Why No Thread About Profit Share Yet?

[744drv]

Someone has usually started the discussion .... are we getting one? .... how big will it be? ...... why 6000HKD plus X number of weeks? ..... why was the formula changed? ..... how can the company make huge profits and only give us a measly XXXXHKD ..... why do we save fuel etc only to receive an insultingly small PS? ..... who cares about PS, where is our wage increase?

There, whole discussion done for another year :hmm:

[twotigers]

6K & 3 weeks. Which will be a goddamn joke given their profit

[pill]

6k or 3 weeks. The lower of, of course.

[SMOC]

It's to be spent on 20 -8I's :}

[Anotherday]

Got 2 days last time from memory, making 12-15 times that profit this time. Formula was last revised to kick in earlier but reduce as profits increased. Therefore max would be 30, min 24ish days, around 3 weeks (since profit share tapers) from analysts estimates of profits. The more we make the less we get, as a ratio, though the amount still increases.
Rumour of a new formula this year, so who knows.............

[744drv]

The current Profit Share agreement is valid until after the profit share declaration of 2015. So this year would be a good time to start negotiating a new agreement. Given the progress rate between AOA and the company maybe we should have started reviewing it a year or so ago. I recall that in 2011 or 12 that the Annual Results came out without a PS agreement in place, the company saw sense not to use that as an excuse to say "ah well no agreement .... no profit share", I think a mutiny would have ensued.

[AnAmusedReader]

Unfortunately it's not negotiable - never has been. It's company policy, from the goodness of their hearts, in its sole discretion, loaded in their favour, all the usual CX get out caveats.

[swh]

Unfortunately it's not negotiable - never has been. It's company policy, from the goodness of their hearts, in its sole discretion, loaded in their favour, all the usual CX get out caveats.

Everything is negotiable, KA always get 13th month and pilot medicals paid for.

[Border Reiver]

Both 13th month and paid medicals are included in KA contracts. So negotiation not required.

[744drv]

If it is a PS AGREEMENT then some negotiation has taken place at some time

[SMOC]

Orient Aviation March 2014

Hong Kong’s Cathay Pacific Airways is expected to report a robust profit when its announces its full year results for 2013 this month. Analysts predict the airline could more than double the HK$916 million (US$118.2 million) profit of 2012. The positive predictions follow a period of healthy business class travel in the fiscal fourth quarter and higher yields from its premium economy class, which is now being extended from long haul routes to regional services. The airline group is helped by the fact that China and its fast growing millions of wealthy consumers are ambitious and status conscious when it comes to their airline of choice. Cathay Pacific is the right fit for this group, with its emphasis on prestigious premium service, luxurious lounges and a partner, in flag carrier, Air China (29.99%) that sends a lot of customers its way. This month, the airline launches its fifth service to New York, this time to Newark. In coming months it will increase frequencies to Australia, Chicago and Los Angeles and build its code share agreements. Cargo, however, remains deep in the doldrums – after a short fillip in business late last year and a pick-up in the peak pre-Chinese New Year. The airline still is carrying significant over-capacity in freighters. Last month, Cathay added its 12th U.S. freighter destination, Columbus, Ohio with a twice a week schedule. Earlier in the month, it launched a three times a week freighter service to Mexico City.

[Oval3Holer]

Why no thread? 'Cause we can't afford it!

HK $2,000?

Gimme a break!

[kmagyoyo]

Thats awesome... I owe that in overpaid allowances.

:8

[Frogman1484]

$2000 or half a month if lower.. Who the heck gets paid $4000 per month!!!!

How much did we save with out single engine taxi?

:mad::eek::ugh::{

[The FUB]

How will you spend yours. Mine will go on 300kg of fuel next sector!

[A3301FD]

Just another management slap in the face! :mad:

But we got a good faith bargaining agreement - oh boy. :rolleyes:

No pay increase, no housing issue resolved, education costs in HK rising, crap offering on LON base, no other base offers forthcoming.

But they will TRY to avoid rostering rest periods of 18-30...bollocks! Airbus roster thats all you get! :rolleyes:

Keep taking that 100kgs off for management, keep doing the RETI... :ok:

[Booger]

I was hoping to get a Ruski at escape, looks like i can only get a flippo now.

:D

Tears. Tears of laughter!!

[Arfur Dent]

I should think there's another $39 Million being distributed to a couple of Members of the boardroom too. The payment of $2000 HKD is actually more insulting than not paying anything at all. Such style from our 'Caring' employer.

[dartman748]

You are F..king kidding me! $2,000!?!?! WTF!

[Freehills]

$2000 or half a month if lower.. Who the heck gets paid $4000 per month!!!!

I would guess quite a few groundstaff in India/ China/ Indonesia etc.

[AnAmusedReader]

And the good news from the chairman is:

"...we will need to work harder to rein in costs and increase our overall productivity. This will certainly be one of our main focuses in 2014."

[oriental flyer]

A profit of HK$2,620 million . Yet a miserly HK$ 39 million to be used for profit sharing
I'm glad that I went to work every day, the magnificent HK 2000 bonus makes me feel that it was worth all the effort I put in . All those measures that i took to save fuel, do the right thing , go the extra mile . I really get the impression that the company recognizes my contribution to the bottom line .

the profit share equates to about 1.5% of the overall profit (if my maths is correct ) to be distributed to the staff , with everyone getting the same amount . so a cleaner gets the same as a Captain

So if 1.5% is what I'm valued at, then I guess I will need to re balance my input accordingly in the future

Suddenly I feel very very ill

[Farman Biplane]

I think I'll use mine to pay for my families FOC's....oh hang on, it's not even enough to do that!

[nitpicker330]

Oh my god, nothing surprises me with this mob anymore.

How many of you chaps feel like shutting down Engines during taxy in now!!

What a crock......

[spannersatcx]

It is a typo isn't it!!!! :ugh:

[Captain Dart]

Keep on 'helping out' on those G Days, 'mates'.

[cxorcist]

This BS is just further incentive to call unfit. If anyone is using profit share as a reason to avoid booking off, forget about it.

They can take their $2000HK and shove it up their arse. I'll take my 5 well managed, unfit calls each year. I could care less about HDP, profit share or allowances. My time is worth far more than all of them combined. Unless I have a realistic chance at EFP, there is no disincentive.

Nevertheless, I'm sure all you company men will just take another one on the chin and keep being good soldiers. I honestly don't know what's worse: the way the company disrespects you or the way you disrespect yourselves.

Reduce fuel? YHGTBFKM! Quite the opposite. Why on earth would we help them save money for nothing in return? Who's Putin and who's Obama around here? Pretty simple math, heh?

[etopsmonkey]

Boys and girls, you need to further increase your productivity. What a bitch smack to the face. Ouccch

[crwkunt roll]

Awaiting the AOA letter saying how angry they are.

[Master Caution]

Standing by to be flamed but:

$2.6B profit on 100B turnover is a 2.6% margin. Not something I would consider acceptable on anything I would invest in.

Dividend is 1.4% for shareholders.

2.99 months profit share was paid in 1989 on 20% margin - i.e. 20BN + profit on current turnover.

No excuse for any managers to take anymore than the profit share though.

Back to the pay negotiations - since future years look brighter as this result is with the cargo part of the airline severely underperforming.

[Freehills]

Well. duh. It is a commercial organisation. What companies ever say "screw it, time to sit back and relax"?

[Scoreboard]

Sydneyman ....still wiping the tears away from eyes...best chin up I have seen ever.

As for the 2k you know were that miserly offer is coming out of you management tossers....it will be coming out the expanded fuel bill your pissed off pilots will be giving you

[Shep69]

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:

I'm in the money

I'm in the money

I've got alot of what it takes to get along

I don't get out much.....will 2K get me a decent hooker or is there a co-pay ?

[Sqwak7700]

The reality is that you get paid what you deserve.

So keep helping out boys, keep answering those phones, keep not calling in sick (wtf?), keep using discretion, and keep knocking 50 or 100kgs here and there to help out. Your efforts are truly appreciated. For all those of you that do this, I dedicate this profit share to you.

Frankly, I think 2000 is way too much money. I would have gone with a figure closer to the pay rise we got on Jan 1st. And forget about looking to the AOA for help on this. They sold us out for "good will", which they feel is there.

Looks like they where right!

:ok:

[BusyB]

If all pilots give all their profitshare to the Sunnyside club and ask that all management and Directors do the same it could be an entertaining SCMP story:ok:

[crewsunite]

I'd happily give 50% to Sunnyside if the other half is actually used for something that could make a difference to us aswell.

The other 50% should be used to fund a comprehensive package placement deal with another carrier for a big chunk of our experienced Cadets.

Cx are just taking the piss, these guys cannot plan families and careers.
They are and will continue to use them as porns to erode our conditions, while increasing our productivity at the expense of our families. (Esp considering the inflation in HK)

Is there a said Cpt in Syd C.S. that has a recruitment agency?
Maybe he can help set up bulk package deal.

Any Cadet's willing to start a Wanna be list. I heard there is already a whatsapp list going around?

[Cpt. Underpants]

I hereby pledge my $2000 to Rick Patterson, YVR.

[profitshareless]

Clark Freaks Out - Christmas Vacation (9/10) Movie CLIP (1989) HD - YouTube

Something along these lines

[kenfoggo]

It's quite refreshing that they do not even try to conceal their contempt for their own staff!

[raven11]

I cant even describe how I feel any more? How should I react? Why am I surprised, or even shocked?

Given our efforts this year at fuel saving I guess part of me expected a polite gesture of appreciation....silly me.

[Beta Light]

Sydney man, Chip in for the Ruski, If you cut to much in the wrong department it can bite you ( pun intended )
Just youtube J0y Sl0z@r to see what happen if you cut back to much in the wrong department..

[CXChildLabour]

For all the great work our management team has done to contribute to our 2.6B profit, I hereby support the motion to give them all 6 months bonus! Or 2000HKD, whichever is less.

[broadband circuit]

Well how do the "help 'em out" brigade feel now?


G day workers
Flash mob volunteers (pilots, cabin crew & ground staff)
G day workers
TV commercial volunteers (pilots, cabin crew & ground staff)
G day workers
"A day in the life of a [take your pick: pilot, cabin crew, ground staff]" volunteers
G day workers
RETI nazis
G day workers
"less than CFP" types


please feel free to add to the list!

Each and every one of them has contributed in part to our predicament.

I weep when I face the reality that despite all of the anger, there'll still be people volunteering and helping out tomorrow, next week, next month....

[Scoreboard]

here here Broadband
:) so true

[Yonosoy Marinero]

all eligible CX and KA employees will be awarded profit share for their contribution to the modest success of the two airlines in 2013.

Thank you, oh merciful Lord, for your boundless generosity.
Despite our pitiful laziness, our lack of cooperative efforts in working on our days off, our failure to shut down engines when taxying, our lackluster effort in despatching with bare minimum fuel, our vainglorious refusal to accept a paycut and instead accepting a decadent and undeserved 0% payrise...

Despite this shameless, inconsiderate, undeserving attitude of ours which permitted only a measly, pitiful 200% rise in your deserved earnings, only you, dear Merciful Lord, had the bleeding heart to award us with such generous compensation.

We shall forever be at your debt for such a display of benevolence. Please do not let my angry comrades strain your charitableness for I assure you, my Lord, that I will endeavor from now on to persevere in my efforts to render your cross easier to bear.

No sickness shall prevent me from striving for you.
No day off shall serve as an excuse for my sinful laziness.
No amount of wasteful excess fuel shall find its way in my tanks.

Please accept my repentant apologies.
Yours devotedly.

[Oval3Holer]

Here here?

Are you a British? At least you ought to know how to spell your own antiquated sayings! Let go of the 17th century. The days of the British empire are long gone.

Hear, hear!

Hear, hear vs. here, here - Grammarist (http://grammarist.com/spelling/hear-hear/)

[Pucka]

Can I suggest that all crew send an email to benefits/salaries and demand that the 2000$ be transferred directly to the SSC..?
Nice to know, that in these days of greater risk at the coal face, those of us who create the real revenue by flying the airframes that define the airline, are served such paltry justice. Increasing marginalisation, decreasing recognition of skill and responsibility and that ever increasing distance between flying management and real crew, have all pushed us into a corner that will probably mark the end of airline flying as a once noble career. The variance of risk now has little bearing on reward, other than salary differentials and let's face it, that is now changing significantly for the worse. What risk factors do marketing face??, IT, catering and the gate gods??...so for those of us who have to deal with multiple bird strikes, bad fuel, MTOW engine failures, multiple all eng EGT over temps before 80 knts et al...19 hr duty cycles and all the rest of the BS that goes with this job..maybe now is the time to rethink the real fuel required in that cfp, pra'sand jump seat requests...the same pitiful profit share dictates a similar reaction as our new net worth on that coal face...shame on them.

[monster330]

Very well said Pucka. Very well said.

Bb circuit....couldn't agree more

But they won't learn. Never do.

[Freehills]

Pucka,

I think the days of airline flying as a noble career ended with EU liberalisation. Once Ryanair/ Easyjet etc showed the way to make money in airlines was to pile them high, and sell them cheap, it was only a matter of time before the same came to Asia.

[Glass Half Empty]

Clearly the freighter guys should not get any profit share as they were not trying hard enough.:eek:

[Peebee and Jay]

What a joke and another slap in the face! Good luck with your "ground - line". Hope the passengers enjoy being towed around the tarmac.

[hyg]

Lenovo Group Ltd. (992), the biggest personal computer maker, said Chief Executive Officer Yang Yuanqing will share at least $3 million of his bonus with workers for a second straight year after posting record sales.

About 10,000 workers will get payments this month to recognize their contributions, Gina Qiao, senior vice president of human resources, said in a memo to some workers. The memo was confirmed by spokesman Jeffrey Shafer, who said the total payment will be about $3.25 million.


The average payment of about $325 is almost equal to a month’s pay for a typical city worker in China. The average annual wage of urban workers at private companies last year was 28,752 yuan, the National Bureau of Statistics said in May. That’s equal to about $392 a month.

[Sam Ting Wong]

http://moonboog.com/sites/default/files/large_bridge_river_kwai_blu-ray_2.jpg

[Kitsune]

2,000 Sports Direct staff to receive £100,000 bonus after record profits | Business | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/18/sports-direct-staff-bonus-profits)

[Bob Hawke]

Sports Direct - what utopia. Me thinks our leaders prefer the Macavelli model of business. Intimidation, innuendo, insolence and insult. I'm lovin it! I know my place.

[Pucka]

Free hills..very true..since that clown O'leary got his circus off the ground! we have all been reduced to the Lidle equivalent of the airline world but I would hazard a guess that even a shelf stacker at Tesco gets a better pro raga profit share than we do...

[Kitsune]

Not sure about Tesco, but...

J Sainsbury plc / Sainsbury?s colleagues share in company success with record £90million bonus pot (http://www.j-sainsbury.co.uk/media/latest-stories/2013/20130510-sainsburys-colleagues-share-in-company-success-with-record-gbp-90million-bonus-pot/)

[Kitsune]

Wetherspoon pays staff £14m bonus - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/10697644/Wetherspoon-pays-staff-14m-bonus.html)

[crwkunt roll]

the lack of decent pay and housing for new joinersNobody warned them at all.

How about " the lack of decent experienced new joiners". Not only CX of course.
Only when they've fixed the "give anybody a free ride to an airline job" mentality, can proper benefits be awarded, and the Industry may start to turn around.

[broadband circuit]

How about " the lack of decent experienced new joiners". Not only CX of course.
Only when they've fixed the "give anybody a free ride to an airline job" mentality, can proper benefits be awarded, and the Industry may start to turn around.

Well said there!

[SMOC]

I'll get blasted I'm sure, but seniority is to blame here, it's run it's course and is completely screwing COS, no matter how much **** they kick in your face or shove down your neck, you simply can't leave an airline to join the bottom of a new stack, and as conditions at the bottom also deteriorate, it makes leaving even harder. The guys with no hours are the only ones who must accept the terms to get on the very ladder that will screw them in the future.

When (I hope) these junior guys who have just got their 500-1000hrs leave CX will tweak the pay to make them stay. That is the only time CX will improve COS.

If you leave they will pay! Seniority prevents people leaving and therefore prevents airlines paying.

Yes seniority has small picture advantages but big picture flaws.

Blast away....

[Cpt. Underpants]

Agreed. For the CoS to improve however, will take more than a dribble of resignations. We'll need 20 or 30 to walk in on a Friday afternoon and quit en masse.

Somehow, I just don't think that will ever happen.

[SloppyJoe]

So you think they would have a hard time finding guys to sit in the left seat of a 777 a couple of times a month for US$7000? Seniority works both ways and at CX I think it is more of a benefit than a hinderance. You think they care about your experience or the image you provide to customers. They are filling the cockpits with kids who have no experience.

[SMOC]

Do you really think CX would let anyone sit in the left seat, they struggle to let 12+yr F/Os in their own company sit there, you're dreaming if you think CX /Swire will just give commands away, yes they'll threaten to or drop a rumour here or there and we'll all **** ourselves and bend over like always as we're afraid to leave to guess what? join the bottom of another seniority list.

QED

[broadband circuit]

Do you really think CX would let anyone sit in the left seat

Absolutely not. For all their faults (and there's a long list) the FOPs flying & training managers don't & won't give out commands willy-nilly. In fact, with the inexperience in the cockpit these days the job of a CX captain is getting harder than it was when everyone joined with 5000 hrs.

Now, if you'd asked "Do you really think CX would let anyone sit in the right seat or SO seat", then I'd answer YES. The bean counters don't care - it's all spreadsheets & no responsibility for them. The burden falls on the captain, and it's his/her responsibility to manage these "anyones" in the cockpit, and the captain that suffers the full weight of responsibility when it goes wrong.

[twotigers]

Flight Ops does what the board says.
Full Stop.

If they say hire DEC with low time.. they will.

Some older guys will piss and moan. They will be replaced.

Our only bargaining in mass union action, and we all know our g day working, flash mob bitch*s of pilots won't.

Therefore.. conditions will continue to erode.

Its a simple truth, but one many of you whom only care about yourself will ignore till its too late.

[SloppyJoe]

Seniority at a true legacy carrier where pilots are respected and their skill and experience appreciated would be as you say a hinderance. They would still pay top dollar to attract people who the flying public would want. At a carrier like ours where we are seen as overpaid monkeys it would be a disaster if seniority were done away. CX would become just another sh:mad:ty asian carrier people use as a stepping stone or attracting the bottom of the barrel pilots who are out of options. Management would be happy with this as the planes would still fly. Only a matter of time though before it started costing them, by then it would be too late.

[SMOC]

CX would become just another shty asian carrier people use as a stepping stone or attracting the bottom of the barrel pilots who are out of options.

See the size of the F/Os house in MH370, I'm not sure too many would come to HK to live in a shoebox & CX would get pretty sick of paying for endorsements by pilots using CX as a stepping stone.

I think we're already at the bottom of the barrel!

Police may probe the possibility that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah or his co-pilot downed plane in suicide bid | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/police-may-probe-the-possibility-that-captain-zaharie-ahmad-shah-or-his-copilot-downed-plane-in-suicide-bid/story-fnizu68q-1226856451280)

[twotigers]

@sloppyjoe

WHOLEY WRONG.

In fact Just what MGT whats you to think.

Why is China Southern , Korean ect.. Paying 17K + for Expat Capts then?

We are STUCK in THEIR seniority system.


It works for them not you, buy a clue brother.

[Kitsune]

The great thing about having f all, is that you have f all to lose... when LKS bales, its time to sell up too!

Looming property default in China raises fears of broader crisis - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/china-business/10703990/Looming-property-default-in-China-raises-fears-of-broader-crisis.html)

[A3301FD]

Is it true the DFO is getting a HKD$16M profit share?

[Sqwak7700]

Is it true the DFO is getting a HKD$16M profit share?


Yes. Their profit share is directly proportional to how little they give you. So, it is in their interest to make your slice of the pie smaller, therefore making theirs bigger. They understand that, and act accordingly. Lots in our rank don't, and therefore work G-days, don't use sick time, and bend over backwards.

Unfortunately, until these geniuses come to their senses, the pie portions won't increase in size for us.

:ok:

[propje]

You can all read it in the Annual Report 2013 which will be published on the 2nd of April........

[BusyB]

Directors Bonuses in the Annual report are for the previous year (when we got nothing, not even 2000HKD):confused:

[744drv]

Well it might be trivia .... but I didn't even get the HKD2000. HKD11 short ...... is this due sickness or something?

[SloppyJoe]

Yes will be due to sickness. Mine was about HK$60 short. It just goes to show precisely what your efforts are worth. HK$5.5 a day for going the extra mile, for taking that 100kg of fuel off or for bugging someone for a shortcut who has no interest in it at 3am. For coordinating a climb with another CX aircraft to save 1,000kg. Next time just think, its all for an extra HK$5.5 for that days extra effort. Obviously when you are sick you are putting in no effort what so ever so why should you be entitled to the extra cash, you could go somewhere close on a bus for that, or save up with two days worth of effort and treat yourself to a can of coke.

2 days sick! Thats a poor effort :-)

[744drv]

Sloppy, you are right I will put more effort in next time!!