually become exhausted and often have children similarly knackered. Regardless, we will not have them sleeping on our benches in our terminal and this is how we will do that."

These are the people I like to meet in dark alleys.

http://www.featurepics.com/FI/Thumb300/20080328/Airport-Terminal-Seating-668441.jpg

Ancient Observer
22nd Mar 2014, 09:48
Accountants design those seats. All accountants travel biz class so do not need to see or sit in cattle class seats.
Simples.

joy ride
22nd Mar 2014, 09:50
Yup, I agree! Non-versatile design hacks me off.

Capot
22nd Mar 2014, 10:22
It's to prevent 1 person occupying the space provided for 4 people, under crowded conditions following delays, which is exactly when people want to sleep on the benches and ignore all the other people looking for a seat.

On a more general note, many airport operators, including my one-time employer the BAA, prefer to keep people moving around the shopping opportunities to purchase over-priced tat and "duty-free" stuff, mostly goods on which there is no duty in the first place. They achieve that by filling the space that could have been seating with more tat emporiums.

They also strive constantly to maximise the "dwell time" that passengers are forced to spend in their shopping malls, but that's another story. It used to be a Key Performance Indicator for terminal managers to lengthen the dwell time.

joy ride
22nd Mar 2014, 11:40
Modern airports and stations: shopping and eating malls with transport options.

The problem is they want as many people in them as possible spending as much as possible, but when things go wrong and there is no spare space the poor cattle, er, passengers face total misery.

PAXboy
22nd Mar 2014, 12:15
Agreed but the next seating problem is that, increasingly, there area decreasing numbers of seats. :ouch:

How do we save money? Reduce the seating by 10% or 15%, then the'll go and sit in the cafes and buy stuff. :ugh:

Save construction and maintenance money on:-


seating.
small information screens (oft discussed in here)
toilet facilites that are insufficient and with poor ventilation.
fewer windows as we've lined the place with shops (When they announce a new terminal they usually talk about how they want to show the a/c and give inspiration and other PR rubbish but when it comes to it - it's shops. Primary example is the changes at STN since it was started.
public address system that cannot be heard because there are not enough speakers CLOSE to the listener as it's cheaper to have fewer at high level.
don't provide power points as the pax will steal electricity to charge their laptops and phones whilst their waiting for the fog to clear.
< suggestions welcome >

joy ride
22nd Mar 2014, 16:18
I find it particularly helpful if the signs to the Gates are small and partially hidden behind huge illuminated signs for fast food, coffee and cosmetics shops, we have to get our priorities right.

mixture
22nd Mar 2014, 18:47
meadowrun,

I'd just suggest you fly more often, then you get type three seats a.k.a lounge access. :cool:

meadowrun
22nd Mar 2014, 19:27
Doomed or blessed with staff travel for life. Mine or the airline's. And I refuse to buy J/C.

HamishMcBush
22nd Mar 2014, 21:36
One of the members of the Professional Body that I belong to did a survey some years ago. It involved working with some airports; they did not view SLF as their "customers" so really couldn't care much about them. They saw their customers as the shopkeepers and airlines.
Says it all, really :uhoh:

MidlandDeltic
22nd Mar 2014, 21:59
One of the members of the Professional Body that I belong to did a survey some years ago. It involved working with some airports; they did not view SLF as their "customers" so really couldn't care much about them. They saw their customers as the shopkeepers and airlines.
Says it all, really :uhoh:

The thing is, in a business sense that is correct. Passengers in most cases do not directly pay the airports - the airlines and the shopkeepers do, and they then recoup their costs by selling their services/products on to the SLF. The only direct payment for most pax to the airport is car-parking, although that is also often contracted out to a third party.

Davef68
24th Mar 2014, 13:27
Agreed but the next seating problem is that, increasingly, there area decreasing numbers of seats. :ouch:

How do we save money? Reduce the seating by 10% or 15%, then the'll go and sit in the cafes and buy stuff. :ugh:

Save construction and maintenance money on:-


seating.
small information screens (oft discussed in here)
toilet facilites that are insufficient and with poor ventilation.
fewer windows as we've lined the place with shops (When they announce a new terminal they usually talk about how they want to show the a/c and give inspiration and other PR rubbish but when it comes to it - it's shops. Primary example is the changes at STN since it was started.
public address system that cannot be heard because there are not enough speakers CLOSE to the listener as it's cheaper to have fewer at high level.
don't provide power points as the pax will steal electricity to charge their laptops and phones whilst their waiting for the fog to clear.
< suggestions welcome >



Raffles to take money from the gullible for high perfomance cars, much better than the seats that used to be there.

str12
24th Mar 2014, 20:15
From my time working at an airport I learnt it was primarily a car park with a runway, some shops and a train station attached. Car parking was by far the largest revenue generator.

easyflyer83
25th Mar 2014, 12:00
Personally, I think people should stop whinging. Long delays are still fairly rare and the 'tat' sold in the airport is actually quite high end stuff. Further more, there are a whole swaithe of the air travelling public who judge an airport on its retailing offering.

Dont Hang Up
28th Mar 2014, 09:32
Personally, I think people should stop whinging.
erm?

Long delays are still fairly rare
Happen on a daily basis. Whenever you visit a busy airport you can be sure that at least some of your fellow travellers are having a really bad day. The airline has certain obligations (like those grudging refreshment vouchers that the restaurants look at with barely concealed contempt), but the airport quite frankly does not give a damn

and the 'tat' sold in the airport is actually quite high end stuff.
At very high end prices. Relying on a captive and very bored audience.

Further more, there are a whole swaithe of the air travelling public who judge an airport on its retailing offering.
I have been using airports for 30 years and I have still to meet one.

Davef68
28th Mar 2014, 22:14
I have been using airports for 30 years and I have still to meet one.


Yeah, I can't say anyone has ever said 'great shops' about an airport departure lounge to me

(re delays, my personal record last year was 6 hours at Gatwick, which was outwith the ATC delays that happened)

PAXboy
29th Mar 2014, 02:59
I used to enjoy shopping at airports because the items were novel and, often, reasonably priced. But then, I've been paxing for over 48 years... :bored:

Now, unless there is some urgent item I've forgotten, I just head for the lounge. If there's no lounge, straight to the gate and read until boarding.

Load Toad
29th Mar 2014, 03:03
Changi is a good airport. There are plenty of things to do, its clean, comfortable - never seems to be anywhere near full; there are things to eat, do & buy more or less whatever your budget. Plenty of seats & places to rest.

Most air ports are :mad: They are purely passenger processing facilities.

Some are truly awful.

My local - Hong Kong regularly wins awards but for what I'm not sure. Yes you can reasonably expect your bags to be delivered within 30 minutes & you can take a train, bus or car / taxi to / from quite easily.

But it is dull. The shops are OK if you want to spend HK$16000 or more on a Tatty Handbag. It is now regularly rammed (as it processes mainland tour groups etc). If you are not a HK ID card holder it can take ages to pass immigration and going through security is hardly fast (but nowhere is these days).

I used to enjoy travelling...& airports but now it is mostly boring, dull and painful.

The terrible seating & lack of clean toilets in most airports adds a further insult.

Heathrow Harry
29th Mar 2014, 17:48
I think it was Neil Gaiman or Terry Pratchett that suggested that airport design had been subcontracted to the Devil.....................

defizr
29th Mar 2014, 18:32
When I read the title of this thread I thought it meant somewhere where you sit and wait to die. It does feel that way sometimes.

easyflyer83
29th Mar 2014, 18:52
My point was that long delays are actually quite rare. I travel a lot and can't remember my last one. Some would argue that delays are fewer than they were 20 years ago. This would especially be the case if you were used to flying charter carriers.


The items sold at the airport, again, aren't tat but can be quite high end. I've made some decent savings in the past when compared to the high street.


My partner hates using LPL because he thinks the terminal is "boring". And feedback from pax at a carrier I used to work at consistently cited lack of retail as a drawback of us using MAN T3.


You forget that despite the added "stress" (I never get the stress but I concede some do) the holiday starts at the airport and the retail offering is part and parcel of that. If you travel regularly and you see the airport as little more than a train station then that is understandable but it doesn't mean the retail offering is wrong.


We all know how airports rely more on non-aeronautical revenue than they ever did so I won't labour the point. Suffice to say it helps, in part, to keep us travelling cheaper than we used to. We can all look back at the old days, often with rose tinted glasses, (even I do) but we have to accept that they aren't coming back. Quiet terminals, less stressful security, complimentary newspapers, free IFE, complimentary hot meals on the shortest of flights were all great but we paid through the nose for pleasure.

Heathrow Harry
30th Mar 2014, 08:57
because of security we spend a lot more time in the airport - the high end shopping is for the once in a while well off passenger - the rest have to put upwith a grim W H Smith's which offers the same choice as my local underground station branch

If i do get through then get to the gate and chill out - even the lounges aren't that good in many places these days but the real bugger is if you are in transit and have 2-3 hour +++ wait.......

Davef68
30th Mar 2014, 23:28
Or an expensive Wetherspoons with prices 70% higher than the High Street.....

fdcg27
30th Mar 2014, 23:47
The lack of gate seating often seems to backfire on the sit down eateries, since many travelers order a little somehting and then sit for hours surfing.
I can go without eating all day and normally do so when traveling by myself. If I'm with my wife on vacation, we'd like to get a little something while in transit. I'd happily drop some dollars on drinks and nibbles, but we often can't find a table without being rude.
We flew home from an airport in December on an A330. The gate seating would have been adequate for an ATR.
I did shop the duty free and got four bottles of spirits at a good price.
Three of these were bought as gifts for others.

Hipennine
31st Mar 2014, 08:23
At NCL, a vast acreage has been given over to the exclusive use of the Oyster bar (or whatever it's called). I have never seen anybody using it.

Anybody have an idea on the legal enforceabilities of using any of these reserved areas ?

joy ride
31st Mar 2014, 08:28
I think DFW is not bad for a modern airport, it's basically linear with shops and eateries on one side of the corridor and seating areas on the other. The entire seating side is glazed so you can watch all the airport activity while you wait. It is an "airport with shops" rather than a "Shopping Mall with planes".

I still wish modern airports would let me sit outside though!

ExXB
31st Mar 2014, 12:13
I still wish modern airports would let me sit outside though!

What? With all the nicotine addicts? No thanks …

joy ride
31st Mar 2014, 13:02
Damn, I forgot about the smokers, an airtight room for the lot of them!
As a boy I used to love the terrace/balcony cafe at LONDON Aiport (now LHR!) and the one at Carrasco, Montevideo. That is the proper place to wait at an airport...all senses fully stimulated!

PAXboy
1st Apr 2014, 04:16
Last December, in T2 at MUC, they had a smoker's room, airside. Enclosed, with some suitably powerful air circulation system (this was Germany!) seemed a good idea. I also recall seeing one at Spanish airport but can't remember which.

Xenophon
5th Apr 2014, 19:08
OP : there is ,available in all airports , a third type of seating which I have used often - it's called the floor.:E

baselb
8th Apr 2014, 15:49
At least the seats in the OP look reasonably comfortable. I remember having a six hour wait in Paris with similar chairs, but made entirely of metal. Every time anyone sat or stood, the whole row jolted, making it impossible to even nap sitting up. :{

I was Mr Grumpy Crocodile that day...

PAXboy
8th Apr 2014, 23:13
Snapping at everyone were you, baselb? Have not heard the term but noted for future use.

Kinda thread drift ...
Today I took the train, London Kings Cross to Durham for a two day conference. I had not been through the station since it's refurbishment. I can report that it is a 'son-of-modern-airports'.



Seating = all the same problems. I squatted on a low level barrier set to guide trolleys. It was uncomfortable and I then spent half an hour standing. [THAT's on thread :p but the rest isn't :E]



Info Displays = much better. They have the large scale vertical displays that are easily read from 50 feet+ away.
Info delivery = same problem. Notifications of which gate/platform was to be used, was only given about 15 minutes before departure, so Pax had to hang around in the main areas, then rush.
On board = good. Seat was as requested - forward facing with full table. And a power socket at each row on both sides of the carriage. Very good as I could power both PC and SatNav (Like a seat-back moving map display, so that's kinda on topic).
The seat next to me was booked for the same journey as myself but the person did not show. My guess is that they did not know that each advance booking also books a seat. So it was more comfortable.



At the snack bar, I was VERY pleased to see that the tea was the same brand as I have at home (Yorkshire) and each bag sealed in it's own sachet. The catering staff carefully opened the sachet and ... used her fingers to take the bag out of the sachet and place it in the mug. Oh dear.
The loos? As bad as I remember them.
Arrived on time.
Was probably ripped off by the taxi driver, will check up t'row.

Dubaian
9th Apr 2014, 07:16
About the only good thing I can say about the current Doha Airport is that a high proportion of the seats in Departures have a really nice view of the main runway and an adjacent taxiway. So few places actually let PAX look at planes these days.

But I bet the new DIA, if and when it ever opens, will be modern style totally enclosed with no windows worthy of the name.

joy ride
11th Apr 2014, 09:46
When things go wrong:

BBC News - Gatwick Airport Christmas Eve chaos a 'wake-up call' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-26981196)