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Mudman
11th Mar 2014, 00:13
Hey mods/forum builders, is there anyway you can automatically change the term "black boxes" to "flight data and cockpit voice recorders" automatically in the same manner expletives are altered?

The term, "black box" is a pet peeve of mine and I would like to eradicate its use from the face of the Earth. The boxes are not black and they do have a proper name. In a professional aviation forum defaulting to the correct terminology would be, I suggest, more appropriate.

Just wondering.
Cheers.

alisoncc
11th Mar 2014, 00:44
Sorry to disappoint you Mudman, but I have already submitted a request to the FAA and ARB that all orange boxes be painted black to conform with the media's expectations. Mind you I suspect that my request will be ignored as in all probability the ARB doesn't exist anymore. Am I showing my age?

Lord Spandex Masher
11th Mar 2014, 00:49
Flight recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_recorder#History)

Since the inside of the recorder was pitch black, this may be the origin of the "black box" name, often used as a synonym for a flight recorder.

;)

Dushan
11th Mar 2014, 01:27
I always thought that the term "black box" referred to the fact that data is accumulated in it, but not processed in any way, unless needed much later. Nothing to do with the actual color of the device itself.

Mudman
11th Mar 2014, 01:50
alisonCC

Ah well thanks for trying. I suspect painting them black would actually be easier.

meadowrun
11th Mar 2014, 01:54
It is of course for visibility that they are bright orange. Not like the black flight deck video cameras that pilots don't know about that are actually painted dark grey.

fleigle
11th Mar 2014, 02:20
Everybody knows that the inside of black boxes is pink !!!!!!
:E
f

lomapaseo
11th Mar 2014, 02:36
is the inside of a black box, black, the same way that the inside of a refrigerator is black until you open the door?


I mean who has been inside a black box without first opening it

Solid Rust Twotter
11th Mar 2014, 06:26
Schroedinger's cat?

handsfree
11th Mar 2014, 06:47
"Black box" is a well used term in the scientific and engineering world and has nothing to do with the colour of the equipment. It refers to a device or piece of equipment which can be viewed solely in terms of it's input, ouputs and functionality with no knowledge of it's internal workings.
All you need to know is that the cat contained within the box just gets on the with the job it's employed to do.

Black box - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_box)

Wholigan
11th Mar 2014, 07:34
Oh good. More total rubbish for me to look through this morning. It's a good job I have nothing better to do with my time than read threads that waste a lot of bandwidth. :E

Solid Rust Twotter
11th Mar 2014, 08:13
Just as well it's JB then, Wholi. Imagine the amount of shit you'd have to wade through if it were R&N....:}

B Fraser
11th Mar 2014, 08:16
I thought that was the R&N forum these days Wholi :rolleyes:

Anyways, I understand black boxes are making a comeback. They even have them in helicopters don't you know. Here's something to brighten your day.

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/1010/helicopters-can-do-magic-tricks-helicopter-upskirt-demotivational-poster-1288549719.jpg

Erwin Schroedinger
11th Mar 2014, 08:54
Can't see why black boxes should be a pet peeve. Unless a pet cat is peeved when locked in one. But then, how could one tell if it was peeved? Open the box and it'd cease to be a peeved cat, thereby rendering any conclusion impossible.

The only certainty is that if the cat is black, the combination would become a black cat black box when locked.

Always glad to help. :ok:

Worrals in the wilds
11th Mar 2014, 09:04
Oh good. More total rubbish for me to look through this morning. It's a good job I have nothing better to do with my time than read threads that waste a lot of bandwidth. :E
But doesn't being a Moderator make it all worth while? ;):}
Serously, cheers to all of you, particularly when there's a big incident.

SilsoeSid
11th Mar 2014, 09:45
Hey mods/forum builders, is there anyway you can automatically change the term "black boxes" to "flight data and cockpit voice recorders" automatically in the same manner expletives are altered?

The term, "black box" is a pet peeve of mine and I would like to eradicate its use from the face of the Earth. The boxes are not black and they do have a proper name. In a professional aviation forum defaulting to the correct terminology would be, I suggest, more appropriate.


Hey mods/forum builders, is there anyway you can automatically change the term "pet peeve" to "minor annoyance" automatically in the same manner expletives are altered?

The term, "pet peeve" is a minor annoyance of mine and I would like to eradicate its use from the face of the Earth. The pets are not peeved, and they do have a proper name. In a professional aviation forum defaulting to the correct terminology would be, I suggest, more appropriate.

:p

Wholigan
11th Mar 2014, 09:48
The huge pay scales make everything worth while Worrals.

:E

Solid Rust Twotter
11th Mar 2014, 10:15
Not to mention the hidden forum where we cool kids hang out...:E

KBPsen
11th Mar 2014, 10:24
In a professional aviation forum defaulting to the correct terminology would be, I suggest, more appropriate.First you'd have to find a professional aviation forum...

MagnusP
11th Mar 2014, 10:32
SilsoeSid, I insist that you retract this assertion and provide a written apology in fluent cat.
The pets are not peeved

Milo the Mental Mog is most certainly peeved since his mate got run over last week.

Untrue assertions are a prime bugbear of mine. ;)

Tankertrashnav
11th Mar 2014, 11:06
"Black box" is a well used term in the scientific and engineering world and has nothing to do with the colour of the equipment. It refers to a device or piece of equipment which can be viewed solely in terms of its input, ouputs and functionality with no knowledge of its internal workings.



Quite so, I can distinctly remember being told at nav school that we wouldn't be required to understand the internal workings of the various bits of kit we used, just their function, and that this was the "black box" way of looking at things.

Shame that the only one the media have ever heard of is in fact red, but I think you are on a loser here, Mudman. Journalists are the most conservative people in the world, once they have got hold of a word or phrase they cling onto it. Who, in aviation, since around 1923 has used the phrase "looping the loop" but you'll still read it in the papers!

MagnusP
11th Mar 2014, 11:16
Shame that the only one the media have ever heard of is in fact red

Possibly of the herring variety. Over to Bluey.

Lon More
11th Mar 2014, 12:00
A female friend who hails from the Congo would be most upset about referring to a part of her anatomy as a flight data and cockpit voice recorder

The SSK
11th Mar 2014, 12:37
The Brown Bomber was a black boxer.

Whoops, there goes another little bit of bandwidth

rgbrock1
11th Mar 2014, 12:42
Wholigan orated:

Oh good. More total rubbish for me to look through this morning. It's a good job I have nothing better to do with my time than read threads that waste a lot of bandwidth

Just this one Wholigan? I can point out about 33.5 other threads which would meet the criteria for worthlessness. But, then again, I'm sure you're well aware of that fact!

Wholigan
11th Mar 2014, 13:16
Oh yes! .;)

The SSK
11th Mar 2014, 13:28
Who is using up the bandwidth?

Who Posted? - PPRuNe Forums (http://www.pprune.org/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=535730)

:suspect:

BlueDiamond
11th Mar 2014, 13:30
Possibly of the herring variety. Over to Bluey.
Oh for cod's hake, Magnus ... how would I manage to work a fish pun into a discussion about Flight Data Recorders? Hmmm? It's an interesting debait though ... :E

Cacophonix
11th Mar 2014, 14:26
For those who work in the technology sector, the terms black box, white box and even glass box are standard especially when talking about testing computer systems...

As has been noted, black denotes a system with know inputs and outputs and the rules that define how those inputs and outputs are logically defined and how they my be logically dependent but without any specific knowledge how the system itself actually works. This is essentially functional testing.

White box (also know as glass box or clear box) testing denotes an innate understanding of not only the functionality of the system but also how the electronics and the code therein runs. Basically this testing validates how the system works and not necessarily what it does.

At a time in Cacophonix's dim and distant past he used to write test rigs for braking systems and these types of testing kept him off the streets and gainfully employed. When doing white box testing there was always a certain tension between the hardware and the software guys when things didn't work as they should but that's another story and involves finger pointing and the vagaries of wetware and the strangeness of folk and there's no accounting or empirical testing for that!

It is possible that somewhere out there some of you may be relying on some code that I either wrote or tested. Be afraid, be very afraid! ;)

Caco

Bob Lenahan
11th Mar 2014, 22:34
What is the real color of the black ops? Is it the same as a black op?
Bob.

West Coast
11th Mar 2014, 23:26
I like the term black box

It makes it easy to tell someone who at a minimum has aspired to learn the names of the devices from a journo and non avaition poster who might spout off as an expert.

Not a perfect system, but it tips one off to watch for other misused jargon

llondel
12th Mar 2014, 02:13
The inside of a modern black box is somewhat flashy.

meadowrun
12th Mar 2014, 02:28
Hell, it's just a misnomer. Like The Skunk Works. It doesn't smell THAT bad.

Mudman
12th Mar 2014, 02:47
Good to see that the diversity of the fora fauna is alive and well down here in the jiggly bowels. :) Some interesting points to ponder have been raised. I wasted no time in considering them.

Perhaps these important rectangular collections of mysterious (black) bits and pieces (box) should be personified given the importance of the task they have been assigned. How about, Fred and Ginger? I open the floor to rebuttal or should that be re****al?

arcniz
12th Mar 2014, 03:07
Between them, Tankertrashnav and Cacophonix fairly well have the etymology surrounded... saying in essence that the black-box meme is characterized in terms of the ways its inputs transform its outputs according to a functional specification, without much reference or interest as to how the job is actually done inside.

The practical result or effect of this conceptual approach to product design and manufacturing is that it permits re-implementation of the essential design features of a certain system or product or device built in one technological era with a fully-compatible one built during a later and wiser era with additional functionality, such as higher energy-efficiency and greater reliability and less-expensive components.

The beneficial effects of the black-box paradigm and methodology are numerous:

--replacing worn or outdated components with other ones having equivalent interface functionality but higher performance.

--allowing exact replacement of wear and age-limited components or subsystems to maintain reliability and performance of complex composite systems.

--enabling components and subsystems produced by various different manufacturers in different locations to be interchangeable with one-another.

--allowing older systems to evolve to higher levels of performance or capability while retaining compatibility across multiple generations of product design.

Black boxes most typically are devices incorporating electronic components in a form and manner that performs specific functions in specific ways. This general technology has evolved from its simple origins - about a hundred years ago - when early individual electronic devices, each one fitting into a volume of 1000 cu cm, for example, could perform a valuable function such as amplification or rectification. In the intervening ten decades, the art of electronics has advanced such that a similar volume can contain several hundred trillion functionally equivalent devices, collectively using less power than the original one.

Because early electronic devices dissipated so much power, relative to their size and function, enclosures in which they were packaged typically were painted or anodized on all surfaces to the color black, which provides for the most efficient transfer of heat from inside to outside, so the contents would not fail so rapidly from cooking themselves in the course of normal operation.

The human-brain appears to be some billion-fold more volume-efficient than the "current" 1000 cc electronic example cited above, so another century or so of evolution in electronics likely will allow us to replicate quite much of that or similar higher functionality in what might then come to be called "EARLY-gray-boxes".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Chimp_Brain_in_a_jar.jpg/220px-Chimp_Brain_in_a_jar.jpg

meadowrun
12th Mar 2014, 03:11
Fred Astaire & Ginger Rogers: Let's Face the Music and Dance - YouTube

probes
12th Mar 2014, 09:23
I demand a 'like' and 'highly amusing' thingy to click on for threads. How else can I show I liked it without revealing how stupid I am myself? :E

tony draper
12th Mar 2014, 09:47
The above pick reminds me of that court room story,
Barrister "Are you sure my client's brother was dead at this point"
Doctor "Yes quite sure"
Barrister "How can you be so certain"
Doctor "His brain was in a jar on my desk"
:uhoh:

MagnusP
12th Mar 2014, 09:50
FSL, the story continues:

Lawyer "But could he still have been alive?"
Doctor "Yes, and practicing law somewhere".

cattletruck
12th Mar 2014, 11:59
Ain't this pprune caper just a black box?

Does it live in the cloud with web servers automatically kicking in to handle the extra load, a farm of database servers to optimise the queries, an array of media servers that also offload to Akamai, cache servers to the serve common stuff, etc, etc...

Or is it just a solitary now out-of-date black laptop that the original founder setup beside his desk just for a bit of fun which has since been inherited many times over by new owners and all knowledge on how it works has been lost forever?

Mudman
12th Mar 2014, 13:07
Or is it just a solitary now out-of-date black laptop that the original founder setup beside his desk just for a bit of fun which has since been inherited many times over by new owners and all knowledge on how it works has been lost forever?

Not unlike Stonehenge, which is also not black.

Blacksheep
12th Mar 2014, 13:44
The boxes are not black and they do have a proper name.And they're not even 'boxes' anymore.


http://www.apgavionics.com/images/FA2100%20SSFDR.jpg?osCsid=f7fd0187ada2d95a418ea964fc88dcd7


In the business, we call them SSFDRs and SSCVRs these days.

[Regarding Schroedinger's cat. Scientific investigation by Terry Pratchett revealed there are actually three possible quantum states for the cat - alive, dead and very, very angry.]

airship
12th Mar 2014, 15:02
Muhammad Ali is "the Greatest" of them all...

Dushan
12th Mar 2014, 17:06
Ain't this pprune caper just a black box?

Does it live in the cloud with web servers automatically kicking in to handle the extra load, a farm of database servers to optimise the queries, an array of media servers that also offload to Akamai, cache servers to the serve common stuff, etc, etc...

Or is it just a solitary now out-of-date black laptop that the original founder setup beside his desk just for a bit of fun which has since been inherited many times over by new owners and all knowledge on how it works has been lost forever?

These two words may hold the clue:

"Database Error"

ExSp33db1rd
12th Mar 2014, 21:45
. or, as it was referred to when I were lad: 'A suitable system of pulleys and levers'

and the Auto Pilot is always called "George".