All Pumas to NI

[phase slag]

I heard today from a reliable source that all RAF Pumas will be moving to Northern Ireland by Apr 03. OCF to remain at Benson with a small ops flt until mid 04.

Merlins will assume the role currently held by 33 Sqn.

[Pub User]

"the role currently held by 33 sqn"

What role would that be then? Whatever it is, I doubt a Merlin could do it.

[Yozzer]

....and give Aldergrove all the morale problems that Ice Stn Kilo already has? I dont thing so, though I know it has been considered and previously discounted. I smell wind up bait here.

Neither Mess could cope, the Os Mess is very very overstocked hence 5* porta cabins being used, and although the real estate for a Sqn is available, it wont be too log before jointery brings our poor cousins over from their little holes.

One way of getting a que for volunteers to the Merlin OCU though:rolleyes:

[Green Bottle]

Not a Merlin pilot, but I think the Merlin will be better than the Puma in any role it takes off it. It will take some time to iron out snags, as with any new ac into service but it will dwarf the puma in capability.

The only snag is who is going to carry the CH47's strops if all the Pumas are in NI!! ;)

[Percycat]

Merlins to assume the role of the 33 Sqn Puma before Apr 03! What is that role - not being able to carry a pinky!

I know that in the relative scheme of things the death banana brethren banter the plastic pusuit ship drivers about it's minimal capability, but at least they recognise that it has an operational capability!

The 'operational' Merlins will be lucky to assume the role of a screaming chicken leg by Apr 03!

Merlins are always good conversation starters at airshows - 'Why didn't we buy more Chinooks instead!'


Percy (when is the next Merlin OCU slot?)

[Talking Radalt]

I suppose a Merlin would be able to collect all our strops at once though? And they're still good for "pointless uppy-downy undercarriage" demos
:p

[ChristopherRobin]

Green Bottle says that the Merlin will be better than the Puma in any role it takes off it - Well yes, except of course in NI where the Merlin is unlikely to fit into the majority of bases that the Puma can and will have to land outside like the chinook currently does.

[TURNBULL]

An interesting rumour, but the practicalities of it would surely mean a fundamental change to the rules regarding tour lengths in the Province. As there would be nowhere for aircrew to go after their NI tour, save for the OCF or small ops flt, the entire Puma aircrew establishment would need to a) be transferred to another type and b) replaced with new crews every 2 years or so. Just do the maths, the OCF would have to be huge to support such an operation.

[Green Bottle]

Well that confirms it then, Merlin can't go to NI so must be 33 Sqn going there!:cool:

[zerospeed]

Just a small point but do we actually need another sqn of pumas in NI? Isn't the point that they are now reducing the amount of hours needed in province. Sure NI could do with another cab or two, but not a whole sqn. As for freak sqn taking on 33's role, is that once they've got a cab cleared for something/anything useful and some less ugly people to boot! :p

[PlasticCabDriver]

You can't call 28 (Airshow Circuit) Sqn freaks, they might get upset!

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Plastique et al,

Jealous of the new toy down the road or bitter over the fact that you're the new wessex destined to while the rest of your years away in the emerald toilet. At least plastic doesn't corrode in the rain.

Anyway I hear that its just worth doing that merlin thing to do the overseas trainer - brandy sour anyone?:eek:

[[email protected]]

Maybe it's a cunningly crafted plan to force procurement issues - at the present rate of attrition of Puma airframes in NI it wont take the pig drivers long to trash them all. Once all the cabs are gone then the powers that be can either a. withdraw all RAF assets and leave NI to the AAC or b. buy a proper SH helicopter that goes fast, lifts lots and was designed for the job.
The chinooks are busy elsewhere, the Merlins are too big and the SKs are all knackered. FBS contract for SH ops using 412 anyone???

[teeteringhead]

412 would certainly make a good SH, but there are problems in using COMR (contractor-owned-military-registered) aircraft for anything more warlike than Strawberry or Cyprus. Current COMR contracts insist on aircraft being returned at end of contract in same state, so "military" type mods (weapons, DAS) could prove a problem - and the CAA would have to approve also. That all mjight put it in the "too difficult" category.

Another thought on more aircraft in NI. They would not necessarily be for NI Ops only - Aldergrove could become the "Northern SH Base" we have needed for some time. Because most maps don't put NI and the mainland on the same sheet, many don't realise how close it is to many operating areas in the north of England. Otterburn and Spade are closer to Ald than Odiz or Benz, as is anywhere north of Catterick.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Lizzie]

Merlin, aka EH 101....

Am I right in thinking that the girl in the typing pool at European Helicopter Industries tapped the wrong key? I thought it was to be called the EHI 01

Did we buy a spelling mistake? It would explain a lot......!!

[jayteeto]

Putting the wheels up and down relieves the boredom of flying in a goldfish bowl and :cool: IT LOOKS GOOD :cool: The Puma motto:You don't have to be good, just look it. Roll those sleeves up and pass me another scarf luv!!

[bigley]

I've got an idea of a role for the Merlin but not sure if it is big enough- it could carry the egos of the Puma mates!:)

It looks good??? Come on Jay I thought better of you!!!

[Gainesy]

Lizzie,
Correct. Another typo was the SR-71 announced by Pres Johnson, should have been RS-71.
Prob apocryphal but the car called Starion (Toyota?) should have been Stallion but the Japanese Exec pronounced it so and the minions could not let him lose face.

[Muff Coupling]

TeetHead,

A few thoughts;

I would have thought COMR is not that irksome if you get the contract right first off, especially if the Operator is the CAA Type Licenced Eng Authority, this can help smooth mil type mods ( guns, DAS et al) with the CAA. If the type, say 212 or 412 has a mil desiganted equiv..e.g. UH1N, mods could be incorporated through the design authority and the aircraft returned to the civil register with minor hassle. The amount of dosh required to re-civilianise said machine can be agreed by operator and MOD in the initial contract. The opo will of course sting you £££s if you want to add bits later!

On operations (ie NI), the market worth of the airframe, on a sliding depreciating scale, say monthly, is agreed with the MOD and should it deploy to war and get trashed during the term of the contract, MOD coughs up said wadge. From a mate in DHSA I believe this is how the AAC got their COMR 212s to East Timor etc, etc from Brunei.

As for thoughts on 412 to NI...got to be the way ahead. Wessi now in medium pres, Puma passed its sell by date years ago-cracks all over, next most expensive machine to operate next to the wokka, Merlin waiting for MARs and to big for most SF bases
A bit of a capability gap emerging I would say.

Wait for SABR? That could end up somewhere bewteen Chinny
and Merlin...still to big!

412 just about right size, speed, capability, in use type in Cyprus, SARTU, Shawbury. If NIPF come on board to offset costs for a couple and the Army purchase extra to offset BLUH in the
battlefield support role..could be a runner! Indeed, the AAC could take over our setup in the emerald toilet..presto, back to Benson, Odiham and Aiya napa!!! Get those Bell Textron shares brought NOW :eek:

[Jackonicko]

There's a hangar load of very rugged and reliable, robust SH helos in a hangar at Shawbury......

Westland Dorsets, I think they're called.....

[Dunhovrin]

And let us not forget the 5 (6?) ex- South African Pumas. Word on the street is they're heading out to Aldergrove. And as usual the RAF has to de-spec them to meet it's own standards.

I don't think the use of Aldergrove as SH North will work. It's been tried before and the faff of taking the armoured seats out and in to cross the North Channel would max out the engineers. Plus HQNI always think any assets in-province are theirs and will generate more Dungannon standbys for the boys.

Jayteeto. You can have my scarf mate if I have your floppy Tiger bow-tie....

[bigley]

Dungannon? Join the nineties grandad!!!!

[Dunhovrin]

Sorry, I meant St Angelo.

------------------------------
G100 747 thru the overhead G100

[Jackonicko]

Dunhovrin,

Which ex SAAF Pumas? News to me!

And will they take as long to come on board as that ex-Argie aircraft of 33's did?

[Pub User]

DH

St Angelo is also no more.

In fact, nearly everywhere is closed; if it wasn't for some career-builders in HQNI the whole f***ing place might have closed by now.

[teeteringhead]

Yes, it's the base closure bit that would make the SH North plot work. HQNI (still a 3* and a TLB for some reason) must relinquish control of things just "because they are there". GOCNI didn't control QUAS (!), more significantly, he didn't control (in earlier times) the Shacks at BK or Ulster Radar at Bishops Court.

Hence small (if any) NI Ops Puma Flight, majority of sqn(s?) aircraft without armoured seats or other warlike mods, so making mainland ops easier. Maybe the next Cdr JHC would be the man to "make it so".

Of course, by then, the Peace Process will have worked, you'll be able to get bladdered in the Crown wearing Tiger bow-ties, the border will be open so you can get to France on one ferry instead of two, and the whole place will be known affectionately as the "Emerald extremely well-appointed en-suite facilities".

Excuse me, there's a formation of pigs just lined up on the runway; I must away and watch them depart ....................

[Dunhovrin]

Jacko,

I got told off for naming names recently so this is all thru 4th parties (you aint seen me, right?). But the gen is 6 (or maybe 4) ex-SAAF Pumas have been bought by the MoD thru a third-party broker who happens to be an ex-Puma (RAF) boss. Apparently they don't have Merkela (spelling?) engines though whether they once did is a moot point. Story is they're pretty sh@gged so they should fit right into the servicing programme.

And Pub User - I think you'll find Eniskillen Intl is still going....Yes I know the portacabin city east side is gorn.

[Yozzer]

Dunhovrin said:

And Pub User - I think you'll find Eniskillen Intl is still going....Yes I know the portacabin city east side is gorn.

Wrong, St Angelo is closed completely. A decision worthy of the military I know, but in this case a civilian airport which had loads of potential in a tourist centre has been closed lock stock and 2 smoking.....

Which means that were a Puma a fixed wing it would be fuel priority land before take off!

YOZZER

[Avoiding Action]

Just to add my pennyworth to this thread - which is rapidly going tangential - the local council has only closed St Angelo (Enniskillen Intl) as a licensed airfield - still open if you don't need the piece of paper, no sig of turning it into a karting track!. The council ( obviously not in step with the rest of the local councils in the UK ) said that, while it's not economically viable at the moment, it can see a future for it in about 10 yrs time. Hence the decision to keep it under care and maintainance but stop shelling out cash for the licence and facilities needed for this magic bit of paper. Still, the way things are going it won't be our problem in 10 yrs, they'll be applying to the Dail in Dublin for permission to open the field again.........:rolleyes:

[canberra]

if it is correct that weve bought 5 or 6 ex saaf pumas why not bin the 412s at akrotiri and replace the wessex(how can the wessex be replaced, its like replacing canberras and dakotas, the only replacement is a wessex) with these aircraft? you could leave these aircraft out there. if anyone from mod is reading this can i have a gems form please!