PDA

View Full Version : Tony Benn


Krystal n chips
14th Mar 2014, 08:54
In an age of mediocre blandness, key selection criteria for just about every current and aspiring politician, one who could truly be described as charismatic and principled .

We await the inevitable "champagne socialist" derision therefore by those whose myopia is in the advanced stages.

Like Bob Crow, another who contributed significantly to the benefit of the UK overall.

BBC News - Labour stalwart Tony Benn dies at 88 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26573929)

Alas, for those on the right, this news when allied to the above mentioned will induce the condition known as frothing fatigue,

treadigraph
14th Mar 2014, 09:00
Couldn't abide his politics but I greatly admired the gentleman he was.

tony draper
14th Mar 2014, 09:04
Remember if it weren't for Tony you would not have had Concorde,a giant compared to the colourless pipsqueaks we have now.
:)

Capetonian
14th Mar 2014, 09:09
A decent and colourful chap, considering that he was a leftie.

Haraka
14th Mar 2014, 09:25
Watched him debate with Enoch Powell one evening on the box. Two intellectual gentlemen of opposite views who spoke with mutual respect, courtesy and consideration.
But then, that was 30 or so years ago............

Metro man
14th Mar 2014, 09:55
I'm sure British industry will miss him greatly.:rolleyes:

gunbus
14th Mar 2014, 09:58
Like Bob Crow, another who contributed significantly to the benefit of the UK overall.

True but as does any lefty, contributed to it's downfall

tony draper
14th Mar 2014, 10:08
Will be sickening to see all his contemporaries who hated him and the new lot of shite who know they will never measure up to him queue up to sing his praises,phoney bastards.
The media weren't very fond of him either,not when he plonked down his wee tape recorder switched it on and told them not to try editing anythings he said to fit their agenda.
:)

Andy_S
14th Mar 2014, 10:50
In an age of mediocre blandness, key selection criteria for just about every current and aspiring politician, one who could truly be described as charismatic and principled.

One wonders if you were similarly generous when MHT passed away?

It fascinates me how someone with Tony Bennís radical views managed to become something of a national treasure. Perhaps it says something about the moral disintegration of the Labour Party during the Blair / Brown years that he started to seem like a decent bloke?

I canít say I agreed with his views, although I appreciated the way he stood up for parliament at a time when Blair was attempting to bypass the place and accrue presidential powers. As you say, whatever his views a man of principle, and there are too few of those left on either side.

cavortingcheetah
14th Mar 2014, 11:52
One of Benn's greatest attributes was the consistency of his lack of principles.
Another capability he possessed was his wealth. The man was fortunate enough to be able to afford such a rampant socialism that even Lenin might have stood in awe of him.

BillHicksRules
14th Mar 2014, 11:52
Another great passes on.

RIP Viscount Stansgate

pvmw
14th Mar 2014, 12:12
One of Benn's greatest attributes was the consistency of his lack of principles.
Another capability he possessed was his wealth. The man was fortunate enough to be able to afford such a rampant socialism that even Lenin might have stood in awe of him

Indeed. As a "Socialist", and therefore allegedly against the principle of inherited wealth, it didn't stop him keeping a firm hand on Stansgate Abbey and all the loot. Just another socialist hypocrite in my book.

Private jet
14th Mar 2014, 12:16
Principled? Really?
He only started to deride the British political establishment and system after he had been passed over, and it was no longer of any use to him.

goudie
14th Mar 2014, 13:29
His avuncular personality could be beguiling enough, to believe he was a man of the people, but his real attitude to joe public is illustrated below.

Benn under fire over 'private' patch of Essex - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3324755/Benn-under-fire-over-private-patch-of-Essex.html)

ex_matelot
14th Mar 2014, 14:09
just who the **** is killing all our communists? !


Posted from Pprune.org App for Android

Shaggy Sheep Driver
14th Mar 2014, 15:37
Like Bob Crow, another who contributed significantly to the benefit of the UK overall.

You do him no favors by lumping him in with the odious Crow, whose contribution to UK was entirely negative as many on here have already pointed out in the Crow thread.

Benn was undoubtedly a Concorde supporter (after all, many of his constituents relied on it for their jobs). But I don't see how it's down to him that we had that magnificent aeroplane for almost 3 decades of superb service. That's more down to Julian Amery's 'locking in' clause in the contract with the French, that Wilson would love to have broken.

Quite negative and destructive, these lefties. ;)

er340790
14th Mar 2014, 15:41
Watched him debate with Enoch Powell one evening on the box. Two intellectual gentlemen of opposite views who spoke with mutual respect, courtesy and consideration.

Was also just thinking how far apart those two were politically, yet so close in character... "I've thought long and hard about it..... this is what I think..... you'll have to prove me wrong" approach.

Never liked him... but I'll miss him. :(

Fareastdriver
14th Mar 2014, 16:18
Going back to the referendem to remain in th EEC in 1975. Tony Benn was adamant that the UK should pull out in defiance of Harold Wilson's government's policy and he campaigned actively against that policy.

I, like so many others, voted to stay in the EEC for no other reason than Benn was against it.

vulcanised
14th Mar 2014, 16:26
My main memory of Antony Wedgewood Benn (as he was then) was his jamming of the signal from Radio Caroline when he was Postmaster-General.

All the lefty hypocrites who are saying he was so great should reveal why he didn't achieve high office.

DCS99
14th Mar 2014, 16:53
He could have cancelled Concorde but didn't.
I for one am personally grateful for that.

RIP Tony Benn
End of an era

AtomKraft
14th Mar 2014, 16:58
Please God


Let me leave this Country.......On Sunday, at 1305.


*******, ******* shithole that it is.

piesupper
14th Mar 2014, 17:05
Tony Benn was primarily responsible for burying the McCrone Report
about the true worth of North Sea Oil.
The UK Establishment continues that lie to this very day.
http://http://www.oilofscotland.org/mccronereport.pdf

Their determination to conceal the truth and smother any debate has spread into civil society, yea even unto the hallowed halls of PPrune - see independence thread

dazdaz1
14th Mar 2014, 17:09
Vulcanised....."My main memory of Antony Wedgewood Benn (as he was then) was his jamming of the signal from Radio Caroline when he was Postmaster-General."

True, and you know why? The pirate station was not paying royalties to artist music that was played.

Shaggy Sheep Driver
14th Mar 2014, 17:12
He could have cancelled Concorde but didn't.
I for one am personally grateful for that.

No he couldn't, not without the agreement of the French. Didn't you read my earlier post in this thread?:rolleyes:

Sleeve Wing
14th Mar 2014, 17:13
CAA -125, Stansted to Teesside………On board, change from smart city suit into slightly torn, soiled anorak, disembark with own chipped enamel mug and flat cap to join in the Durham Miners Gala c. 1970 ?

Viscount Stansgate, then Sir Anthony Wedgewood Benn, then must now be known as Tony Benn ?

>>> One of Benn's greatest attributes was the consistency of his lack of principles.
Another capability he possessed was his wealth. The man was fortunate enough to be able to afford such a rampant socialism that even Lenin might have stood in awe of him.<<<

Yes, hypocrite of the first order. :mad:

Krystal n chips
14th Mar 2014, 18:38
Some pragmatic reflection.

Tony Benn, veteran Labour politician, dies aged 88 | Politics | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/14/tony-benn-dies-aged-88-labour-politiican)

vulcanised
14th Mar 2014, 18:50
Heard Shirley Williams sounding quite desperate to say nice things in her less than enthusiastic eulogy on R4 5pm news.

Shirley shome mishtake? :}

Shaggy Sheep Driver
14th Mar 2014, 18:54
Yes, Shirley Williams has indeed just been reflecting about him on R4:

His political life never really changed anything. He was always too extreme to be taken seriously. Bit of a dreamer. She stopped short of calling him an out of touch impractical left wing loonie, but only just!

cavortingcheetah
14th Mar 2014, 19:29
Peter Hain speaks well of him. That is sufficient condemnation.

Fox3WheresMyBanana
14th Mar 2014, 19:42
A champion of the common man. Of course, when the oiks wanted to walk along the seashore in front of his house under the 'Right to Roam' laws, he protested against that pretty sharpish.

Mr Chips
14th Mar 2014, 21:16
I admired the man and his principles (although I am clearly younger than some and so don't know all that you do)

Such a shame that someone found it necessary to start the thread off with such drivel as
We await the inevitable "champagne socialist" derision therefore by those whose myopia is in the advanced stages.

Like Bob Crow, another who contributed significantly to the benefit of the UK overall.

vulcanised
14th Mar 2014, 21:42
"These things go in threes" is a well known saying.


Please let the third one be Blair !

Shaggy Sheep Driver
14th Mar 2014, 21:49
Blair has a pact with The Devil. He is therefore probably immortal. :mad:

M.Mouse
14th Mar 2014, 22:58
Harold Wilson's Press Secretary was interviewed earlier today on Radio 4. He effectively said that he was barking mad and left only one political legacy - that of being able to renounce a peerage.

I always thought he was an entertaining and rivetting speaker but completely untouched by reality!

Cornish Jack
14th Mar 2014, 23:40
Just finished reading his edited diaries - one from the Concord era and one (more personal) from the Blair period. Quite fascinating and indicative of political naivete in that he said what he meant.
His most admirable trait (for me) was that he hated, with equal intensity, both Hilda Margaret AND Bliar. W C Fields dictum that 'anyone who hates dogs and children can't be all bad' could be nicely paraphrased there. RIP:ok:

cuefaye
15th Mar 2014, 00:21
I went to his One-Man show at the Blackpool theatre a few years back. Very entertaining, and he came across as the nice, tea-drinking, pipe smoking chap that you'd like to have as your local MP.


In essence, he was unbalanced, with a crazy streak, and thank goodness he never held a high office in Government. Had he done so, God knows what lasting damage would've been done.


Not good riddance, but no eulogy.

Davaar
15th Mar 2014, 02:18
I was not a great admirer of Mr Benn. I believe, though, he did fly the Spitfire against the common enemy, so there must have been some good deep in a leftie soul.

I do remember the many articles about him in "The Spectator", from the pen of the late Auberon Waugh. Mr Waugh wrote of "Wedgetech Benwood", "Techwood Benwedge", "Wedgeben Techwood", "Benwood
Techwedge", and so on.

The great man was at the time Minister of Technology, and the articles all seemed funny to me.

Oh?!! OK, then! Maybe not to everyone.

Wingswinger
15th Mar 2014, 09:13
God, I miss Auberon Waugh. And Michael Wharton aka Peter Simple. Masters of satire.

UniFoxOs
15th Mar 2014, 10:36
I, like so many others, voted to stay in the EEC for no other reason than Benn was against it.

If he knew how much we detested him then maybe that's what he wanted.

Anyway he is now sneering at us from beyond the grave, in his video demonstrating his usual "lying while trying to look sincere" face.

ONE GREEN AND HOPING
15th Mar 2014, 14:53
I don't remember ever listening in depth to his altruistic principles, but if he had some it will have been a refreshing exception to the all pervading general atmosphere of appeasement that seems to linger around UK politicians and in just about every level of public life. Eats away like battery acid at any civilised society.

wings folded
15th Mar 2014, 15:46
Going back to the referendem to remain in th EEC in 1975. Tony Benn was adamant that the UK should pull out in defiance of Harold Wilson's government's policy and he campaigned actively against that policy.
I, like so many others, voted to stay in the EEC for no other reason than Benn was against it.

One has to fall on ones knees in the face of such sophistication of political analysis and exercise of one's democratic right.



All the lefty hypocrites who are saying he was so great should reveal why he didn't achieve high office.


He perhaps lacked the Machiavellian streak to achieve the highest office, but he did hold ministerial posts, whilst being a bit of a nuisance to his party because of his principle led views. His greatness could be that he did not trade principles for power nor position.


There is a tedious hackneyed theme emanating from those who dislike left wing policies, which consists of qualifying anybody with a left wing view as a hypocrite (pinko hypocryte, leftie hypocryte and so forth) especially if the person in question has a comfortable living.
Now, what do you want?
Would it suit your purpose if all holders of left wing views gave away all their assets, and therefore became dependant on welfare? They would perhaps no longer be "hypocrites", but they would then be benefit scroungers, another caste disliked by many here.

Wingswinger
16th Mar 2014, 00:38
Here's a rationale: It's that we all know where full-blooded socialism would lead. It would lead to economic and social stagnation with no possibility for anyone born at the bottom of the heap to better themselves or the lives of their family and descendants. We would all live in a state-allocated house, wear state-approved clothing, read state-approved books, watch state-approved films and amuse ourselves in state-approved activities when we were not fulfilling state-determined production targets. We'd probably be a little bit hungry too.

People like the late Viscount Stansgate would happily wish that on us all while continuing to have a privileged life themselves.

Will that do?

cavortingcheetah
16th Mar 2014, 08:18
So it was only a tiny titular renunciation then, for as far as Benn knew when he made it, he did but break one generational gap, kept the boodle and passed the title on. There's an element of rich hypocrisy and public righteousness extortion in that.
Tony Benn's son inherits title his father gave up | Politics | The Observer (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/mar/16/tony-benn-title-father)

Krystal n chips
27th Dec 2014, 12:37
And, yes, before anyone mentions it, why, given his track record, would I particularly believe Mr Gordievsky

Possibly, Basil old chap, because he's likely to be far more factual than your quoted source....;)

Dr Jekyll
28th Dec 2014, 23:20
He perhaps lacked the Machiavellian streak to achieve the highest office,

On the contrary, he had the Machiavellian streak but overestimated the extent to which Machiavellian intrigue can help in getting to number 10.

Everything he said and did was designed to build a power base among the hard left irrespective of how deranged it looked to everyone else. During the 91 Gulf War he was the one insisting that call up papers for widespread conscription were already being printed. He was constantly on TV talking about how his views were suppressed by the media. I knew someone who was part of a TV crew who asked if they could film him addressing his supporters, he agreed but said they had to stop filming and recording after a certain point. They filmed the start of the speech, then packed away their equipment as agreed only for TB to say 'you see the blatant bias of the media, they only filmed part of my speech.'

As Ken Livingstone found, you can be as devious as you like about seeking publicity and manipulating procedures, but if the party mainstream let alone the public don't trust you, there is a limit to how far you can get.

finfly1
29th Dec 2014, 04:08
Tony Benn. Didn't he sing " I left my hear"?

Blacksheep
29th Dec 2014, 08:30
one who could truly be described as charismatic and principledVery true. The problem is that he was a fully committed utopian socialist. There's no point in being working class if there's no work - and Utopia does not work.

Ancient Observer
29th Dec 2014, 15:18
Viscount Stansgate got and kept his loot.

For all politicians, follow the money. They all die rich.

Is there a Democrat in the USA who is not a millionaire several times over?

Is there a poli in the UK - Labor or Tory who did not read PPE? - For those not blessed with insight in to UK education, PPE is
1. Extremely expensive
2. Extremely elitist
3. For rich people only.

Dr Jekyll
29th Dec 2014, 16:21
For those not blessed with insight in to UK education, PPE is
1. Extremely expensive
2. Extremely elitist
3. For rich people only.


It's only elitist in the sense that there is a lot of competition for places from other would be dictators and assorted megalomaniacs. It isn't particularly expensive and certainly isn't for rich people only.