Evacuation Challenges...

[krishna chettri]

Cabin Attendants are taught as well as trained practically on the evacuation techniques. However in a real scenario, it is not always possible to achieve all passengers leaving the plane without their handbaggages in spite of the clear instructions to leave it behind.Moreover, it depends a lot on the type, time and nature of evacuation...

Keeping 90 seconds time frame as a target to evacuate, I need your feedback as to what are your views on managing all passengers evacuating with their bags? To stop evacuees to leave their bags behind is possible but don't you all think it would increase the time to evacuate?
What are your inputs based on your training and its understanding?

[Dufo]

The main priority is to get everyone out, no time for doing the check-and-go. 90 seconds rule has to be met for certification, in real life it's from 20 to.. forever.

One solution would be to electronically lock overhead bins as soon as the evacuation is ordered.

[krishna chettri]

Thank you so much Dufo...
What a brilliant idea....

[Tray Surfer]

Whilst it annoys me when I see the pictures of people evacuating with the their hand baggage, I do understand why this happens.

Of course, as cabin crew, we know what we are doing and we go through the preparation day after day after day, and every year go through our recurrent training etc… But the passengers do not. They don't think about these sorts of things and being as some will fly once a year, maybe a few more, it is to be expected.

In our training, we are told that, if by the time they get to the door, they have their hand baggage, there is nothing you can do. Because firstly, it will waste time and as already pointed out, you need to get them out. Secondly, and this can be quite dependant on type of aircraft, you have no where to put these bags if you take them off someone. For example, at the front of the narrow body Airbus family, you would have no where to throw the bags. However, at D1 on a 744, you have all of A zone to fling the bags.

However, saying all of that, as I mentioned, if they turn up at the door with their bags, too late. Shove them out the door.

[VinRouge]

Out of interest, how does it work in the commercial market wrt evacuation duties? Do all the cabin attendants stay on until it's unsafe to do so, or the aircraft is evacuated, or are some sent outside to start a head count?

Do the front end look after themselves or do they assist?

As a captain on a mil aircraft, it's assumed One looks after ones self, however, fo real, I think (and brief) that I would go down t'back to assist where possible, fire fight and or do a final sweep of the jet?

Personally, as pax, I'd leave my bag on a burning jet. i am guessing airline insurance would cover a new kindle, laptop and ipad!

[TheChitterneFlyer]

One thing is for sure... if I'm one of the crew I'm, most certainly, NOT leaving my Passport and Flight Crew licence behind; which is why I used to keep those documents in my inside pocket of my jacket. Irrespective of whatever country I might be in I wouldn't want to be reliant upon a Consulate service to help me get out of that country. Old habits die hard... if I'm a passenger, my Passport will be close to hand; it WILL go with me out of the door!

Imagine the faff of trying to get a replacement licence when you eventually return to your home Port? Also, if you're stranded in 'Bongo Bongo Land' without a Passport... no, I don't even want to contemplate that horror!

TCF

[VinRouge]

Chittern, do airline pilots not have 2 passports issued?

How does your company deal with multiple visa issues if you only have one passport?

[TheChitterneFlyer]

I'm retired! Besides which, why trust fate, and the inconvenience, of not having one's Passport to hand. Yes, I used to have two Passports, but not every fleet had the requirement to have two of them. You're now being pedantic!

[VinRouge]

Sorry Chit, didnt mean it to sound like that! It was a genuine qn. As one who is about to complete the mil-civvie path, I was just curious, as I was unsure if the multiple visas thing was handled differently from how the military handle it.

[Tray Surfer]

In regard to the Visa question… I can't speak for anyone else apart from BA, but at BA, as a rule, we only have one passport, be it flight or cabin crew.

We only have one requirement for a Visa, which is the good old US of A. So, when we attend out Visa appointment at the US Embassy, they take our passport off us that day, and it is usually returned to the concerned person within 3-5 working days. Over that period, no flying can, obviously take place.

When it comes to passport renewal, BA have an agreement with the Passport Agency in the UK so that they will issue us a new passport without us having to send in our current passport which is approaching expiry.

So, as we don't have a requirement for more than one Visa, we have it quite easy in terms of documentation. If someone personally choses to use more than one passport, be it of differing nationality of length of validity, then the passport which has the Visa held in it must be used for entry to the USA on work trips.

If that passport expires before the end validity date of the Visa, then the expired passport is retained and presented with the new valid passport for entry.

In regard to the rest of your questions… In an ideal world, we would evacuate our area, and assist where possible. Of course, our first aim is to empty the aircraft in under 90 seconds. We use commands to ensure we draw evacuees to exits that are not being used or away from ones which are being over-used etc. where possible. We also do the opposite and "guard and re-direct" when appropriate to not use "our" exit. All, of course, is dependant on conditions within the cabin. There is a elemental degree of "looking after ourselves" in regard to our own life, and if conditions become a threat to our lives, then we will leave the aircraft before any remaining passengers, who may unfortunately be unable to make it out before a change in cabin conditions. There are several well documented cases of cabin crew sacrificing their own life to assist others, and not making it out.

This fine lady was one of the earlier ladies to do so:

Barbara Jane Harrison (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Jane_Harrison)

More on the incident:

BOAC Flight 712 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOAC_Flight_712)

All of what is said is in an ideal, classroom/mock-up based situation, however, who knows how any of us will react when faced with the real thing.

[VinRouge]

Thanks tray, a very useful appraisal of how it would work with a larger capacity aircraft to the one I currently fly. Is there any protocol for the captain/fo/ resting crew members or is it assumed they will 'stay out the way'?

[Tray Surfer]

If there were to be an incident during flight, such as a toilet fire or something, then for us, it is the cabin crew who will deal with it. No flight crew are involved. If there is one on rest, if they wish to involve them self, then they will return to the flight deck to be involved.

In regards to evacuation or an incident on the ground, again, a third flight crew member would not really be involved in any official way. If you take a planned emergency landing, or unplanned for that matter, by the time we have either begun an evacuation in "clearly catastrophic situations", or have been commanded to commence an evacuation by the flight crew, we will either be nearly finished or quite a way into our 90 seconds evacuation by the time the flight crew have shut down the aircraft and area leaving the flight deck etc. Of course, once again, this is all dependant on the situation and how long the flight crew are able to stay in the flight deck before they must get out them self etc. However, saying that, once on the ground and out of the aircraft, I would expect that the flight crew would then be involved in managing the passengers on the ground in any interim period till enough emergency services capacity were at the scene to take over the management of the passengers once off the aircraft.

As we are reminded during our training, the first wave of emergency response to an incident on an airport, will be there to tackle the fire/other immediate situation, and the management of the passengers and crew will be done once the immediate threat of fuel fire/explosion has been dealt with or is suitably under control, and ultimately, it would be up to us to manage the passengers. Of course, as has been seen in multiple incidents with the increased use of camera phones and the likes, that this rarely happens as people will scatter over a wide area once off the aircraft, and to be frank, if we were taking the full amount of time to evacuate the aircraft, we may not be on the ground with them till a full 90 seconds after it started, and by that time, they are not going to be within an area to listen to our instructions, nor take any notice.

[VinRouge]

Again tray, a very useful perspective. Thanks again.

[Tray Surfer]

No worries. Any time. :)

[flyinspanner]

TCF

(And others)

Scan your passport and documents and email a copy to yourself. You then have access to it anywhere in the world.

As for bongo bongo comment :=