US Pilot shortage: CTC to open a new training center in the USA

[wind check]

Global airline pilot training company CTC Aviation to open new Crew Training Centre in North America - CTC Aviation (http://www.ctcaviation.com/news/article/uk_headquartered_ctc_aviation_a_world_leading_airline_pilot_ training_compan)

CTC has destroyed our industry in europe and will now do the same in the USA.

[RexBanner]

I think the 1500 hour rule would destroy any hopes they had of replicating what they've done in Europe though. As far as I can see from the article it is just going to be a new training facility for the existing trainees from Europe etc, not an attempt to provide training for US citizens.

Interesting that they say they are investing $7 Million in the facilities. As far as I know the facilities there are all owned by Lufthansa. The claim that this will result in an ability to train upto 200 pilots a year there is also ambiguous since that is the number that Oxford regularly sent there.

Gotta love the quote: Rob Clarke, Group CEO of CTC Aviation said “The airline industry has been predicting an impending pilot shortage for some time now"

Yeah, for about 40 years now I think..

[wind check]

CTC wants the FAA to allow the MPL licence as an alternate to the 1500 hrs rule. :ugh:

In this case they will provide hundreds and hundreds of 20 years old cadets to the US feeder airlines and guess what? the shortage issue will be solved out straight away.

Canada has already adopted this ******* MPL licence. :bored:

[monviso]

CTC has destroyed our industry in europe and will now do the same in the USA.


You are absolutely right! They finished to get any potential amount of money from the european market and now they will move to U.S.A. where there is still a potential to get money and make a business into aviation field.

Gotta love the quote: Rob Clarke, Group CEO of CTC Aviation said “The airline industry has been predicting an impending pilot shortage for some time now"

Yeah, for about 40 years now I think..

Ihihih, it is a mantra. They continue to say it over and over again because it actually works.

[ChickenHouse]

It will be interesting to see the next future in aviation. To get a pilot license has been quite an expensive education and we are talking pilot shortage for quite some long years. My feeling, this is just a shortage of cheap pilots, not pilots at all. There are maybe thousands of unemployed right now on Europe, but they won't work for the salary the typical pax is financing with his 50 bucks round-the-world all inclusive habit.

So, two choices: costs for the ticket has to go up or pilots salary go down. From experience of the last couple of years, option one is unlikely. Consequently they have to find a way to make pilot production cheaper. One way is for asian countries to cash in their cost of living advantage and produce hundreds of, maybe even government paid, pilots. By this you could take over the whole industry. If someone like Al Quaeeda is smart, they could do the same ... Do we want such and is there an alternative?

[MCDU2]

I think norwegian is already some ways along in developing a cheap pilot model. Its called a Thai contract, under Singapore labour laws, by a norwegian operator flying US manufactured aircraft on an Irish AOC across the Atlantic.

Seem to have no problem attracting all the desperate and dateless to join the party.

[sidestickbob]

I am a Captain with a major UK carrier and have been flying for almost twenty years. Like everyone else, during the last ten years or so, I have witnessed the demise of our profession thanks to airlines like easyjet and Ryanair and the like. Salaries and T's&C's have never been so poor and many pilots are now having to pay for their own uniforms and training as well as interviews and assessments to get the job in the first place. The "lucky" ones who get hired are then worked to death flying 900+ hours a year.

I fly regularly with First Officers who have spent somewhere between £75K and £110K to get to the RHS in an airline. Most can't afford to buy houses or luxury items because of their flying training debts. I admire their efforts and dedication but I cannot understand why anyone would want to become an Airline Pilot now.

My advice to any aspiring aviator would be to get a PPL, enjoy flying on a Sunday morning and put the rest of the money towards a mortgage on a property! I wish I didn't feel like this but I'm afraid its the way things are.

[West Coast]

The last paragraph is almost word for word what I tell people when they ask me about a career in Aviation.

[niss]

Exactly my words

[StressFree]

Sidestickbob,

Well said sir! Spot on.......:D

[Three Lions]

As far as I can see the slightly better job of ryr and ezy would be ezy and the starting pay there is £38K, as I understand it from a certain rumour network forum.

I guess if you are the skygod ace of the CTC intake then it is possible to achieve command in 5 years? And the money would improve to such an extent that you can look to start servicing the debt AND buy a house etc etc - I guess upto that point it really has to be one or the other. I simply cannot understand how someone can sleep on a night carrying that sort of debt/return around

The question is... are the Americans going to accept a business model that puts the employee of such a high risk occupation in such an incredibly precarious position?

Hopefully the body of existing pilots in the US and those working their way into the better airlines see what is coming before it is too late. The damage done to the industry in the UK and Europe by the two big locos is clear to see.

It would be nice to think the US model was adopted here rather than the CTC model implemented over the pond. But as it is clear to see money talks

[Cliff Secord]

Hi Three Lions. I don't think the FAA would put up with this instant coffee cadet cr&p. No more short cutting it over there with the 1500 hr rule. As said I cant see them trying the same model; it looks like its a case of them opening a school. Hopefully the guys in the USA will vote with 2 fingers, jump on a plane to Crawley then grab a taxi down to SRG to ask what the hell kind of dog and pony show the CAA are running here. Then I hear pigs have received CofAs.

[wind check]

Canada?s Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) - Transport Canada (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/opssvs/general-mpl-menu1862.htm)

Canada is starting to welcome MPL licence, which in other words is a scheme to get cheap cadets with no experience. (No experience= cheap employee).

The US FAA is already under a tremendous pressure from ALL the feeder/regional US airlines due to possible pilot shortage in the near future and there are now 3 solutions to keep their business on:

-To increase pilots salaries.... No way
-To cancel the 1500 hours rule... I really doubt
-To approuve the MPL licence program that allows type rated cadets in the cockpits...and that is very likely to happen.

CTC is aiming to grab this highly lucrative market and this is the right time for them to get set up in the USA.:ouch:

[RexBanner]

Last time I checked Canada and the United States of America were two separate countries? Hell they even went to war in South Park Bigger, Longer, Uncut.

I very much doubt the US Authorities are going to introduce legislation that is easily circumvented by a technicality on a licence issue. Keep the hysteria in check on this one please? It's a flight school for existing students, nothing more nothing less.

[The African Dude]

I guess if you are the skygod ace of the CTC intake then it is possible to achieve command in 5 years?
The command process at easyJet is independent of this. Of course you have to reach a certain standard, but entering the process relies on having a certain amount of relevant experience along with the requisite performance history. I think that the vast majority of people have this performance history.

Anyway, without too much thread drift: can somebody explain what has happened in the US with this CTC "opening"? I tried to find out from their press releases et. al. but it was all waffle and no actual information on what was new, what was there before, who else uses the airport etc. etc.

[Iver]

The big flight schools at aeronautical universities in the States have been reducing their fleets - nobody wants to pay 150K+ for a degree and a job that starts at 30K. It is simple maths. Plus, I read that the US military is being cut drastically by Obama and that will likely reduce flight time among the military aviators in the States. The airlines will get fewer good candidates over time.


Let's hope salaries rise in the US and Europe as a result of the growing demand/supply imbalance...

[wind check]

Last time I checked Canada and the United States of America were two separate countries? Hell they even went to war in South Park Bigger, Longer, Uncut.

Yep but the aviation spirit is very similar in both countries. Now if cadets schemes are arriving in canada, they will surely arrive in the USA.

CTC is already very well equiped with great facilities in the UK and new zeland, if they come to the USA, it's not (only) for the local cheesburgers!!!

[Cliff Secord]

If they did create some sort of MPL short cut then it would fly in the face of everything they have just justified to congress and the industry with the airline safety act. Whatever is said, one thing I have always admired is North America's attitude to aviation. Sometimes the old fashioned works. I hope they stick with it and make it stick.

[candler]

I seriously doubt that the FAA are watching what Transport Canada does for guidance on how to issue it's pilot certificates.

[lifeafteraviation]

very much doubt the US Authorities are going to introduce legislation that is easily circumvented by a technicality on a licence issue.

Are you kidding? That's pretty much the purpose of Congress these days...to create legislation that allows businesses to circumvent the laws set in place for the common people.

@$$es like Bryan Bedford and his colleagues sit down and plan these types of things. They would rather spend a hundred million dollars on ways to keep pilot salaries low than to just use that money to fire qualified pilots.

nobody wants to pay 150K+ for a degree and a job that starts at 30K.
haha....yeah...they do....good marketing and silly dreams.

I read that the US military is being cut drastically by Obama and that will likely reduce flight time among the military aviators in the States

One thing about the US is no one will drastically cut the military...no matter who is president (he doesn't have that power anyway). You will only hear banter from both sides about it but the reality is military funding just gets shifted from one area to another depending on which corrupt politicians get elected and who their wealthy friends are in the defense industry or where bases are located.

The military flying is being cut back because it's shifting heavily to UAVs and most US military pilots these days never actually log any flight time.

I think the real lesson here is to get out of the airline industry and get into the pilot training industry!! :ok:

[27/09]

Gotta love the quote: Rob Clarke, Group CEO of CTC Aviation said “The airline industry has been predicting an impending pilot shortage for some time now"

About the only thing that CTC is good at is "spinning", and in this case it's not done in an aircraft.

[angelorange]

Some folk on here have got the wrong end of the stick. CTC are not in the business of training for the FAA ATP. The only benefit of their "European" flight school is it might give a few jobs to US FAA rated flying instructors who are working towards their 1500h.

That rule is now in force and congress made it mandatory with the ruling passed in 2013.

Not even CTC have deep enough pockets to change US Law.

The MPL requires 70 to 100 h of actual flight and its much cheaper to do that in sunny western desert USA than EU. Another blow to EU GA.

Canada are reticent on MPL but happy for foreigners to train at Canadian schools for ICAO MPL. Their own carriers demand much higher flying hours and greater evidence of airmanship to fly in Canada.

In the USA, there are military cutbacks but many mil aviators are being retained so expect more civi pilots in cockpits. It used to be 70% mil 30%civi. But the ratio is now reversed.

[RexBanner]

Angelorange I pointed this out in the very first reply to the thread and then again a few posts later. People are too whipped up in the hysteria to allow it to register or listen to it.