PDA

View Full Version : Stop ritual slaughter of animals says top vet.


superq7
6th Mar 2014, 13:58
I quite agree see link.

End religious slaughter of animals without stunning first, urges top vet - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/meat/10679907/End-religious-slaughter-of-animals-without-stunning-first-urges-top-vet.html)

TBirdFrank
6th Mar 2014, 14:02
Couldn't agree more - but - did anyone catch Five Live earlier.

A lady caller said anyone supporting the practice should be hung upside down and have their throats cut.

The muslim respondent took it on the chin - "Jacob's" comment was "Did that lady say that Jews should be hung upside down"

An interesting card to play!

500N
6th Mar 2014, 14:04
With Halal / Jewish slaughter, does anyone know IF the animal has to bleed to death or can you severe the spine as well ?

Because if they did both at the same time, the animal die almost instantaneously.

Might achieve a suitable medium.

The discussion has been had here in Aus die to the live sheep export trade
and Halal meat places.

aviate1138
6th Mar 2014, 14:07
Simple choice surely? This country dispatches its farm animals for human consumption as humanely as presently possible. Why should some religions based on 2000+ year old Mid Eastern principles insist on their 'right' to repeat the slaughter in this country? Stun first or lose the
capability of selling meat in this country.

OFSO
6th Mar 2014, 14:21
Oh c'mon guys, BE REALISTIC.

Do you really think the Jewish and Muslim lobbies would ever let the UK government ban cruel inhumane slaughter when their religions demand it ?

Would the UK government - with their sense of how important multi-culturalism is in the UK - ever even consider doing this ?

500N
6th Mar 2014, 14:24
No, because the same thing happened here.


Which is why I suggested the above. It works.

Tankertrashnav
6th Mar 2014, 14:56
As someone who has raised cattle on my own property, sent them for local slaughter and then eaten them I feel reasonably entitled to have an opinion on this matter. More so perhaps than the average meat-eater who thinks that meat comes in a shrink-wrapped package at Tescos.

What we are talking about here is the final ten seconds or so of an animal's life - say 36 months in the case of a beef steer. To my mind it is far more important to ensure that the animal is treated humanely during its life, up to including the point at which is driven to slaughter. No point in bleating about Halal/Kosher slaughter if you are going to accept animals being raised in inhumane conditions, and driven for days packed liked sardines to a distant slaughterhouse where they are frequently abused and terrified up to the point when they are stunned.

Until that situation is resolved, no meat eater can think they are occupying some spurious moral high ground just because they oppose Halal/Kosher slaughter.

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 15:07
Agreed, opposition to halal / kosher is just lip-service for some to salve their capitalist consciences. Just a different coloured ribbon for some to wear to show they "care".

500N
6th Mar 2014, 15:09
Tanker

Agree.

Some cattle hate going to slaughter, very reluctant going up the ramp or in knowing full well what is going to happen.

I have killed animals with a knife which is why I said what I said about severing the spine. The last sheep I did went from standing upright with my legs either side to completely limp and dead within one second, solely because the spine (at the neck) was severed. It's hard to get quicker than that.

I don't believe in just cutting the throat because pain can still be felt.

defizr
6th Mar 2014, 15:12
An article in today's Times said that a large proportion of halal killed meat is actually stunned before it's killed whereas no scechita meat is stunned.

Also in the Telegraph

"Most animals killed for halal in Britain are stunned before slaughter but no creatures used for kosher meat are pre-stunned."

End religious slaughter of animals without stunning first, urges top vet - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/meat/10679907/End-religious-slaughter-of-animals-without-stunning-first-urges-top-vet.html)

airship
6th Mar 2014, 15:20
Apparently we human-beings can't even properly "despatch" other human-beings efficiently whether via electrocution or injection of lethal chemicals, the courts having given the final "go-ahead"...:rolleyes:

What is obviously lacking here, are any 1st hand testimonies of those willing and able to relate their own experiences whilst being slaughtered (preferably via both halal and non-halal) and other methods).

Some of my own (made-up) comments:

"I thought the good farmer was transporting us all to a new greener pasture. It was only when we arrived at this big strange smelling building that I sensed something was wrong. I could smell the fear (and the blood) even from outside. Hello, I'm not even 6 months old? Can anyone hear me? I know, everyone together, let's cry for mummy...?!"

"Just spent a few weeks cruisin' (that's how good Ozzie farmers treat their sheep), lookin' forward to coming back to the farm, disembarking at Perth or wherever. But no, we're all being off-loaded and hereded about as if we were Ozzie camels. I go baaabaaa, but the local folks don't understand a word...? Finally, I'm separated from all the others, man-handled roughly and eventually find myself in a small court-yard. The children are friendly, when all of a sudden these grown-ups grabbed me and cut my throat. I'm not sure what was more painful - being let-down by my Ozzie farmer / knowing I'd never set hooves in Oz ever again, blaming the cruise ship operator or something else, as all my blood drained out into the sand..."

"There I was, grazing quietly. When the pack of African wild-dogs suddenly attacked, picking on me. It was only a small pack. It took them over 10 minutes stripping the flesh off my extremities, consuming my internal organs etc. before death finally came. Of course, the endorphines kicked-in well before I lost consciousness. Given the choice, next time I'd prefer it to be a leopard, lioness, or even a cheetah...?!"

"PS. Will human-beings please stop using the manner in which us animals are raised, confined and slaughtered for their own devices (especially when it's only or mainly all about) how you supposedly more-intelligent bi-peds express your own hatreds of other bi-peds...?!" :sad:

"PPS. This is on behalf of all slaughtered animals: When you're all old and infirm, just as we were once young and fit, we sincerely hope that your governments come to your aid. But to be frank, looking at recent measures to curb health-spending and care for the elderly, unless you've close family to count on, you too should wonder about modern bi-peds and what happens when your own productivity and usefulness have long-since peaked. Will you prefer a simple (painless?) quick-ending when someone hangs a DO NOT RESUSCITATE sign at the foot of your hospital bed? DIY? Or a more modern version of the "final solution" as the usual anti-Semites here might have to offer or come up with...?" :(

rgbrock1
6th Mar 2014, 15:35
airship wrote:

Apparently we human-beings can't even properly "despatch" other human-beings efficiently whether via electrocution or injection of lethal chemicals, the courts having given the final "go-ahead"..

I know, isn't it disgusting? Death row inmates who burst into flames because of a faulty electric chair, other inmates who don't die quite readily due to a faulty concoction of chemicals, etc.

Which is why we really should bring back the firing squad. Highly efficient and cost-effective. :ok:

500N
6th Mar 2014, 15:40
Which is why we really should bring back the firing squad. Highly efficient and cost-effective. :ok:

+ 1

.............

Dushan
6th Mar 2014, 15:46
The noose, RGB & 500. Re-usable, which should make the greenies very happy.

airship
6th Mar 2014, 16:50
Following on from rgbrock1 and 500N... :ok:

I can almost imagine the day when Tesco / Waitrose / Sainsbury / Walmart / Carrefour (but maybe not Lidl) all display big signs across their fresh-meat displays reading: "KILL YOUR OWN -20% discount" as opposed to the better-known "PICK YOUR OWN (VEG.)" - "just turn right at the entrance to the car-park, if you don't have your own stunning-devices, sharp knives, meat-cleavers, hack-saws, meat-grinders etc., dont' worry. All these tools are available for hire on-site...?!"

"WARNING: All customers entering the "KILL YOUR OWN" animal-slaughter area enter at their own risk. Please do try to accommodate and understand the feelings of other religious communities and/or minorities sharing the same space. We take no responsibility whatsoever. Apart from using a high-pressure steam cleaner to remove all remains at the end of each day's trading."

That should do it...?! :(

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 17:43
Soylent Green made from real Greens. :E That's the solution, and may mitigate hunger in some of the places in the Third World where it is a serious issue.

Farrell
6th Mar 2014, 17:55
In reply to someone's question about about severing the spinal cord:

The answer is no. The whole idea behind halal slaughter is that the maximum amount of blood needs to be removed from the animal. Therefore, the heart needs to beat out completely.

At least, that is what my Omani colleagues tell me.

RatherBeFlying
6th Mar 2014, 18:34
Perfect for slaughter and execution. There's lots of accidental death among experienced users. A deceased movie star was recently found with the needle still in his arm.

Also excellent for relieving terminal pain.

As for reluctant pharmaceutical manufacturers, there's a large number of artisanal manufacturers eager to produce it:E

fitliker
6th Mar 2014, 19:40
It will be interesting to see how far religious and cultural tolerance will stretch when someone from a country where Slavery is still practiced brings their slaves with them to live in the UK ,EU.


If you accept the multi-cultural crap that all cultures are equal then who are you to tell someone that they cannot bring their slaves with them :)


Sex slaves can be rented at most escort agencies in London, Why not full ownership ?
Or would that would make you a pimp ?

500N
6th Mar 2014, 19:50
Farrell
It was me who asked. Thanks.


Fitliker
" Sex slaves can be rented at most escort agencies in London, Why not full ownership ?"

The same can be done here in Melbourne, although they have decided to clamp down on this multicultural habit of bringing women here solely for the sex trade who are owned by someone.

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 19:54
When it comes to cultural sensitiviies..there's no end to what blind eyes can be turned towards. Be it halal, kosher or female circumcision.

cuefaye
6th Mar 2014, 19:58
I wonder, do people suppress their consciences when tucking into their ruby at the local Indian? :hmm:

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 20:01
"tucking into their ruby"

I am sure that is slang or jargon for something, but can you explain that term to me?

I like Indian food/cuisine, but don't understand what the above refers to.

G-CPTN
6th Mar 2014, 20:16
Ruby Murray (http://www.cockneyrhymingslang.co.uk/slang/ruby_murray).

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 20:33
Thank you, G=CPTN

I wonder, do people suppress their consciences when tucking into their ruby at the local Indian? :hmm:
cuefaye

I'd like to know what conscience bothering feature Indian cuisine offers the average Londoner ... or me ... as regards the topic of this thread. Or maybe, what conscience bothering feature is it that you think should be bothering same?

Caste system?
Purveryors of fish and chips being under subscribed?
Pepper abuse?

A little help with your message? :confused:

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 20:40
Lonewolf, I could be wrong but maybe it was a reference to certain unscrupilous takeaways not obtaining meat via usual means.

In the UK at least "Indian" is a mainly generic term for all things curry-related. Most "Indian" restaurants / takeaways are in fact run by Bangladeshis / kashmiris.

There is a style of cooking also known as B.I.R (British Indian restaurant). It's an anglicised menu offering such treats as Tikka masala and other stuff you'd never find in downtown Cochin. Having been to India a couple of times I have to say - I prefer the BIR stuff!

I ahve a book called "The curry secret". I make up a batch of "base sauce" and with the addition of a few other ingredients can accurately replicate most things on a British Indian takeaways menu.

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 20:42
Thanks!
but maybe it was a reference to certain unscrupilous takeaways not obtaining
meat via usual means.
OK, that ties int othe topic.

(FWIW: as I understand it, Indian cuisine is regional. As with Italian, one size does not fit all!)

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 20:46
(as I understand it, Indian cuisine is regional, as is Italian, and one size does not fit all!)

I'm sure you are aware of the size of India, and all the cuisine variations therein. In Britain they don't seem to be individually recognised though. Much the same as maybe going to a "European restaurant" in Texas and being led to believe the Roast Beef linguine you have been offered is an authentic replication of what an average Romainian would have for scran!

spInY nORmAn
6th Mar 2014, 20:51
airship said:

I can almost imagine the day when Tesco / Waitrose / Sainsbury / Walmart / Carrefour (but maybe not Lidl) all display big signs across their fresh-meat displays reading: "KILL YOUR OWN -20% discount" as opposed to the better-known "PICK YOUR OWN (VEG.)" - "just turn right at the entrance to the car-park, if you don't have your own stunning-devices, sharp knives, meat-cleavers, hack-saws, meat-grinders etc., dont' worry. All these tools are available for hire on-site...?!"

SNL saw this opportunity years ago with "Mel's Char Palace":

TjOaw0LugHU

John Hill
6th Mar 2014, 21:58
When it comes to cultural sensitiviies..there's no end to what blind eyes can be turned towards. Be it halal, kosher or female circumcision.

Why the excepting of male circumcision?

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 22:00
Psst, John, there's already a thread on that. ;) Looks like you are hoist by your own petard, and have bitten on another's troll-bait.

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 22:19
I'm sure you are aware of the size of India, and all the cuisine variations therein. In Britain they don't seem to be individually recognised though. Much the same as maybe going to a "European restaurant" in Texas and being led to believe the Roast Beef linguine you have been offered is an authentic replication of what an average Romainian would have for scran!
What I have found in Texas is that in the big cities, there are some chefs who come from "over there" and give you a shot at close approximations of "over there" styles. However, since one is in the US, I suspect quite a few of the chefs and bistro owners have to adjust for local tastes in order to stay open. ;)

There's a chain of high end restaurants (http://www.fogodechao.com/)that vend Brazillian style meat.
My cousin has been all over South America (he worked for BP for a few decades) and attests to its being a pretty good facsimile of what he got in Brazil.

So, it depends.

Likewise, if you head out for Mexican food in South Texas, the Tex Mex you get here is different from in El Paso, and also different from what you'll get in Santa Fe, New Mexico. (<-- that's where my favorite Mexican style food is served) and will also be different from what you'd get in Central or Southern Mexico.

Back on topic: cabrito (http://blog.mexgrocer.com/cabrito-rules/) done the traditional way is freakin' excellent! :ok:

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 22:20
:D

No trolling from me. Male circumcision is a perfectly acceptable surgical procedure to alleviate certain problems. Pre-emptive circumcision does away with the problems totally. Now I am no medical practioner but - I did have the honour of being able to piss through a pinhead of a hole from my back yard, over the neighbour's roof into their yard..as an 8 year old (I think). I think it took me about maybe a month to stop hurting after I became a roundhead. Much shorter than the 2 years or so of consultants deciding what to do.

con-pilot
6th Mar 2014, 22:24
Back on topic: cabrito done the traditional way is freakin' excellent!

Got that right! :ok:


And Jesus John, do you have to troll in every friggin' thread?

Un-frickin' believable :rolleyes:

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 22:26
Male circumcision to cabrito in the same sentence!! Has to be a record. I've never heard of Cabrito before but had goat in a few places. I just thought it was "meat" of unspecified origin.

Indian cuisine is VERY diverse, as you are no doubt aware. What is on offer in the UK is the equivilent of accepting a McDonalds menu as an authentic descrition of foods available in the USA.

Indian restaurant food in the UK is PRETEND Indian food. It's been concocted to appease our palate. I personally like it - far more than proper Indian food!!

A bit like..pizzas in Italy are actually quite shit after you've had one in New York!

Lonewolf_50
6th Mar 2014, 22:35
ex-Mate: sliding the FGM into a thread about meat seemed a bit sneaky to me ... :cool: we weren't talking about fish.

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 22:47
I think it's past my bedtime!

I bid you goodnight:ok:

con-pilot
6th Mar 2014, 23:02
When on the family farm when they slaughter stock, they are shot in the head, then off to the butchering shed. They have a butcher come in and do the actually work for the cattle. Pigs and chickens they do themsleves.

Which reminds me, we're overdue for a visit to the farm and getting a side of beef. :ok:

ex_matelot
6th Mar 2014, 23:08
Belly pork recipe please con pilot. One that does not require industrial deep fat fryers outside if possible :)

G-CPTN
7th Mar 2014, 00:27
Is it not standard practice in British slaughterhouses to bleed an animal immediately after it has been 'shot' with the humane killer (or is my childhood memory as a butcher's boy failing me?).

I realise that the kosher/halal procedure is to effect the bleeding without the shot or any anaesthetic or electrical stunning.

Meanwhile things aren't necessarily tickety-boo in authorised slaughterhouses:- Animal Aid: The 'Humane Slaughter' Myth (http://www.animalaid.org.uk/h/n/CAMPAIGNS/slaughter/ALL///)

Cacophonix
7th Mar 2014, 00:33
Captain Karg

"We have the earthling, he is screaming, but he is more stupid than the ousmages on our beloved planet. His liver looks perfect, my sire, we will cut it out and eat it with the nectar of Osmosios. The earthlings taste perfect , even the minors of the planetoids will enjoy the fruits of this inferior planet......

"They show some simple brain function but unlike the Deltiods, they are but cattle fodder".

Caco

Worrals in the wilds
7th Mar 2014, 06:03
The noose, RGB & 500. Re-usable, which should make the greenies very happy.

They reused them??:eek: Wouldn't they get really grubby?
I thought there was a new one each time.

Re ethnic meat, a Chinese restaurant here got busted using ibis meat in place of chicken, so it's not exclusively an Indian thing. I also know of one upmarket European restaurant that used to wash the sauce off uneaten pasta remaining on the plates and reuse it in someone else's meal. :yuk:

If you're fussy about food hygiene don't eat in restaurants. :}

Re halal slaughter, I've been told by meat workers that if it's done properly it's fairly painless, as the blood flows so quickly the animal passes out. However, if it's not done properly by a competent person it's a debacle, and that's been a big part of the issue.

Tankertrashnav
7th Mar 2014, 09:15
However, if it's not done properly by a competent person it's a debacle, and that's been a big part of the issue.

Further to my earlier post, exactly the same could be said about conventional methods of slaughter. Undercover filming in slaughterhouses in this country and in mainland Europe have revealed some far from expert practices, as G - CPTN has pointed out,

AtomKraft
7th Mar 2014, 10:42
I'm a meat eater, like most of us.


Its a subject that I try to push to the back of my mind, as, like most of us I'm also an animal lover- pets I mean.


When people say 'meat is murder', they have a point.


There's no way we can claim self defense.


I'm trying to cut down a bit.

MagnusP
7th Mar 2014, 10:48
Sorry; can't quite agree there, AtomKraft.
BBC News - Stag gore victim 'lucky to be alive' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26364631)

I'm eating as much venison as I can. In self-defence. ;)

cuefaye
7th Mar 2014, 10:49
Lonewolf, sorry for my tardiness; and just to expand a little on what G-CPTN and matelot said ------


People from the the East end of London are referred to as Cockneys, and they are known (among other things!) for using Cockney Rhyming slang - replacing a common word with a rhyming phrase of two or three words. For example, Bees and Honey = money, Adam and Eve = believe. Now, there once was a popular singer in UK called Ruby Murray, which equals curry in rhyming slang: so going for a ruby, is going for a curry. If you see what I mean!


As for the conscience thing. Lots of UK curry outlets, of either Indian/Bangladesh persuasion, are supplied with Halal lamb and chicken. There are many where I live, and a farm for that purpose is located nearby. I've never known this being a local issue.


And yet, a guest of mine at a home curry dinner last week asked for assurance that I hadn't used halal meat, otherwise she couldn't possibly eat it. After I mentioned that she'd eaten the stuff in our local curry-houses for many years, she backed off when I asked her if we'd continue to use them!

AtomKraft
7th Mar 2014, 11:00
Magnus.


Take your point, doesn't really work for gentle critters like Coos or Sheep though.


Was reading a week ago about a Tigress shot in India (some time ago). She had eaten no less than 436 people.
Guess she got a taste for it....

500N
7th Mar 2014, 11:14
Was that the Champawat Tiger shot by Jim Corbett ?
He was a great hunter.

Lions and Tigers are the same, once they get a taste for human flesh or cattle, very hard to get them off it. One reason is because they are often injured. If you liked that story, read the book called The Man Eaters of Tsavo, two lionesses that took a liking to Indian Railway workers !

MagnusP
7th Mar 2014, 11:24
Just joking, AtomKraft, I eat a fair amount of venison in preference to beef as it's tastier and healthier. People do get trampled by cattle, though, and some who put on funny clothes and wave capes at bulls also get perforated. Chickens can give you a nasty peck, too. Self-defence, I tell you.

Solid Rust Twotter
7th Mar 2014, 13:13
Save Africa. Curry a goat.

Lonewolf_50
7th Mar 2014, 15:04
no self defense claim needed. There are food animals available for carnivores and omnivores. It really isn't that complicated. With populations to be supported, mass methods of production are needed to keep supply in acceptable volumes.
Lots of UK curry outlets, of either Indian/Bangladesh persuasion, are supplied with Halal lamb and chicken.
Had no idea, thanks! Learn something new every day.

I'll go home to kiss my Trouble and Strife brimming with newfound knowledge. Yay!

airship
7th Mar 2014, 15:18
Hitherto unpublicised release (thanks to Edward Snowden) of yet another clandestine NSA surveillance in California of US citizens in that state spending a quiet afternoon amongst friends and fellow Marijuana cultivators: Hey bro, what you tryin' to do with the goat man?! Fcuk it man, I thought noone was lookin'? We're gonna be eating that goat later, so don't you go fcuk it up OK?! OK man, how're we gonna kill it? Well first, we're in a closed room. All the fumes will eventually tranquilise it. Just to make sure, we'll light up a few more, make sure the goat gets it full-face OK. Yeah, then what? Then we all take a vote about who goes outside, kills Billy jnr., cooks supper (I'm really hungry, how about anyone else) etc. OK, so who's ready to vote? No, this isn't the state legislature, you can't bring in your own propositions / amendments etc. Awww, what the fcuk?! Someone let Billy out into the yard. An' git on the phone and order in some KFC or Pizza or whatever...?!"

fitliker
7th Mar 2014, 15:20
Unless you are eating at Aberdeen harbour, where one can get SEA GULL curry.


The owner of the curry house claimed that someone had climbed over the glass spiked wall or the barbed wire fence to put the butchered carcasses of sea-gull in his garbage cans. To make it look like they were serving sea-gull instead of chicken.
Good luck finding any stray cats or dogs around that curry house. Always made me wonder what else they were capable of butchering in their highly secure compound in the back.




If you like venison ,you would love Elk. Cook it with just a bit of cinnamon to take away the game taste and it will melt in your mouth.

G-CPTN
7th Mar 2014, 15:25
take away the game taste :confused: . . . . .

MagnusP
7th Mar 2014, 15:34
Saw someone cook moose marinated in coffee, and it looked lovely. Not much call for moose in these parts.

I marinate slabs of pork belly in Coke with garlic, shallot, carrot and sage before slow-braising the pork for 3 or 4 hours before glazing it with the much-reduced marinade.

Tankertrashnav
7th Mar 2014, 16:31
Not much call for moose in these parts.


Especially as you'd need several to make a decent sandwich.

Oh, you mean a moose?

;)

airship
7th Mar 2014, 16:41
I marinate slabs of pork belly in Coke with garlic, shallot, carrot and sage before slow-braising the pork for 3 or 4 hours before glazing it with the much-reduced marinade. What a waste of Coca Cola?! I prefer it very cold and very fizzy, that way the (COČ) gets right up my nostrils and eventually makes me burp...?! :uhoh:

SawMan
8th Mar 2014, 07:47
I quite agree see link.

End religious slaughter of animals without stunning first, urges top vet - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/meat/10679907/End-religious-slaughter-of-animals-without-stunning-first-urges-top-vet.html)

OK then, I will go back to slaughtering humans instead :eek: Being omni-theistic that will give me dozens of times each year where I can enjoy, err, 'practice a religion' like the Inca and Druids once did :E The latter will be tough, beating a virgin to death with a holy stick will involve child abuse these days- older virgins are just SO tough to find these days, but being a religion it should be OK ;) Besides, I'm involved with "PETA"- People Eating Tasty Animals- and stopping this religious slaughter that will leave more of those for my barbecue :D

(If you have to be told this post is in jest, please find another planet to inhabit. Thank You!)

Solid Rust Twotter
8th Mar 2014, 09:15
I marinate slabs of pork belly in Coke with garlic, shallot, carrot and sage before slow-braising the pork for 3 or 4 hours before glazing it with the much-reduced marinade.


Try a shot of soy sauce and some grated ginger in place of the carrot and sage, Mr P. Couple more weeks to go before one can tuck into some decent scran. Not much pork around these parts...